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Episode 4x03 ~ In the Beginning

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  • Episode 4x03 ~ In the Beginning

    Here's the episode description for tonight's eppy:

    Supernatural
    In the Beginning (New) 9:00 PM, 1 hr
    Thu 10/02/2008
    WPCW 19
    Sci-Fi/Other
    TVPG, English, 2008

    Dean is transported back in time and finds himself in Lawrence, Kansas, where he comes across younger versions of his parents and meets his grandfather, who may be hiding a secret that is key to his and Dean's predicament.
    Cast & Credits: Jared Padalecki, Jensen Ackles, Lauren Cohan

    ooh, this sounds rather interesting, and I'm always up for some back-story. I just hope tonight's episode is able to gather some ratings as it's up against the highly publicized VP debate.
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  • #2
    Sweet Moses! Wow, I'm ****ing speechless.

    I absolutely loved this episode. It's possibly my favorite in the series so far, and given what it's up against; that's saying something.

    I knew Mary came from a family of hunters from spoilers, but I had no clue see was one! When she attacked Dean, I was like, "Holy shit!"

    I also liked young John, because you saw a difference. This John was happy and sweet. It's kind of sad to know how that turns out.

    I loved that Dean was named after his Grandma! Um, what else? Oh! When Azazel broke John's neck! I was like, "What?!"

    Oh! I loved that John almost bought a van! Could you imagine Dean and Sam riding around in a Volkswagen?!

    Seriously, I don't know what else to say right now. Amazing episode!

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    • #3
      OH MY GOD! That was just the most amazing episode. I'm so bowled over that I don't have hardly any words.

      At first I thought that this was going to be a Back To The Future type deal that Dean was just supposed to ensure that his parents ended up together. I had no idea that it was going to be so important to the overall series.

      Deals upon deals, upon deals. The levels to this show are so frakkin amazing!

      So just a few things I loved:-

      The actor playing Young John was brilliant. He looks very much like I would expect a young JDM to look and seemed to have captured his voice and quirks extremely well.

      Azazeal possessing Grandpappy, having the conversation with Dean and ending with Dean telling him to look into his eyes because he's the one that kills him. Wow that gave me chills.

      Dean persuading Young John to buy the Impala. Had to be of course, but it was handled well - Dean sold John the idea of the car in a practical manner, without being overly sentimental about his baby.

      That Mary made a deal to save John - heartbreaking and so perfect for this show.

      Dean telling Mary not to get out of bed on the 21st Nov 1983. I felt every bit of that emotion. Such a shame she didn't remember/follow that piece of advice.

      The one thing I didn't love (but still wasn't awful):-

      The grandparents being called Deanna and Samuel. Ok I like that it's sweet that the boys were called after their grandparents, but a bit lame all the same.

      Huh? It seemed I did have a few words after all. Very excited to see what the rest of you guys have to say about it!!!
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      Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor

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      • #4
        This episode was amazing on so many levels!!! I almost shitted my pants watching it. I was so surprised about a lot of things that went down in this episode. I love the actress that played Young Mary. She was great and looked a lot a like the actress that plays the older version. I think this episode was great in every way, shape or, form.

        Mary a HUNTER!! That was shocking. I didn’t even see that coming at all. I always thought John was the one that was a hunter. I was wrong and now I can put some puzzles together about Mary. I see why she knew yellow eyes that night when he was over Sam's crib. It explains some questions I’ve been wonder about. I John was funny and I think it’s awesome that he wasn’t a hunter. His life was happy and light back then, and like others said, it’s sad to know what his future is, same with Mary.

        When Dean was talking to Young Mary it broke my heart because she had so much life and her future planned out. She wanted something better for her children and to know that they did grow up in the same life as she did as a hunter was heart ranching. Then when Dean told her not to get out of bed 10 years into the future, and when he start crying. It made me a tad bit teary eyes Shhh don’t tell.

        Well, this episode is one of my favorites and I LOVED IT!!
        Last edited by Dark Ages; 03-10-08, 10:00 PM.
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        • #5
          ZOMG! My brain! Iz DED! The twistiness!

          Wow, but we are barrelling along Mytharc Road so far this season.

          To be continued!!

          Whew.

          Where to begin?! I'm lost for words!

          ?okay, so that was clearly a lie. I can always find words. Usually a lot of them. So ? stream of consciousness, ahoy.

          Right, so I sat through this episode thinking, 'wow, this is unashamedly manipulative writing'. And then I got to the end and went, 'whoa! That was unashamedly manipulative angeling!' Awesome!

          I knew it was all about Sam. It had to be. It's always been all about Sam. And now we know why Mary apologised to him. I'm impressed at how well the disparate pieces all fit together within the one episode plot. Very nice tying up of loose ends! Still doesn't really explain why everyone she'd ever known was killed later, though ? there are a few loose strands left dangling still. Maybe those will be dealt with, or maybe they will be quietly swept under the carpet. We'll see.

          Also? Wow, JA has had a heavy workload so far this season, and wow, JP has had a light workload so far this season! I am expecting switcheroos and payoff in future episodes.

          Castiel can be kinda creepy. And he knows it, too, and gets a kick out of it. Maybe that's why angels only get to interfere every so many millennia ? the power trip is bad for them. Plus, he has absolutely no concept of personal space. I kinda like that about him. It all adds in to the sense that he is completely and utterly unaccustomed to mortal interaction. He's still having something of a hard time figuring Dean out, a piece at a time.

          Time travel always ties my brain in knots. Was Dean always a part of his own family history, this one instance of time travel, like a kind of infinite loop? Sam's destiny created by the desire of those up above to learn what that destiny is? Or did Castiel create a separate little time bubble, a short-lived alternate reality for Dean to interact with, a bit like the Trickster, in which events played out slightly differently but ultimately ended up in the same place? It could even have just been a really vivid, interactive dream he implanted in Dean's head, but?

          I'm also kind of fascinated by the idea that the YED had met Dean before and had that conversation with him. It makes me want to go back and watch all the Azazel episodes again, through new eyes!

          Samuel and Deanna Campbell. Oh, Show. And they seem such a nice, normal couple, apart from the hunting.

          The boys have left Bobby's and are back on the road again. Couldn't stay there on the sofa and floor forever, I suppose. So now it's just the two of them and a motel, like the good old days. Only not.

          "Sammy, wherever you are ? Mom is a babe. I'm going to hell. Again."

          Young John was nicely casted?but kinda short. He was shorter than Dean. And yet Daddy John was taller than Dean. So John grew a few inches in his 20s? *G*

          You know, seeing Dean killing Azazel again in the recap in the frame before Castiel tells him God commanded his resurrection because they have work for him?it really kinda drives home just how much of a warrior Dean is, whether he has a firm grasp on his own value or not. He's made some pretty key moves in the fight against evil.

          Sam is really scaring me this season. Twice in three episodes now he's snuck out while Dean was sleeping (which ? we're seeing Dean sleep a lot!). And Sam really isn't as happy about having Dean back as he should be. Too conflicted. He should be glued to his brother's side, barely able to take his eyes off him...but instead we get this terrible distance, and all the sneaking away.

