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  • Season Four - hopes and dreams

    So, season three ended on one hell of a cliffhanger, and hiatus feels horribly, impossibly long right now. We have a thread dedicated to spoilers, but not everyone among us wants to be spoiled about what is going to happen. What we do want, perhaps, is to speculate to our hearts content about what we would like to see in season four, in the wake of that awful climax to the season.

    Personally, I'd love to see the brothers taking a bit of time to heal after everything they've been through. How likely this might be is another matter entirely! They are going to have an awful lot to work through, both individually and together. But I can dream!

    What about everyone else - what do you want to see in season four?


  • #2
    Like Jo, I want first and foremost a time of healing for Sam and Dean. I expect post-hell traumatized Dean to go through various stages of coping, from violence, over anxiety to shutting down completely and that will burden the relationship between the boys immensely. Add to that, that Sam probably finally wants to try and explore his psychic abilities, which would lead to another point of argument between the boys.

    So, I really want them to find some sort of even footing by midseason 4 and facing whatever is coming their way as a unity again, after they were partially separated by secrets, promises, and sacrifices over 2 seasons. We had Sam’s destiny in S2 and Dean’s deal in S3 as main driving forces for the brother plots and I would like to see them to come to terms with the immense interpersonal tragedies they had to shoulder, to heal and move on together.

    Other things I like to see in S4 are ...

    a) There are some of Sam’s character moments that haven’t been addressed last season and I really want the show to deal with that more. How does Sam feel about having been dead? Does he feel different? He was so focused on Dean’s deal that we didn’t get to know anything about his personal struggle with what happened to him. He expressed he thinks he needed to be more like Dean, I want that to be expanded upon as well. Overall I feel that the show deals with the fallout to important Sam moments less thorough than with Dean’s.

    b) I really hope for an exploration of the Winchester family background and a reveal of the Mary mystery. They kept us waiting for that from S1 'Home' on now, only throwing us little bones here and there and I want that to become more of a focus this season.

    c) I’m a sucker for flashbacks and I loved to see Ridge Canipe and Colin Ford as young Sam and Dean in S3 and I hope they find a way to give us another episode that deals with events in the past. Maybe Sam’s or Dean’s first hunt or dealing with the CPS or something that involves Pastor Jim or a younger Bobby!

    d) I’d like for Sam and Dean to find a bigger support group. So far only Bobby provides any kind of emotional as well as practical backup for the boys. It would be nice if they developed a bigger network to turn to in cases of need. These characters wouldn’t have to be in a season more than twice and mentioned here and there, to just give a sense of continuity. That said, I’d like to see Ellen pop up again as well.

    e) I really want to see an episode or a S4 subplot dedicated to Steve Wandell’s daughter hunting Sam down and how the brothers deal with that dilemma. I always thought that the show neglected to explore the emotional fallout for Sam and the further consequences from 'Born Under A Bad Sign' and I would like to see that redeemed. And talking about consequences: I'd like to see the Croatoan virus and Sam's immunity to it addressed at some point.

    f) Last but not least, I would die for a 'domestic' episode. A simple 'A Day In The Life of Sam and Dean' episode, with the boys doing laundry, hustle for money, doing something silly like visit a tourist attraction or a fair, stocking up holy water, ammo and weapons, having a late-night feature marathon, with Dean driving Sam nuts by commenting on the movies all the time ... that kind of stuff. It would be my happy place forever ...
    Last edited by galathea; 18-06-08, 01:49 PM.

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    • #3
      I don't want to be repeato-girl here but I want a lot of what Llywela and Galathea have mentioned too. In addition though:-

      I would like to see a flashback of the John and Sam arguement when he left to go to college, to see them at they're most estranged as a counterpoint to how alike they've become now, how acceptive Sam is of the situation he so desperately wanted out of then.

      Ellen and Jo to return in some capacity. Jo's storyline was completely dropped after BUABS and we never found out what happened to her - as long as they keep the love story out of it, I would love to see what she's become since the Devil's Gate opened.

      Some more background on Ruby, or at least a bit more Ruby in general! I felt her character was used just right in S3 (unlike Bela, but we all know that!) but she was hinting at more to come in the S3 finale "What you don't know about me could fill a book", and I'd like to know more too. I want to read that book!

      Dean to get an emotional connection with someone female who isn't Jo or Cassie, for a short period of time the way "Heart" or "Provenance" did for Sam, and to have it be part of the storytelling, not forced (going back to Jo and Cassie again!). I want to see Dean really care for someone who isn't a member of his own family!

      More Bobby!

      More jobs taking place in country backwaters. It makes it scarier somehow when they take on a job in a wooded or secluded area, almost as if it could be real, as most of have an innate fear of being lost in the woods, and it plays on that. Also, the cinematography through trees and empty roads is prettier!

      Things I don't want to see:-

      More hunters like we saw in TMS. I don't mind the return of Rufus, because he seemed interesting, but I didn't like that couple Tamara and whateverhisnamewas - they were too stereotypical.

