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2020 U.S. Presidential Election Thread

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  • #81
    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




    EDIT: Or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez can be made the EPA head.

    And the race isn't over. It seems US Senator Bernard Sanders is finally taking VP Biden seriously and is 'going negative'. END OF EDIT.




    KingofCretins



    * I don't want a violent revolution happening in the United States. I was concerned in 2007-8 A.D. Let's just say certain things were made bulletproof. People are not okay with the income and wealth inequality now.


    The Democratic Establishment was for Hillary Clinton in 2008 A.D. US Senator Barack Obama had to forcefully shame the Superdelegates into backing him instead of Clinton.



    * I didn't say voter turnout hasn't been disappointing for the Sanders campaign. I said that like in 2016 A.D., old people and the black primary voters are giving the nomination to a weak candidate.

    I said turnout is going to be an issue if Biden is the nominee and he doesn't garner excitement among the non-older black vote and non-older White vote.

    The Affordable Care Act alone made Medicare For All popular. I've actually always considered 'a public option' would make Medicare For All almost guaranteed within a few years. But some form of the Green New Deal needs to happen. College needs to be more affordable at least for those studying stuff that 'makes money' and is good for the economy. I've never been anti-billionaire. And Biden will raise taxes on rich people.

    I also never agreed with the sentiment that Biden is 'another Hillary". Hillary was/is very disliked. Biden's a likable guy. Biden and Bernie have always polled best against Trump. Biden simply won't bring the United States 'to the left' as much as Sanders would.

    So, I don't know. Biden would be better than Trump and better than Bloomberg. Biden has flaws. But I hope he makes a good VP pick--one who will appeal to Latinos and Hispanics. And he can put Amy Klobuchar as US Attorney General. Maybe put Elizabeth Warren as US Treasury Secretary. And Sanders can 'round up' votes in the US Senate.

    And then 2024 A.D. happens.



    * There's no guarantee that US President Trump will willingly leave Office even if he loses the 2020 Election. He's already trying to act like a dictator and/or King.


    * The Progressive movement had a bad night on Super Tuesday. I'm still waiting for the Jessica Cisneros race.


    * I'll also say that there's nothing wrong with PACs and SuperPACs. Most voters are ill-informed and advertising and campaign spending helps. Donald Trump got billions in free media that Hillary Clinton didn't. The US House of Representatives was flipped in 2010 A.D. because US President Barack Obama openly was anti-SuperPAC. Oops.

    I hope Mayor Bloomberg does give the Democratic nominee $1B to defeat US President Donald Trump. I hope a bunch of the Democratic rich and wealthy spend to defeat Republicans.
    Last edited by MikeB; 04-03-20, 03:06 PM.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by MikeB View Post
      All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.

      * I actually don't want a violent revolution happening in the United States. I was concerned in 2007-8 A.D.
      I'm really unclear on what context in which you envision this coming up. There will never be an equivalent to the October Revolution or the Cuban Revolution in this country if that's what you are speculating - it would get absolutely smoked and not even by the government.

      * I didn't say voter turnout hasn't been disappointing for the Sanders campaign. I said that like in 2016 A.D., old people and the black primary voters are giving the nomination to a weak candidate.
      I guess my point is, are they the "weak" candidates if they are the one that appeals to the most reliable and effective voter strongholds?

      And then 2024 A.D. happens.
      Bro, she won't even make it past Super Tuesday. I honestly don't even think she runs unless she's already burnt her bridges in the DNC, because her next path forward should, if anything, be trying to oust Gillebrand (she'll get crushed by Schumer) or to replace Cuomo as Governor.

      * There's no guarantee that US President Trump will willingly leave Office even if he loses the 2020 Election.
      There is absolutely no credible basis for this concern. I'm more paranoid about this sort of thing than most people, and have kinda held my breath during the transition window of every outgoing administration, D and R, since I've been grown enough to care. I'm certainly nor more worried about it with Trump, and probably am less. I'm sure he's looking forward to whatever over the top spectacle he can make out of his library.

      * The Progressive movement had a bad night on Super Tuesday. I'm still waiting for the Jessica Cisneros race
      .