          I wonder how Sam and Ruby communicate ? has he got Andy's power down now, or something, able to transmit his thoughts right into her head? Wherever they are going in this episode, they have clearly planned it all out in advance, for which communication of some kind would have been necessary. She didn't keep her distance long, then, however afraid she is of the angel. And Sam looks and sounds so very satisfied to be heading out with her ? like this is what he really wants to be doing, instead of wasting his time with Dean. Yeah, Sam scares me this season. I'm very worried for him, and for Dean by association. And I'm expecting big payoff later in the season.

          Why, when Dean sleeps in the motel, is he using his coat as a cover when there is a perfectly serviceable blanket right there underneath him? Whatever, I'm happy to see that he has his leather jacket back. Looks like Sam really did just store his things someplace, rather than disposing of them.

          If Sam is never around when Dean has nightmares about hell?that'll make it easier for Dean to hide the slowly returning memories, at least until they get so bad they overwhelm him.

          I love how long it takes Dean to realise he is in the past. Like the outfits and the cars and general scenery makes no impression on him whatsoever. Time travel is impossible, so it would never even occur to him. Oh, oh, oh, and that he still, after all this time, keeps John's journal in his coat pocket, with him at all times.

          "Can you, uh, tell me where I can get reception on this thing?"
          "The USS Enterprise."
          Mwah. Trekkie John! And his reaction to the shock news that Sonny and Cher broke up! Man, John was so very normal, back in the day. It's just heartbreaking to think how much Mary's death changed him.

          Oh, Dean's face when he realises who John is. Damn. And then stalking him because?it's his Dad. Only it isn't, not yet. I kept expecting John to realise he was being followed, what with being an ex-Marine and all, but no.

          "What, are you allergic to straight answers, you son of a bitch?"

          JA has such expressive eyes. And such an expressive face. And such amazing acting ability. *is in awe*

          "This is the car you want." Impala! "This is the car of a lifetime. Trust me, this thing's still going to be badass when it's forty." Oh, Dean. And? "My Dad taught me everything I know." *is sad*

          Dean van Halen. Mwah.

          "Yeah. If only I knew when to stop." Bless his heart. Also - I should adopt that as my own new tagline!

          So John was a mechanic from a family of mechanics. Man, Sam really was the odd one out there, then!

          Wow, Mary's got some moves. And of course Dean's not going to fight back ? he knows she's his Mom. Heh, and I love that she spotted Dean tailing them immediately, when soldier John didn't. She's a hunter! Whoa!

          "We're all hunters, right? We're?practically family." Aww.

          I managed to be almost completely unspoiled for this episode ? I don't know how much of the plot leaked out, but all I knew in advance was that Dean would go back in time and meet his parents when they were young. So the shock reveal about Mary and her family was just that: a shock. Which was brilliant. I love that Mary's silver charm bracelet really does have actual charms on it ? protection charms. Nifty!

          "My Dad, he's a little?"
          "Oh, I've got to meet him."
          "So you've heard of him?"
          "Clearly not enough."

          Mitch Pileggi!!

          "I don't trust other hunters, Dean. I don't want their help. I don't want them around my family." Man, hunters really are all completely paranoid! And isolationist. But now I want to know how Sam Campbell got started, and how he got his whole family involved ? there's a whole 'nother origin story there that we'll probably never know. I mean, his wife, Deanna, doesn't seem all that actively involved ? she doesn't go out interviewing, and doesn't join in with the weapons maintenance. She seems more of an Ellen, the stay-at-home supportive research type. Not that it's really possible to tell for sure from the brief glimpse of their lives in this episode. She doesn't seem to have any problem letting her daughter grow up as a hunter.

          "So you didn't notice anything unusual, ma'am?"
          "You mean like my husband's guts fertilizing the back 40?"
          Wow, the resemblance between Dean and his grandfather is striking. They'd have got along so very well, if only they'd had the chance. Hee at Dean's face, enjoying someone else putting their foot in it for once.

          I love how Dean always says dee-monic.

          "Did you find anything about it on the Web?? Uh?web of information that you have assembled." Hee.

          Hunting really is the family business. And John was the outsider who never even knew it. God, it's heartbreaking to think how desperately Mary wanted out, wanted a safe normal life for herself and her future family, was willing to run away and hide the truth about herself in order to attain it ? kind of like season one Sam, huh? She's so excited and happy at the thought of getting married. And yet by making that deal she sealed all their fates. Exchanged John's life for the future she never wanted for her sons. It's like a Greek tragedy! At least Mary had a stable home to grow up in, instead of backwood cabins and cheap motels.

          Dean got himself nicely set up in 1973 awful quick, no? Car, priest costume? Which?Sam gets the costume thing from Mary's side of the family!

          Daniel Elkins!

          "My Dad could see the future." Heh, because that's the line they might actually believe!

          "You seem like a really nice kid, Dean, but yeah ? you're crazy."

          "Doesn't matter what your dad thinks. I like that John kid. I think you two are meant to be. Hell, I'm depending on it." Oh man, and that he can't resist asking what his Dad was like, before. And Mary describes John as sweet and kind ? "after everything, he still believes in happily ever after" ? and it just makes you want to cry for what became of him, the choice that she made. What's right and what's wrong? This family make choices guided by their hearts, rather than their heads ? they all have that in common. And they all live with the consequences.

          "You know the worst thing I can think of, the very worst thing? It's for my children to be raised into this like I was. I won't let it happen." Oh, God, Dean can't even speak, hearing that. His face! The tears! And he just can't bear it and tries to warn her, tries to stop it happening. It's the complete opposite decision to What Is And What Should Never Be, where he chose to sacrifice his family for the greater good. Too much has happened since then, too much pain and tragedy. He has to try.

          "If I do this, then the family curse breaks, right? Mom and Dad live happily ever after, and Sam and I grow up playing little league and chasing tail?" Remember when Dean denied that their family was cursed? And Castiel lets him believe it ? lets him believe he can change it. It's cruel. And asks if he cares about the people who will die if the Winchesters never become hunters, when?this is Dean. Of course he cares. We all know how much he cares. But family is everything.

          But their fate just can't be changed. So how does that fit with the usual message that everyone is in control of their own fate, that destiny doesn't have to be written in stone? It's all about choices.

          "I have a chance to save my family's lives. My family. But I need this gun to do it. So if you want to stop me, kill me."

          Ohohohohoh, Dean. "What happened tonight, I think this is the moment when he caught her scent." Oh, man. And he tells Grandpappy Sam the absolute truth, crazy as it sounds?oh how I wish they could have had that moment for real. But Samuel already possessed. The moment he asks for the Colt and Dean doesn't give it to him?talk about shades of Devil's Trap! Dean is the only male in the family never to have been possessed! And, whoa ? Mitch Pleggi absolutely rocks the YED. And the YED cottons onto Dean's 'friends in high places' pretty damn quickly, as the only thing with the juice to send him back here. Interesting.

