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3x01 "The Magnificent Seven" discussion

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  • 3x01 "The Magnificent Seven" discussion

    What the? All the die hard SN fans on this board and no one's got a thread going. I am shocked!

    What did y'all think? I rather enjoyed it. And my fiance, who has only seen an ep here or there, watched it with me and was all like "I need to watch this show more." I was catching him up on the mythology and whatnot.

    I'm not diving into spoilers too much. I am only a spoilerwhore for Lost really. So I don't know much about this Katie Cassidy character but I am totally wondering who this chick is and what her deal is.

    I love Dean's devil-may-care (no pun intended, I swear! ) attitude about life. He sees no real way out but to just give into the deal he made and make the best of it. Jensen plays this very well.

    Good to see Bobby's still around. Gotta love him. Even my fiance was digging him. I hope we see him lots this season. Don't kill him off, TPTB!
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  • #2
    Haven't had the chance to see the ep yet... still waiting to see it. How was it? Anything "darker" about Sam?
    Last edited by Cori; 05-10-07, 11:26 AM. Reason: Mentioning illegal activities!

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    • #3
      Darker? Not sure. One of villians this week mentioned that now that the yellow-eyed demon is dead the other demons don't have to worry about Sam anymore, that he is fair game.

      Also, I am wondering if perhaps this new chick is simply protecting Sam for some reason. First she is following him, then she is saving him. The question is, why?
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      • #4
        Hehe, sorry Jenni Lou, us europeans only get to see the episode on friday, so it takes a while 'til we can join the episode threads!

        Okay, so I have to do this review backwards, because the last scene in this episode is pure love and it was what I was waiting for in this season premiere and it kind of made good on some of the points that I didn't like about this episode.

        Dean: "It's like there is a light at the end of the tunnel!"
        Sam "It's hellfire, Dean!"


        As predicted after AHBL II Dean is floating on a high: the YED is dead, his mother revenged, his father freed from damnation, Sam is alive, the natural order of things (disrupted by John's sacrifice for his life) is set right again. He sacrificed over and over again for his family, for their job, for the safety of other people and the finality of his deal puts a stop to that and he feels unburdened for the first time in a long time. I love that he feels entitled to a bit of selfishness after everything he's done over the years, formulating for the first time to wanting something for himself: the opportunity to live the life that he has left to the fullest, without reprimands. He is unapologetic, he has no regrets and I think he has the right to feel that way.

        I adore that he doesn't feels the urge anymore to keep things from Sam, openly laying out to him the specifics of the deal, fierce in his statement, that he personally will stop Sam if he tries to get Dean out of his deal, intent on not letting Sam's determination to save Dean endanger Sam's life, thus effectively extending the demon's terms, to not being allowed to weasel his way out of the deal, to Sam. It's very understandable from his point of view that he cannot risk Sam dropping dead only on the slightest chance that the demon's terms were only bound to him personally and not to everyone who would try to get him out.

        On the other hand he also forces Sam into hiding with this stance. I guess it is fair to say that it's very unlikely that Sam will just let it go and with Dean announcing that he is willing to sabotage Sam's actions, he needs to keep his efforts hidden. That doesn't bode well for an open relationship between the brothers this season. As the little exchange at the end also shows, their different foci also leads to diverging opinions on how to proceed.

        While it is shown repeatedly during this episode that Sam clearly feels guilty for the fact that the demon army was set free, torn between the different tasks he defines as his very responsibility: saving Dean, sending the army back to hell, Dean, for all intents and purposes is in for the excitement of hunting, but also feels the right to follow his hedonistic urges, which ultimately may lead to him crossing Sam's plans more than once, like their disagreement over Louisiana or Reno clearly shows.

        Sam is frustrated, angry and desperate as he learns the specifics of the deal, calling Dean openly on his hypocrisy and selfishness of his actions, rightfully so. What I love about this exchange is that, not unlike their dialogue in ?Shadow', there is no absolute right or wrong to either Sam's or Dean's side in this, both are entitled to their feelings and right and wrong in their own way, and what they need to find is a compromise that allows both of them to live with the consequences. I can't see Dean being fine with seeing how much Sam is hurting over the long haul, and I can't see Sam being okay with reflecting his own burdens back to his brother.