      The universe expanding too much from the original concept. We've got a war, demons coming out of every orifice and hints at lots of other hunters. The show is about the Winchesters and I wouldn't want to lose that focus, to concentrate on others instead.

      Another convenient Demon killing weapon. The colt and Ruby's knife are enough, and now that the colt's gone - good riddance I say. Let's see the boys use their ingenuity and skill to kill demons.

      An EvilBrother plotline. Whereas there is an amount of desire to see how they would do it and what Jared and Jenson could make of it work, it would take away from what is most attractive about the show - the brotherly bond.

      Erm... I think that's all for the moment!
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      • #4
        Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
        I would like to see a flashback of the John and Sam arguement when he left to go to college, to see them at they're most estranged as a counterpoint to how alike they've become now, how acceptive Sam is of the situation he so desperately wanted out of then.
        I'm not sure how possible that would be, just in terms of how much Jared has matured in the last few years - back in season one he still looked young enough to play his 18 year old self if need be, but not any more! Also, I kind of think that storyline has been played out without flashbacks, and both Sam and the show have moved on from the Stanford situation.

        Ellen and Jo to return in some capacity. Jo's storyline was completely dropped after BUABS and we never found out what happened to her - as long as they keep the love story out of it, I would love to see what she's become since the Devil's Gate opened.
        YES! I know the writers felt rather burned by the Roadhouse crew in season two, but I don't think dropping them completely was ever the right way to handle the situation - it creates all kinds of weird breaks within the integrity of the show to have recurring characters who exist only for one season and then vanish without trace. I really feel that they should have kept faith with Ellen and Jo, even if they only appeared once in season three, or even if they were only referred to in passing. Storylines and availability might have prevented them making an appearance in the shortened season, but having one or other of them mentioned - maybe as a contact called for info on a case, or maybe Jo having the maturity to pass on a case she knew she couldn't handle alone - would have cemented them as an ongoing part of the brothers' lives without being ever-present in any way. They are both valuable friends and contacts, in their own way, and the brothers need to hang onto every one of those that they can. And wouldn't it have been great to re-visit Jo in the wake of BUABS and have her and Sam deal with what happened there!

        Some more background on Ruby, or at least a bit more Ruby in general! I felt her character was used just right in S3 (unlike Bela, but we all know that!) but she was hinting at more to come in the S3 finale "What you don't know about me could fill a book", and I'd like to know more too. I want to read that book!
        There is definitely more of Ruby's story still to be told. I'm curious to know how she is able to return to her old body from wherever Lilith sent her in the finale! It looked pretty dead, but I suppose it depends where she is sent and how fast she can get back. We still know next to nothing about her true intentions toward Sam or her overall ambitions.

        Dean to get an emotional connection with someone female who isn't Jo or Cassie, for a short period of time the way "Heart" or "Provenance" did for Sam, and to have it be part of the storytelling, not forced (going back to Jo and Cassie again!). I want to see Dean really care for someone who isn't a member of his own family!

        More Bobby!
        Hee. Well, Bobby is someone Dean cares about deeply who isn't a member of his own family. It is true, though, that Dean is very reluctant to let anyone into his very tight inner circle. I can't see that changing in the short term, given his current situation, though!

        The universe expanding too much from the original concept. We've got a war, demons coming out of every orifice and hints at lots of other hunters. The show is about the Winchesters and I wouldn't want to lose that focus, to concentrate on others instead.
        It's true - the show has changed enormously when you look back to season one. The universe has become much broader and the scope of the story being told much bigger. But I agree that I wouldn't want to see it getting too big. The structure of the show works much better for smaller, tighter stories than for really grand, sweeping, epic encounters.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          I would like to see a flashback of the John and Sam arguement when he left to go to college, to see them at they're most estranged as a counterpoint to how alike they've become now, how acceptive Sam is of the situation he so desperately wanted out of then.
          God, I want that flashback like forever, but with JDM's busy shooting schedule I doubt we will ever see that happen. /sigh

          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          Ellen and Jo to return in some capacity. Jo's storyline was completely dropped after BUABS and we never found out what happened to her - as long as they keep the love story out of it, I would love to see what she's become since the Devil's Gate opened.
          Agreed, but I know it is very unlikely they will bring Jo in for any episodes, because Alona is busy in other projects and they feel the character has no place in the story anymore, but at least I'd like them to address the Jo situation via Ellen. It would be easy to just insert her in a dialogue scene between the boys and Ellen.

          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          Things I don't want to see:-

          The universe expanding too much from the original concept. We've got a war, demons coming out of every orifice and hints at lots of other hunters. The show is about the Winchesters and I wouldn't want to lose that focus, to concentrate on others instead.
          Absolutely! Luckily I think the low budget plays in our favor here. A re-focus on Sam and Dean will be prominent in S4, with the war taking place even more underground than in S3 for budget reasons. To produce character heavy episodes is usually cheaper and it's what we all like to see most anyways and Kripke and Co are very aware of that.