          Oh, but you've got to love the warped affection the YED has for his psychic kids. Having a sniff to check if Dean is one of them ? again with the breaching of personal space. And considering Mary his favourite so far ? like mother like son, huh. The apple don't fall far from the tree.

          So now Dean knows about the demon blood Sam ingested as an infant ? but he doesn't know that Sam knows. Makes me wonder how much of what happened here Dean will share with Sam ? I mean, if Castiel didn't totally set up all kinds of a showdown between the brothers at the end of the episode, that is. "Sam's not looking for you," he said, and how sad was that. Except that Dean's little trip through time didn't seem to take long enough for Sam to notice he was gone, even if he hadn't snuck off by himself.

          Azazel's endgame is a lot bigger than just a demon army, he says ? but what it is?! All we know so far is that he needed a human with special powers to lead his army, which would be Sam, and that the demons he held such tyranny over have splintered since his demise. And that Ruby has expressed a desire to find out what the plan was ? maybe if she makes progress with that we'll learn more.

          "Look into my eyes, you son of a bitch ? 'cause I'm the one that kills you." So Dean told him, gave him over 30 years warning?and the YED still completely discounted him as any kind of a threat. His over-confidence really was his downfall. That's assuming this is the real timeline, that is ? the time travel paradoxes tie my brain in knots!

          So, the YED killed both of Mary's parents, and John (twice) and was responsible for Sam's death, which indirectly lead to Dean's? That's an impressive toll to take on one family! Then again, he also made deals to return both John and Dean to life. Wow, but the twistiness eats my brain!

          I wonder what Mary told John about how her father died??

          The tragedy of Mary's deal to save John's life is just chilling and heart-rending. If she hadn't done it, the boys would never have been born ? but by doing it, she sealed all their fates.

          "You can keep your soul. I just need permission. Ten years, I need to swing by your house for a little something, that's all." But that was enough to doom them all! "As long as I'm not interrupted, nobody gets hurt." That ties in with what he told Sam in All Hell Breaks Loose.

          Not sure why he had to kiss her, though, other than to squick everyone out and twist the knife ? I'm fairly certain the YED didn't seal his other deals with a kiss!

          Oh God, poor Dean, arriving too late to save anyone. Castiel actually looked compassionate when he showed up to take him home, as if he regretted how hard it had been for Dean?but it didn't have to be! Surely there was no need for Castiel to make him believe he stood a chance of changing things. Unless Castiel needed the timeline to play out that way because it already had?man, again with the brain-twisting timeline paradoxes!

          I wonder if Mary recognised Dean, when her spirit met him again in Home, as not just her son but the man she'd met so long ago.

          Oh, wow ? that final scene in the motel is just chilling. "Destiny can't be changed, Dean. All roads lead to the same destination." But?for three seasons now, Show has plugged the line that everyone is responsible for their own actions and the choices they make, that nothing is inevitable!

          Sam's oh-so neatly made up bed worries me. It's a bit too Mystery Spot for comfort. "We know what Azazel did to your brother. What we don't know is why, what his endgame is. He went to great lengths to cover that up. [?] Your brother is headed down a dangerous road, Dean, and we're not sure where it leads. So stop it. Or we will."

          Yowza!

          I'm really, really loving season four. The writing has so much energy about it, from the plotting to the dialogue - it all just snap, crackles and pops, and is just so, so fantastic. I really hope they can continue like this all season!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Llywela View Post
            Still doesn't really explain why everyone she'd ever known was killed later, though ? there are a few loose strands left dangling still. Maybe those will be dealt with, or maybe they will be quietly swept under the carpet. We'll see.
            See I presumed immediately that's what Castiel meant by covering his tracks so well. Somehow, Mary being a hunter and her deal with Azazeal to save John, must've threatened his plan in a way that we don't know about now. The only way to keep it a secret would be to wipe out anyone she knew I guess. Maybe I'm reaching.

            I'm also kind of fascinated by the idea that the YED had met Dean before and had that conversation with him. It makes me want to go back and watch all the Azazel episodes again, through new eyes!
            Oh totally! Breaking out the S1&S2 boxset as we speak!

            "Sammy, wherever you are ? Mom is a babe. I'm going to hell. Again."
            Yeah I was wondering if they were going to play on that in the same way they did in AtS - "Go to hell!" "Been there done that". I'm glad they did, I would've been disappointed if they didn't really.

            Young John was nicely casted?but kinda short. He was shorter than Dean. And yet Daddy John was taller than Dean. So John grew a few inches in his 20s? *G*
            I didn't notice that! I suppose I was just so in awe of how much like HunterJohn this YoungJohn was, in his manner of speaking, but without the pessimism that HunterJohn had.

            Why, when Dean sleeps in the motel, is he using his coat as a cover when there is a perfectly serviceable blanket right there underneath him?
            I noticed that too, maybe he was watching telly and just fell asleep. That theory though, makes Sam's sneaking out almost more reckless - Dean could've woken up at any moment.

            God, it's heartbreaking to think how desperately Mary wanted out, wanted a safe normal life for herself and her future family, was willing to run away and hide the truth about herself in order to attain it ? kind of like season one Sam, huh?
            Another thing I hadn't thought of, and you're so right. Really, Sam is the one who's most like his parents, whereas Dean is the one who is least like them. Never thought I'd think that at the beginning of the series.

            And the YED cottons onto Dean's 'friends in high places' pretty damn quickly, as the only thing with the juice to send him back here. Interesting.
            I picked up on a couple of references to god/angels whilst Dean was back in time, but they escape me now. I'll have to watch again (oh the agony of having to sit through that episode again )

            "Look into my eyes, you son of a bitch ? 'cause I'm the one that kills you." So Dean told him, gave him over 30 years warning?and the YED still completely discounted him as any kind of a threat.
            On reflection this puzzles me. Azazeal was a very cautious demon with far reaching plans. Wouldn't it have been fairly easy to take Dean out in any number of ways before Dean got the opportunity to kill him? Why did he think Dean as so little a threat, to not believe him? Everything that Azazeal says to Sam in AHBL about why he was his favourite rings true for Dean as well. If Sam can be the best because of how he was brought up and trained, then why wouldn't Dean be the most likely candidate for Azazeal to be worried about?

            I wonder if Mary recognised Dean, when her spirit met him again in Home, as not just her son but the man she'd met so long ago.
            I think she did. Something in her tone of voice when she says his name, shows familiarity beyond that she knew it was her eldest son. I don't think Mary would've ever forgotten the events of those couple of days somehow, do you?

            I'm really, really loving season four. The writing has so much energy about it, from the plotting to the dialogue - it all just snap, crackles and pops, and is just so, so fantastic. I really hope they can continue like this all season!
            Can't agree more. It's like what I was expecting Season 3 to be if they hadn't had a writer's strike or stupid women (sorry wo-man!) thrust in their direction for no reason at all. Maybe the strike has done some good - given the writers a chance to step back, reassess and really come back on top of their game!
            So, is it next Thursday yet?
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            • #7
              Wow- this is my favorite episode for Season Four. I was totally in for a surprise.

