Ruby Ruby Ruby

[Bittersweettwit]

Hi Supernatural fans

So Supernatural Season 3 began a few weeks ago where I live. Tomorrow night the episode Sin City will be airing and ever since the Season has begun. I have found the episodes to be some of the best that I have seen of Supernatural and because of this they also left me with a lot of thoughts and theories.

What I want to talk about is the character of Ruby, as of this point I know that Ruby is a demon who for unknown reasons wants to stick close to Sam and even help him get Dean out of the deal or so she claims. We also know that she has a thing for weapons that can kill demons including the clot and the weapon that she used in The Magnificent Seven to kill the three demons.

However there are plenty of things that we don't know about Ruby such as where was she during the first two seasons during the war with the yellow-eyed demon. What side was she rooting for back then, did she want him to win, or was she always in favour of the boys winning. While we are on that issue what exactly is her agenda for wanting to help the boys now? Is it simply a matter of wanting to stick by Sam who despite his claims of no longer having the visions seems to hold a position of importance in the demonic world? Or does she have something completely different up her sleeve to fulfil her agenda?

To start the discussion off I think the best thing to do is for me to provide some of my own theories. I know that there are Americans here on the board that will be several episodes ahead of where I am and so may know the answer to these questions. If this is the case could you simply post your initial thoughts and theories about her so that I can remain unspoiled while having an enjoyable conversation I have two different thoughts about Ruby. The first one and one I have heard others expressed is that Ruby was originally an underling of the Yellow Eyed Demon possibly even the same demon as Meg as they share a number of mannerisms. If this is the case I think it is possible that she is either looking to revive the YED or fulfil any other unfinished plans with herself as the head of Demons.

The second theory that I have and one that likely makes sense is that Ruby and the YED never got along when he was alive. It is quite possible that both demons both held dominance for power. One that in the past the Yellow Eyed Demon won stopping Ruby from seeking to take power of demon armies. Now that the threat of the Yellow Eyed Demon is gone however she now wishes to do just that or possibly something even more evil. I think that it is quite possible that despite Sam's claim of no more vision that the demonic blood he had still ties him to the yellow-eyed demons power in a sense. If this is true then perhaps Ruby needs Sam to fulfil her goals.

Now that I have discussed what I think could be Ruby thoughts and motivations. I also thought it would be fun to discuss what your impression of the character was when you first saw her and what you think now that the character has been in the show longer. For me when I first saw Ruby in the magnificent seven I was just edging on rolling my eyes when she said her "I am the girl who just saved your ass line" Everything about her at the time made me think Buffy wannabe and that just left me disappointed with the writers who I think do an excellent job with the show. Why else would I watch it

However in The Kids Are Alright the writers completely proved me wrong and showed their usual excellence in characterisation. I thought the first sense we see her when she appears out of nowhere keeping cryptic while alerting Sam to the fact that there is work to be done. Then we see her again with Sam at the end of the episode and we get to see more of the character that we loved. I also love the fact that unlike the Yellow Eyed Demon and various other demons who try straightforward threats to get what they want. She approaches it completely differently through dangling the one thing that she knows Sam wants right in front of him.

Another impression that I got from the Ruby and Sam senses was that the chemistry between Jared and Katie Cassidy was excellent. I along with friends of mine think that an excellent plot to explore would be feelings developing between the two. It would allow for us to see more of the darker side of Sam and perhaps add to the theme of Sam being brought back wrong. Whether this will ever happen or not. I don't know. So in conclusion I think Ruby is an excellent character that I can't wait to see more of

[galathea]

Another impression that I got from the Ruby and Sam senses was that the chemistry between Jared and Katie Cassidy was excellent. I along with friends of mine think that an excellent plot to explore would be feelings developing between the two. It would allow for us to see more of the darker side of Sam and perhaps add to the theme of Sam being brought back wrong. Whether this will ever happen or not. I don't know. So in conclusion I think Ruby is an excellent character that I can't wait to see more of

I actually see no erotic chemistry between those two characters at all and I think a 'romantic' relationship is nearly impossible with the status of demons in the show, especially given Sam's hate of demons in S3. Even if Ruby wasn't an all evil demon and would actually follow a positive agenda, the fact remains that she possesses the body of an innocent, and after she got shot quite possible dead, girl, that alone would make feelings and/or sexual relations between them really distasteful. I mean, okay necrophilia is kinda canon in SN but I really don't see that with one of the main characters. If Sam actually goes evil all the way, all bets regarding that topic are off though.