        I think he honestly means it, when he says in the beginning of the episode that he thinks Dean deserves to have a little fun. He tries to be the good little brother, the saviour, the hunter, but without Dean's support he will soon be emotionally drained. Which leads me to one of the scenes that I am not so fond of: Dean in the store, trying to make fun of his deal in front of Sam in order to coax him into letting him off the hook for flirting with a witness. While Dean might have a carefree attitude in general, that was outright mean and Sam is visibly crushed and weary. To guilt-trip Sam into an all-out-of-the-jail free-card is harsh even for Dean, who can be unsubtle and direct at times, but never is mean on purpose.

        With that said, while I get Dean's carefree attitude and find it totally in character, the way Ackles plays it slightly over the top and how Dean confronts the issue of his near-death permanently as a joke, it reminds me of Dean's behaviour in ELAC, trying so hard to appear okay, but failing spectacularly to be convincing all the way. It's a known way for Dean to deal with things he'd rather bury deep, by way of joking about them, so while I was at first a bit irritated by his nonchalance, I now interpret it as Dean partly trying to keep the more frightening aspects of his deal under control. So I reserve my full judgement on his behaviour for when we are a bit into the season, when all the facets of his dealing process should be revealed, step by step.

        There is a very short moment at the cabin, right before the demons attack, where the brothers are alone, preparing for what's coming, when Sam and Dean just share a silent look with each other, so much intensity, concern and understanding flows between them in that wonderful subtle moment, that it emphasizes very much, how Ackles slightly over-the-top acting of Dean is a deliberate acting choice. Contrasts like this show how much care the actors bring into how they depict their roles. It's important for the viewer to see that, so he can judge Dean's behaviour better and they do a terrific job with that.

        While the tension between the brothers is perpetually tangible just so beneath the surface, they are also still totally brothers in the best of ways, bantering and from time to time even exhibiting easy contact with each other, for example when Sam startles Dean and Bobby and being very giddy about it. Adorable! Aww Sammy, how I missed ya! With at least some of his burdens from last year taken from him as well, especially the ominous threat of possibly going over to the evil side, without being able to control it, he may be able to breathe a little easier from time to time now, coming stronger out of the ordeal of last season, even if he is burdened by new responsibilities. At least, no sign of him not being 100% Sammy so far. Thank god!

        Overall: With Sam possibly being crushed under the burdens and feelings of guilt in the near future and Dean, who won't be able to keep up his carefree attitude forever, sooner or later inevitably being confronted with feelings of fear and uncertainty as the end draws nearer, the brother's dynamics again have turned tables from last year's and will be exciting to watch. My boys are back!

        Bobby: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son!"

        Just for the record: The phrase "my boys" from now on officially comprises Bobby, he may be a non-Winchester but hell, he would make a formidable one! Bobby is the voice of reason and caution, a life-time of experience and knowledge behind him and he is a valuable ally for the boys. He is obviously deeply troubled by the magnitude of what the release of the demon army means to the world and the hunter community, not convinced that they will make it out of this confrontation as the winning party in the end, but he keeps a cool head and I love how he more or less takes leadership in this episode.

        Sam and Dean easily accept and respect his judgement and superior knowledge and turn to him like they would to John, I love that. Only that Bobby can treat them more as equals as John ever could, because he was always seeing his children as well. Bobby is a good example on how you can create a character that makes it believable for the boys to surrender leadership to, without making them look weak. We know Sam and Dean can handle themselves well and are a fantastic team, still, to know when to listen to someone else is an important trait as well. I love the puzzled glances they throw each other when Bobby yells at Tamara. Bobby rocks! Sorry it has to be said over and over!

        The overall plot of ?The Magnificent Seven' was thrilling and they stepped up their game this year, in terms of special effects (and gore, I hope that's no trend for the rest of the season though). Although I found it a bit disappointing that although they were not killable (which, btw was only possible with the Colt before anyway, so no news there) they could just easily send back to hell, I wished they would've been a bit harder to defeat (see my end statement).

        What I found especially interesting was the confrontation between Sam and the demon Pride! Confirming openly that he was the prodigy and boy-king of the YED, implying that he was off game for other demons because he stood under the protection of the YED. Chatty lot those demons! As I assumed earlier, Sam as the last of the psychic children standing is the army's leader, if he wants it or not. It will be interesting to see how that plays out over the season. If Pride's reaction is anything to go on, the demons are obviously not overly happy to bow to a human. There are troubled times ahead!