              I knew this episode was going to be about Dean going back in time to see his young parents but that's it. I never anticipated that Mary was a hunter and that she came from a line of hunters. Once I saw her beating up poor Dean- I figured it out. And sure enough, it was confirmed when Dean saw her charm bracelet. I love Dean's reaction when he learned this.

              Dean and Sam has always felt the burden of the life they lived and in some respect, they blamed their father for it. Yet, it turns out it was Mary who lived that life. Totally unexpected! I love it!

              Now it all makes sense- why Mary's spirit apologized to Sam. Why- she recognized the YED. Everything. This is what I love about this show how each season ties in with the previous. I love how the Colt came back into play and we got to see a young Daniel Elkins as well. As this episode progressed- I then realized that Mary made a deal with the YED- it fits the timeline when Sam was born. While I couldn't see Mary doing that, I knew she had to be in a desperate position to do so- which in then end turned out to be John's death. Poor Mary- losing her parents like that and John. The guilt she must have felt over the years.

              When Dean was sitting next to John in the diner and when their last name was called- I loved it how they looked up at the same time. Right then and there- I was instantly flashed to Back to the Future what that same particular scene between Marty McFly and his father. Funny stuff.

              I love how Dean and Sam were named after their grandparents. Especially Dean- how funny he was named after his grandmother. It's just too funny.

              As I was watching this episode- I didn't take this timeline as the one that 'really' happened. So did Dean really influence his father to get the Impala? Did the YED demon or Mary's spirit recognized Dean years later? Wouldn't Dean already know about the Colt in Season One? Yah see, this is me confused.

              I am also confused about the YED's endgame. Isn't releasing Lucifer the endgame? Does that mean the endgame is actually something bigger? What about the army that the YED has been trying to create? Is that still in the picture?

              Jensen was amazing here- I love watching him as Dean. His acting range just wows me.

              I find it interesting how Mary wanted to get out of that life just as Sam did and John didn't. Sam and John fought about it which put a strain on their relationship. Sort of ironic I guess.

              All in all- awesome episode. It really rocked!
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              • #8
                And Jeremy Carver delivered an amazing episode to us this week. I really have to say that Supernatural has gone off to an amazing start so far. The writing is just so energetic full of life, the mytharc is constantly being added to without taking away from the relationship of the brothers. I don't have the insight to write as much as you lovely people, but here are my thoughts on the episode.

                So we open with a scene of Dean and Sammy in the hotel room. And again Sam is sneaking away from Dean to be with Ruby. Honestly this trend has me a little bit worried. Sam certainly does seem to be in the act of both sneaking behind Dean's back and lying to his face recently doesn't he? Showing that he clearly can't just go back to the way things were before. One complaint I do have though is the new actress who is playing Ruby I hope the writers ditch her as soon as possible (despite the moral issue) because honestly she just isn't selling the character for me in the same way Katie Cassidy did.

                And then as seems to be the common occurrence Castiel awakens Dean from his dream. Telling him of something he needed to stop I could instantly tell that we were in for a hell of a ride this episode. Well that and the fact that I had been spoiled on the going back in time theme of this episode. And so Dean finds himself lying on a bench somewhere lost and disorientated with no signal on his cell phone. Then he goes to a local caf? and who just happens to be sitting in it. Oh that's right daddy Winchester only he's not a daddy just yet. Personally I loved the conversation between the two the way they had the same little quirks. Have to say Dean and John both turning around at the name Winchester was hilarious and then of course Dean finally realizes just whom he is talking to, where he is and what he can hopefully do.

                Then we later find Dean and John meeting up once again as John was about to buy a mini van rather than the beloved impala. No wonder Castiel sent Dean back in time could you possibly imagine the Winchester brothers driving in that contraption twenty years from now? It was really nice to see that John came from a family of mechanics rather than hunters and that Dean's love of cars seems to be an inherited trait :P . Then we have Dean following John back to the home of Mama Winchester. From the fact that Dean managed to do this successfully just goes to show that this isn't the John he knew in the future not by a long shot.

                Then we see Mary and John together. Aww what a lovely couple they make and I personally thought that the actress who played her really did look like a younger version of Mary's older self. Though then again Supernatural has always been good at background casting. Just look at young Sam and Dean in A Very Supernatural Christmas. But whoa Mary has spotted Dean where John did not and proceeds to kick the living crap out of him and then a double wham we discover that Mary is in fact a hunter. The writers certainly managed to keep that under wraps and thankfully I was unspoiled about that particular twist making that one little scene seem all the more epic for me

                Then we get to meet Samuel and Deanna and I got to say Mary's side of the family definitely didn't get the amount of attention it deserved before this. Both of Mary's parents while living the extraordinary life style of hunting in most ways just seemed to be like a regular married couple. I found the scene where Samuel tries to have Dean thrown out after their introduction only for Deanna to undermine him and ask Dean to stay for dinner absolutely fricking hilarious. We can certainly tell who wears the pants in that relationship :L

                And now here's where the real fun starts. We get to find out a little more about the Yellow Eyed Demon and what he's doing during this time period. So we get to meet some of the people that YED managed to convince to make a deal with him. Ha seeing Mary and Samuel in their outfits and the looks on Samuel's face when he seen Dean had beat him to the chase was absolutely priceless. Now we know where Sammy got his love of making him and Dean wear such outfits while trying to gain information from. Yeah for Mary's side of the family. One question I do know it was mentioned, but I have a terrible memory. Anyone mind mentioning to me what the surname of Mary's family was?

                So we finally hit upon a burning question that I have had since the flashback in AHBL the origin relationship between Azazael and Mary. His proclamation that he liked Mary from the word goes. Then again I suppose maybe for demons her ability to somewhat hold her own against him for a bit longer than the average person is extremely attractive. The Mary and Dean scene we get from this episode was beautiful a true gem in what is already an amazing episode. We get to hear Mary's wishes to get away from the hunting scene and to have her children grow up nice normal life's unlike hers. So similar to Season One Sam in the same way that John's love of cars is so similar to Dean's. And then of course we get Dean's pleas for Mary to stay in her bed no matter what happens on the night of her death. Now, if only Mary had listened to that advise the boys could have been given the upbringing that she had always wanted for them.

                So Dean decides that now is the time for him to unload his problems to Samuel and with help from the other help to save his mother's life at the exact same time that she called to escape with John. I knew one of the two was possessed I just couldn't figure out which. So we see Mary leaving with John while Dean unloads the truth to Samuel who seems to after initial discomfort believe his out of there story. But wait Samuel wants to see the colt only Dean refuses to let him see it claiming that its nothing personal. Only for Samuel's eyes to turn yellow claiming yes it is.

