3.12 Jus In Bello

[Bre]

I'm a little surprised this thread hasn't been started yet.

I'm glad to say that once again, I am pleased with an episode in the third season. For me personally, I was blehhed out at the beginning, but after the worst of the strike and the most recent episodes, it's nice to see Supernatural coming back, swingin'!

How awesome to see a little FBI action again! I don't think Bela really knew what she was getting those boys into when she called the cops on them (and might I say, hIlarious for Colorado! I'm actually going up near Monument tomorrow for some 4-wheeling. ), but I liked that we got both girls in this episode. Curse the writers for making me enjoy their characters. They have, more or less, seamlessly integrated them in and made them an enjoyable part of the show for me, although I would like to see if Bela has a bit more of a hand in the fighting side, instead of the 'Hi-bye-stole-your-sh*t' attitude we see every time she appears. Ruby (character and actor) are getting a little better as we get closer to the end of the season.

Henrickson! I felt a little cheated with how they abruptly ended that storyline for the boys. I was hoping for... I don't know, there's a reason I don't write on shows, but something more, but at the same time I can understand why they felt the need to end it so quickly, what with the strike and all. And Sera Gamble surely did a fabulous job at that. She combined what we got in 'Nightshifter' and 'Folsom Prison Blues' beautifully with the idea of the cop seeing what it is Dean and Sam really do, although it definitely calls back to 'The Usual Suspects'. I like at the end of the episode that Dean and Henrickson go to relate to each other, with their life styles and what's important to them in the long run... or whatever.

Lilith! Spelling? No idea! That little girl was CREEPY! And what's with the white eyes? Why didn't we hear about her sooner? Where was she hiding? Why does she have to be a creepy little girl in a little dress that pretends to be innocent and then... isn't? Nice job on that part. And what about her relationship with the YED? If there was one? How did she play into that plot? I can't wait to hear a little back story on her, but I love the idea of the demon world having a sort of contract on Dean and Sam's lives. And I also love that Dean got such a kick on that.

Dean was in top form for this episode, loving his kinky talk and Clapton references. Typical. And then the whole Sam/Ruby thing was delicious, only in that it creates drama between the boys and shows us what Sam will become in the future.

I suck at these things, but I did like this episode. Now... how long do we have to wait? Until April 24th, right? And if I remember correctly, we're getting four more episodes after that? Anyone? Anyone?... Bueller?

[LRae12]

I too really enjoyed this episode. I do have a question, though...how did Sam 'know' about Lilith? When Ruby was questioning him, it implied that Sam knew about her...but I don't recall her being mentioned before.

I'm also wondering as to the character of Lilith herself. I know there's some feminist myth about 'Lilith' being Adam's first wife in the garden of Eden, but something about her not taking the male/female relationship as the male as head of the union thing and left. I'm wondering if they're saying that 'Lilith' from the mythical Lilith of Eden was in fact turned into a demon for her disobedience in the garden, and thus is this super powerful demon second to only Satan himself?

I don't know, just my bit of supposition for the evening with that idea popping into my head when I heard the name.

The episode itself was kick-ass. I didn't care for the fact that Sam considered murdering the girl, though. I think that's going a bit too far over the line to be believable for Sam's character, though we don't know how much time passed in the last episode, it could have been years that he was tough-assed lone rogue demon hunter.

Anywho, did I read Bre right that we have to wait until the 24th of April?! That sucks!

[galathea]

I too really enjoyed this episode. I do have a question, though...how did Sam 'know' about Lilith? When Ruby was questioning him, it implied that Sam knew about her...but I don't recall her being mentioned before.

Ruby was referring to the fact that the Tammi!Demon in Malleus Maleficarum told Sam that there was a new demonic leader who wants Sam dead and tries to find him. The leader's name wasn't mentioned then. Obviously Sam never told Dean about that new leader! That was all.

I think that's going a bit too far over the line to be believable for Sam's character, though we don't know how much time passed in the last episode, it could have been years that he was tough-assed lone rogue demon hunter.

Sam was alone as a demon hunter for about 3 months. Bobby's voicemail to Sam mentions that he didn't see or hear of him for that amount of time. Also, you have to know that the episode order of Jus In Bello and Mystery Spot was switched, so Sam considering to sacrifice someone for the greater good technically came before he experienced his downfall in Mystery Spot. That's why the character continuity is a bit shaken in Jus In Bello.

[Willow's Tara]

Haven't seen this episode yet, we haven't seen the episode after the witch one yuet (Tomorror night we will) but I just wanted to add something about 'Lilith" from Eden, It is possible she referenced to that, I remeber reading a Buffy book (Um...Immortal? No, I can't remeber the name but it's in one of the Buffy...Oh wait no it's in Angel, don't know which one). If she was the same one, it would be interesting to see.

[Obsessed]

I really enjoyed this episode. It was great seeing Henrickson and the boys banter. The whole thing was "awesome". YET I was so disappointed they killed Henrickson off. I think he could have been a great demon hunter and I would have welcomed a guest appearance from him again in the near future. In addition, I was surprised Sam would go along with the killing the virgin ritual. I didn't like that he was willing to go along with it. Well, that's that for now.

[Cori]

Wow! Words cannot really express how much I loved this week's episode but I'm gonna try anyway. This episode has certainly reinforced Sera Gamble's status as my favourite SN writer!

First off, I'm so beyond glad that Kripke decided to switch episodes 3.11 and 3.12 around. Not having liked Mystery Spot that much and having adored Jus In Bello, I'm so happy that I get to go into this ridiculously long hiatus (two months! ) on such an SN high!

