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  • Joss Whedon Exits 'The Nevers'

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...bos-the-nevers

    25, 2020 by Lesley Goldberg

    Joss Whedon Exits HBO's 'The Nevers'



    The series starring Laura Donnelly remains on track to air in the summer of 2021.

    Joss Whedon's TV return is not going as planned.

    The Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator has departed The Nevers, the sci-fi drama ordered straight to series at HBO that was the prolific writer-director's return to TV following Fox's ill-fated Dollhouse.

    "We have parted ways with Joss Whedon. We remain excited about the future of The Nevers and look forward to its premiere in the summer of 2021," HBO said in a statement to The Hollywood Reporter on Wednesday.

    Picked up straight to series in July 2018 following a bidding war with other outlets including Netflix, Whedon was poised to write, direct, exec produce and serve as showrunner on The Nevers. The series is described as an epic science-fiction drama about a gang of Victorian women who find themselves with unusual abilities, relentless enemies and a mission that might change the world. Longtime Whedon collaborators Jane Espenson and Doug Petrie, who are also writing, and Bernie Caulfield also exec produce.

    Casting on The Nevers has already been completed. The series is headed by Laura Donnelly (Outlander), who plays Amalia True, a "menace to Victorian" society and a reckless, impulsive and emotionally damaged hero who is the leader of the group known as the Orphans. The cast also features Olivia Williams, James Norton, Tom Riley, Ann Skelly, Ben Chaplin, Pip Torrens, Zackary Momoh, Amy Manson, Nick Frost, Rochelle Neil, Eleanor Tomlinson and Denis O'Hare.

    "This year of unprecedented challenges has impacted my life and perspective in ways I could never have imagined, and while developing and producing The Nevers has been a joyful experience, I realize that the level of commitment required moving forward, combined with the physical challenges of making such a huge show during a global pandemic, is more than I can handle without the work beginning to suffer," Whedon said in a statement. "I am genuinely exhausted, and am stepping back to martial my energy towards my own life, which is also at the brink of exciting change. I am deeply proud of the work we have done; I'm grateful to all my extraordinary cast and collaborators, and to HBO for the opportunity to shape yet another strange world. The Nevers is a true labor of love, but after two plus years of labor, love is about all I have to offer. It will never fade."

    When HBO ordered The Nevers in mid-2018, Whedon described the series as "maybe the most ambitious narrative" he's created. The Nevers marked Whedon's return to the small screen and the first show he has created since Fox's Dollhouse. His credits include Firefly, Buffy spinoff Angel and serving as an exec producer on ABC's Marvel drama Agents of SHIELD, which was showrun by his brother, Jed Whedon, and sister-in-law, Maurissa Tancharoen.

    Whedon's decision to exit The Nevers comes as Justice League actor Ray Fisher has accused the Buffy alum of "abusive, unprofessional" behavior on the set of the DC Comics feature film. Producers Warner Bros. - a corporate sibling of HBO - is investigating Fisher's allegations.

    Whedon's departure from The Nevers was first reported by Cinemablend.

    Last edited by BAF; 26-11-20, 02:02 AM.

  • #2
    There's an implication there of course that the accusations and his withdrawal could be connected. It doesn't really give much away from Joss' perspective other than alluding to something personal that is likely to take his focus/energy. I was never overly excited by the sound of the project to be honest. I thought I'd probably give it a go though and that won't change just because Joss has left the building, but it does reduce my enthusiasm a little.

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    • #3
      I hope that his career isn't over, and that he can bounce back from all this.
      My deviantart: http://vampfox.deviantart.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure what to make of it. I don't really believe the exhausted reasoning. HBO is pretty lenient and patient when it comes to creating shows. And COVID basically gave everyone in Hollywood a vacation. The article does seem to suggest he might have been asked to distance himself because of the press surrounding the Fisher thing, but he mentions big changes in his own life, too. Maybe he's got a kid on the way or something.

        Comment


        • Stoney
          Stoney commented
          Editing a comment
          A child was the thing that sprung to mind as an obvious possibility.