Similar to you I hated Ruby with fiery passion when she appeared in TM7 but fast adjusted to the character in TKAA. My verdict on her character is still open, she can turn out to be very interesting but she can also become annoying very fast. Depends on how she is handled. As I said in another thread, while I think that overall Ruby's character integration in S3 worked well, it annoys me that in 2 out of 3 times in which she appeared she was used as kind of a deus ex machina, a convenient tool to help the boys out of their predicament and I find the prospect of that continuing not appealing. An all powerful demonic ally to win this war kind of cheapens the whole war storyline for me. Also, the prospect of her being the ultimate tool to get Dean out of his deal really irks me to no end, because I really think it's important for Sam's character to find a way to save his brother out of his own strength. So that's the negative end of the spectrum for Ruby's character for me.

As for the rest, I am not big on speculations on the demonic hierarchy, maybe someone else wants to share their opinion on that.

[Llywela]

I'd like to second everything Galathea just said

However there are plenty of things that we don't know about Ruby such as where was she during the first two seasons during the war with the yellow-eyed demon. What side was she rooting for back then, did she want him to win, or was she always in favour of the boys winning. While we are on that issue what exactly is her agenda for wanting to help the boys now? Is it simply a matter of wanting to stick by Sam who despite his claims of no longer having the visions seems to hold a position of importance in the demonic world? Or does she have something completely different up her sleeve to fulfil her agenda?

The show is being deliberately vague about Ruby so far, and I'm enjoying the intrigue. Sam knows next to nothing about her, and that only adds to the power she has over him - all he has to go on is what she has told him, which is very little and pretty much at odds with most of what he knows about demons. He knows that she has to have all kinds of a dark agenda of her own, but has no way of knowing what that agenda is or what her motivations are.

I have two different thoughts about Ruby. The first one and one I have heard others expressed is that Ruby was originally an underling of the Yellow Eyed Demon possibly even the same demon as Meg as they share a number of mannerisms. If this is the case I think it is possible that she is either looking to revive the YED or fulfil any other unfinished plans with herself as the head of Demons.

I very much doubt that this is the same demon as Meg - last time we encountered that demon, in BUABS, it was operating in a very different manner than Ruby, having broken away from the YED's plans in order to pursue it's own desire for revenge against Dean, who it hates with a fiery vengeance. Although there are some similarities in manner - which could be said for every demon we've met so far - I don't see it turning out to be the same demon.

I suspect that Ruby may very well be one of the demons that was released from hell in AHBL, which is one reason for her not having been around prior to that. Or, she has been free in the world for a long time, but never had occasion to encounter the Winchesters before. I tend to lean toward the theory that she's an upwardly mobile demon looking to take advantage of the power vaccuum left by the YED's death, and that she sees Sam's vulnerability as the perfect way to achieve greater power.

I think that it is quite possible that despite Sam's claim of no more vision that the demonic blood he had still ties him to the yellow-eyed demons power in a sense. If this is true then perhaps Ruby needs Sam to fulfil her goals.

Although Sam clearly believes that his powers have gone now that the YED is dead, I've always had my doubts. After all, he only ever had a handful of premonitions in two seasons, so it isn't new for him to go months without anything. And having seen what happened to his fellow 'special children' and what the YED did to him in infancy, it is hardly surprising that he'd repress and deny his abilities harder than ever. The demon population still clearly feels that there is something very special about him, and is divided between those who are delighted to exploit the freedom that the YED's demise allows them, and those who would dearly love Sam to take his destined place as their leader. Where Ruby is concerned, my feeling at present is that she is trying to steer him down that latter path, that she wants to use him to learn more about the YED's plans, and then hopes to boost her own power and standing by working at his side if he turns. I imagine her plans are flexible, though - getting information via Sam could be enough for her, depending on what she learns and what happens down the track.