I squeed once again over the Latin title this week. I looked it up and found the following explanation: the rules of jus in bello aim to confine the destructiveness of war, rule out certain kinds of weapons, protect civilians and limit the area and range of fighting. Which just fits this episode so perfectly!

This week's episode had (almost) all the things I love about SN: it was exciting, gripping, action-packed, full of suspense, had a few funny lines thrown in, showed the expertise and skills of the Winchesters, added new layers to the mythology and most importantly for me it focused solely on the mytharc. The only thing that I wish we could have seen more of in this episode is some heartfelt brotherly talks/interactions, which is probably why "Fresh Blood" remains my favourite s3 episode so far, closely followed by "Jus In Bello".

I admit I used to like Bela in the beginning but after this episode I've had it with her. Not only did she steal the Colt and thereby endanger the boys' safety once again, now she also set up the boys to get arrested. Okay maybe she did not know about the whole Henriksen situation but she is still an evil bitca who annoys the hell out of me. I wouldn't mind if she got killed off in the next few episodes, to be honest. Ruby on the other hand has grown on me more and more and I really enjoyed her again in this week's episode.

What I did not expect and which was a positive surprise (given this ep's serious plot) was how many truly funny scenes this episode had. For example when the boys struggled with their chains, that was adorable. Or Dean's "But you didn't shoot the deputy" line! That one made me laugh out aloud because I was thinking the exact same thing. Or Nancy's line "When this is over, I'm gonna have so much sex, but not with you." Or Dean thinking that it is awesome that the boys have a contract on them by the demons. I also enjoyed the following exchange between Dean and Henriksen:

Henriksen: "I've got a lot to celebrate, after all seeing you two in chains ?"
Dean: "You kinky son of a bitch. We don't swing that way."

Maybe that was also a nice little dig by Sera Gamble at all those Wincest fans out there.

This week's episode had so many squee-worthy moments and scenes, I was pretty much jumping up and down throughout the ep.

I loved that this episode showed how smart, skilled and expertly trained the boys are over and over again. For example in the scene where the Deputy Director of the FBI, Steven, (played by Peter DeLuise who used to be on 21 Jump Street, I loved seeing him on the show! ) is possessed and starts shooting at the boys. He hits Dean in the shoulder and Sam suddenly sees Steven's black eyes and immediately starts chanting an exorcism ritual in Latin. Without a book! That was so cool! I love that our Sammy is so smart! Or then there is the scene where Sam asks Nancy to get them a towel for Dean's shoulder and then grabs her and steals her crucifix, which he then uses to turn the water in the toilet into holy water, just brilliant! The scene where Sam then exorcises a possessed Henriksen by repeatedly pushing him into the toilet filled with holy water was just fantastic. I thought it was great that Henriksen finally got to learn the truth and once he did started trusting the Winchesters immediately. The banter and bickering between Dean and Henriksen in this episode was great and so funny. I loved the chemistry between these two characters. It's really a shame that they killed off Henriksen right when he learned the truth and I, along with Sam and Dean, actually started liking the guy. He even wanted to tell the FBI that Sam and Dean had died and thereby ensuring that they wouldn't be hunted by the law anymore. He was truly one of the most interesting secondary characters and it's a pity to lose him.

Another scene that made me squee is when it was revealed that the boys now both have tattoos which keep them from being possessed. Again, such a clever idea! Not to mention hot! Excuse me, I have a thing for guys with tattoos.

The Ruby scenes in eppy 3.12 were also very interesting. I'm still not 100% convinced if she had actually gone through with her plan (killing every demon in the surrounding area, including herself, by performing a spell that involved cutting out a virgin's heart) if the boys had agreed to it. We still don't know if she really can be trusted or if she has a hidden agenda. I thought it was great that she revealed one of Sam's secrets, one of those many things that he hasn't told Dean, namely that there is a new demon leader out there who wants Sam dead because he is competition. Ruby reveals a bit more about this new demon leader, we learn that she is female and her name is Lilith. Ruby then telling the boys off for having allowed that the Colt got stolen was hilarious and pretty much mirrored my own feelings on this subject. So for Ruby's plan to work, a virgin is needed and it is revealed that Nancy is one. I loved Dean's reaction when he found that out, I could totally relate to his reaction. Dean and Henriksen are strongly opposed to sacrificing Nancy but Nancy is prepared to do it because she can thereby save a lot of people. Kudos to Nancy, she was really very strong and brave in that situation. I couldn't really believe that Sam actually considered sacrificing Nancy, that seemed out of character to me. Yes he has become tougher and has done a few questionable things lately but I can't wrap my head around the fact that Sam would actually go so far. Luckily, Dean has another plan and convinces Sam to go along with it.

Dean's plan of letting the demons in the police station, trapping them there and then exorcising them with nowhere for them to run was absolutely brilliant! That they recorded the exorcism ritual on tape and then let it play over the PA system of the police station was bloody great, such an awesome idea! I loved the excitement and action of that entire scene and how the exorcised demons then exploded at the ceiling at the end, just fantastic stuff!

Just when everyone thinks that the fight is over and that they have won, Lilith shows up and kills everyone left at the station. Now Lilith may be creepy and evil as hell but she certainly has a knack for describing the Winchesters:

Lilith: "I'm looking for two boys. They're brothers. One's really tall, one's really cute."

I couldn't agree more!