          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          Another convenient Demon killing weapon. The colt and Ruby's knife are enough, and now that the colt's gone - good riddance I say. Let's see the boys use their ingenuity and skill to kill demons.
          Amen! I was really annoyed when they brought the Colt back and so very happy when it was out of the picture again. I loved how Sam and Dean were forced into spontaneous creativity in Jus In Bello and how well it worked, plotwise. To find more creative ways for dealing with demons would be absolutely something I want to see, not to mention that it would probably spare some lifes.

          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
          An EvilBrother plotline. Whereas there is an amount of desire to see how they would do it and what Jared and Jenson could make of it work, it would take away from what is most attractive about the show - the brotherly bond.
          And again I wholeheartedly agree! I am dreading the evil!brother plotline forever now and I am so happy that the writers didn't go there. I can live with a darker version of the boys for a while, like Dean in Bloodlust or Sam in Mystery Spot, especially when it is believably psychololgically motivated, but an outright evil version of any of the brothers would effectively disrupt the core of the show for me and I don't want that.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
            Some more background on Ruby, or at least a bit more Ruby in general! I felt her character was used just right in S3 (unlike Bela, but we all know that!) but she was hinting at more to come in the S3 finale "What you don't know about me could fill a book", and I'd like to know more too. I want to read that book!
            Oh, same here! At first, I was a little wary of Ruby's character in "The Magnificent Seven" but by the second episode, I was hooked. Her addition to the cast was, in my opinion, boldly and brilliantly done. I definitely want to see her stick around in season 4 and to get more a backstory on her character as well. Even if it's just in the same way that 3.09 advanced her character, I'll be happy. I just don't want her character to be dropped like Jo was.

            Speaking of Jo...I, too, would like to see Alona Tal pop up for an episode - perhaps the season premier or another early episode. I don't need much from her character but I do want to see what she's been up to since we last saw her - especially since so much has happened in the grander scheme of things.

            Ellen is another character who want to make another appearance but I actually want her to be recurring again - much like she was in the early episodes of season 2. I enjoyed how she was more of an outlet for information than an ally on the battlefield like Bobby is (though Bobby does help with the research, too, obviously but I enjoy his character much more when he's interacting with the boys face-to-face and fighting alongside them).

            Which brings me to my yearning for more Bobby. Seriously. They need to just make him a recurring regular like Katie Cassidy (Ruby) is. It's awfully appropriate and could really - and finally - do the character some justice. Yes, he was used a lot in season 3 but I don't feel like he was used enough. I still want more backstory on his character - and his relationship with John Winchester - and I want to see him help Sam cope with Dean's death in the early episode(s).

            Speaking of John Winchester (yes, I'm the Queen of Segues): I want him back for an episode or two. I want to see more flashbacks with his character - perhaps to advance the Mary storyline (and oh my god, I just made a religious connection...Mary, the mother of Jesus...Mary, the mother of Sam...Eh? Ehhh? Ok, back to the point...) or to show us his relationship with Bobby or, more importantly, with Ellen (since I'm one of the fans who feels like there was more to their relationship than what was given to us). I would also like to see him make a real appearance. Now, I'm not saying to ressurect him (that'd be bad) but I feel like his story with the boys isn't done yet and that they still have much more to deal with before the series ends.

            Like galathea said before, I also really want them to pick up past storylines that have been left open ended - like the Croatoan Virus and the aftermath of "Born Under a Bad Sign." And, to add to the discussion about stories I'd like to see, I want more suspenseful and intense episodes like "Croatoan" or "Nightshifter" or "Jus in Bello." Those stories and episodes tend to be my favorites and the ones that I always remember and it also leads to some amazing opportunites for the writers AND the actors to have fun.

            ciderdrinker mentioned the idea of having Dean feel an emotional connection with a female character like Sam did with Madison in "Heart." I'd also like for this to happen but I'd want it to be in the same vein as "Sin City" - where he's stuck in a situation with this female character and they're basically just having a discussion about an interesting, compelling topic.

            Also, I want to see more strong female characters. I know that season 3 didn't always portray women as weak, helpless people who need the boys to resuce them but I do feel like that's how they were shown in the first two seasons. In season 4, I want to see the Women of the Week ( ) help the boys out more instead of just being the people who need to be carried away from the train tracks. Which also leads me to my wanting more male characters in the episodice storylines. It's not very often that men are prominently featured as needing rescuing (though there are several instances where they are, I don't deny that at all). I just think that it'd be nice for the writers to really mix it up more and give us women viewers some nice, one-shot hot things to look at even now and then since they always give the men something hot to look at (though, we do have Jensen and Jared to stare at every single week... ).

            There are, however, a few things that I don't want to see next season or that I want to see very little of.