        What else is squee-worthy in this episode:
        New title card! YAY!! I adore it. I love that we get a new title every season, giving each season a distinct ?face' and tone, lightning, fire and now devil's traps and demon armies! Fab!

        Sam, Dean and Bobby communicating via silent army codes! So much love for that detail! We never saw them use it to that extent before, but it totally makes sense, what with John being a marine and all. I am just totally in love with all those code-words and contingency plans and I love how naturally they fall into that.

        Sam reading Dr. Faustus at the beginning of the episode (geek!) while Dean was having a little ?fun' made me incredibly giddy, what with Faust making a deal with the devil and then savouring the pleasures of life and all. Let's just hope Dean's deal doesn't end quite as tragic as that one.

        So, at the end the one really serious critique I have with this episode: Ruby!
        It's like they deliberately want to piss the fan base off with introducing her like that. I'm sorry, but she wasn't introduced as a character but as a cheap deus-ex machina: conveniently getting our heroes out of a severe predicament, mysterious super-woman waltzing in with a wonder weapon, slicing off 3 demons, throwing a really aggravating, stupid oneliner towards Sam and then vanishing again, I mean, c'mon! To cite Kripke: lame, lame, lame!

        I don't know what to make of that and I really thought they would know better by now. It throws me totally off the character and I really tried to keep an open mind about her. Sorry, not like that! If you want to create a character, make her real, make her tangible, give her believable interaction with the characters the audience knows. It doesn't matter if you want to make her foe or friend, she needs to be a person and not some Buffy-Wannabe.

        So overall this was a good episode, a good season opener, even though it doesn't pack quite as much of a punch like IMTOD did. The character arcs that were loosely laid out in AHBL II were picked up and shaped more clearly and we got a glimpse into the mytharc plotline about how the demons released into the world may operate. Season 3 roll on!
        Last edited by galathea; 05-10-07, 07:27 PM.

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        • #5
          Sooooo happy to have the boys back. Hiatus is way too long. And there was so much potential goodness for the third season set up by the ending of the second, the waiting to find out if that potential would be paid off and lived up to has made it seem longer still! Maybe not the strongest episode ever, but not the weakest either, not by a long shot: it was a whole lot of fun.

          Oh boys. Loved them both so very, very much in this. There's an army of demons just got unleashed on the world, and Dean only has a year left to live, and yet it was like all their burdens had just rolled right off them.

          Dean especially, of course. He's finally and completely discharged all that responsibility that's been hanging over his head for such a long time - most of his life, some of it - relieved himself of the burdens that weighed him down so heavily last season. He's saved Sam, seen his father find eternal rest, and killed the Yellow-Eyed Demon that had destroyed his family. He's practically giddy with relief. That's the best part of 24 years of hard work, pain and responsibility off his shoulders at last, and his light-hearted relief follows on well from where we left him at the end of All Hell Breaks Loose, still riding the incredible adrenaline high of an impossible task successfully accomplished. With one year left on the clock, and counting, he wants to cut loose and have a little fun wherever possible, and who can blame him?

          Trying a little too hard at times to convince that he's absolutely okay with it all? That too. And that's very Dean. It kind of surprised me at first that he would so openly talk about having only one year left to live, rubbing it in for Sam. But he said it so often, over and over, that it started to make sense. He's using direct confrontation of the issue to avoid the issue. Like if he says it often enough he can convince Sam - and Bobby - that it really is real, and there really is no way out, and he's good with that. The more he says it, the more uncomfortable they are with confronting him about it, which suits him just fine. Until Sam finally snaps and calls him on it.

          Sam was just gorgeous in this episode. I've never loved him more. Because he's also riding the post-YED high, the weight just rolling off his shoulders, but with a brand new focus for his obsessive-compulsive tendencies added. Sam was practically paralysed with fear for so much of last season - fear of what the YED had planned for him, fear of what he might turn into - I'd almost forgotten how much fun he can be when he relaxes. He had such wonderfully playful moments in this episode - freaking Dean out by banging on the car door, and then shoving the seat forward with Dean still in it so he could get into the back standing out among them. Hee!

          Sam's not sinking into hopeless broodiness over Dean's deal and fate, as he might have in the past. Having resisted everything the YED threw at him, he's found strength he never knew he had, stiffening his resolve to save the brother who gave up literally everything he had to save him. And I love that about him. He's still got doubts and he's still got fears - what Pride had to say to him about being the YED's golden boy, the chosen king of the demons, but not recognised as such with the YED now dead, that's intriguing, a subplot to be returned to later no doubt - but he's grown up a huge amount in one fell swoop, and it looks good on him.