What was up with Lilith having white eyes? So far, we have encountered yellow, red and black eyes with demons. I wonder what white means. Maybe that she is especially powerful? Either way, a demon as a little girl is always extremely creepy (remember the one on Ats?). I'm looking forward to learning more about Lilith, her backstory, whether she had a connection to the YED and what kind of connection etc. etc.

Poor boys, thinking their brilliant plan had worked only to find out that they failed after all! Ruby is understandably pissed off and lays on the guilt trip pretty heavily. Still, I did not like that she told the boys to go with her plan the next time. For one, because we still don't know whether she can be trusted or not. And also because the boys should be free to make their own decisions. At least she gave them those amulets to keep Lilith off the brothers' trail.

Now I'm more glad than ever that the strike is over because even though we have to wait two months at least we will still get a few more episodes this season. At the end of 3.12 everything is pretty much open and I'm curious and giddy about so many things that I desperately crave a few more episodes which hopefully will at least answer some of my questions and clear up some of the mysteries.

Sorry now I have rambled on way longer than intended but once I start I can't seem to stop. Anyway "Jus In Bello" seriously kicked ass and I'm looking forward to many new episodes like this in the future!

[ciderdrinker]

Now I'm more glad than ever that the strike is over

I didn't know the strike was actually over! (Goddamn being at work and out of the loop) So we should get at least a season finale? I'm guessing that the season will still be short?

Oh and BTW - loved the episode this week, especially the "But You didn't shoot the deputy!" line, which I said in my head as soon as Henrikson said his line.

[Cori]

I didn't know the strike was actually over! (Goddamn being at work and out of the loop) So we should get at least a season finale? I'm guessing that the season will still be short?

Yep as of April 24th we will get four more episodes. That's not a full season but it's definitely better than nothing, especially given how open everything was at the end of Jus In Bello.

[galathea]

Dean: "If that's how you win wars, then I don't want to win."

Supernatural never shies away from very controversial and morally complex topics and Jus In Bello is no exception, which sometimes makes me a bit nervous, because wartime ethics are a seriously dangerous minefield, although Sera Gamble treated it with a lot of care in this episode. I am no lawyer but as far as I understand it Jus In Bello is a term that describes the humanitarian laws that apply to the war between two parties. It states a) that non-combatants should be protected from unnecessary suffering and that the fundamental human rights need to be preserved, even for enemy soldiers that are captured and b) it has to be ensured that war is limited in its scope and level of violence. There has to be a proportionality of means in war.

The Winchesters unfortunately are in a war with enemies who couldn't care less about fundamental human rights, which makes upholding the moral standards of humans so much more important. It's one of the most basic rules: To take the ruthlessness of the enemy as an excuse to give up on what you are fighting for in the first place, your humanity, is hypocritical. The different approach to this was beautifully represented by Dean and Ruby.

While I still can't make heads or tail of Ruby's behaviour and doubt her will to actually sacrifice herself for the greater good, her approach to the subject of war at least makes her an interesting adversary for this episode. It's very telling that although the emphasized in Malleus Maleficarum that she sides with the humans, because she is still remembering how it feels to be human, her stance here is completely demonic, humanitarian considerations don't play into her arguments at all.

Fight fire with fire is her motto and for her war is a simple game of numbers, because unlike Sam and Dean she actually hasn't any humanity to loose anymore and it makes me wonder if her only agenda in showing up was the hope that she could finally push Sam over the edge, by presenting a dilemma that seems unwinnable. Because given that fact that she said she came to save them and then just bailed when they didn't cooperate, her argument seems fishy. If she really wanted to make sure they have a fighting chance and help them, when she thought they still had the Colt, she could have simply stayed and/or provided them with the only actual useful weapon: her dagger. Instead she chose to leave when Sam didn't act like she wanted him to, so it clearly wasn't her real motif to make sure he survives. Add to that, that she shows up instantly when the boys survived after all, despite her expression of disappointment earlier and again tried to manipulate Sam and Dean into guilt. So I am absolutely convinced that her motifs are very shady still.

Ruby's attempt to put the blame for the final deaths on Sam and Dean really aggravated me. The boys actually did everything right in this episode. Dean's plan, although put together under great pressure, was brilliant and actually worked without killing a single person and sent 30+ demons back to hell. That's an incredible achievement and I love that the boys are shown so competent here and managed to save everybody single-handedly with their improvisation skills and knowledge.

Ruby trying to devaluate this achievement, by claiming that Lilith could only kill those people, because they let one demon escape, is not only very unlikely but also completely out of line. Ruby makes a lot of claims here without any real evidence. After all, the demon Sam exorcised out of Henriksen explicitly told them that he had already informed Lilith and the other where they were and I seriously doubt that a) Lilith was in a 1 Mile radius from the police station, she obviously preferred to send her minions and b) if her minions would have been destroyed by the spell, she would certainly have noticed their lack of return and would have come looking for the boys anyway. So Ruby's little attempt to guilt trip the boys is sheer manipulation and misses any real base of arguments.

I refrain from making any attempts of developing theories about the new Big Bad derived from her name Lilith. I find her depiction as a little girl fascinating because it might put the boys in a serious conflict when it comes to confronting her. While they show less and less concern about the death of the innocent humans, when it comes to killing the demons, killing a child might be a barrier they are not willing to cross (I really hope so!), which makes the Colt useless and they do need other options anyway. Why a demon obviously as powerful as Lillith bowed to the YED, whom she apparently opposed is a mystery to me, but I guess we will learn about her own motifs soon enough.

Henriksen: "My job is boring, it's frustrating. You work three years for one break and then maybe you can save a few people. Maybe! That's the pay-off."

