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  • #61
    I think the beauty of this show is that while it started out black and white... it's just not anymore. The people for whom I still have the least amount of sympathy are Cersai and Littlefinger. The person for whom I have no sympathy is Joffrey.

    As for Theon... my heart breaks for him every time he is on screen. But I have no trust for him.

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    • #62
      Not sure how it is in the books, but I prefered the Littlefinger from last season when I had the feeling he mastered the games of power and played with the others. He gets his ass wooped a bit too often this season, first he is stupid enough to taunt Cersei with her sexual relation with her brother when she was surrounded by her own guards and now Tyrion uses him for stuff. Not that I'm a huge fan of him, but I like mysterious characters with power and Littlefinger went from such a character to a glorified footboy.

      About the plan of the Greyjoys to take over the north; I can't believe that Robb is that stupid. He just left his own kingdom unprotected with only his young brothers (Where is Rickon anyway? Hiding in the dark with Shaggydog?) to 'rule' it. I understand that Cat is with Robb since Robb needs her knowledge and connections, but it's pretty stupid to leave your own kingdom like that.

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      • #63
        Ok thought son third episode I liked it better than the second one.

        I loved the scene with Arya she is played by a wonderful actress. Loved Tyrion as always and I must say I am starting to like Shae way more. Poor Sansa every time she is on screen my hear breaks for her. And ok, Littlefinger has started to grow on me. Loved loved what?s her name (yeah I suck at remembering names as it is an Thrones has a lot of them) but the wife of Renly she is straightforward and I like that and love the actress.

        The introduction of the female warrior knight was also awesome and I love cahterine she manages to stay calm and I can still feel her mourning ned, she seems like one of the only characters who does that at least to me.

        Theon I don?t know what to make of him. I love his sister though and as for him I just don't trust him but he is in a difficult position and he is interesting to watch and the scene on the beach was beatify shot I must say that theon is not memorable somhow I can?t recall him even being in the first season, but then again whhenver Joffrey is on screen I watch only Joffrey (cause of Jack Gleeson, not cause Joffrey is awesome, now Jack Gleeson he IS awesome) which brings me to my new favourite crachter cersei!

        Yeah I figured that out during that dinner scene, it was so intressting to watch and I love her carachter because she is capable of feeling genuine love towards her children and Jamie but at the same time, in the same scene she is absoultaly horrible to Sansa making me wonder, as I don?t read the books what is it that makes her love and hate and for me that is the mark of a carachter I know I am going to fall in love with and the actress is awesome again lots of awesome actors in GoT as it is.

        One negative thing, and this is not only GoT but it bugs me because of GoT now, I am sorry but what is it with tv and male nudity? I mean I am not advocating more nudity because in general I think there is enough of that, but in GoT we get women naked and in all sorts of poses.. and then there is a sex scene between two guys and they are both covered in either clothes or sheet?!? Why? Now I don?t want to start a whole discussion and open a can of worms but it just bugs me beyond believe that it is normal to have a scene with a naked woman walking out in front of the camera with spots of sperm running from her mouth , or like season 1 episode eight where Littlefinger is teaching two girls how to have sex basically and they are both naked ( I mean I recall a time where naked brests were considerd not common on tv) and then not show a sex scene between two guys with the guys naked. Ok it bugs me I am done now that is the only negative and as I said it is beyond just GoT but the episode was really good looking forward to next week.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mara View Post
          One negative thing, and this is not only GoT but it bugs me because of GoT now, I am sorry but what is it with tv and male nudity? I mean I am not advocating more nudity because in general I think there is enough of that, but in GoT we get women naked and in all sorts of poses.. and then there is a sex scene between two guys and they are both covered in either clothes or sheet?!? Why? Now I don?t want to start a whole discussion and open a can of worms but it just bugs me beyond believe that it is normal to have a scene with a naked woman walking out in front of the camera with spots of sperm running from her mouth , or like season 1 episode eight where Littlefinger is teaching two girls how to have sex basically and they are both naked ( I mean I recall a time where naked brests were considerd not common on tv) and then not show a sex scene between two guys with the guys naked. Ok it bugs me I am done now that is the only negative and as I said it is beyond just GoT but the episode was really good looking forward to next week.
          Yep, it's a sad double standard in TV. Though what I find kind of odd with this show is the way they have sex--i.e. that 98% of it is anal. Is that like, the official way to do it in Westeros in the books, lol? Because I found that a bit much...it was almost humorous in the last episode when Margery suggested Renly do that, I was like, "As if men would do it any other way?" (Okay I did notice a couple scenes so far this season that defy this rule, but still overall...)