          Oh, and Bobby!! Man, they surgically removed him from his cap in this episode! I didn't recognise him in the suit at first, it was so un-Bobby a costume. Heh. Bobby is officially cemented in the hearts of fans as the best recurring character ever, and long may he continue so. I think the fact that he was introduced organically, and then continued from there, makes the big difference. He wasn't a character dreamed up in advance, with plots then twisted around to fit his introduction in. He grew out of the storyline, was introduced in the course of the action, rather than as a sideline to that action, and is unbelievably awesome. He's so very freaked out by what they are all facing, but unbowed, resolved to keep fighting no matter what, but the enormity of it all is showing through here and there. Like that scene when he yelled at Tamara, that was excellent. He's the voice of reason, striking the note of caution where younger heads would just rush on in, and that is sorely needed.

          Was a bit miffed, mind, that Isaac and Tamara were blaming the boys - and Bobby, I guess - for all those demons being released in the first place. The Yellow-Eyed Demon was an ancient, powerful evil that had been planning this for generations. Yes, they were there when it all played out, and yes, they were unable to prevent the devil's gate being opened. But they did the best they could - I'd like to have seen Isaac and Tamara, for example, doing any better, since they didn't exactly cover themselves with glory in this episode. And Dean killed the Yellow-Eyed Demon, which means that the worst of his plans have been thwarted. Yes, an army of demons has been unleashed, and mopping that up is going to be ugly, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse. I don't think blaming the soldiers who were on the front line at the time is going to help anyone.

          Have to admit that I didn't like Tamara at all. The mispronunciation of her name didn't help - is that how Americans say it? Rhyming with 'camera'? Because she was a British character, and over here we say it 'Ta-MAH-ra', and it just sounded horribly wrong to me every time her name was spoken. Mostly, though, there was just something about the character that rubbed me up wrong. I think it was the chemistry, or lack thereof, with her husband that did it. They were so lovey-dovey and sickly sweet over their hunting weaponry, and yet didn't convince me at all - all that perfect couple stuff felt like they were trying too hard. I could excuse that as them being awkward in front of strangers. But like I said, they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory as hunters, either. As a couple, I liked Isaac's character a lot better - the actor convinced me a lot more. But Tamara did improve later, once Isaac was dead and she was pitching a fit about it. And I really enjoyed that tiny moment when Sam asked Dean if he thought she'd be all right, and Dean just said no, she definitely wouldn't be. Because he was in her position himself just a week earlier, and he wasn't all right at all.

          I'm...not going to comment on Blondie, whose name I believe is Ruby. I wasn't impressed with her, glad she was only in three scenes, but hope that as we get to know her better and her character is fleshed out more with further run-ins with the brothers, she might grow on me. I wasn't too impressed with Jo when we first met her last season, but grew very fond of her, and regret that we're unlikely to see her again. Ellen wasn't mentioned in this episode - I hope she's gone to reunite with her daughter and patch up their differences. At a time like this, they need each other!

          Um, what else? Love the new titles. Again. Too many tiny beautiful moments to mention here. Really enjoyed the final scene with Sam snapping and confronting Dean about his attitude, calling him on the hypocrisy of his actions, and Dean unashamedly admitting that it was selfish, but not caring in the slightest. The entire course of Dean's life has been shaped by the decisions other people have made, and now, for just about the first time ever, he's been the one to make the huge decision, to choose what he wants. And what he wants is for Sam to live, end of story, no matter what the cost. It costs his life? Fine, he gets to rest at last. And he's still being flippant about it, won't do any more than skim the surface of the intense emotion, that awful despair, that drove him to make that deal.

          Yeah, it's going to be a fabulous season.

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          • #6
            Finally watched it because of the dreaded work last night, but I have so missed my show. *huggles show* Boys!!

            I just woke up and watched it now so my brain is full of mud but I'll touch on a few points that I remember off hand.

            Loved Dean, as always! I love his completely carefree attitude, doing what he wants and not feeling any shame or guilt that he's taking attention away from the mission. He was definitely much more honest in this episode, about everything, and I loved the guilt trips he was laying on Sam and again, not feeling guilty that Sam folded so quickly and apologized, like when they were in the shop.