      This has been called for Cuellar everywhere I've looked. The clout isn't really there, it's a trick of the light.

      * I'll also say that there's nothing wrong with PACs and SuperPACs. Most voters are ill-informed and advertising and campaign spending helps. Donald Trump got billions in free media that Hillary Clinton didn't. The US House of Representatives was flipped in 2010 A.D. because US President Barack Obama openly was anti-SuperPAC. Oops.

      I hope Mayor Bloomberg does give the Democratic nominee $1B to defeat US President Donald Trump. I hope a bunch of the Democratic rich and wealthy spend to defeat Republicans.
      I'm pretty much open season on political spending as long as platforms aren't trying to cherry pick whose money they'll take. "Let them fight" as the meme goes.
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      • #83
        Well, even in tumultuous times, things go along - Bernie Sanders has suspended his campaign and, just as it appeared from the outset, Joe Biden is the presumptive Democrat nominee.
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        • #84
          Well, I have no idea if Biden will stand a chance against Trump but I am sure Sanders wouldn't have. So, maybe it's for the best.

          flow

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          • #85
            Originally posted by flow View Post
            Well, I have no idea if Biden will stand a chance against Trump but I am sure Sanders wouldn't have. So, maybe it's for the best.

            flow
            The exact opposite is true:

            Biden will be crushed by Trump in the debates: Trump
            be may be incoherent and stupid, but there is a logic
            of attack in what he says, while Biden's debate performance
            thus far has shown his tendency to wander into
            senselessness of a very different kind...

            Sanders would have been able to take Trump to pieces,
            which would have provoked Trump to refuse to debate
            him, a thing his base would have supported...

            Biden, meanwhile, will fail to appeal to the left, fail to
            draw many Sanders supporters to the polls, just as
            Clinton failed, especially as he is unlikely to choose a
            VP candidate who leans in that direction-

            I despise Biden, but I will hold my nose and vote for
            him, just as I did for Clinton, knowing the alternative...

            I fear, however, that many others, even knowing the
            cost, will not, for Biden is far too tone deaf to seek
            out their votes, to speak to their concerns, their
            desire for real change:

            He is, in the end, in the pocket of Wall Street and
            Big Pharma, serves the ends of neo-liberalism
            and global capital-

            That means he is better than Trump, who is a deeply
            evil narcissist, but that does not mean that he is
            a force for the good-


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            • #86
              Sanders would have been able to take Trump to pieces,
              which would have provoked Trump to refuse to debate
              him, a thing his base would have supported...
              I think it is one option that Trump would have refused to debate with Sanders for whatever reason. That would have left Sanders without the opportunity to do what he is best at and it wouldn't have harmed Trump in any way. The other option is that Trump would have debated with Sanders and would have just repeated over and over "Your nasty...I am great...I am doing a great job....you are a liar....everyone else except me is a liar...I am great...god loves...maybe I am god...I am pretty sure I am god...." and so on. You cannot debate with a narcissist. You cannot take a narcissist to pieces. And as much as it saddens me to say this acting like the narcissist he is in a debate with Sanders wouldn't have harmed Trump either because for a reason I cannot understand he could even drop his pants in the middle of one of his press briefings at the White House and masturbate in front of the cameras and it wouldn't suffice to discredit him in the eyes of his followers AND in the eyes of at least half of the American voters. The only question we will be facing in the 2020 election is, where the rift that divides your country runs through exactly? Is it 49% to 51%? Or is it 51% to 49%?

              Few expected Trump to actually win in the 2016 election. This is one thing that has changed. He is going to win unless enough Sanders supporters are willing to vote for Biden.

              Biden is definitely no force for the good. He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils. But there is a whole world of evil between Biden's evilness and Trump's evilness.

              flow

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              • #87
                A lot of Americans don't vote. We can only hope the offensiveness of the last four years will spur some to make the effort to change the world. I expect Trump will win, mainly because he fights dirty and is willing to break the law to win.

                "I like who I am when I'm with him. I like who we are together."