      • #5
        I am surprised. There is more to it than they have told us so far. I wonder if JW is simply at a point in his life where he realizes he has no more stories in him to tell. On the other hand he could still be an executive producer even if that were the case.

        I think it's not impossible he actually has a burn out syndrome.

        He didn't stop working when his other kids were underway and nowadays it's the cool thing even for moms - let alone dads - to work with a newborn in a cradle next to them.

        Does anyone know how old his kids are?

        Maybe Nevers didn't turn out the way he envisioned it. I think it sounds intriguing. I was looking forward to watching it.

        ETA: Wouldn't HBO have said anything about how grateful they are and so on if he had really left out of his own account? They just said ?We have parted ways." That does sound as if he has been fired.

        flow
        Last edited by flow; 26-11-20, 08:14 AM.

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        • #6
          Parted ways is a Hollywood euphemism for firing someone. Now Companies don't normally do this before a show has even aired, so if I had to guess they know something is coming out about Joss and are cutting the strings now for damage limitation.

          I wonder what happens with Espenson and Petrie as they were Whedon writers and pretty much came on board because of him ?

          Comment


          • #7
            All caught up

            All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.


            What's said in this post/comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.





            * I f-ing hate cancel culture.

            Joss Whedon arguably deserves more credit for the tremendous success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe than both Kevin Fiege and Robert Downey Jr., etc. do combined. Yet, Joss was shit)ed on because of Black Widow's considering herself a monster because she gave up the ability to have kids to be an assassin and such. And because of things in The Avengers 2 that were almost entirely Fiege and Co.'s fault because Marvel Studios wanted The Avengers 2 to simply be an advertisement for later Marvel movies.

            And yet Agents of SHIELD was kept on the air forever probably mostly as an acknowledgement to Joss for his tremendous contribution to the success of the MCU.

            Then Joss was brought on to try to fix the unfixable Justice League. And yet Joss is somehow entirely faulted for that being a bad movie. And people for the last few years somehow are clamoring for 'The Synder Cut'.


            * Joss Whedon allegedly cheated on his wife. How has such a thing hurt almost anyone else's career in the entertainment industry? Joss was an allegedly mean and demanding director. Is that somehow a bad thing? Who the F is Ray Fisher anyway?

            The Justice League actors were going to lose their jobs unless 'The Synder Cut' is successful; so, it seems some simply decided to 'pile on' Joss to largely promote 'The Synder Cut'.


            * Regarding The Nevers, I assume Joss did the Pilot. And he's the creator. He'll make a ton of money if the show is successful. If Jane Espenson and Douglas Petrie are still involved, it might be good.

            But HBO is at risk of becoming irrelevant and 'going under'.

            Last Week Tonight main 'deep dive' is on YouTube. Much of Real Time with Bill Maher is on YouTube. And Bill's positions are sometimes all over the place lately. HBO has Harley Quinn now. And it has...

            HBO needs CONTENT.


            * Finally, Joss Whedon is rich enough and has enough of a legacy that he doesn't feel the need to deal with all the cancel culture criticism.

            People maybe forget, but there was an actual boycott of BtVS S7 because of Tara Maclay's death. It contributed to up to 1 million fewer viewers for BtVS S7. People were still watching the show for Buffy/Spike and Willow/Tara and now there was only Buffy/Spike left.

            Imagine the backlash to Joss Whedon if cancel culture existed back then. We may not have gotten Firefly and Serenity. We may not have gotten The Avengers. And The Avengers and Iron Man are the only 2 actually 'great' movies of the MCU. And the problems of Dollhouse are mostly due to the limits of Eliza Dushku's acting ability. But Dollhouse is still much better than most other TV shows.

            Joss Whedon is almost singlehandedly responsible for the success of the Writers Strike and thus subsequent Writers Strikes. He changed TV because of the storytelling of the Buffyverse. He almost singlehandedly saved the film industry because of the success of The Avengers.