            1.) I'm one of the rare fans that actually get more enjoyment from the boys being separated or when they're on opposing sides of an issue (examples: Ruby - to trust her or not to trust her? - or how to save Dean from his deal). I can appreciate the brotherly bond between them, of course (you basically have to in order to watch the show), but that's not an element that really satisfies me. This is why I don't think I'd be able to watch an episode that features little to no action unless it's a comedy episode. So, basically, I don't want the boys to be on the same page for the majority of the season - especially since I think that'd be thoroughly inappropriate since Dean would've just gotten out of Hell and is so totally scarred by that experience.

            2.) Another new recurring regular. In season 3, the writers got really lucky when they introduced Ruby and Bela - one was a hit, the other...well...wasn't (though I loved both of them, personally). With season 4, I think it'd be wise to avoid adding another recurring regular unless it's somebody the viewers are familiar with - like Bobby or Ellen - and if they are pressured into doing so by the CW, then I think they should start the character as a one-shot and, if it's a successful adding, then promoting them to the recurring regular status.

            3.) Sam getting drunk. Jared Padalecki annoys me when he's supposed to be acting like he's drunk. He annoyed me when Dean was drunk in that one episode of "Gilmore Girls" and he really annoyed me when he was drunk in that season 2 episode of "Supernatural." Now, I WOULD like to see Dean get drunk but I have a feeling that he has developed a strong resistance to that...
            Last edited by Heather; 18-06-08, 04:47 PM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Heather View Post
              Speaking of John Winchester (yes, I'm the Queen of Segues): I want him back for an episode or two. I want to see more flashbacks with his character - perhaps to advance the Mary storyline (and oh my god, I just made a religious connection...Mary, the mother of Jesus...Mary, the mother of Sam...Eh? Ehhh? Ok, back to the point...) or to show us his relationship with Bobby or, more importantly, with Ellen (since I'm one of the fans who feels like there was more to their relationship than what was given to us). I would also like to see him make a real appearance. Now, I'm not saying to ressurect him (that'd be bad) but I feel like his story with the boys isn't done yet and that they still have much more to deal with before the series ends.
              There is so much more to tell of their relationship, no doubt, but like Galathea mentioned JDM is seemingly becoming some kind of huge star in his own right, and I doubt he'll be back. Which is a HUGE shame, although great news for JDM!

              I want more suspenseful and intense episodes like "Croatoan" or "Nightshifter" or "Jus in Bello." Those stories and episodes tend to be my favorites and the ones that I always remember and it also leads to some amazing opportunites for the writers AND the actors to have fun.
              Agreed, intense eppys are my favourites too!

              1.) I'm one of the rare fans that actually get more enjoyment from the boys being separated or when they're on opposing sides of an issue (examples: Ruby - to trust her or not to trust her? - or how to save Dean from his deal). I can appreciate the brotherly bond between them, of course (you basically have to in order to watch the show), but that's not an element that really satisfies me. This is why I don't think I'd be able to watch an episode that features little to no action unless it's a comedy episode. So, basically, I don't want the boys to be on the same page for the majority of the season - especially since I think that'd be thoroughly inappropriate since Dean would've just gotten out of Hell and is so totally scarred by that experience.
              That reminds me - what about a proper falling out - name calling and everything? That's what brothers do from time to time and we haven't seen a big showdown between them (not counting Scarecrow, which was a tiff and they both got over it very quickly)

              2.) Another new recurring regular. In season 3, the writers got really lucky when they introduced Ruby and Bela - one was a hit, the other...well...wasn't (though I loved both of them, personally). With season 4, I think it'd be wise to avoid adding another recurring regular unless it's somebody the viewers are familiar with - like Bobby or Ellen - and if they are pressured into doing so by the CW, then I think they should start the character as a one-shot and, if it's a successful adding, then promoting them to the recurring regular status.
              Also agree!

              3.) Now, I WOULD like to see Dean get drunk but I have a feeling that he has developed a strong resistance to that...
              Hee! Drowning his sorrows after coming back from the dead a la Buffy but without the random shagging (although random shagging might work too!)
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Heather View Post
                Speaking of John Winchester (yes, I'm the Queen of Segues): I want him back for an episode or two.
                that's something I'd really like to see....but not so much in flashbacks as in person. Dean's going to be in hell. I know John got out, but where did he go? I'd love for Dean and John to connect on the 'other side' so to speak.

                I know that it's been said that Dean won't be spending a lot of camera time in hell due to budget restraints, but it's something I'd love to see for at least an episode or two. And I hope a LOT of time has passed for him. (Not that I want him to suffer, but just for storyline purposes) It could be like in Btvs that in hell time moves differently - he could be there 100 years where as on earth it might have been only a few months. I think something like THAT would set up a good story arc involving Dean's character and how he can overcome something like that.

                I fairly certain that the brother's relationship will be strained this season, if the writers are any good at their jobs. Especially if Dean's time in hell is very lengthy. That changes a person. Plus, in the groundhog day-like episode we got a glimpse at how Sam would become without Dean around, and frankly I think it's something that should be explored this season. Dark and Broody SAM.