[Ehlwyen]

I love Ruby! And although my usertitle isn't a reference to her, I do continue to keep it since it reminds me of her.

I loved Ruby from the very beginning. Stalking Sam down the sidewalk is such a beautiful study in motion. I rewind the scene a couple times usually. And I adore how she comes in and saves Sam and nonchalantly leaves him there asking who was that masked chick.

Ruby has her own agenda and that autonomy makes her an interesting character since the Winchester gang (that includes Bobby) has warily allied with her. She plays safe and helpful, but any moment she could turn on them. That element of unknown danger keeps the plotline unpredictable.

I won't go into further discussion of who her demon may be since Sin City (especially) and the next episode Bedtime Stories do have some key reveals.

I do love the chemistry between Ruby and Sam. I don't want to see Sam "seduced" into the darkside by a relationship with Ruby. However, if he was to go darkside, I would be quite intrigued by how she tried to use Sam, as a pawn or partner.

[Bittersweettwit]

I actually see no erotic chemistry between those two characters at all and I think a 'romantic' relationship is nearly impossible with the status of demons in the show, especially given Sam's hate of demons in S3. Even if Ruby wasn't an all evil demon and would actually follow a positive agenda, the fact remains that she possesses the body of an innocent, and after she got shot quite possible dead, girl, that alone would make feelings and/or sexual relations between them really distasteful. I mean, okay necrophilia is kinda canon in SN but I really don't see that with one of the main characters. If Sam actually goes evil all the way, all bets regarding that topic are off though.

Your right when thinking of it in real life terms the idea of Sam going out with someone or something that is technically dead is kind of gross, but the world of Supernatural is different. When demons are possessing humans the human body is left perfectly preserved. As for the matter of Sam hatred for demons the same could be said for Dean and yet in Sin City it is clear that despite demon knowing that the demon is evil and needs to be killed he has clearly developed feelings for it in a sense as he clearly didn't want Sam to kill them. This development happened with them being stuck alone for a matter of hours. Are you saying that it isn't possible for Sam to develop similar if not stronger feelings for Ruby as he comes into contact with her more and more.

As for the matter of Sam going dark side I agree all bets are off though it is likely that Sam would become the leader with Ruby as his second in command. However I do not think that the writers will go down this road, but will instead use Ruby as a tool for showing Sam temptation to the dark side and teasing us the viewers with the question did Sam come back wrong?

Similar to you I hated Ruby with fiery passion when she appeared in TM7 but fast adjusted to the character in TKAA. My verdict on her character is still open, she can turn out to be very interesting but she can also become annoying very fast. Depends on how she is handled. As I said in another thread, while I think that overall Ruby's character integration in S3 worked well, it annoys me that in 2 out of 3 times in which she appeared she was used as kind of a deus ex machina, a convenient tool to help the boys out of their predicament and I find the prospect of that continuing not appealing. An all powerful demonic ally to win this war kind of cheapens the whole war storyline for me. Also, the prospect of her being the ultimate tool to get Dean out of his deal really irks me to no end, because I really think it's important for Sam's character to find a way to save his brother out of his own strength. So that's the negative end of the spectrum for Ruby's character for me.

Yeah I agree with everything you said in particular about the power that Ruby holds. If Ruby continues in this role as all knowing all-powerful ally I could see myself becoming bored with the show fast. I love Supernatural, but one of the things I have always loved about it and other shows such as Buffy is watching the main characters struggle with events, go through tough situations and grow as characters. What I would like to see happen is perhaps Ruby will lead Sam in the right direction, but that is all. I hope that the writers let Sam figure out how to save Dean through his own abilities and talents and with some minor help from Ruby and Bobby.