            *
            Actually, Joss Whedon created S.W.O.R.D. during his run in The Astonishing X-Men (which is still one of the best runs of comics ever). He'll make money from that and I wonder if he'll be more involved with that now. S.W.O.R.D. is essentially the space version of S.H.I.E.L.D. And Disney+ clearly isn't going anywhere.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by MikeB View Post
              All caught up

              All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.


              What's said in this post/comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.





              * I f-ing hate cancel culture.

              Joss Whedon arguably deserves more credit for the tremendous success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe than both Kevin Fiege and Robert Downey Jr., etc. do combined. Yet, Joss was shit)ed on because of Black Widow's considering herself a monster because she gave up the ability to have kids to be an assassin and such. And because of things in The Avengers 2 that were almost entirely Fiege and Co.'s fault because Marvel Studios wanted The Avengers 2 to simply be an advertisement for later Marvel movies.

              And yet Agents of SHIELD was kept on the air forever probably mostly as an acknowledgement to Joss for his tremendous contribution to the success of the MCU.

              Then Joss was brought on to try to fix the unfixable Justice League. And yet Joss is somehow entirely faulted for that being a bad movie. And people for the last few years somehow are clamoring for 'The Synder Cut'.


              * Joss Whedon allegedly cheated on his wife. How has such a thing hurt almost anyone else's career in the entertainment industry? Joss was an allegedly mean and demanding director. Is that somehow a bad thing? Who the F is Ray Fisher anyway?

              The Justice League actors were going to lose their jobs unless 'The Synder Cut' is successful; so, it seems some simply decided to 'pile on' Joss to largely promote 'The Synder Cut'.


              * Regarding The Nevers, I assume Joss did the Pilot. And he's the creator. He'll make a ton of money if the show is successful. If Jane Espenson and Douglas Petrie are still involved, it might be good.

              But HBO is at risk of becoming irrelevant and 'going under'.

              Last Week Tonight main 'deep dive' is on YouTube. Much of Real Time with Bill Maher is on YouTube. And Bill's positions are sometimes all over the place lately. HBO has Harley Quinn now. And it has...

              HBO needs CONTENT.


              * Finally, Joss Whedon is rich enough and has enough of a legacy that he doesn't feel the need to deal with all the cancel culture criticism.

              People maybe forget, but there was an actual boycott of BtVS S7 because of Tara Maclay's death. It contributed to up to 1 million fewer viewers for BtVS S7. People were still watching the show for Buffy/Spike and Willow/Tara and now there was only Buffy/Spike left.

              Imagine the backlash to Joss Whedon if cancel culture existed back then. We may not have gotten Firefly and Serenity. We may not have gotten The Avengers. And The Avengers and Iron Man are the only 2 actually 'great' movies of the MCU. And the problems of Dollhouse are mostly due to the limits of Eliza Dushku's acting ability. But Dollhouse is still much better than most other TV shows.

              Joss Whedon is almost singlehandedly responsible for the success of the Writers Strike and thus subsequent Writers Strikes. He changed TV because of the storytelling of the Buffyverse. He almost singlehandedly saved the film industry because of the success of The Avengers.



              *
              Actually, Joss Whedon created S.W.O.R.D. during his run in The Astonishing X-Men (which is still one of the best runs of comics ever). He'll make money from that and I wonder if he'll be more involved with that now. S.W.O.R.D. is essentially the space version of S.H.I.E.L.D. And Disney+ clearly isn't going anywhere.
              I was watching and online at the time and I can tell you now that is simply not true. You're lying Mike
              I know there were some fans who were upset but they never said they stopped watching because of it and I can guarantee you and anyone else in here there was no boycott or petition to boycott at that time.

              Whedon had a very untouchable levels of popularity at the time. It was only dented after the show ended with what happened with Charisma Carpenter and reported feuds with SMG coming out but even then his popularity weren't given a huge hit. Rightly or wrongly Fans believed that CC ruined his storyline and SMG was known as a diva on set etc.
              Even Ultron failure wasn't seen as his fault How it should've ended said Joss needs a hug .