                But also on the hell note, I think I'd like to see Dean having more empathy for the demons. Maybe he will come to have a type of affinity with some types - the more human-still types. Or maybe Dean himself will be part demon, depending on how much time has passed for him in hell. That was foreshadowed in S3, so I think it's something that would be an interesting route to take.

                As for the female characters, I too would like to have more Ruby. And please, oh please do NOT bring Bella back. On the issue of Jo, I'm neutral, if she pops up I'd be pleasantly surprised, but if not, it's no big. But I would like to see Dean get into a real relationship with a woman this season. He deserves some love....

                And obviously I'd love another comedic episode or two. They are usually my favorite, because I'm a comedy-whore!
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heather View Post
                  So, basically, I don't want the boys to be on the same page for the majority of the season - especially since I think that'd be thoroughly inappropriate since Dean would've just gotten out of Hell and is so totally scarred by that experience.
                  ROFL I think S4 will practically have both sides .. the first half of the season, Sam and Dean's relationship will probably be totally disrupted by a post-hell traumatized Dean, then we get a mid-season reconcilliation and a 2nd half of the season where they are on the same page. It's the basic structure of 3 seasons so far, so I guess they will keep that one. At least I hope so ....

                  Originally posted by Heather View Post
                  Another new recurring regular. In season 3, the writers got really lucky when they introduced Ruby and Bela - one was a hit, the other...well...wasn't (though I loved both of them, personally). With season 4, I think it'd be wise to avoid adding another recurring regular unless it's somebody the viewers are familiar with - like Bobby or Ellen - and if they are pressured into doing so by the CW, then I think they should start the character as a one-shot and, if it's a successful adding, then promoting them to the recurring regular status.
                  Again, I think budget restraints will most certainly prevent the introduction of another recurring character. It was one of the many reasons why Bela was written off and it is also one of the reasons why they don't give Jim Beaver a recurring regular status. I really really live in fear that Jim Beaver will be contracted as a lead for another show and has to be written off like Henriksen or Gordon for that very reason. /sigh I too think that for plot and continuity reasons it makes more sense to stick to the characters already introduced and expand on them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LRae12 View Post
                    I know that it's been said that Dean won't be spending a lot of camera time in hell due to budget restraints, but it's something I'd love to see for at least an episode or two. And I hope a LOT of time has passed for him. (Not that I want him to suffer, but just for storyline purposes) It could be like in Btvs that in hell time moves differently - he could be there 100 years where as on earth it might have been only a few months. I think something like THAT would set up a good story arc involving Dean's character and how he can overcome something like that.

                    I fairly certain that the brother's relationship will be strained this season, if the writers are any good at their jobs. Especially if Dean's time in hell is very lengthy. That changes a person. Plus, in the groundhog day-like episode we got a glimpse at how Sam would become without Dean around, and frankly I think it's something that should be explored this season. Dark and Broody SAM.

                    But also on the hell note, I think I'd like to see Dean having more empathy for the demons. Maybe he will come to have a type of affinity with some types - the more human-still types. Or maybe Dean himself will be part demon, depending on how much time has passed for him in hell. That was foreshadowed in S3, so I think it's something that would be an interesting route to take.
                    I'm fairly certain that Dean is not going to come back as a demon, or even part. It takes centuries to burn a human soul away and create a demon - that's centuries in earth time. And Dean is not going to be down there any more than a few months, I would imagine. From his perspective every second will probably feel like eternity, because that is the nature of hell, but it still won't be enough to destroy his humanity. John was still himself after almost a year. What does seem certain is that Dean will be profoundly affected by the experience, regardless of how much or how little he remembers. I would imagine that he will be extremely disoriented on his return, and it is likely that he will suffer from some kind of PTSD - you only have to look up the symptoms of that, especially with regard to prisoners of war, to anticipate an enormous amount of juicy, juicy angst.

                    Especially considering that the longer Sam spends on his own - in real time, experienced by the whole world, rather than something he alone remembers a la Mystery Spot - the harder it will be for him to adjust to his brother's return, as well.

                    But until we know how Dean's return comes about, it is impossible to speculate too deeply about how either brother will react to it.

                    Where Jo is concerned, it always surprises me when the writers say that she no longer has any place in the show, because I'd have felt that once she was out there on the road she would be more useful to them as a character, rather than less. As a rookie hunter there are all kinds of scrapes she could get herself into that would make Dean and Sam incredibly useful contacts for her to cultivate. But none of that seems likely to happen. Ah well.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by galathea View Post
                      Again, I think budget restraints will most certainly prevent the introduction of another recurring character. It was one of the many reasons why Bela was written off and it is also one of the reasons why they don't give Jim Beaver a recurring regular status. I really really live in fear that Jim Beaver will be contracted as a lead for another show and has to be written off like Henriksen or Gordon for that very reason. /sigh I too think that for plot and continuity reasons it makes more sense to stick to the characters already introduced and expand on them.
                      I'm usually very much against budgeting constraints, but this is all good news. Sometimes having severe budget restictions make for tighter and more exciting plotting.