            "Apology accepted!" Bam!

            But then we get to the end and Sam confronts Dean about how he feels and this end scene really sets up their relationship for the rest of the season, IMO, because Sam turns everything around on Dean, but then Dean just doesn't care that he's selfish. He made a decision that he knows is right for him, so the fact that he can have one more year with Sam is more than enough for him. I loved his 'tired' speech, that he was just ready to lay down, regardless of where he ends up. One thing that I adore about Kripke is he makes points on both of their sides and makes me love each and every one, agree with every one, and wish that the world was perfect so they could each get what they wanted. Yeesh.

            Bobby! Looooved Bobby, again! Frak, he's been the best addition (who's not an actual addition) to this show. I love that they kept that father figure there for the boys, someone who they can fall back on for advice or connections or help in their current situations.

            And new hunters, who brought up fantastic points about what happened with the Devil's Gate. It's hard to think that so many got out, but this is a different 'verse and that many against as few hunters as there are is suicide. I adored the idea of the demon clouds hovering over cities, just taking human bodies and waiting. How ominous and forboding. As for the idea of the seven deadly sins, I thought it was lovely, especially how they all stuck together, like family, and came after the boys when 'Envy' was taken. Who else thought that 'Lust' would come after Dean and that it wouldn't effect him (that much)? Silly Dean!

            As for our new blonde chick, I think that is Ruby, I don't know. I hope she has a chunky past to support those haunted eyes she's sporting or else she might be a boring character, but this is Kripke so I don't see that happening. And what a neat knife! I want one (if I ever did go demon hunting). I can't wait to see where her character goes, when we get the new girl in, what the heck that knife is and where it came from and the other groovy demons that came from the Gate.

            Overall, this is going to be a fantastic season. Starting off strong (of course not as gut-wrenching as IMTOD, but still has the strong emotions running high underneath), I am so happy to have our show back. I hate summer for this very reason, .

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            • #7
              Originally posted by galathea View Post
              With that said, while I get Dean's carefree attitude and find it totally in character, the way Ackles plays it slightly over the top and how Dean confronts the issue of his near-death permanently as a joke, it reminds me of Dean's behaviour in ELAC, trying so hard to appear okay, but failing spectacularly to be convincing all the way.
              I think you hit the nail on the head. I thought Jensen played it perfectly actually and that the over-the-topness was merely a defense mechanism he is using to avoig the reality of his situation.

              Bobby: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son!"
              My fiance too!


              What else is squee-worthy in this episode:
              New title card! YAY!! I adore it. I love that we get a new title every season, giving each season a distinct ?face' and tone, lightning, fire and now devil's traps and demon armies! Fab!
              I said the same thing. This cloudy one is super cool looking. LOVE IT!


              Sam reading Dr. Faustus at the beginning of the episode (geek!) while Dean was having a little ?fun' made me incredibly giddy, what with Faust making a deal with the devil and then savouring the pleasures of life and all. Let's just hope Dean's deal doesn't end quite as tragic as that one.
              I didn't catch that! That's a very Lost-like thing to do. Cool!


              Originally posted by Llywela View Post
              It kind of surprised me at first that he would so openly talk about having only one year left to live, rubbing it in for Sam. But he said it so often, over and over, that it started to make sense. He's using direct confrontation of the issue to avoid the issue. Like if he says it often enough he can convince Sam - and Bobby - that it really is real, and there really is no way out, and he's good with that. The more he says it, the more uncomfortable they are with confronting him about it, which suits him just fine. Until Sam finally snaps and calls him on it.
              I hadn't thought of it like that. It seemed to me the writers were drilling it in so that new viewers could catch up. It seems like a CW memo: "We need more of an audience. Make sure the mythology makes sense to them." *shrugs* I like your thinking though.

              Bobby is officially cemented in the hearts of fans as the best recurring character ever, and long may he continue so.
              I'm with you on that!


              Was a bit miffed, mind, that Isaac and Tamara were blaming the boys - and Bobby, I guess - for all those demons being released in the first place.
              I didn't mention it but me as well. What makes them think they know it all anyway. Anything they hear is subject to scrutiny because they were not there and don't know the truth. Just my opinion.