Why my show forces me to write one obituary after another for my favourite recurring characters is beyond me, and if I have one complaint about this episode then it is that they killed Henriksen off. Not only was he the only character that represented an outside perspective on the world of the Winchesters, the Feds storyline connected to him was also my favourite subplot in the show, because it provided a believable obstacle for the boys and satisfyingly dealt with a lot of side-effects of their existence as hunters. I'm not sure why there was the necessity to close that particular storyline down, but I am very sad about it. It's to notice though, that now Dean and Sam are officially dead, while John, is the only one officially still alive. Talk about irony!

I expected Henriksen would sooner or later be confronted with the truth about Sam and Dean and I was really looking forward to that and the show didn't disappoint me at all here. The interaction between Dean and Henriksen was clearly the highpoint of the episode for me. Henriksen surely can be an arrogant jerk and it has to put a dent in his ego that he wasn't able to catch the boys out of his own, but relied on an anonymous tip, not to mention that he lost them several times before. I loved that he was still able to admit to Dean that he underestimated them and that he screwed up. Dean's usual bravado where law enforcement is concerned and Henriksen's arrogant attitude make for some great banter between the characters and even in those scenes, when Henriksen still is a non-believer, it shows already how similar they are at the core and that makes their easy companionship later on very believable.

Henriksen's calm and judicious reaction to the siege, while everybody around him broke out in panic was impressive and I liked that he was actually shown competent here. Taking a short moment to reassure Nancy and giving clear orders, keeping everybody around him calm. While his conversion from non-believer to believer via possession and his subsequent trust in the boys was a bit rushed, I am willing to concede that within the time limit of this episode it was unavoidable to handle it any other way.

Dean and Henriksen's short but heartfelt exchange about the similarities of their jobs and their private lives was fabulous. Where Dean hunts supernatural monsters, Henriksen hunts the human kind of monsters and in the end it leads for both of them to a relatively isolated social existence. One could easily imagine these two as close friends in the future and Henriksen would make a formidable hunter, which makes it all the more sad that he bites the dust in the end, because if Sam and Dean would need one thing, then it is allies of every kind to support them.

Again it shows how effortlessly Dean bonds with people, as soon as they approach him without prejudices. Henriksen's earlier behaviour is water under the bridge, the instant he opens up to the boys and shows them respect. Dean clearly realises that Henriksen had no other choice as to act as he did, lacking the proper information to put the Winchesters in the right context and so he doesn't hold a grudge against Henriksen. Henriksen is also the only one instantly siding with Dean in the sacrifice argument. Their choice to act human in the face of overwhelming odds against them, sets them apart from all others in that room, including Sam in that moment.

Dean: "Sam, please tell me you're not actually considering this!"

I have to make a short excurse here: One of the difficulties in analysing the boys in this episode lies in the fact that they switched the airing of Mystery Spot and Jus In Bello because they wanted the season to go out with a bang if the writer's strike had put an early end to it and I very much see the reasoning for that, but the reading of their actions is different whether you come from the production order or from the airing order. Since the switch was decided while the strike was already in progress there wasn't a chance to re-write scenes or adapt to the changes in the character continuity for the episode, but no matter in which order you approach the episodes, one character continuity is always disrupted:

For Sam I would have seriously preferred if they had aired in the original production order. There's a great sense of progression in Sam's approach to violence from Malleus Maleficarum, where he admits to try to be more ruthless, toying with the idea of killing human evildoers, to Jus In Bello where he seriously considers to sacrifice an innocent human being, without making the step of actually deciding to do it, to Mystery Spot where he decides to take that last step and sacrifice a human to achieve his goals. The grave effect that the events of Mystery Spot have for Sam's character, that make me expect a change in his attitude as a result because he is shaken by having seen how far off track this approach will take him, is partly negated by showing Jus In Bello afterwards, since it implies that Sam hasn't learned all that well from his experience in Mystery Spot.

For Dean on the other hand, the switched episode order actually makes more sense than the original one. His relaxed and happy attitude in Mystery Spot follows very naturally out of his newly found will to live in Dream A Little Dream, while it seems a bit inappropriate directly after the disturbing events of Jus In Bello. Also I would expect an inquiry in regard to the secrets that Sam keeps from him following after Jus In Bello and the lack thereof in Mystery Spot is a bit disappointing in the original order.

Overall I consider the effects on character continuity of the episode switch as more detrimental to Sam's character though, so the original production order is preferable for me and I hope that they restore it on the DVD version of S3 and make the fallout from Mystery Spot visible in the episodes that will follow.

Anyway, in many regards Jus In Bello was a perfect mirror for Croatoan with complete reversed roles for Sam and Dean. Not only were they under siege in an enclosed space in Croatoan as well, but they also had to decide on killing a human being as a precautionary measure of protection. Back then Sam was the one arguing for a clear conscience by keeping Duane alive, against the odds that he might endanger them all. They are supposed to struggle with these kinds of moral decisions and taking precautionary lethal measures when there is still a chance to follow other successful options wasn't debatable for Sam. Dean of course was back then under the extreme pressure to possibly face the exact scenario John's last words conjured up and was hell bent to eliminate each and every danger to Sam, not taking any chances ... and still failing in the end.

