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  • #81
    Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

    The Last of Us is, top to bottom, one of the best video games I've ever played. And TLOU 2 is an improvement on it in almost every technical respect - gameplay, audio, graphics, UI - just not plot, which is lesser. Naughty Dog, though, are the kings of AAA narrative experience, and I also highly recommend the Uncharted series.

    I think it's a real shame DNE hasn't used Hannah Telle more, at least. Like, I'm sure there is a role in Twin Mirror or Tell Me Why she would have been suitable for. They owe that woman, frankly.

    I thought BTS was fine, but it's far from perfect. It "does no harm", and it has some interesting and tender moments. I'd have rather it focused on different things in generally. It's worst quality is gameplay, IMO. Also I think it needed more of a genre hook. Like, Life is Strange has a distinct genre hook it wants to play in, and I don't mean the two discussed by the Superposition essay, I mean that
    Spoiler:
    it's a science fiction/modern fantasy story and adopts the tropes of those to frame its character drama within
    . BTS never makes the same commitment, and I get why they didn't choose the same one (despite what hints there are, which ultimately they didn't stick with), but they could have very easily focused on making it more of a
    Spoiler:
    modern crime noir, a detective story if you will, something that could be a Veronica Mars episode, or its own version of Brick. My favorite parts are the ones that treat Chloe as though she's a young initiate into a seedy criminal underworld, because I think that's a compelling and interesting backstory for the character, but it never commits to it.
    I did Uncharted 4 which I really enjoyed (Jedi Fallen Order straight up copied some gameplay from this) but by the ending I felt it was starting to drag a bit. The final Boss fight was a bit meh in terms of gameplay and that whole epilogue with his daughter felt completely unesscary . Plus his brother was a major dick and Nathan should not have forgiven him so easily
    That aside I really liked and thought it was fun.

    Hannah and Max both. Square Enix are idiots in not using both more for sure.

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    • #82
      KingofCretins Bit late but who do would think has handled the games better in thr series Dontnod or Deck 9

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      • #83
        Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
        KingofCretins Bit late but who do would think has handled the games better in thr series Dontnod or Deck 9
        Eh... I mean, there's no simple answer to that. Life is Strange was a perfect storm no pun, and since then two studios have kind of stumbled after that legacy. LIS 2 was a more ambitious technical achievement but really fundamentally misunderstood what the audience got out of the first game in several ways. BTS and True Colors in their own way really embraced trying to evoke the things that the audience loved about the first game, sometimes overbearingly so, but were both fairly mediocre in gameplay and scope.

        I trust Deck Nine to both represent existing beloved characters and invent new ones that audiences will warm to more than Dontnod. I don't really trust Dontnod at all because I still don't think they understand and even resent a little bit how the audience feels about the original, but Dontnod would make the more ambitious plot and gameplay probably.

        In my dreams, the next game in the LIS setting would be a AAA budget project with the cinematic qualities of a Quantic Dream or Naughty Dog game and similar gameplay (although obviously a bit more like Plague Tale: Innocence in practice because I don't need Max as Ellie or Chloe Price as Chloe Fraser).
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        • #84
          Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

          Eh... I mean, there's no simple answer to that. Life is Strange was a perfect storm no pun, and since then two studios have kind of stumbled after that legacy. LIS 2 was a more ambitious technical achievement but really fundamentally misunderstood what the audience got out of the first game in several ways. BTS and True Colors in their own way really embraced trying to evoke the things that the audience loved about the first game, sometimes overbearingly so, but were both fairly mediocre in gameplay and scope.

          I trust Deck Nine to both represent existing beloved characters and invent new ones that audiences will warm to more than Dontnod. I don't really trust Dontnod at all because I still don't think they understand and even resent a little bit how the audience feels about the original, but Dontnod would make the more ambitious plot and gameplay probably.

          In my dreams, the next game in the LIS setting would be a AAA budget project with the cinematic qualities of a Quantic Dream or Naughty Dog game and similar gameplay (although obviously a bit more like Plague Tale: Innocence in practice because I don't need Max as Ellie or Chloe Price as Chloe Fraser).
          I'd be interested in your thoughts on what you think Don'tnod took away from that game as opposed to what the general audience took away
          In fairness it should be said I did read online that LiS 2 wasn't originally an LiS game but that they were pressured (by higher ups at Dontnod or SquareEnix it didnt say) into making it part of the LiS franchise.

          Resent seems a strong word, while I agree that they probably didn't expect Bae to be as popular as Bay would they hate the audience for it ?