              HIs reputation didn't get hurt until his Ex wife revelations and publishing his letter about all the actresses throwing themselves at him. That and the Wonder Woman script which was seen as terrible. Then you had FPJ statement about Producers using there positions to take advantage of actresses (and inference of Joss and his wife) which is when it all hit the fan.

              Now I doubt he was fired because of Fisher allegations. If it was HBO would've fired him awhile back . There is something else that we don't yet know about
              Last edited by BtVS fan; 26-11-20, 10:30 AM.

              Comment


              • #9
                The "I'm exhausted" excuse has honestly got pretty tiresome. He said it about BtVS Season 7, he said it about Age of Ultron and now he's saying it about this. If it's true, he simply does not have the stamina or the physical/mental strength to push through in this industry the way his peers do. If it's not true, I honestly find it a pretty unlikable and whiny cop out that has gotten more than a little stale. Either way it's your f*cking job, mate, so just retire already.

                To be honest, I wasn't particularly interested in The Nevers but I would have given it a chance out of curiosity. If you'd asked me a decade ago if I would have been enthusiastic about the premise of this show I probably would have been but nowadays it's just more of the same. I re-read the description of the protagonist and it talks about her being "emotionally damaged" and it just seems like a retread of his characters all over again.

                I am mildly curious to see if Espenson and Petrie will stick with the show. I think that would greatly depend on the real reasons for Whedon's departure and their feelings about it.

                HBO's statement was pretty blunt and cold.

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                • #10
                  I think most of the first season of The Nevers had finshed filming so I do wonder what Joss's credit will be for season 1.I believe Nick Frost recently said that all his scenes were actually directed by Joss.

                  As for this whole situation.It has the air of what just happened with Johnny Depp on Fantastic Beast 3.Although that thing is more out there in that Depp lost that liable case against that paper and the judge actually finding that they believe there is sufficient evidence against Depp.Hence WB asking him to leave the role of Grindelwald and Depp confirming the studio did and agreeing to it publically(he's still getting his full pay due to his pay or play contract and only shot one scene).Mads Mikkelsen is taking over the role.

                  With the Joss thing though,nothings actually been revealed yet specifically on what Joss is accused of other then some vague rumors.

                  Ray Fisher though seems to believe that Joss "leaving" his show is due to the internal investigation going on.

                  Ray Fisher on Twitter:
                  "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of "exiting", "stepping down", or "walking away" to cover for his terrible behavior.

                  WarnerMedia's JL investigation has been in full swing for over 3 weeks now. This is undoubtedly a result of it.

                  A>E" / Twitter
                  Last edited by BAF; 26-11-20, 03:01 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Stoney
                    Stoney commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I hadn't heard that about Depp, I've just looked up a shot of Mikkelsen, he's a good alternate casting choice for visual similarity to how they shot Grindelwald.

                • #11
                  Originally posted by BAF View Post
                  I think most of the first season of The Nevers had finshed filming so I do wonder what Joss's credit will be for season 1.I believe Nick Frost recently said that all his scenes were actually directed by Joss.

                  As for this whole situation.It has the air of what just happened with Johnny Depp on Fantastic Beast 3.Although that thing is more out there in that Depp lost that liable case against that paper and the judge actually finding that they believe there is sufficient evidence against Depp.Hence WB asking him to leave the role of Grindelwald and Depp confirming the studio did and agreeing to it publically(he's still getting his full pay due to his pay or play contract and only shot one scene).Mads Mikkelsen is taking over the role.

                  With the Joss thing though,nothings actually been revealed yet specifically on what Joss is accused of other then some vague rumors.

                  Ray Fisher though seems to believe that Joss "leaving" his show is due to the internal investigation going on.

                  Ray Fisher on Twitter:
                  "I have no intention of allowing Joss Whedon to use the old Hollywood tactic of "exiting", "stepping down", or "walking away" to cover for his terrible behavior.

                  WarnerMedia's JL investigation has been in full swing for over 3 weeks now. This is undoubtedly a result of it.