Sam doesn't have this kind of psychological distress ?excuse' in the JIB set up. He considers to kill a person in cold blood, without weighing other options first and his complete trust in Ruby's faithfulness is worrying. She helped them a lot, but her agenda is still hidden and she is a demon and no matter how much she might be connected to her humanity, the eternity in hell changed her after all and to blindly trust her word in that matter is foolish. Even if she was telling the truth, the flimsy excuse of maybe saving 30 people if you sacrifice one is the same distorted argumentation that the people from Burkitsville used in Scarecrow to sacrifice innocent couples to a god for their own survival as a community. To kill Nancy would be murder, clear and simple and it doesn't matter that she agreed to be sacrificed, since under the aforementioned law of war she was a civilian and had to be protected.

Dean's utter disgust for the plan goes back to his original mantra: Saving people, hunting things. Human sacrifices are simply not acceptable and he is right of course. He has to act as Sam's conscience here and just like Sam's plea back in Croatoan probably played into Dean's decision to not kill Duane after all, Sam follows Dean's lead here, no matter how infinitesimal the chances of survival seemed in the beginning. He did argue for the Ruby's plan, but in the end he didn't make a definite decision and that's at least a ray of hope for him. From considering an action to actually going through with it, it's still a long way. Again it proves that Dean and Sam work best in a team, relying on each other to show the way when one of them strays too far off. What becomes of Sam without Dean, we can clearly see in Mystery Spot and where Dean would head without Sam we can see in the beginning of S2. Again, I have to emphasize how truly interdependent those two are.

While part of me is incredibly worried about Sam, the other part of me is extremely fascinated by the fact how the writers cleverly walk a very, very close border with Sam's character this season, showing him progressively ruthless, without making him completely irredeemable, yet. I find that endlessly preferable to actually making Sam evil, as long as they don't push him over the line and force him into an act that the viewer and Sam himself can't live with afterwards. They walked a similar line with Dean last season, with Croatoan being the hardest push, which had me worried that they destroy the character and had me incredibly relieved that the turn came with Hunted. I hope to find a similar relief in the next couple of episodes for Sam's character.

Bela: You don't know me at all."

In general Bela's appearance was short enough to not annoy me in this episode, still I am a bit frustrated that she got one over the boys yet again. It should in theory not be so hard to actually find her: She is a dealer and she needs to be visible to her clientele or she would be out of business pretty soon. Even if she lays low for a while, there should be enough leads to follow out of her contacts. I am still grumpy how the Winchesters are dumbed down in order to make a character like Bela work at all in this show.

Bela's statement that she didn't stole the Colt for profit, again gives the impression that sooner or later we are jumped with a redemption story for Bela, which I really, really don't want to see. To me a reconciliation between Bela and the boys is impossible, no matter what her backstory is, for one main reason: Dean isn't the one to hold a grudge, we know that and that's wonderfully demonstrated in Jus In Bello again, where we see his easy companionship with Henriksen. Henriksen just didn't know, he lacked the necessary context to understand the world of the Winchesters, hence he isn't held responsible for his fierce prosecution of the boys. Bela on the other hand is fully aware of the consequences of her actions and still chooses to act without any moral conscience and sells out the lives of those around her. Like Henriksen said, everybody has a sob story, but not everybody becomes a killer. Her actions are a conscious choice and hence I see no way to write her back into good relations with the boys, without again putting Sam and Dean out of character.

As a sidenote: If Bela hadn't delivered the boys to the FBI, the demon army wouldn't have known where to find them in the first place, hence the bodycount of this episode is to a good deal her fault, even if she couldn't foresee the far-reaching consequences of her actions, I somehow doubt she would care. By the way, it amuses me greatly that the big ass demons need to infiltrate an utterly human and mundane institution like the FBI in order to find the boys.

Other things to squee about:
I love when they depict Sam and Dean as the smart hunters they are. Sam instantly grabbing the possessed FBI guy and rapidly chanting Latin, exorcising the demon in no time without blinking was beyond awesome. His impromptu Holy Water basin out of a toilet was fantastic and Dean's brilliant plan to get them all out was just pure love! Lately we don't see it very often that they manage to completely solve the situation without any outside help, so I appreciate it a lot if they actually do have the upper hand just relying on their smarts and skills!

I was wondering if Ruby's spell was actually a fact, because it would provide the boys with a handy possibility to wipe out the demon army, if they would be able to a) lure all demons to one confined location and b) either substitute the virgin heart component or find another way to obtain it e.g. from a corpse. It's an interesting thought at least and I suspect that Bobby would be able to find that spell if he knew what he was looking for!

So, overall this was an exciting episode and Sera Gamble and Kim Manners once again proved that they are the winning team for the show. I can't wait for the rest of the episodes, going into another long hiatus really sucks! LOL

[Rosely]

Wow! Words cannot really express how much I loved this week’s episode but I’m gonna try anyway.

Totally agree on you there! This episode had me breathless and all emotions you can have during an episode, passed by
I'm never as good as you girls at putting my words together about these SN episodes, but I'd like to share a bit.

This episode was absolutely amazing! At frist seeing Henrickson, thinking OMG HOW will they get out of this one???
Sam exorsising that first Agent that had shot Dean was cool! I a happy that he has learned the ritual by head! That definately comes in handy!
Must be a result from Sin City, when Dean lost the book and didn't know the words..?

When Sam was 'harsh' to Nancy, surprised me, but he had a good reason with taking her cross. I just love these little handy ways they have now in there system, like knowing the exorsising ritual by head, and making the water in the toilet holy water by using Nancy's cross.

Like Cori I loved that line "But I didn't shoot the deputy" Had to laugh out loud for a while!

Oh I loved the tatoes on the boys! How clever is that! When Dean was out in the parking lot, I was a bit affraid that some demon would possesse Dean (even that would've been cheap), but now whe know that they can't
(or was this already known and did I miss it?)