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                • #88
                  It is very easy to castigate Americans for not voting-

                  But the reasons for non-voting are complex, have little to
                  do with apathy and everything to do with an overwhelming
                  sense that voting makes no difference, given the corruption
                  of the two major parties.

                  As Glenn Greenwald writes in The Intercept:

                  Those who choose not to vote because of dissatisfaction with the choices offered are disproportionately poorer and nonwhite, while rich white people vote in far larger percentages. And the data also makes clear that the primary motive for nonvoting among those demographic groups is not voter suppression but a belief that election outcomes do not matter because both parties are corrupt or interested only in the lives of the wealthy.

                  [....]

                  Nonvoters, despite their large numbers, are rarely discussed in mainstream U.S. precincts. In part that is because national media figures in cable news and Washington are overwhelmingly affluent and have little connection to or interest in them.

                  But in large part, that omission is explained by the fact that interrogating why so many millions of Americans choose not to vote would force the political and media class to grapple with the reason for this choice: Namely, the widespread perception that the political process and the two major parties are fundamentally corrupted and indifferent to all but a small sliver of privileged people. Confronting that problem and being forced to address it is far more difficult than creating a pleasant fiction that falsely maintains that people who abstain from voting do so because of selfish, amoral racial and class privilege.
                  You can read the article itself, which includes a summary
                  of a NYT article about poor Wisconsin residents who did
                  not vote in 2016 and did not regret it, even though it brought
                  Trump to office, as well as Greenwald's ever incisive analysis,
                  here:

                  https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/...e-two-parties/


                  And none of this bodes well for a Biden candidacy-


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                  • #89
                    I understand feeling that voting does not create change, and I support proportional representation in Canada. But as Margaret Mead said:
                    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

                    In other news can it possibly be true that Trump thinks he can mine the moon? 2020 has got to go down as the strangest year ever......

                    "I like who I am when I'm with him. I like who we are together."

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                    • #90
                      In other news can it possibly be true that Trump thinks he can mine the moon? 2020 has got to go down as the strangest year ever......
                      I'm sure the man who lives there might have something to say about that!

                      Comment


                      • Stoney
                        Stoney commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I love it when a day starts with a laugh, thank you.

                    • #91
                      He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils.
                      Biden voted for the invasion of Iraq in 2002. That alone makes him worse than Trump. Man, I don't know, I kinda hope Trump wins - I feel like Americans deserve Trump, call it karma or whatever.

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                      • bespangeled
                        bespangeled commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Wow - do you know how many people are dying right now because of him?

                    • #92
                      Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
                      I understand feeling that voting does not create change, and I support proportional representation in Canada. But as Margaret Mead said:
                      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

                      In other news can it possibly be true that Trump thinks he can mine the moon? 2020 has got to go down as the strangest year ever......
                      I mean, we could mine the moon, from an engineering and logistical standpoint, probably within 5-10 years if we had a real hard-on for it. It is a lot more logistically manageable than a Mars colony for damn sure - but it would be cumbersomely expensive per unit mined so unless there's dilithium crystals up there I don't know about. It sounds like something I'd have expected in a SOTU speech (a place where Presidents randomly promise outlandish, unlikely, or dubiously useful things, like hydrogen fuel cell cars) and not just Trump Trumpin'.
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                      • #93
                        No It's just Trump acting like an insane arsehole to distract people from his appalling failure in dealing with this current crisis. I mean how bloody mad does he have to act before his electorate wake up and go against him? Christ!

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                        • #94
                          Originally posted by Silver1 View Post
                          No It's just Trump acting like an insane arsehole to distract people from his appalling failure in dealing with this current crisis. I mean how bloody mad does he have to act before his electorate wake up and go against him? Christ!
                          I still expect he'll be reelected. Polling indicates that most Americans - both parties - consider the Chinese government the primary party-at-fault for our current woes. Which makes sense; reasonable people can differ over how well we prepared for the "next one" after the "last one" 10 years ago, and I could give chapter and verse on how for the most part the actions of our government when it was jumping in and "helping" have mostly made this go worse, slower, and harder. But, if a drunk driver jumps the curb and squashes a pedestrian, it doesn't matter if the pedestrian was hyper-vigilant or had their face glued to their phone - it's the drunk driver's fault they got squashed. The Chinese Communist Party has acted with malice and recklessness toward the world at large - spent weeks blatantly lying about the nature and severity of the disease*, vanished and likely murdered doctors or citizen journalists who tried to share the truth with the world (as recently as a couple weeks ago), and while deploying brutal and inhuman tactics like welding people into their apartment buildings in Wuhan or kidnapping (presumably killing) unsymptomatic people who were thought to be exposed, they eventually just gave up and let 5m people evacuate - unscreened - from the city.