                Uh-Oh Dean's in big trouble now. So we get to see Dean forced to stay in the chair while the YED reveals that it wasn't the souls of the people that he made deals with that he was after, but rather an invitation to taint the blood of their children with his own demonic blood when the time came as he would later do to Sammy on the night of Mary's death and the end of the boy's ordinary childhood. Dean out of anger despite his position lets the YED know the satisfaction that he will, or has already had in killing him depending on whose perspective you wish to take it from :L. But wait there's hope while Dean has been keeping old Yellow Eyes distracted Deanna has been sneaking in the direction of the colt. Her plan would have succeeded too, if it were not for Azazael decision to kill Samuel the spot before dispossessing him.

                So then there's Mary and John together in a car park together. The scene is perfectly romantic, if your into all that and John is proposing to Mary, but then what happens Samuel/Azazael comes out of nowhere demanding that Mary get out of the car. Taking it as nothing more than an over protective father looking out for his child. John tries to reason with Samuel until he sees that he is hurting Mary at which point he tries to defend her only for him to be murdered before Mary's eyes. The look of desperation in her eyes was heart wrenching and I have to say that the actress done a really good job of portraying that emotion to the audience. So then we get to see Mary make a deal, a deal that would eventually start the chain of events that would lead the Winchester brothers to where they are in the present.

                And so Dean doesn't manage to make the changes to the past that he had hoped, but he certainly learnt a lot during his time there and so Castiel who explains to him that he could never have made such changes at any rate drags him back to the present. Finally we get to see Castiel motives for dragging Dean out of hell and as you would expect it's all related to Sammy and the dark path that he's going down with Ruby. And so the episode ends in the ominous note of Castiel threatening to deal with Sam, if Dean doesn't leaving us with a cliffhanger. Damn you Kripke for making me wait a week to find out what happened from there!
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Obsessed View Post
                  As I was watching this episode- I didn't take this timeline as the one that 'really' happened. So did Dean really influence his father to get the Impala? Did the YED demon or Mary's spirit recognized Dean years later? Wouldn't Dean already know about the Colt in Season One? Yah see, this is me confused.
                  Maybe it's just me, but I thought Dean couldn't change anything because that's how things actually went down. For the past to happen, Dean had to go there. So, it wouldn't disrupt the time line, him not going would be what actually disrupts it. So, I don't think there's more than one time line, just one. Does that make sense?

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                  • #10
                    Holy frakkin' crap! Seriously, that was amazing. My favorite episode of Supernatural ATM. Totally awesome.

                    No offense to Sam, but it was a nice change of pace to just have Dean, because that is awesome. The actress who plays Young!Mary....well, let's just say....she was really amazing! I loved her portrayal of Young!Mary, and I could totally she that actress growing up to look like Old!Mary (well, not old, but...ya know!) Young!John was great as well. The grandparents were really cool, and I liked seeing YED coming back. QUESTION: Azazel is the Yellow-Eyed Demon, correct? If so, how can Azazel have an endgame if he's...well, dead. Plus, doesn't Lucifer control the endgame?

                    Anyways, I loved loved loved the twists! Mary knowing YED, how the grandparents died, how Dean can't stop it, I almost fell off my couch when Mary attacked Dean, the deal! (which fits so perfectly)

                    It was really just perfection. I can't go into detail like all you, but I'll just say that I love it so SO much. These first three episodes of Season 4 have been, well....awesome.
                    Last edited by BlasterBoy; 04-10-08, 12:52 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                      QUESTION: Azazel is the Yellow-Eyed Demon, correct? If so, how can Azazel have an endgame if he's...well, dead. Plus, doesn't Lucifer control the endgame?
                      I think they meant with the way Sam is acting now. His power that he still has. YED has something to do with that. It's a bigger issue. The whole thing that went down in "All Hell Breaks Loose" Pt. 1 & 2 It made it seem like it was the end of that sotrylin. But with same with his powers he has a destiny. Is it good or evil. I dont know. Makes me nervous. That makes sense Bengy?
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                      • #12
                        I'm also worried about Sam. I mean, if all thing end up the way they're meant to... Sam's going down a dark road at the moment. Knowing Eric Kripke, he's probably going to keep heading down that past. I'm interested in seeing how this ends up. Dean would never kill Sam no matter how bad he got, would he?

                        Also, during a second viewing, I noticed something. The newspaper John is reading says, "April 30th." So, wouldn't that mean Mary made the deal on (or around) May 2nd, which is Sam's birthday...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thomas View Post
                          Also, during a second viewing, I noticed something. The newspaper John is reading says, "April 30th." So, wouldn't that mean Mary made the deal on (or around) May 2nd, which is Sam's birthday...
                          Yep! I noticed that in the preview that it was April 30th, 1973 and gasped that it was 10 years before Sam's birthday. And how ironic it was that the timing was just like in the Pilot, where the show begins on the last day of the month and then ends up on the 2nd of the next month.

                          Anyway since I had spotted that, I made sure to count off the nights when watching and the deal does happen on the 2nd of May, ten years before Sam's birth.

                          Lydia made the punch!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Obsessed View Post
                            So did Dean really influence his father to get the Impala? Did the YED demon or Mary's spirit recognized Dean years later? Wouldn't Dean already know about the Colt in Season One? Yah see, this is me confused.
                            If this was genuine history, and not some kind of alternate reality (or dream) created by Castiel for Dean to experience...well, either Mary's spirit or the YED might have recognised Dean. Who knows? If the YED did recognise him, it makes his arrogance all the greater - he never believed Dean was a threat to him in any way, and paid the price for that.

                            There would be no reason for Dean in S1 to know about the Colt, though - it was having learned about it then that made him able to go back and retrieve it now. And he told Elkins where it would be, so presumably Elkins would have reclaimed it long before John ever set out on his path as a hunter.

                            Confused yet?

                            I am also confused about the YED's endgame. Isn't releasing Lucifer the endgame? Does that mean the endgame is actually something bigger? What about the army that the YED has been trying to create? Is that still in the picture?
                            Releasing Lucifer appears to be Lilith's plan, this season at least. Whether or not the YED (Azazel) had the same goal we have no idea - his ultimate plans have always been shrouded in mystery. The only thing we know for sure is that Sam was a crucial part of the plan.

                            Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                            QUESTION: Azazel is the Yellow-Eyed Demon, correct? If so, how can Azazel have an endgame if he's...well, dead. Plus, doesn't Lucifer control the endgame?
                            Because even though Azazel isn't around any more, his plan was still set in motion before he died - parts of it, at least. Sam was a crucial part of that plan, that much we know, so that Sam is actively developing his powers now can't possibly be a good thing. It could be that Azazel's plan was a bit like a ball rolling downhill - once in motion, it doesn't necessarily need his active involvement to continue to fruition, as long as no obstacles get in the way. Or it could be that a guiding hand is required, which means that any other demon who figures out the plan could easily step up to the plate - and it is highly likely that Ruby, at least, has those kinds of designs.

                            Overall, until the extent of Azazel's endgame is known, it is impossible to determine just how great the danger is, and whether or not that plan or Lilith's is the greatest threat. The only thing that seems certain is that this is a hugely crucial time.

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                            • #15
                              oh.holy.crap. That was the BEST episode of the entire series, hands down! I loved everything about it.