Ruby's entrance was great. I have actually liked her from the moment we knew she was a demon. Definately wonder what she has for motive to help them... but so far I like her.
I wonder if and when Sams 'abilities' will come back. I know they were tied to the YED, but like Ava had learned to access and grow her powers, I'm sure there's more in Sam than he knows or would like to believe. Why would he otherwise still be a 'rival' to a powerful demon like Lilith?

Deans plan was great! Of course sucker for letting one guy running to tell the boss... but still. I loved the exorsism moment with all demons going to hell!


All in all, a really great episode. Possibly my favourite of season 3!

[Heather]

In general Bela's appearance was short enough to not annoy me in this episode, still I am a bit frustrated that she got one over the boys yet again. It should in theory not be so hard to actually find her: She is a dealer and she needs to be visible to her clientele or she would be out of business pretty soon. Even if she lays low for a while, there should be enough leads to follow out of her contacts. I am still grumpy how the Winchesters are dumbed down in order to make a character like Bela work at all in this show.

Bela's statement that she didn't stole the Colt for profit, again gives the impression that sooner or later we are jumped with a redemption story for Bela, which I really, really don't want to see.

I loved your review, hun, and agree with pretty much all of it - and totally love that you made me think of different possible explanations for Ruby's actions in the episode - but I just wanted to respond to this tiny bit about Bela and the Colt.

How would you have prefered the boys to keep the Colt safe? In the trunk of their car? On their actual person? I know that you aren't fond of them having kept it in the safe in 3.10 - and I do agree that that was rather reckless of them. But if Bela was able to break into a safe and if she was as great of a thief as she is, don't you think that she would've gotten into the trunk of their car, too? She's not a demon. No hex or spell that they cast over the trunk could keep her out - like they did in 1.22 "Devil's Trap." Even though I obviously have no experience with breaking into anything, I'd bet that breaking into a safe is a lot more difficult than breaking into the trunk of a car. And, as for the brothers keeping the Colt on their person at all times, that would lead to certain issues, wouldn't it? It's not exactly wise to carry a gun on you these days. It's hard to imagine that they would've done that.

So, to me, I don't think that they changed any of the characters in order for Bela to get the Colt. They didn't dumb the boys down and they didn't make Bela any smarter than they had already said she was in her first appearance. No matter where the brothers had kept the Colt, she could've easily lifted it off them and run for the hills to do what she wants with it (sell or use or just keep as a nifty little keepsake).

Lastly, I don't think that Bela's line in the episode about not wanting to sell it points directly towards a reconiliation between her and the brothers. She is still very much an antagonistic character. However, that doesn't mean that this could help her character develop a backstory or give the fans some help with understanding her character. Just because the fans and even the brothers get a little bit of insight into the innermost workings of Bela's mind, doesn't mean that they'll instantly forgive and forget how many times Bela's screwed them over already.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. Ruby is definitely my favorite new character we've been introduced to since Ellen, but Bela is still keeping me interested - especially with the amount of mystery concealing her past.

[galathea]

I loved your review, hun, and agree with pretty much all of it - and totally love that you made me think of different possible explanations for Ruby's actions in the episode.

Thanks! I love if I can provide people with a different perspective!

How would you have prefered the boys to keep the Colt safe? In the trunk of their car? On their actual person? I know that you aren't fond of them having kept it in the safe in 3.10 - and I do agree that that was rather reckless of them. But if Bela was able to break into a safe and if she was as great of a thief as she is, don't you think that she would've gotten into the trunk of their car, too? She's not a demon. No hex or spell that they cast over the trunk could keep her out - like they did in 1.22 "Devil's Trap." Even though I obviously have no experience with breaking into anything, I'd bet that breaking into a safe is a lot more difficult than breaking into the trunk of a car. And, as for the brothers keeping the Colt on their person at all times, that would lead to certain issues, wouldn't it? It's not exactly wise to carry a gun on you these days. It's hard to imagine that they would've done that.

So, to me, I don't think that they changed any of the characters in order for Bela to get the Colt. They didn't dumb the boys down and they didn't make Bela any smarter than they had already said she was in her first appearance. No matter where the brothers had kept the Colt, she could've easily lifted it off them and run for the hills to do what she wants with it (sell or use or just keep as a nifty little keepsake).

Oh don't understand me wrong. I loved that Bela stole the Colt, I just hated that they forced the boys into atypical behaviour to provide her with the opportunity to steal it in the first place by a) making them work with her after all she had done before without any real necessity and b) by storing the Colt in a safe, which they never do! If Bela would've stolen the Colt out of the Impala's trunk I would have been a happy camper! That would have shown Bela as clever by avoiding the boys altogther and still wouldn't have make the boys looking dumb by inviting her AND placing the Colt in the safe in front of her.

Lastly, I don't think that Bela's line in the episode about not wanting to sell it points directly towards a reconiliation between her and the brothers. She is still very much an antagonistic character. However, that doesn't mean that this could help her character develop a backstory or give the fans some help with understanding her character. Just because the fans and even the brothers get a little bit of insight into the innermost workings of Bela's mind, doesn't mean that they'll instantly forgive and forget how many times Bela's screwed them over already.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. Ruby is definitely my favorite new character we've been introduced to since Ellen, but Bela is still keeping me interested - especially with the amount of mystery concealing her past.