                      I also agree with LRae about the time in hell maybe being longer than normal earth time. If Dean has spent months or years down there whilst only a few weeks have passed for Sam and Bobby that could lead to a much changed Dean. Having an affinity with the other souls who have gone to hell but haven't become demons yet could be very interesting for the brotherly dynamic - having Dean be the sympathetic one and Sam the more ruthless one.

                      I don't want a half demonic Dean though. It would be too similar to Sam's ability storyline.
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                      • #12
                        I am with Jo and Loraine on the demon!Dean thing. It would be redundant because we already have the part-demon Sam storyline, plus Dean was always defined through his humanity and that's essential for the character for me. The background on humans turning demonic in hell in the show so far wouldn't support Dean coming back as a demon either, since it takes centuries. I think the most likely scenario is that he is in hell for a couple of months real time but subjectively it probably felt like an eternity for Dean.

                        Originally posted by LRae12 View Post
                        But I would like to see Dean get into a real relationship with a woman this season. He deserves some love....
                        I doubt that will ever happen on the show. A one-episode fling like Sam in Heart or Provenance maybe, but a real relationship is don't think is possible. Especially not in this season with Dean being traumatized. Remember in the aftermath of John's death Dean lost any drive to connect romantically. With the show playing on the road and centered around the epic story of Sam and Dean I don't think there's place for an ongoing romantic subplot for either of the boys.

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                        • #13
                          Well first and foremost, I want Dean to get out of hell as soon as possible! I can't stand the thought of Dean being tortured in hell for a longer period of time. I'm still undecided whether I want Sam to get Dean out of hell or whether Dean should get out himself (or some other solution).

                          I'd like for Sam's psychic abilities to be deeply explored in s4. I want Sam to learn more about them and not only know about them but also use them. I don't mind Sam flirting with darkness or even going over to the dark side, as long as it is not permanent. I think it would be interesting to see what kind of friction this could produce between the brothers. Imagine the angst and the drama! And I wanna see Jared Padalecki acting his ass off while playing dark Sam, like he has done in BUABS. Of course I don't want a permanent rift between the boys but I think some tension and problems between them would be good, especially because it would make the subsequent making-up all the better. Also, as LRae has said, spending time in hell will change Dean to a certain degree and it's only natural that this will put a strain on the brotherly bonds.

                          Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                          Dean to get an emotional connection with someone female who isn't Jo or Cassie, for a short period of time the way "Heart" or "Provenance" did for Sam, and to have it be part of the storytelling, not forced (going back to Jo and Cassie again!). I want to see Dean really care for someone who isn't a member of his own family!
                          I couldn't agree more! I want Dean to connect with a female character with whom he has great chemistry. The way the show is set up, it will not be something long-term but it would be nice to see the Dean of Route 666 again (even if I dislike Cassie), a Dean who cares about a woman, who opens up to a woman, who lets himself be vulnerable with a woman. I mean, come on, why does Sam get to have all the girls? That's so unfair (especially since Dean is so much better looking and charming)!

                          I also agree with most of you here: we need more background story on Ruby and just more Ruby scenes in general (hopefully, that can be achieved with Bela gone). I wonder if Ruby will end up in hell as well and if she does, if she ends up seeing Dean there. I'd also like for Ruby to continue playing her role as temptress (not in a sexual sense) when it comes to Sam. I want Ruby to challenge Sam, even more so than she has done in season 3.

                          I also wouldn't mind seeing Ellen and Jo again, they can't just be dropped from the storylines. And of course more Bobby, that goes without saying.

                          And yes the Mary mystery finally needs to be addressed (why she knew the YED etc.). I have been waiting since the s2 finale for that mystery to be solved and all we got in s3 were some tidbits of info. The same goes for the Croatoan virus storyline. They finally have to explain to us why Sam was immune to the virus. I have my suspicions but I would like to have them confirmed.

                          I know that Kripke & co. have to deal with budgets cuts but I still hope that we will get several awesome classic rock songs in s4. Especially since Kripke & co. are usually so good at matching a scene with a specific rock song.

                          One thing I would not like to see is more John Winchester scenes. Nothing against JDM, he is a fine actor, but I have never liked John and I feel that the strained relationships between both Dean and John and Sam and John have been explored enough. But maybe that's just me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cori View Post
                            I couldn't agree more! I want Dean to connect with a female character with whom he has great chemistry. The way the show is set up, it will not be something long-term but it would be nice to see the Dean of Route 666 again (even if I dislike Cassie), a Dean who cares about a woman, who opens up to a woman, who lets himself be vulnerable with a woman. I mean, come on, why does Sam get to have all the girls? That's so unfair (especially since Dean is so much better looking and charming)!
                            Hm but we did have that with the Dean and Lisa storyline to an extent in S3. I felt there was a great connection between those two, with Dean opening up to her when he couldn't to Sam. Okay, there was no sex still, it was Dean connecting to a woman. The way he still dreamt about her in DALDOM was a nice continuity for that too.