                          So even if one were to conclude that Trump, personally, could and should have done more (although this is a harder case to make if one wants to just stick to the regulatory facts and the bounds of his legal authority, i.e. the fact that he can't issue a "national stay-at-home" order even if he were to want to), by and large the public are blaming the party that was actually intentionally trying to screw them over, which is Xi's government.

                          *all the downplaying of the disease in this country - hardly unique to Trump, I could bombard you with headlines from journalists and politicians of all political bent in this country from mid-late January through early March downplaying it - was actually just people making the deadly mistake of "trusting China and/or the WHO which is basically their sock puppet".
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                          • bespangeled
                            bespangeled commented
                            Editing a comment
                            He was told in November of the risk, and did nothing. He was told in January that the virus was here and did nothing. He arranged to have infected people into the country with no PPE for anyone. He encouraged people to get out and and minimized the risk, and he has refused to put together a federal plan to help the states - which is the purpose of the federal government. He has said his reaction was the best reaction ever, and he takes no personal responsibility fro anything ever There are still idiots out there gathering in support of Trump,. and in the belief that this virus is a Democratic hoax to take the presidency.

                            Like many people I have someone who is a first responder - and these selfish, self identified Trump supporters are putting her life in danger every time they leave their churches or rallies. They are the only people Trump supports. You have no idea of the anger out there against the pitiful declarations that this is the best the President of the UNITED states - united by a federal government - can do for the entire country.

                            I don't care what happened in China - I care about people dying, here and a "president" who has no idea what his job is - who simply lives for the adoration of crowds. A president who is more concerned about his ratings on the news than the deaths in NY. A president who claims that medical personnel are selling PPE, and lying abut how much is needed. The more he opens his mouth, the lower his approval ratings go at this time. Here's hoping he keeps talking about how abused he is, and how he is constantly being victimized. That might impress his followers, but not the rest of the country.

                          • Stoney
                            Stoney commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Please only use comments for quick, light responses. If your reply is more involved then pop it into a main post.

                        • #95
                          But Trump is a f'king dangerous looney that will kill you all. Why can't more Americans see that? The man is clearly mentally unstable.

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                          • #96
                            All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



                            * Vice President Joseph Biden needs to support some version of 'Medicare For All'. It's already polling at around 55% of voters and it'll only increase as increasing numbers are fired or furloughed and as increasing numbers need treatment for Covid-19.

                            So far, VP Biden and the Democratic Establishment are still so corrupt that they refuse to support 'Medicare For All' even though its a very clear Election issue winner.


                            * It seems clear US Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is gearing up for a possible 2024 A.D. run.


                            * The Mainstream Media is simply overall disgusting. They were incredibly against US Senator Bernard Sanders and nowadays they are gushing over US President Donald Trump whenever he does something as small as have an 'appropriate tone' in a briefing to the public. It's unsurprising fewer are trusting the MSM.


                            * The recent $4.5-4.75T stimulus is simply gross. Much more should be put into the pockets of people who need it and not corporations that don't need it. Upwards of around 20-40% didn't pay Rent on April 1, 2020 because of the pandemic. Imagine subsequent if actual relief isn't sent to people. Yet investors were essentially largely 'made whole' from the pockets of the median taxpayer. The Trump Administration can dole out $100s of billions to trillions to companies that may support Trump and this will all be done with largely around zero meaningful oversight and 'strings'.


                            * When Trump is out of Office, it'd not be at all surprising if the Trump and Kushner families made billions of dollars from the Trump Presidency.


                            * I don't want the United States to become an actual Dictatorship or a hereditary Monarchy.
                            Trump shows no loyalty except to himself.