Well, it's good that you are so optimistic! I loved Bela's character concept when it was introduced and I just found myself increasingly annoyed at how the writers seem to need to accomodate to her presence so much, by making concessions in storylines and character behaviour. I am fine with Bela being a clear cut antagonist, but playing her as an antagonist and then make the boys forget that every time they meet her is just very frustrating to me and doesn't ring true with the boys. If they would finally settle on a clear path for her character I would be happy. Still, her lack of ties with the actual plot makes her a perfect character for 1-2 episodes in a season, but I find her implementation into every second episode unjustified.

At the moment I couldn't care less about Bela's backstory! I am simply not interested in her. I loved how they introduced recurring characters in the past, with 1-2 episodes per season, showing up here and there and let the audience slowly develop a curiosity about the character. It took us nearly 2 seasons to get a backstory on Bobby and I don't see any necessity for a backstory on Bela yet, apart from a clear desire on the network/producers site to keep that character for whatever reasons, but without any real need for her in the show.

Ruby works a hell of a lot better for me as a character. Her entanglement with the mytharc makes her appearance natural in mytharc episodes. I don't love her exactly, I guess it just stems on the fact that I have absolutely no idea what her real purpose is at the moment, so my final evaluation of her character will be very dependent on hindsight.

[Heather]

Oh don't understand me wrong. I loved that Bela stole the Colt, I just hated that they forced the boys into atypical behaviour to provide her with the opportunity to steal it in the first place by a) making them work with her after all she had done before without any real necessity and b) by storing the Colt in a safe, which they never do! If Bela would've stolen the Colt out of the Impala's trunk I would have been a happy camper! That would have shown Bela as clever by avoiding the boys altogther and still wouldn't have make the boys looking dumb by inviting her AND placing the Colt in the safe in front of her.

Oh! I see, now. Upon watching 3.10, I wasn't bothered by the fact that they did call on Bela for help - because, how I see it, she was their last resort and they needed her help in order to save Bobby (and I liked that she even turned them down at first - and then something clicked and she came to help just so she could steal the Colt). Even still, I can see how that may come off as a "We need Bela in an episode so let's just throw her in here" type of situation.

I must have just been misunderstanding your frustration then - I thought that you were simply mad because the boys kept it in the hotel room safe! But, after reading your explanation, I totally get where you're coming from here.

As for your thoughts on Bela, I would go through and respond to them all but that'd be rather pointless since...well...I'd just keep saying: "Oh, I get where you're coming from and that makes total sense why you would think that way but I still feel like she could be used in an interesting way." The only thing I'll add to what you said, though, is that I trust that the writers will successfully incorporate Bela into the seasonal storyline and/or overall mytharc somehow - much like how Ruby is already involved (though she just naturally fits in, like you said). I'm just concerned that it might take too long for them to do it, though.

[galathea]

Oh! I see, now. Upon watching 3.10, I wasn't bothered by the fact that they did call on Bela for help - because, how I see it, she was their last resort and they needed her help in order to save Bobby (and I liked that she even turned them down at first - and then something clicked and she came to help just so she could steal the Colt). Even still, I can see how that may come off as a "We need Bela in an episode so let's just throw her in here" type of situation.

See, I was bothered because Dean threatened to kill her the last episode she was involved and there was no nessecity to call her since they had access to the professor's dream lab stuff that theoretically should have had dream root, since he was experimenting with it. So ... forced!

As for your thoughts on Bela, I would go through and respond to them all but that'd be rather pointless since...well...I'd just keep saying: "Oh, I get where you're coming from and that makes total sense why you would think that way but I still feel like she could be used in an interesting way." The only thing I'll add to what you said, though, is that I trust that the writers will successfully incorporate Bela into the seasonal storyline and/or overall mytharc somehow - much like how Ruby is already involved (though she just naturally fits in, like you said). I'm just concerned that it might take too long for them to do it, though.

Maybe! Thing is I am not really interested in the show becoming an ensemble show and every time we need to watch backstory for Bela, there's less time for the boys or a clever MotW or an interesting guest character. I love the focus on 2 characters, I've always stated that. It's not about them being girls, I worship Bobby, but I still wouldn't want him in every episode. I love that we meet a different persons and their fates in every episode. I am not interested in suddenly having 5 mains. *shrugs* I love the writers but the way they handled Bela so far doesn't give me any reason to have faith in the further story of the character. I am just very pessimistic and suspicious, it's my favourite show we are talking about here!

[KingofCretins]

Question about Bela, because I might have missed this in an earlier episode, otherwise the show cheated a bit -- how did she *know* about the Colt? I don't remember them using it or mentioning it in front of her.

Or are we left to assume that it's enough of a legendary 'quest item' in the Supernatural-verse and that it's widely known it's theirs that she could have, as Heather suggests, just remembered and decided to steal it?

I have no doubt that they're eventually going to offer up the "Something happens and suddenly Bela wants in on the big fight" arc for her, and honestly, from the top of Act III I expected she was going to show up, Colt blazing, she and Ruby would be catty, etc. I'm really glad they didn't go that way, it would have been too easy.

[Llywela]

Question about Bela, because I might have missed this in an earlier episode, otherwise the show cheated a bit -- how did she *know* about the Colt? I don't remember them using it or mentioning it in front of her.

Researching the existence of rare and unique supernatural items and then locating them is what Bela does. That was established in her very first episode. You might well ask how she knew about any of the items we've seen her procure.

The brothers have used the Colt a lot since Ruby fixed it, and we know that there's been a lot of gossip about them disseminating through the hunting network. I don't think it would have been all that hard for Bela to find out that the Colt existed and that they had it.

[KingofCretins]

Fair enough -- I like Bela, so I don't mind her being around I also love Sam's fantasy about her, and not just for the obvious appeal of Lauren Cohan in a negligee. I wonder if there's already fanfic of Dean/Ruby and Sam/Bela out on a double date?