                            Originally posted by Cori View Post
                            One thing I would not like to see is more John Winchester scenes. Nothing against JDM, he is a fine actor, but I have never liked John and I feel that the strained relationships between both Dean and John and Sam and John have been explored enough. But maybe that's just me.
                            I utterly agree with that. Not even because I am no John fan but more because I feel that the boys moved on from their dependency on John, with both boys having made peace with their fathers flaws while honoring his strengths and are now standing on their own as men. I want especially Dean's character progress from DALDOM being developed farther and finally overcoming his issues that resulted from John's parenting decisions. The story was always meant to be about the boys and not about their father, no matter how fascinating his character may be. I think it is a regression of a kind to go back to the Daddy issues instead of moving forward. I would however not mind to see him in flashback episodes, either with Sam and Dean or with Mary or Ellen.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by galathea View Post
                              Hm but we did have that with the Dean and Lisa storyline to an extent in S3. I felt there was a great connection between those two, with Dean opening up to her when he couldn't to Sam. Okay, there was no sex still, it was Dean connecting to a woman. The way he still dreamt about her in DALDOM was a nice continuity for that too.
                              That was a step into the right direction (no wonder I liked TKAA so much!) but I'm greedy, I want more. And I'm not just talking about sex scenes here (although I of course would not turn those down). I want that connection to last for a few episodes and I want Dean to be happy while he is with the woman (well as happy as he can be after coming back from hell ), not all nostalgic and wistful as he was with Lisa. I want him to forget his problems for a while and truly enjoy the moment with that female character. I'm just a sucker for vulnerable Dean and while I do love it when he opens up to Sam, I also love it when he opens up to other characters, especially female ones. I'm a total girl that way!

                              I utterly agree with that. Not even because I am no John fan but more because I feel that the boys moved on from their dependency on John, with both boys having made peace with their fathers flaws while honoring his strengths and are now standing on their own as men. I want especially Dean's character progress from DALDOM being developed farther and finally overcoming his issues that resulted from John's parenting decisions. The story was always meant to be about the boys and not about their father, no matter how fascinating his character may be. I think it is a regression of a kind to go back to the Daddy issues instead of moving forward. I would however not mind to see him in flashback episodes, either with Sam and Dean or with Mary or Ellen.
                              Glad you agree and perfectly put, it would indeed be a regression. If we do get to see John in flashback episodes, I just hope it won't be in scenes where he commands the boys around and/or puts them (especially Dean) down. Because I have had about as much of such scenes as I can take. I wouldn't mind a reconciliatory scene such as the one we saw in the s2 finale though.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Cori View Post
                                That was a step into the right direction (no wonder I liked TKAA so much!) but I'm greedy, I want more. And I'm not just talking about sex scenes here (although I of course would not turn those down). I want that connection to last for a few episodes and I want Dean to be happy while he is with the woman (well as happy as he can be after coming back from hell ), not all nostalgic and wistful as he was with Lisa. I want him to forget his problems for a while and truly enjoy the moment with that female character. I'm just a sucker for vulnerable Dean and while I do love it when he opens up to Sam, I also love it when he opens up to other characters, especially female ones. I'm a total girl that way!
                                LOL well, as I said, I don't really think that the structure of the show allows for a romantic subplot over a couple of episodes for either of the boys. With the many, many plotlines going on at the moment, it would be very difficult to squeeze that in, not to mention that I doubt that Dean would be up for any kind of happy romance, post-hell traumatized or would have the mind for a relationship as long as the demon-war and Sam's destiny still hang in the balance. I guess I just don't think it is the time in their lives to become seriously involved and while I do enjoy Dean connecting to women or even more children, I am glad it's done in one-shot episodes only, so it doesn't distract from the brother's journey.

                                Originally posted by Cori View Post
                                Glad you agree and perfectly put, it would indeed be a regression. If we do get to see John in flashback episodes, I just hope it won't be in scenes where he commands the boys around and/or puts them (especially Dean) down. Because I have had about as much of such scenes as I can take. I wouldn't mind a reconciliatory scene such as the one we saw in the s2 finale though.
                                Yeah, I don't need another flashback with John being the absent and/or emotionally repressed father, I think that was explored enough in the show, it wouldn't really add another level to the character or his relationship with the boys. I actually would prefer a flashback with either Mary or Ellen, exploring their backstory more.

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                                • #17
                                  So I was watching "Home" last night, and I remebered how much I'd like to see Missouri again! She was such a well-constructed character and at the end she says to the boys "Don't be a stranger" and Dean says "We won't" - what a little liar! It was the first episode to mention Sam's abilities in detail (although obviously there had been hints before) and Missouri knew about his psychic thing more than he did at that time.

                                  So more of her would be great in an arc about Sam's abilities!