          Gratuitous sex and female nudity is the price of being on HBO though, tbh. You get more budget, but also have to include more of that, since they think that is the only reason some people subscribe, apparently. (I do think Showtime is less gratuitous in this category from what I've seen of both channels so far).
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          • #65
            Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
            Yep, it's a sad double standard in TV. Though what I find kind of odd with this show is the way they have sex--i.e. that 98% of it is anal. Is that like, the official way to do it in Westeros in the books, lol? Because I found that a bit much...it was almost humorous in the last episode when Margery suggested Renly do that, I was like, "As if men would do it any other way?" (Okay I did notice a couple scenes so far this season that defy this rule, but still overall...)

            Gratuitous sex and female nudity is the price of being on HBO though, tbh. You get more budget, but also have to include more of that, since they think that is the only reason some people subscribe, apparently. (I do think Showtime is less gratuitous in this category from what I've seen of both channels so far).
            Haha glad I am not the only one who is bothered by the way they have sex on the show and yeah I know that being on HBO, you are practicly required to show a lot of (female) skin but the whole double standart bugs me, especially when right after that scene we get Nathalie Dormer nude again...
            Last edited by Mara; 20-04-12, 02:19 PM.
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            • #66
              Not sure but I suspect that the real issue of the Loras/Renly scene was perhaps some sort of fear for the reactions of homophobe fans. This scene and the one last year with the shaving, did both receive very negative reactions, and in both scenes barely anything was shown. As long the audience is so homophobe that two men kissing already turns them off I can see a network making te decision not to go too far simply because they don't want to lose too many viewers. From what I heard the TV show already goes further than the books with Loras/Renly. We've seen naked men bfore on GoT so it's not because they refuse to show male nudity.

              That said, I don't deny the double standard which is obviously there.


              Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
              Yep, it's a sad double standard in TV. Though what I find kind of odd with this show is the way they have sex--i.e. that 98% of it is anal. Is that like, the official way to do it in Westeros in the books, lol? Because I found that a bit much...it was almost humorous in the last episode when Margery suggested Renly do that, I was like, "As if men would do it any other way?" (Okay I did notice a couple scenes so far this season that defy this rule, but still overall...)
              Perhaps it's because they don't have anticonception in Westeros? I don't know... but it's the best I can come up with.

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              • #67
                I also wander why they make Renly gay in the tv show. In the book Renly is normal man. I never think of him in this way while I didn`t see him in the tv show. When Sanca see him for the first time I thought that they will fall in love with each other.

                IMO the wolves keep the Stark children safe. I have a feeling that Sanza will die because her wolf is dead , too. For example - Arya is alone and unprotected in castel Tivian`s castle / as a servant / because her wolf is not with her , too.

                Spoiler:

                I want to see Daenarys in the iron throne - this throne is for her , she is the only one which has a legal rights on the throne and after her, IMO it has to be John Snow. Yes, he is "unlegal" child, but after all his fater is Regar Targarien.
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                • #68
                  Originally posted by _Buffy_ View Post
                  I also wander why they make Renly gay in the tv show. In the book Renly is normal man. I never think of him in this way while I didn`t see him in the tv show. When Sanca see him for the first time I thought that they will fall in love with each other.
                  Actually that's not quite true. It is not spelled out in the books that Renly and Loras were a couple but there are several hints in the books both to Renly and Loras's homosexuality.