[Ehlwyen]

Lastly, I don't think that Bela's line in the episode about not wanting to sell it points directly towards a reconiliation between her and the brothers. She is still very much an antagonistic character. However, that doesn't mean that this could help her character develop a backstory or give the fans some help with understanding her character. Just because the fans and even the brothers get a little bit of insight into the innermost workings of Bela's mind, doesn't mean that they'll instantly forgive and forget how many times Bela's screwed them over already.

I agree! I'm afraid she's aligned with another faction or on her own vengeance mission. For as controlled as she proudly claims to be, I think she's as stupidly reckless as all the other hunters.

I'm really hoping for the former as that will cause a lot more tension and interest than just getting her sobstory backstory. GO TEAM LILITH!!! (Not to win. Just because I'd like to see a big fight and see Bela on the wrongside.)

I'd like to say Bela's too proud to reconcile with the boys, which is why the lone vengeance trip is an option in my mind. But I haven't been too impressed with the show's handling of the character to accurately predict.

And ultimately the show likes to show that good people have bad sides and bad people have good sides. Bela probably won't leave the show until she's been at least partly redeemed. Best buddies with Winchesters is another story.

[Lady Manson]

Haven't seen this episode yet, we haven't seen the episode after the witch one yuet (Tomorror night we will) but I just wanted to add something about 'Lilith" from Eden, It is possible she referenced to that, I remeber reading a Buffy book (Um...Immortal? No, I can't remeber the name but it's in one of the Buffy...Oh wait no it's in Angel, don't know which one). If she was the same one, it would be interesting to see.

I'm REALLY glad someone brought up Lilith from Eden. I don't want to post all of this, so I figured I'd just offer this link. I'm not 100% sure about posting links on this board - I know other forum links aren't allowed, but this one might be as far as I know. If not, someone feel free to take it down.

This is the Wikipedia rundown on the mythology of Lilith, who has appeared just about everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

[slaycandy]

I've been reading a lot of the posts about Bela in this thread, and I have to point something out, her character feels like it's on a repitition course to me. I adored her when we first met her in BDABR, but hell, let's face it, it was a kick ass episode. But Bela's part in this story was, she came in played the boys to get the item, but then wound up needing to destroy the item she planned to sell to save her live, boys save Bela. Which was the exact same storyline they gave us with RSAM.

When she finally had a different role to play in Fresh Blood, I was quite excited, I thought the writers were beginning to show their hand, and tell us where they were going with Bela, leading her down the road of evil rather than good, selling out the Winchesters, not calling them, etc. I began to wonder if she was tied up with the demons etc. but I liked that they had seemed to move away from her original repeated storyline.

I did have a slight query with this episode though, and that was why Bela wanted Gordon's little bag of tricks. She had earlier said that she was on the wrong side of a fairly psychotic buyer, and now was stealing from a hunter, perhaps for protection? I wasn't sure whether she was fighting off her own demons, working with them, or trying to appease them. But to me, I did think it was pretty clear cut that the Winchsters should not trust her for one second - and felt that Dean's threat over the phone was enough to seal their fate as enemies.

So, I do completely have to agree with Chris, that seeing Bela turn up in the next episode was so out of the blue for me. It was like the writers were back-tracking purely to put Bela into a situation where she had the means and opportunity to get the Colt. I have to admit though, I was convinced that Bela had taken some of the dream root and gone into Sam's mind to give him that dream before turning up to mess with him. I was wondering if perhaps she was trying to get into Sam's head for some other reasons, again, my curiosity about her working with demons was kicking in - perhaps needing to know where Sam was at. But then, that was never explored in the show, and Sam's little dream seemed more odd to me. I had been lauging at first when I had naturally assumed it was Bela messing with him, seeing her show up with the coat and peel it off in the same manner moments later - but on looking back, I guess that wasn't what the writers had been going for, I guess somtimes a dream is just a dream!

Anyway, on with what I was saying... I have for some time thought Bela was either a) a demon or b) seriously linked with demons somehow. I have questioned her reluctance to go into John's lock-up, perhaps for the devil's trap... we've never seen her handle holy water, cross salt, or escape a devil's trap... I've just always had that feeling in the back of mind that maybe... so when this latest episode came alone, I thought for sure Bela was in fact the new demon leader Lilith. It seemed to make sense to me: Bela knew where to send the demons, she had the colt so knew they were unprotected, and she had been messing with them for some time. When we first heard about her, Bobby had mentioned that she had been out of the country for a long time, and I was curious - why now of all times did she come back?

I am rambling now, but it's still my theory that Bela has demonic ties somehow. I am not going to be convinced until I see it on my screen otherwise. If they do choose to redeem her and have the boys turn around and forgive her, then I'm not sure I'm going to love where that winds up. But at the moment, I am loving Bela, based on the fact that I don't believe her to be redeemable, I believe her to be on the other side - and I am hoping, there is a twist to her tale in the works. I think I'd be disappointed otherwise, lol.

Oh, one more thing: Ruby & Bela have never met. I have a funny feeling when they do meet on screen, it won't be the first time they've met, heh.

Again, this is all just rambling and pure speculation on the episodes we've seen Bela in, but hey. I just had very different ideas of where I thought they were going with her character, but maybe I'm just expecting some big twist, and really she just is who she says she is (but I'm not that trusting, lol).

Sorry for the long message, it's late and I can't sleep, so decided to hide out here instead, lol.
SJ
xox