                  A>E" / Twitter
                  I think it has finished filming, its due out next year. So maybe a bit of post production work but that's pretty much it.

                  vampmogs The Nevers does sound a bit of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen like but with hip dialogue and a rocking attitude etc (insert all clich├ęs) .
                  Both Petrie and Espenson have had mixed bags post BtVS in jmo. He did S2 of Daredevil which I thought the weakest of the 3 (with all the goofy Ninja stuff) while Espenson did Caprica with all the (literal) Video game side quest nonsense that killed interest in that show and got it cancelled

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    I hadn't heard that about Depp, I've just looked up a shot of Mikkelsen, he's a good alternate casting choice for visual similarity to how they shot Grindelwald.
                    Here's a link to the whole Johnny Depp situation.

                    https://variety.com/2020/film/news/j...se-1234824564/

                    Mikkelsen recasting is now being confirmed as of last night.

                    I think it has finished filming, its due out next year. So maybe a bit of post production work but that's pretty much it.
                    That is what i was thinking so I would assume Joss would still get some type of credit for season 1.




                    Comment


                    • Stoney
                      Stoney commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks for the links BAF.

                  • #13
                    vampmogs
                    The "I'm exhausted" excuse has honestly got pretty tiresome. He said it about BtVS Season 7, he said it about Age of Ultron and now he's saying it about this. If it's true, he simply does not have the stamina or the physical/mental strength to push through in this industry the way his peers do. If it's not true, I honestly find it a pretty unlikable and whiny cop out that has gotten more than a little stale. Either way it's your f*cking job, mate, so just retire already.
                    Yeah, but did he ever come up with anything remotely up to his standards after BtVS season 7? Exhaustion might be an excuse because he simply hasn't got it in him anymore. But if he hasn't got it in him anymore it's actually understandable that he would feel exhausted because he has kept on trying for years, albeit with little success. I don't know about his stamina or physical and mental strength but maybe he has simply run out of creative ideas. There are probably plenty of writers and producers who push through in the industry using the same creative idea over and over again for decades. And there are probably others who can come up with inventive new stuff again and again. But if he belongs to neither of those groups I agree that he should consider changing career paths. But maybe that's exactly what he is doing now.

                    flow

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                    • #14
                      Exhaustion was believable in 2003 because he did have 3 shows on at the time. My honest opinion on Buffy is that he just ran out of stories for the characters. I don't think that's insulting or even a critique. It's completely natural. 144 episodes is a lot. If a Faith show had somehow gone ahead, I have little doubt he'd have found the energy. Same with Ripper. And Angel S6. I probably would not have bothered with Nevers. As Vampmogs said, it really sounds another rehash of the same old stories. BTVS mixed with X-Men.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        He probably tried to have sex with a member of the cast again and the producers/lawyers/adults decided to sack him instead of dealing with a potential scandal.

                        Comment


                        • Lostsoul666
                          Lostsoul666 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Source for this, or are you just being a hater?

                      • #16
                        Here's the source Also, I'm not being a hater - I am a hater. Joss Whedon is a sleazy ghoul and I want to see him fail.

                        Comment


                        • #17
                          Hmm...hard to say what's going on here. It's obvious that Whedon isn't leaving with a song in his heart - more like a boot in the butt. Since HBO has invested a tremendous amount of time and money in the show, they're not prepared to back out. But they are spooked enough to let Whedon go - which means there's probably some ongoing issue that is directly affecting the production of the new show or the investigation has turned up something so awful that HBO has to get ahead of the headlines by severing ties immediately.

                          Most likely a combination of the JL investigation and personal problems that have caused Whedon to drop out. Could be something positive like a new relationship, a child, a move to another country, a career change, a conversion - or it could be something more salacious like sex, drugs, bigotry, criminality or immoral behavior.