                              First of all, Mary was a hunter! I totally did NOT see that coming! I loved how they managed to very convincingly tie up a lot of the loose threads from the past 3 seasons, I love seeing that the writers had some sort of plan with all of the tidbits they gave us (either that or they're just amazing at tying things together later on!)

                              I absolutely adored Mitch Pillegi! What an awesome choice for the boy's grandfather, and his acting abilities just blew me away in this episode.

                              It was so fitting to see that it was Mary who made a deal with a YED to bring back to life the one person she loved more than anyone on earth. Looks like Dean didn't fall too far from the tree, did he?

                              It was interesting to see Dean try to save his mother from the YED. But thinking about it, even if he could have, would he? Especially after the YED killed John. That would mean his father would have died then and there, which would also mean that he and Sam would never have existed.

                              I loved the scene in the car with Dean and Castiel. Literally the 'angel on your shoulder'. Castiel knew that Dean wasn't going to change anything, yet he acted as his conscience reminding him that if he killed the YED in this time, he would never become a hunter and all the people that he saved would die. That was a great scene and IMO what Angels really do, only invisibly....

                              The Impala.... Oh, what an awesome scene. So, was Dean always the one who convinced his dad to buy his baby, or would John have bought it anyway without his son's help? Oh how the brain tangles....

                              To be continued......ugh, I cannot WAIT for the next episode. The episode description for it is:
                              Spoiler:
                              Supernatural
                              Metamorphosis (New) 9:00 PM, 1 hr
                              Thu 10/09/2008
                              WPCW 19
                              Sci-Fi/Other
                              TVPG, English, 2008

                              Sam and Dean come across a confused and clueless family man infected with a disease that transforms him from human to a flesh-eating monster, and the brothers argue over whether they should kill him or try to reason with him.
                              sigpic

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Llywela View Post
                                If this was genuine history, and not some kind of alternate reality (or dream) created by Castiel for Dean to experience...well, either Mary's spirit or the YED might have recognised Dean. Who knows? If the YED did recognise him, it makes his arrogance all the greater - he never believed Dean was a threat to him in any way, and paid the price for that.

                                There would be no reason for Dean in S1 to know about the Colt, though - it was having learned about it then that made him able to go back and retrieve it now. And he told Elkins where it would be, so presumably Elkins would have reclaimed it long before John ever set out on his path as a hunter.

                                Confused yet?
                                After re-watching the episode I think it seems this was just an alternate reality that Castiel created for Dean to find out the truth about YED's end game. Castiel said something about destiny. So no matter what- Mary would still ended up dying at the hands of the YED. The YED would have killed John and Mary would still have made that deal. Oh! And John would have picked the Impala intead of the van. That's my thinking.
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                                • #17
                                  Holy! The show ups its ante considerably this season! In The Beginning draws the mytharc together in a fashion that leaves me stunned and breathless. Jeremy Carver wrote an excellent script and once again proved to be the most valuable addition to the writer’s staff in a very long while. S4 so far just defines new standards for this show and even this far into the story, Supernatural still manages to surprise me! My show just rocks!

                                  First off, I was wary when I read about the episode, not because of the content itself, but because I knew that Sam would have next to no part in this episode and I usually dislike it if the boys are separated or if one of them is sidelined. This is especially true for Sam, since I feel that Sam’s side of the story has been neglected for quite a while now and we don’t get the kind of insight the character deserves. After watching In The Beginning though, I think that not only the plot development was worth Sam’s absence, in the end the whole episode turned out to be about Sam after all and all my objections were blown away by the way this episode managed to tie up loose ends and reflect back on all the seasons that came before.

                                  S4 so far focuses on the mytharc and the Winchesters and I like that. Not that I don’t enjoy a good case file, but since S3 had to cut all storylines apart from Dean’s deal, I am glad that they deliver the missing puzzle pieces so early in the new season instead of dragging it out. The gravity of the events Sam and Dean went through and the new mythology developments easily justify a deviation from their usual episode pattern of one mytharc episode followed by 4-5 standalones. I love how much direction, energy and mystery the new season displays so far and I hope that they can maintain that. Kripke stated that S3 was a transitional season and he admitted that the writing lacked a bit of focus. This year though they seem to be back to their top form; I haven’t been this excited about a season in a while.

                                  Dean: “Oh, I care, I care a lot, but these are my parents. I’m not gonna let them die again. I can’t. Not if I can stop it!”

                                  Dean’s reunion with his parents and grandparents was an absolute joy to watch. I loved the little moments in his encounter with John: For example, just last episode Dean mentioned they should visit the Star Trek experience and here we learn that it was John who was the Star Trek fan, showing another interest that Dean shared with his father. The scene where Dean convinced John to buy the Impala instead of the van Mary wanted was a wonderful touch as well. Dean’s wonderment at experiencing his father as the na?ve civilian, the sweet kid next door with no other ambitions than to build a family and a home of his own, was amusing and sad at the same time. To see John so innocent here, makes his later development into the revenge driven, withdrawn and mistrusting drill sergeant all the more tragic. Especially since meeting the Campbells just again drove the point home that it is possible for hunters to have a steady home base as a family, with all the domestic and social benefits and still pursue a hunting career.

                                  As so often it is Dean’s interaction with Mary though, that touched me the most. His heartbroken expression when Mary confesses that she wants out of the life as a hunter, that she hates the thought of her children being raised like herself and Dean’s desperate attempt to warn his mother about the fateful night that will change all of their lives, were heart-wrenching. Jensen again knocked these emotional scenes out of the park. To see Mary make a demonic deal for his father’s life, just like he did for his brother, must have hit Dean hard. He knows first hand how grief and desperation can drive a person to make a rash decision like that and still, I wonder if witnessing his mother’s deal affected Dean’s opinion of her. I guess only time will tell.

                                  Dean’s conversation with Castiel in the car was a beautiful reversal of his one-sided conversation with (dead) John in What Is and What Should Never be. Back then Dean chose to give up personal happiness and the safety of his family for the greater good, but since then he lost everything he had left, his brother, his life, his soul, and he is done sacrificing his family for the well-being of others. We know he does care deeply about the people he saved, but here he seemingly has the opportunity to change the course of the lives of the people he cares about the most and he seizes it. This decision is especially interesting as it comes just after Dean was faced with the more negative consequences of his life as a hunter last episode and I wouldn’t be surprised if his feelings of guilt towards the people he couldn’t save played a role in his decision making here.

                                  Mary: “I wanna get out. This job, this life, I hate it. I want a family. I want to be safe. You know the worst thing I can think of, the very worst thing? Is for my children to be raised into this, like I was.”

                                  I have to admit that I didn’t see it coming at all that Mary was a hunter, raised in a family of hunters, and that plot twist was utterly awesome. I adore how Mary mirrored Sam completely in her wish to flee into normalcy for the illusion of safety. While Sam took refuge at Stanford and in his relationship with Jessica, Mary tried to escape into her marriage with John but in the end their unwillingness to face reality hurt the people around them. Mary refused to tell John the truth about herself, thus denying them the opportunity to be prepared when the YED came to collect his debt. Sam didn’t tell Jessica the truth about himself and ignored his nightmares, also wasting any opportunity to prevent what happened.