          I will say they have been more cowardly when it came to explicitly making Pricefield (D9 avoid it all together but are open with other gay relationships) open and public. They deliberately left it open to interpretation and the Final moment of the Bay end which considering what then happens makes it almost irrelevant.

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          • #85
            Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post

            I'd be interested in your thoughts on what you think Don'tnod took away from that game as opposed to what the general audience took away
            In fairness it should be said I did read online that LiS 2 wasn't originally an LiS game but that they were pressured (by higher ups at Dontnod or SquareEnix it didnt say) into making it part of the LiS franchise.

            Resent seems a strong word, while I agree that they probably didn't expect Bae to be as popular as Bay would they hate the audience for it ?
            I think to Dontnod what the brand represented and why it should have lasting appeal was that it dealt with sensitive subjects in carefully chosen themes... and what actually happened was it primarily drew people into the world and characters. They wanted to be anthological - whether they meant for LIS 2 to be an original IP or not beside the point, but if so it only reinforces the point. LIS 2 does what they set out to do but it didn't set out for what the audience wanted. I compared this once to how the Duffers intended Stranger Things to be an anthology, but they abandoned that plan because they saw how much the audience resonated with those characters and that world and just continued iterating on them. Koch/Barbet never had that sensibility.

            I don't think they resented the BAE player, per se (other than that by implication it means that a good chunk of their audience rejected their intended theme - which I not only reject, but find incoherent to the story they wrote), but certainly resented what they warned of - the attachment to the characters and world.

            You may not know, but there was another reference to LIS in LIS 2. In fact, when you start a play file of LIS 2 the first thing it does is ask you how LIS ended for you. Then, near the end of Episode 1,
            Spoiler:
            your PC, Sean, and a companion find themselves at a coastal highway overlook, contemplating Sean's dire situation. He'll talk about the state of his life as he looks down on the night time scene below him. And the words and images he uses will be determined by whether he's looking down on a quiet, nigh idyllic coastal village named Arcadia Bay, or the mostly abandoned wreck of same. Off to the side, there is a plaque either advertising Arcadia Bay tourism, or commemorating those lost to the Arcadia Bay Storm of Oct 11, 2013. And regardless of which version you're seeing, Sean's companion is going to reach his hand out pointing at the tableau and tell Sean "What is sure is... that's the past. But you can't look back now..."

            That... did not play well with LIS fans, felt like a condescending admonishment for still caring about "that". And the gently rising strains of "Max and Chloe" plucking away on the LIS 2 score briefly didn't soothe it.


            I will say they have been more cowardly when it came to explicitly making Pricefield (D9 avoid it all together but are open with other gay relationships) open and public. They deliberately left it open to interpretation and the Final moment of the Bay end which considering what then happens makes it almost irrelevant.
            Well, it would be a departure anyway. One carefully notes, that there isn't any canonical non-determinant romance in LIS/BTS. Yes, it strains credulity particularly in Chloe and Rachel's case (not that the latter doesn't have fans willing to insist on this distinction), but all the romantic elements are player choice driven in both games, and on its face, Square and both studios seem intent on respecting that player choice in subsequent reference (which isn't quite as complicating as trying to respect player choice about LIS main plot, but still inconvenient). Even in "Wavelengths", some players cling to Steph saying "whatever it was" when she mentioned Chloe and Rachel's relationship as keeping it undetermined if they were a romantic couple.

            In fact, the licensed comic is the first to directly get into romantic attraction being the primary basis for these relationships, and even it acknowledges on its own terms that it's not canon, just "one version of what happened next" in a "multiverse of infinite possibilities".

            I think the best way to establish a Pricefield romance in a canonical story would be a "fix it" story (i.e. one that takes one of the endings and seeks to make it turn out better), but honestly there's an ocean of fanfic that already did it and did it well, even my own WIP is basically that. But doing it that way would at least give an absolutely clear romantic motivation to the proceedings. Between the two studios, Deck Nine is the only that would likely ever even consider it, but we still have to get them to care that Max exists at all before we start dreaming of that.
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            • #86
              BtVS fan I'll be interested to get your thoughts when you finish. Hope you're unspoiled. End of Summer was... emotional
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              • #87
                Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                BtVS fan I'll be interested to get your thoughts when you finish. Hope you're unspoiled. End of Summer was... emotional
                I will. Iv got to the University after meeting his brother at the Dam. Iv loved it so far.

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