                                  On a side note - Galathea mentioned in her original post about wanting to know more about the Mary mystery since "Home", and I didn't get the reference. Watching it last night I realised it - Mary says sorry to Sam, but doesn't explain what she's apologising for. I'd always thought she was sympathising about Jess, but obviously she was apologising for being more involved with his demonosity than they knew.

                                  Also, I think this episode is not telling us everything. Missouri says that the spirit that's haunting the house is a "poltergeist, a nasty one" and bangs on about evil leaving scars, but I think she's wrong. Sam gets pinned up against the wall, and the only other times we've seen that happen is by powerful demons such as YED, Lillith and the chick in Malleus Mallificarum. It got me thinking that the "poltergeist" was YED in some form and Mary's connection with him is why she, and only she, could get it out of the house. When John leaves a message for Dean in the pilot he says to be careful - that they're in danger, and won't come and find them in "Home". I think John knew that there was a chance that YED would try and attract Sam back to Lawrence - to test him, like he does in "Nightmare", "Croatoan", "Simon Said" etc. Just a thought about how this could affect the S4 storyline re Mary
                                  sigpic

                                  Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                                    So I was watching "Home" last night, and I remebered how much I'd like to see Missouri again! She was such a well-constructed character and at the end she says to the boys "Don't be a stranger" and Dean says "We won't" - what a little liar! It was the first episode to mention Sam's abilities in detail (although obviously there had been hints before) and Missouri knew about his psychic thing more than he did at that time.
                                    I guess I am one of the few people who didn't like Missouri at all. First off I hated her condescending attitude towards Dean, for no apparent reason and secondly, I was always annoyed at her arrogant 'hey I am the psychic and you are the amateur' statement and then completely fails to notice that neither of the spirits have been banished after the cleansing ritual. If she was to return there would better be an explanation for her weird behaviour.

                                    Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                                    On a side note - Galathea mentioned in her original post about wanting to know more about the Mary mystery since "Home", and I didn't get the reference. Watching it last night I realised it - Mary says sorry to Sam, but doesn't explain what she's apologising for. I'd always thought she was sympathising about Jess, but obviously she was apologising for being more involved with his demonosity than they knew.
                                    Mary apologizing to Sam in 'Home' was always one of the most intriguing scenes for me since it so early in the show indicates at a huge mystery involving Mary. I just LOVE long term plotting in this show and this scene in 'Home' proves that Kripke has a plan on where he is going with the mytharc, if not in detail but in general.

                                    Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                                    Also, I think this episode is not telling us everything. Missouri says that the spirit that's haunting the house is a "poltergeist, a nasty one" and bangs on about evil leaving scars, but I think she's wrong. Sam gets pinned up against the wall, and the only other times we've seen that happen is by powerful demons such as YED, Lillith and the chick in Malleus Mallificarum. It got me thinking that the "poltergeist" was YED in some form and Mary's connection with him is why she, and only she, could get it out of the house. When John leaves a message for Dean in the pilot he says to be careful - that they're in danger, and won't come and find them in "Home". I think John knew that there was a chance that YED would try and attract Sam back to Lawrence - to test him, like he does in "Nightmare", "Croatoan", "Simon Said" etc. Just a thought about how this could affect the S4 storyline re Mary
                                    Hm, this is an intruiging idea, although most spirits in the show are easily able to throw the guys around without much effort as well, even if they usually use furniture to trap the guys LOL. Hm, interesting thought anyway, need to think about that a bit more.

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                                    • #19
                                      I loved the end of Season 4 but I have some big hopes for the future of SN!

                                      Personally I say bring back some old school people to help out Sam find Dean (or something along those lines!) We need some hardcore demon hunting booty - BRING BACK JO! She'd be so perfect in Dean's absence and I think her and Ruby would famously not get on Man that's one fight that would rock the joint to see.

                                      I'd also love to learn just a bit more about Ruby and what her motivation and drive is. I love her, I just think I'd love her more, knowing more about her.

                                      Also, this is to the more hardcore SN fans hehe, do you remember when Ruby told Sam to look into his mum's friends as they had some importance? Was that ever resolved? I could just imagine this becoming something bigger but I do have inkling Sam looked into it and it was just a distraction of some sort.

                                      Anyway - what ever I think, you just know the writers will conjure up some genius ideas for the show so all I can say is, BRING IT ON!

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Lex View Post
                                        I loved the end of Season 4 but I have some big hopes for the future of SN!

                                        Also, this is to the more hardcore SN fans hehe, do you remember when Ruby told Sam to look into his mum's friends as they had some importance? Was that ever resolved? I could just imagine this becoming something bigger but I do have inkling Sam looked into it and it was just a distraction of some sort.
                                        I guess you meant S3, unless you're one year ahead of us!

                                        Sam finding out about Mary's friends and family is one puzzle piece in the Mary mystery. It's one of the storylines they couldn't pursue further in S3 because of the writer's strike. It's fair to say that it will be developed in more detail in S4.

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