                                  I also love that Sam’s question to Dean in the Pilot “You think Mom would have wanted that (life) for us?” turned out to be entirely accurate in its assessment. Mary’s abhorrence at the thought of her children being raised as hunters was heart-breaking in the light of the events of the first three seasons. It’s an immense tragedy that by making the deal for John’s life, she achieved the very thing she feared the most. She unknowingly sacrificed the future of her unborn child for her own happiness, thus starting the vicious circle of deals in her family and that’s an extremely fitting twist in the Winchester saga. Now her apology to Sam in Home makes perfect sense and I am incredibly pleased that the show managed to tie up these loose end so satisfyingly.

                                  It has to be said though, that if Dean hadn’t mentioned Liddy Walsh to Samuel, Mary and her father would have never been at her house, trying to save her and the YED might have never noticed Mary and targeted her and her family. That by trying to save his family Dean inadvertently caused the very events that would lead to Mary’s deal is an utterly devastating thought though. Of course it’s entirely possible that the YED would have targeted Mary no matter if Dean interfered or not, as Castiel stated, all roads lead to the same destination, still if the time travel was a genuine event it is possible that sending back Dean in order to show him the truth may be the very thing that sealed the Winchester’s fate.

                                  Dean: “So these deals you’re making, you don’t want those people’s souls?”
                                  YED: ”No, I just want their children. I’m here to choose the perfect parents, like your mommy. (…) So far she’s my favourite!”


                                  The YED was back and once again I realised how much I miss him. His menacing presence, his sarcasm, the sadistic streak; he was the most memorable villain in the show and so far Lilith just pales in comparison. The YED’s unique persona obviously inspires the actors as well, since just like Jeffrey Dean Morgan or Fredric Lehne, Mitch Pileggi visibly stepped up his game when he impersonated the YED. His exchange with Dean was excellent, creepy and intense, very reminiscent of Devil’s Trap. I love how easily recognisable the YED is, no matter who plays him.

                                  So far most of the new information about the YED’s plans ties in with the previous seasons. He makes deals with young people, tempting them into giving him permission to enter their houses, 10 years from the day the deal was made, in order to be able to exact his blood ritual on their infants. The fact that he needs to be invited into a house is interesting and explains why he interacted with his psychic kids in dreams rather than in person. Since we have seen possessed people enter houses without problems, it stands to reason that only in their pure form demons are denied that possibility, which would mean that the body the YED used in the Pilot or Salvation was indeed a materialization of the YED himself, rather than a possession. That would also explain why he simply dissolved when Sam shot at him in Salvation, while Dean was able to kill him when he possessed the janitor. It’s possible that they are only vulnerable to the Colt when trapped inside a person.

                                  Another interesting fact was that the YED showed no fear or surprise about the obvious interference of angels with the timeline. I guess he either concluded from that, that his plans in the future were a success, bringing forth the heavenly armies as a result or he is indeed evenly matched to angels in power and doesn’t fear them out of arrogance. In any case his indifference towards the angelic assistance for Dean stood in stark contrast to the reactions of the standard demons we saw so far.

                                  There are only two minor problem with the YED’s story I can make out so far. Firstly, the YED stated that he can't bring people back from the dead in In My Time Of Dying. That was directly contradicted here. Secondly, in Salvation it was implied that the YED was dormant between exacting the blood ritual and the time the psychic kids came of age, which is why John never picked up his trail before 2005. Now we learn that he was active after all, closing the deals for every new generation of psychic kids, so theoretically there should have been omens of his presence for example in 1996, when the YED made the deal with Rosie’s mother (and presumably others). If John checked on everyone who ever may have come in contact with the YED and even backtracked the signs to 1973, why didn’t he notice these signs for later years?

                                  It would also be interesting to know when exactly John did all that research. Was that part of what he did while he was vanished and did he add those pages to his journal after he reunited with his sons? After all Sam and Dean had the journal with them and I would expect that they would have noticed that list if it had been in there. So, these details seem a bit shaky to me, but it’s nothing I can’t rationalise away by John’s penchant for keeping secrets or keeping his sons on a strict need to know basis.

                                  Anyway, the new information opens up the question again as to what exactly the YED’s endgame was and if Lilith plans tie in with them at all. If the YED’s plans were the same as Lilith’s, wouldn’t the angels know about it? Why did all of Mary’s friends have to die in order to cover the YED’s plans? What kind of threat did they pose? There are still a lot of question marks but one thing is clear, the human general was a crucial element in the YED’s endgame and I am curious to see how Sam’s latest actions may or may not play into his plans.

                                  Castiel: “Your brother is headed down a dangerous road, Dean. We’re not sure where it leads. So stop it, or we will!”

                                  As already predicted after Lazarus Rising the sole purpose for Dean being returned from hell with angelic assistance lies in preventing Sam’s path towards perdition. That’s why it had to be Dean and nobody else, since he is the only person who has the power to reach his brother. I love how this plotline directs back to S2, pushing Dean’s mission to either save Sam or he might need to be killed to another level. I have to wonder though, that if destiny can’t be changed, why Castiel even offers Dean the possibility to save Sam from the path he has chosen at the moment? If all roads lead to the same destination it should make no difference if Dean interferes or not, Sam would end up wherever he is meant to be, no matter what Dean does.

                                  So far the show has always made a point in emphasising that Sam and Dean’s choices control their fate, that their destiny is not written in stone. Castiel’s own words ”You have to stop it!”, which by the way were wonderfully ambiguous, since he didn’t mean the past, but the future, indicate that Dean does indeed have a chance to save his brother and that Sam does have a choice. So either Castiel’s statement about destiny was simply an attempt to reconcile Dean with his failure to save his parents or Castiel tries to manipulate Dean here. Of course it could be just an inconsistency but I reserve judgment on that for when we know more.

                                  Castiel: “Time is fluid, Dean. It’s not easy, but we can bend it on occasion.”

                                  In the end a couple of words about the time travel issue. Time travel is always a little mind-bending and tends to either cause paradoxes or general confusion about the events of a timeline. As I see it, there are three possibilities how the time travel aspect of In The Beginning played out:
                                  1. Time is unchangeable. Dean did indeed travel back in time but his presence has always been part of the timeline. That arises the question as to why Mary didn’t heed Dean’s warning or why the YED didn’t consider Dean a threat to his plans. I think these questions are easily answered within the characterisations of Mary and the YED: Since Mary desperately wished to leave the life of a hunter behind, she buried everything tied to her past and embraced ‘normalcy’ whole-heartedly. In the process Dean’s warning became a distant memory, something she more or less deliberately banned from her mind, not unlike how Sam ignored his death dreams about Jessica, so he could maintain his illusion of normal and safe. As for the YED, he has always been depicted as extremely arrogant, as someone who didn’t consider humans a threat, as his interaction with John or Jake clearly show. It’s totally in character for him to dismiss Dean’s threat as empty; in the end his arrogance was the downfall of the YED.