                  Spoilers for books 2 and 3:
                  Spoiler:
                  Don't click if you haven't read the books!
                  Spoiler:
                  For example the grief Loras showed after Renly's death went way beyond the normal grief you would feel for your king, even Jaime picked up on that. The connection between Renly and Loras was also very deep in the books even if it is not spelled out that they had a sexual relationship. Also, it is heavily implied that Loras joined the Kingsguard so that he wouldn't have to get married and father children and that his family is aware of him not being interested in women.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Cori View Post
                    Actually that's not quite true. It is not spelled out in the books that Renly and Loras were a couple but there are several hints in the books both to Renly and Loras's homosexuality.

                    Spoilers for books 2 and 3:
                    Spoiler:
                    Don't click if you haven't read the books!
                    Spoiler:
                    For example the grief Loras showed after Renly's death went way beyond the normal grief you would feel for your king, even Jaime picked up on that. The connection between Renly and Loras was also very deep in the books even if it is not spelled out that they had a sexual relationship. Also, it is heavily implied that Loras joined the Kingsguard so that he wouldn't have to get married and father children and that his family is aware of him not being interested in women.
                    Also, the writer publicly said that he always intended Renly and Loras to be a gay couple. If readers didn't get it it's because they didn't read with enough attention!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
                      Yep, it's a sad double standard in TV. Though what I find kind of odd with this show is the way they have sex--i.e. that 98% of it is anal. Is that like, the official way to do it in Westeros in the books, lol? Because I found that a bit much...it was almost humorous in the last episode when Margery suggested Renly do that, I was like, "As if men would do it any other way?" (Okay I did notice a couple scenes so far this season that defy this rule, but still overall...)

                      Gratuitous sex and female nudity is the price of being on HBO though, tbh. You get more budget, but also have to include more of that, since they think that is the only reason some people subscribe, apparently. (I do think Showtime is less gratuitous in this category from what I've seen of both channels so far).
                      Frankly I feel a little uncomfortable talking about this
                      Spoiler:
                      But I don't think it is anal, I thought it is just from behind. I think Margery's point was it would still be the baby making way, just from behind.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cori View Post
                        Actually that's not quite true. It is not spelled out in the books that Renly and Loras were a couple but there are several hints in the books both to Renly and Loras's homosexuality.

                        Spoilers for books 2 and 3:
                        Spoiler:
                        Don't click if you haven't read the books!
                        Spoiler:
                        For example the grief Loras showed after Renly's death went way beyond the normal grief you would feel for your king, even Jaime picked up on that. The connection between Renly and Loras was also very deep in the books even if it is not spelled out that they had a sexual relationship. Also, it is heavily implied that Loras joined the Kingsguard so that he wouldn't have to get married and father children and that his family is aware of him not being interested in women.
                        I also see the hints in the books, but I wasn`t sure untill I didn`t watch the show. In the show it is directly and with no doubt. I just can`t figure why the writer didn`t say it directly in the book. Or may be it is the idea - to be half hidden.
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                        • #72
                          Well that was the weirdest and scariest birth scene ever, WTH was that black thing?

                          It was a very disturbing and gore episode anyway, from Joffrey's psycho treatment of the prostitute to the horrible place where Arya is stuck now with the torture and heads on pikes.

                          I'm glad Dany and her people are out of the dessert, I hope her story goes anywhere now. Not sure what to make of the Thirteen, but the city looks lovely.

                          My guess is that the female doctor/nurse is going to be Robb's love interest? She was also right about Robb's lack of plans.

                          Stannis vs. Renly... I put my money on Stannis I'm afraid, especially because Mellisandre is obviously powerful. I love Davos, he is fabulous.

                          And poor Sansa, she is lucky Tyrion is around. Not sure what his plans are exactly, but he doesn't torment the poor girl. I guess I know too little about being a lady, because I would've been out of there the moment Tyrion asked if she wanted to end the engagement. Joffrey is truly a mad king v2.0.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Nina View Post
                            Well that was the weirdest and scariest birth scene ever, WTH was that black thing?
                            It was a shadow servant - a magical being conceived by Melisandre & Stannis. Melisandre talks about them right before she gives birth. How the shadows are the servants of light and the children of fire.