I suspect that Ruby may very well be one of the demons that was released from hell in AHBL, which is one reason for her not having been around prior to that. Or, she has been free in the world for a long time, but never had occasion to encounter the Winchesters before. I tend to lean toward the theory that she's an upwardly mobile demon looking to take advantage of the power vaccuum left by the YED's death, and that she sees Sam's vulnerability as the perfect way to achieve greater power.

I actually disagree with the idea of Ruby being released from Hell at the end of AHBL. In my opinion she seems to know a hell of a lot more than most of the demons that we have encountered so far and obviously knows where to go to get her hand on the best of weapons. Actually wouldn't it be interesting, if we learnt that Ruby helped with the original construction of the colt. Unlikely to happen, but would definitely be interesting. I agree though about thinking that Ruby wanting to take advantage of the power vacuum that has been left behind. The question is, is she just looking for Sam to take his position as leader with her being at his right hand, or is she looking to use Sam somehow to place herself in the position of leader. At the moment I am leaning towards wanting Sam to be leader as I think if it were simply a matter of killing him, or forcing him to do something she'd try by now.

Although Sam clearly believes that his powers have gone now that the YED is dead, I've always had my doubts. After all, he only ever had a handful of premonitions in two seasons, so it isn't new for him to go months without anything. And having seen what happened to his fellow 'special children' and what the YED did to him in infancy, it is hardly surprising that he'd repress and deny his abilities harder than ever. The demon population still clearly feels that there is something very special about him, and is divided between those who are delighted to exploit the freedom that the YED's demise allows them, and those who would dearly love Sam to take his destined place as their leader. Where Ruby is concerned, my feeling at present is that she is trying to steer him down that latter path, that she wants to use him to learn more about the YED's plans, and then hopes to boost her own power and standing by working at his side if he turns. I imagine her plans are flexible, though - getting information via Sam could be enough for her, depending on what she learns and what happens down the track.

I agree completely with what you said about Sam still having his powers. Although I wouldn't go as far as to say that I would be expecting Sam to have a vision any time soon. But I think that the power Sam has will always be in him lying dormant. After all we learn that in AHBL what the demon did to Sam wasn't simply a spell, but rather he completely alerted Sam by mixing his blood in with Sams own blood. Like I said previously in relation to Ruby's plan I think that she wants to convert him and take a place as his right hand woman.

[galathea]

Your right when thinking of it in real life terms the idea of Sam going out with someone or something that is technically dead is kind of gross, but the world of Supernatural is different. When demons are possessing humans the human body is left perfectly preserved. As for the matter of Sam hatred for demons the same could be said for Dean and yet in Sin City it is clear that despite demon knowing that the demon is evil and needs to be killed he has clearly developed feelings for it in a sense as he clearly didn't want Sam to kill them. This development happened with them being stuck alone for a matter of hours. Are you saying that it isn't possible for Sam to develop similar if not stronger feelings for Ruby as he comes into contact with her more and more.

It's not a matter of a preserved body. The matter is that the Ruby demon violated a human person in taking over control, forcing that person to live in the shell of her body. Sam would be the first to know how that loss of control feels for the possessed person. If the girl that Ruby 'took over' is still alive after Bobby shot her, Sam having sex with Ruby is technically rape, since the person that body belongs to can't give consent. I just find the notion of Sam or Dean having sexual relations with a possessed person distasteful.

I highly doubt that Dean developed 'feelings' for Casey. In my opinion his hesitation to kill her stems from a) her own plea to her partner to spare Dean's life, showing a compassion he wouldn't expect from a demon b) the regard of the life of the innocent girl Casey that the demon was possessing. Casey was no direct thread. It would theroretically have been possible to try and exorcise her, if Sam hadn't been so quick to shoot, espcially given the fact that Dean knew that the Casey demon was a willing follower of Sam's. At the moment I actually really think it's not possible for either Sam or Dean to develop romantic feelings for a demon, based on the grounds that they are perceived as evil and that in order for the demons to walk on earth they violate human beings every time.