                                  2. Time is changeable. The timeline we saw up to the point before Dean travels back in time was how the ‘original’ events played out and when Dean travelled back, his presence changed the timeline. While we are not privy to how exactly the events between 1973 and 2008 may have been altered, we can conclude from the fact that Dean returns to a (from his perspective) unchanged present, that his actions in the past had no substantial impact on the main events of his life up to this point. Details may have changed, but the end result stayed the same, as Castiel said, all roads lead to the same destination.

                                  3. The third option would be that Dean did not really travel back in time, instead Castiel created an artificial replay of the events in the past in order to show Dean the truth. Either he created an alternative reality like the Trickster did for Sam in Mystery Spot or he showed him a high definition instant replay, like the YED did in All Hell Breaks Loose Pt.1, only with the added possibility to interact or the events played out in Dean’s head, like the djinn induced fantasy in What Is and What Should Never Be. In either case, obviously his actions didn’t interfere with time at all in this instance.
                                  So, however the show wants us to interpret the time travel aspect of the episode, I think it’s always within the limits of reason that the present remains unchanged for Dean.

                                  What else was noteworthy?
                                  Dean’s habit of talking to himself when he is alone will never be not adorable and it’s even more endearing when he is talking to Sam in his absence. I just love that his need to share his experiences with Sam is so ingrained in him by now, that he just can’t help himself. Somehow this makes Dean’s trust that his brother is tearing everything apart in the future in order to get Dean back and Castiel’s reply that Sam isn’t looking for him even more heart-breaking.

                                  Talking of: Sam’s new habit to just sneak out on his brother and follow his own ambitions in secrecy terrifies me. Sam’s whole demeanour in the short scene in the beginning screamed determination and satisfaction about what he was about to do. It makes me wonder if he actually still wants to stay with his brother or if it is just a sense of duty that keeps him at Dean’s side. Although the last episode showed that he still feels the brotherly connection to Dean, his need for companionship with him might by-and-by be overpowered by his need to explore his powers. Sam and Dean’s confrontation in the next episode will most certainly be explosive.

                                  I totally love that we revisited Daniel Elkins and the Colt. Another S1 reference that was logically incorporated in the plot. I really admire that Carver, who is relatively new on the writing staff, obviously did his homework!

                                  That Sam and Dean were named after Mary's dead parents was a lovely touch and Dean's 'you got to be kidding me' expression when he realised he was named after his grandmother was absolutely priceless.

                                  In conclusion: In The Beginning was probably the most important mytharc episode to date and a near flawless one at that. It completely infuses the earlier seasons with new layers of meaning and while I am sure that Kripke needed to rearrange plotlines and details in the overall story, I think it's stunning that the show managed to create this level of continuity and consistency from the Pilot on. I can’t wait for the next episode and see how it all plays out!
                                  Last edited by galathea; 05-10-08, 03:30 PM.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by galathea View Post
                                    Another interesting fact was that the YED showed no fear or surprise about the obvious interference of angels with the timeline. I guess he either concluded from that, that his plans in the future were a success, bringing forth the heavenly armies as a result or he is indeed evenly matched to angels in power and doesn't fear them out of arrogance. In any case his indifference towards the angelic assistance for Dean stood in stark contrast to the reactions of the standard demons we saw so far.
                                    See, I find that in keeping with the character of any demon that he would show pride and arrogance in the face of angels or even God himself. It was the sin of pride, afterall, that was Lucifer's downfall.
                                    Castiel: "Your brother is headed down a dangerous road, Dean. We're not sure where it leads. So stop it, or we will!"

                                    As already predicted after Lazarus Rising the sole purpose for Dean being returned from hell with angelic assistance lies in preventing Sam's path towards perdition. That's why it had to be Dean and nobody else, since he is the only person who has the power to reach his brother. I love how this plotline directs back to S2, pushing Dean's mission to either save Sam or he might need to be killed to another level. I have to wonder though, that if destiny can't be changed, why Castiel even offers Dean the possibility to save Sam from the path he has chosen at the moment? If all roads lead to the same destination it should make no difference if Dean interferes or not, Sam would end up wherever he is meant to be, no matter what Dean does.

                                    So far the show has always made a point in emphasising that Sam and Dean's choices control their fate, that their destiny is not written in stone. Castiel's own words "You have to stop it!", which by the way were wonderfully ambiguous, since he didn't mean the past, but the future, indicate that Dean does indeed have a chance to save his brother and that Sam does have a choice. So either Castiel's statement about destiny was simply an attempt to reconcile Dean with his failure to save his parents or Castiel tries to manipulate Dean here. Of course it could be just an inconsistency but I reserve judgment on that for when we know more.
                                    See, I took Castiel's statement that destiny cannot be changed to be referring to what has all ready happened in the past, that they cannot go BACK and change what other people's free will choices have brought about. That's why Dean was not able to affect any changes with his parents and grandparents fates. But as far as the present and future goes, free will *is* the basis of the Supernatural mytharc. That's why Dean is here now, to help Sam make better choices of his own free will. That's just how I understood it.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by LRae12 View Post
                                      See, I find that in keeping with the character of any demon that he would show pride and arrogance in the face of angels or even God himself. It was the sin of pride, afterall, that was Lucifer's downfall.
                                      Sure, but so far every demon we saw was terrified by the appearance of angels. Could very well be though that the YED was already around 2000 years ago when angels roamed earth the last time and has first hand experience with them.

                                      Originally posted by LRae12 View Post
                                      See, I took Castiel's statement that destiny cannot be changed to be referring to what has all ready happened in the past, that they cannot go BACK and change what other people's free will choices have brought about. That's why Dean was not able to affect any changes with his parents and grandparents fates. But as far as the present and future goes, free will *is* the basis of the Supernatural mytharc. That's why Dean is here now, to help Sam make better choices of his own free will. That's just how I understood it.
                                      I thought about that as well, but usually destiny is a term that refers to the whole of a person's story, past and future alike. It's about the life being directed towards a certain, inevitable goal. So to just restrict it to the past didn't sit well with me.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Llywela View Post
                                        If this was genuine history, and not some kind of alternate reality (or dream) created by Castiel for Dean to experience...well, either Mary's spirit or the YED might have recognised Dean. Who knows? If the YED did recognise him, it makes his arrogance all the greater - he never believed Dean was a threat to him in any way, and paid the price for that.

                                        There would be no reason for Dean in S1 to know about the Colt, though - it was having learned about it then that made him able to go back and retrieve it now. And he told Elkins where it would be, so presumably Elkins would have reclaimed it long before John ever set out on his path as a hunter.

                                        Confused yet?
                                        Well, Azazal did know that Dean was the son of Mary and John. So, seeing him in the future/present, wouldn't have really been much of a surprise. Plus, if you knew someone was going to kill you and knew that he didn't yet, it's not something you'd bring up, would it?

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