                          The whole Whedon saga is so depressingly familiar - most people in show business have demons, even those who are incredibly talented. Considering the recent investigations and revelations concerning Whedon, his departure from the show isn't surprising. What is a little disconcerting to me is the reaction across the internet from various entertainment venues making a pretense of pearl-clutching over his behavior as if they haven't seen 1000 times worse daily.

                          I feel like I've said this many times before, but if most people had any idea of what many of their favorite actors, writers, directors do in their spare time or even what they say when they're not on set, they would never watch a movie, read a book or follow a television show again in disgust. Compared to what I've seen and heard, the accusations against Whedon are pretty standard issue a**hole behavior in an industry dominated by people who are literally living out a 21st century absolutist doctrine in the entertainment industry - the Divine Right of Self-Appointed Kings.

                          So all the Whedon condemnation bothers me - not because it isn't justified, but because it's covering up how commonplace abusive behavior is in the industry. ?"Hello," he lied.' is one of the truest statements ever said about Hollywood and Broadway.

                          Not excusing anything that Whedon did or didn't do on the set of a particular movie or show - just saying that it doesn't affect my love for Buffy. If we didn't separate the artist from their work, we'd be hard pressed to find things to enjoy.



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                          • #18
                            Originally posted by a thing of evil View Post
                            Here's the source Also, I'm not being a hater - I am a hater. Joss Whedon is a sleazy ghoul and I want to see him fail.
                            Then why are you here? Joss give us Buffy. How do you enjoy Buffy and hate Joss?

                            Also there's no proof that Joss has done anything wrong. Cheating on your wife is not a crime. People should be taking what his ex-wife says with a grain of salt.
                            My deviantart: http://vampfox.deviantart.com/

                            Comment


                            • #19
                              Originally posted by American Aurora View Post
                              Hmm...hard to say what's going on here. It's obvious that Whedon isn't leaving with a song in his heart - more like a boot in the butt. Since HBO has invested a tremendous amount of time and money in the show, they're not prepared to back out. But they are spooked enough to let Whedon go - which means there's probably some ongoing issue that is directly affecting the production of the new show or the investigation has turned up something so awful that HBO has to get ahead of the headlines by severing ties immediately.

                              Most likely a combination of the JL investigation and personal problems that have caused Whedon to drop out. Could be something positive like a new relationship, a child, a move to another country, a career change, a conversion - or it could be something more salacious like sex, drugs, bigotry, criminality or immoral behavior.

                              The whole Whedon saga is so depressingly familiar - most people in show business have demons, even those who are incredibly talented. Considering the recent investigations and revelations concerning Whedon, his departure from the show isn't surprising. What is a little disconcerting to me is the reaction across the internet from various entertainment venues making a pretense of pearl-clutching over his behavior as if they haven't seen 1000 times worse daily.

                              I feel like I've said this many times before, but if most people had any idea of what many of their favorite actors, writers, directors do in their spare time or even what they say when they're not on set, they would never watch a movie, read a book or follow a television show again in disgust. Compared to what I've seen and heard, the accusations against Whedon are pretty standard issue a**hole behavior in an industry dominated by people who are literally living out a 21st century absolutist doctrine in the entertainment industry - the Divine Right of Self-Appointed Kings.

                              So all the Whedon condemnation bothers me - not because it isn't justified, but because it's covering up how commonplace abusive behavior is in the industry. ?"Hello," he lied.' is one of the truest statements ever said about Hollywood and Broadway.

                              Not excusing anything that Whedon did or didn't do on the set of a particular movie or show - just saying that it doesn't affect my love for Buffy. If we didn't separate the artist from their work, we'd be hard pressed to find things to enjoy.


                              I think Whedon stands out because of the supposed rep as a woman-first feminist. No one likes a hypocrite. If he wasn't someone that went around beating their chest about feminism, I don't think many would care all that much about allegations.

                              I'm skeptical about JL being a factor. They greenlit the show after that and they'd have known about it before they did that if they were worried.

                              Comment


                              • #20
                                You can be a feminist and cheat. If Joss was a woman who cheated on their sufficient other no one would care. But since Joss is a male feminist he's being held to a different standard.
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