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                            • #74
                              So it's an entity? It can think and do stuff? Impressive.

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                              • #75
                                This shadow is "compelled" by Melisandre to do the "dirty job" so to say.
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                                • #76
                                  Ok so I love this episode so much that I am actually making comments as I re watch it.

                                  So I will admit I am shallow I love shipping, hate the shipping wars that come with it, but I find when there is a couple on a tv show I am either rooting for or enjoy watching then the show for me gets even better so I am really happy with Robb and the nurse-doctor lady I really enjoyed there scene and well if they become more then you won?t hear me complaining.

                                  OMG Sansa! Now this is the moment where I truly started to love her instead of just feeling really bad for her she has grown so much and it seems she knows what she is doing better then she did in season one and even the first episodes of this season. I first thought that her fake loyalty to Joffrey comes from fearing him but now I think she has a survival strategy and the fake loyalty might well be part of her own thoughts and plans I love that she is growing layers always a good thing.

                                  On to Joffrey, my love for Jack Gleeson continues because man you have to be a hell of an actor to pull off scenes like that and not let it get to you which I hope he doesn?t there is real talent there as far as I am concerned. He reminds me a bit of Heath Ledger playing the Joker, although Heath Ledger is of course in a different league actor wise but still. I am soo bad at getting my point across.

                                  Now about Joffrey himself this I the moment for me when he went form just pathetic and stupid to downright scary. Because there apparently is a need in him to see violence even when he is in private and he enjoys it on a very sick level. He is not just cruel and stupid as I thought the scene with the prostitutes proves to me at least, that he is really really sick combined with a real need to prove himself that is dangerous. He scared me in that scene but that?s good makes the show worth the watch.

                                  Ok moving on to one of the highlights of this episode, Littlefinger and Catherine, I find myself enjoy both of these characters more and more this season while I didn't really care for them last season. To me it came as a shock that Littlefinger was or is in love with Catherine, I must have missed it last season can?t remember if there was any mention of that. But I loved there scene.

                                  Tyrion not much to say about that either then what I said in previous posts he is love, his interactions with Sansa and his scene with the cousin guy loved them. On that notion can Cersei sleep with people who are not her family? I mean come on, I can get my mind around the Jamie thing, seeing as how Jamie seems to really care for her. But you want to go sleep with other men pick someone who is not related for God?s sake!

                                  Yey for Dany being out of the desert. the city does look beautiful and I hope her story can go somewhere now. I don?t know why but the whole scene really reminded me of the Bible. It was like Pirince of Egypt and Jesus Christ Superstar wrapped in one, all with the desert and the fat dude and the gates opening to reveal a beautiful city. I am weird I know.

                                  Then the Renly versus the other guy thing, I have to agree with Nina here, I think team Mallisandre has a better chance of winning. But I am kind of hoping too that it just won?t go that far. Too many great characters too potentially loose that I would like to have a round for a while.

                                  Oh forgot, Arya I feel for her, I hope that she makes it too place where they don?t chop off heads for now reason soon. Oh and no Jon in this episode, I was expecting him to appear at some point but alas.

                                  And then the last scene, hell must have frozen over because I finally like a Dutch actress go Carice van Houten go. I have to admit I like gore and horror executed the way it was in this scene it was to me less disturbing then a lot of other scenes in this episode, I would rather watch that scene then for example the scene at the beginning with the chopping off of the leg.. jugh. So yeah it was in my opinion really well done and well the guy wanted a son right now he has one..
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                                  • #77
                                    I was disappointed of episode 4. If I didn`t read the book may be I would like it. But now I am disappointed because many things were changed.
                                    Spoiler:
                                    For example- Lord Belish left The Capital after Renly's death, Melisandre kills Renly first with the shadow, then the lord of the castle on the hill, Arya becomes a personal servent of the new lord which conquer the Tivian`s castle. He was grateful to her, because she helps him to let out of dungeon his people, the people of the north.When I read this chapter I was even surprised that Arya didn`t told him who she is.