                            Trump poll numbers are relatively abysmal. He's not even well over 50% in a time of international crisis. I hope Biden gets replaced at the Democratic Convention because his cognitive decline is a real issue. But he should be able to win by decent Debate performances. And by supporting some form of 'Medicare For All'.

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                            • bespangeled
                              bespangeled commented
                              Editing a comment
                              They have already made billions - and they intend to suck up a tton of money for the hotel chain. They are a freakin crime family! Biden is coming around - he's for lowering the retirement age to 6- - and then lowering it every five years. He's also for forgiving student debt for people who went to public colleges and university, as well as traditional minority colleges like Howard University. I supported Bernie but I am voting Biden. You have to stop the patent from bleeding out before you can do anything else.

                          • #97
                            I'm not an expert on politics or the United States but I do recognize when something simply isn't working anymore. Trump should not be president. He is an embarrassment. When history looks back on his presidency it won't be pretty.

                            today all of the parties with elected members of parliament came together in Canada and passed such needed legislation. Each party leader was given the opportunity to speak and there was very little politicizing of the issue.

                            there was a bit of "my party is best and we take credit for this part of the legislation" posturing but mainly the message centered around being united and working together for the good of the nation. I couldn't find a clip of speech highlights just the whole session. Trudeau starts speaking at 1 hours 33 minutes and if you want to see what a federal government should look like in a pandemic I suggest watching the first couple of minutes of each speaker as a reminder that it is possible to work with people of diverging opinions in a respect truly way.
                             

                            "I like who I am when I'm with him. I like who we are together."

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                            • #98
                              Well, I'm living in one of those states that's making the transition from Republican to never-Trump, and turning blue in the process. Our two former Republican senators - McCain and Flake - were both major thorns in Trump's paw. Now one of our senators is an openly bi atheist Democrat who took her oath on a law book. The Republican appointed by Ducey - Martha McSally - is facing Gabrielle Giffords ex-astronaut husband, Mark Kelly. People have urged him to run for office since Gabby Giffords was almost assassinated. Even McSally admits she doesn't have much of a chance. So that will be two senators flipped away from the Republicans since Trump was elected.

                              AZ is not going to become a Democratic state, but from what I see we are breaking away because there is no longer a Republican party or President. There is only Trump.This isn't about Republican and Democrat in the traditional sense here. It is all about Trump. and the extremes in emotion he cultivates. It's about the wall which we largely oppose because trade with Mexico is critical to border economy. We've had record turnout in the last election (2018) and a blue wave. I expect record turnout in the next election, particularly in poor and minority communities. There's a lot of anger out there, and an awareness that their right to vote is being obstructed. Last election in Phoenix, they closed 140 polling stations and left only 60 open and people waited for 6-8 hours to vote in lines that went on forever.

                              2020 isn't the normal election year. Trump's base is not gonna change, but there's an interesting math going on. While Republicans support Trump, there are fewer people who identify as Republicans because the party has become a cult that stands for nothing except supporting the president. Trump has lost the suburbs, and the well educated white vote. For all the people talking about no turnout, and Trump winning again - I just don't see it. Maybe that's just because there is so much movement against Trump in AZ
                              Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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                              • GoSpuffy
                                GoSpuffy commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I genuinely hope you are correct but I fear you are not.

                            • #99
                              I know social media isn't real life, but I've seen a lot of Democrats saying they will never vote for Biden because he's a rapist. Is this a big issue in the US? Will it stop a lot of Dems voting for Biden?

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                              • I'm pretty sure those people aren't actually Democrats. The case against him is so weak that after Ronan Farrow investigated it he declined to write about it. I am a militant feminist and I investigated. I can see why no reputable reporter is telling her story. It just doesn't hold up.

                                But I am sure there are plenty of people willing to say that on tv even if they don't get paid. It's the best the Republicans can do in the dirty tricks department. I don't believe Biden is a saint, but his zipper is not his problem. I don't like the Democrats, but the only alternative is the Trump party. At least it's not Hilary - there's no way Biden will ever be as polarizing..
                                Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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