                                    Tirion is so in character . I start to like him more and more . And I miss John Snow, too.
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                                    • #78
                                      Definitely a disturbing episode! I think the Joffrey scene was a bit exploitative and gratuitous--though I certainly hope nobody would argue that he treats women well now! I enjoyed most of it though, especially getting to see Dany again (after missing her last week) and more importantly, see her story move forward--the starving in the desert thing was getting a bit old.

                                      I'm a bit confused about the whole Lord of Light thing, so in this verse, there are basically multiple gods that can imbue their followers with actual powers? I feel like magic has been pretty absent from this world in the series so far, aside from perhaps Bran's visions and the White Walkers. In any case, that final scene was the most WTF thing ever!

                                      Originally posted by galathea View Post
                                      It was a shadow servant - a magical being conceived by Melisandre & Stannis. Melisandre talks about them right before she gives birth. How the shadows are the servants of light and the children of fire.
                                      Okay so it was a result of Stannis sleeping with her? I was wondering about that...and did he know what was going to happen? I was confused about what he was exactly ordering Davos to do...
                                      Promise that you'll return to me.

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                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
                                        I think the Joffrey scene was a bit exploitative and gratuitous--though I certainly hope nobody would argue that he treats women well now!
                                        Yeah, I don't think we need any more proof that Joffrey is a sadistic monster. However, I think that scene was mostly about Joffrey striking back at Tyrion for his behaviour earlier. It's well known that Tyrion loves his whores, so by torturing them, Joffrey sent a clear message to his uncle. Instead of showing Joffrey torturing Ros and her companion though, it would have been way more interesting to just show Tyrion's reaction to Joffrey's 'message'.

                                        Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
                                        I enjoyed most of it though, especially getting to see Dany again (after missing her last week) and more importantly, see her story move forward--the starving in the desert thing was getting a bit old.
                                        As far as I understand it, Dany doesn't really have many chapters in the 2nd book, so unless the producers bring parts of her plot from the third book forward, she won't get much story.

                                        Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
                                        I'm a bit confused about the whole Lord of Light thing, so in this verse, there are basically multiple gods that can imbue their followers with actual powers?
                                        We are certainly dealing with a multi-religion universe - the old gods of the north, the seven gods of the south, the drowned god of the iron islands etc - and it is stated that Melisandre comes from a foreign continent, so her religion is foreign to Westeros. I think it's not clear if Melisandre is actually imbued with the powers of her god or if she is simply a witch - like the witch that 'helped' Dany - or a supernatural being in her own right - like Dany for example, whose invulnerability to fire could also be seen as magic. I am not sure if the books take a definitiv stance on this issue.

                                        Originally posted by sherrilina View Post
                                        Okay so it was a result of Stannis sleeping with her? I was wondering about that...and did he know what was going to happen? I was confused about what he was exactly ordering Davos to do...
                                        Yes, the shadow servant was created by Melisandre and Stannis' coupling. I guess it's fair to say that Stannis knew what Melisandre was about to do when he ordered Davos to bring her to the caves.
                                        Last edited by galathea; 26-04-12, 11:35 PM.

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                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by _Buffy_ View Post
                                          I was disappointed of episode 4. If I didn`t read the book may be I would like it. But now I am disappointed because many things were changed.
                                          Spoiler:
                                          For example- Lord Belish left The Capital after Renly's death, Melisandre kills Renly first with the shadow, then the lord of the castle on the hill, Arya becomes a personal servent of the new lord which conquer the Tivian`s castle. He was grateful to her, because she helps him to let out of dungeon his people, the people of the north.When I read this chapter I was even surprised that Arya didn`t told him who she is.

                                          Tirion is so in character . I start to like him more and more . And I miss John Snow, too.
                                          I don't think all that many things were changed- just the order of some things. I'm fairly confident that the next episode will contain
                                          Spoiler:
                                          Renly's death, and Arya will become a servant.

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