              The mispronunciation of her name didn't help - is that how Americans say it? Rhyming with 'camera'? Because she was a British character, and over here we say it 'Ta-MAH-ra', and it just sounded horribly wrong to me every time her name was spoken.
              More often than not, yes. But it is pronounced both ways; it just depends on who named their daughters that and how they personally pronounced it for them.

              I wasn't too impressed with Jo when we first met her last season, but grew very fond of her, and regret that we're unlikely to see her again.
              Me too! I really grew to like her.


              Great posts, y'all! I don't have the patience to sit and write something so well thought out. 1. I got a baby. 2. I prefer to write in smaller thoughts, less-fleshed out thoughts nowadays. 3. I defintely don't have as much to say as you uber-fans!
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              • #8
                Woah! There is no way I'm writing that much, guys! Just a little bit of thoughts

                Anyways, I really liked this episode, a lot!

                I absolutely love Bobby joining the boys in their hunt! Bobby is such a father figure and could never replace John, but he certainly helps the boys through tough times. And even when John was alive, Bobby was there more often and the boys counted on him much more! I can't wait to see more interaction with him and the boys!

                Second off, I loved Dean's care free attitude! I love he's finally being wild and just letting loose, knowing that he gave his life for everything else and he deserves doing what he wants! I love that!

                That new Australian hunter is great, imo. Also, I love Morpheus It's Isaac or something, I know I didn't think Morpheus would die and I was very disappointed. I was REALLY interested to see more interaction between him and the boys! I loved how Morpheus was blaming them and how they were getting into an argument. But, I'm also intrigued about that girl's past! The whole demon with him talking about letting their daughter die! :-o! I want to see more!

                I thought the plot was very amazing! Very, very amazing! The whole idea of the seven deadly sins and how Sam knew exactly which one was Pride But I hated the mysterious girl coming in and ruining that action scene! It was way too easy! She annihilated three of them in less than fifteen seconds! Come on! And I was really looking forward to Sammy vs. Pride

                Also, I love the uses of Devil's Traps in this show. 'nough said.

                And, the final scene....ah, I loved it! It was the moment I was waiting for throughout the whole premiere! Dean was making jokes about it through the whole episode and I was really waiting for that talk....and it came....and I loved it

                Also, holy crap! Those are some wicked new opening titles! I love the blueish look to them

                Overall? Very strong opener, and I want me some more Season 3!

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                • #9
                  SQUEEEE! I finally got to watch the eppy tonight.

                  First off out of the cage - HELLS BELLS to recap last season...great, perfect song choice, and so fitting with the series and the scenes chosen!

                  I LOVED Dean in this eppy...the bacon cheeseburger in the morning, the doublemint fun, and no offense Chris, but I was LMAO at his 'coughing' in the department store about his only a year left to live guilt trip on Sam...good ol' Dean... But like you said, I too think he's using the humor as a cover-up mask for the worry and fear. But like Dean stated it in the last scene, he also sees it as a light at the end of the tunnel - hell fires or no - he's tired, he knows everyone he cares about is as ok as he can make them, so why not just enjoy his last year?

                  I didn't mind Sam all that much in this eppy...there was no whining and very little Dean-recrimination. He actually seemed to act like a man. Who'd a thunk?

                  Ok, Ruby. I'm not so opposed to the idea of her character, and I didn't even mind the Buffy-wannabe-entrance. But the "I'm the girl that just saved your ass" line was the worst intro EVER. I mean ANY line would have been better than that! She could have just smirked at Sam's "Who are you?" question, and then moved onto the second line of "see you around, Sam". I'm a LOT disappointed in the writers for that line. Hopefully they get it better the next time around.

                  I loved the heart to heart at the end of the show. I'm glad that Dean didn't pull any punches as per the past norm and just layed it out on the line for Sam the deal he made at the crossroads. It's time to stop the coddling of Sammy and let him grow up. And I can totally see this from both the brother's POV...it was selfish of Dean, and I loved that Sam threw Dean's reaction to their Dad doing the same thing for him in his face. But I also can totally empathize with Dean's POV, that you would totally sacrifice yourself for your loved ones.

                  The Isaac/Tamera hunter duo wasn't very convincing. My husband commented 'well they sure did kill him off fast'. My reaction to that was - good, because they suck. One aspect that nobody has touched on yet was why did Envy die? Why didn't lust and glutton? I mean Bobby said that those two would make it after the casting-out...so why didn't Envy? I'm wondering if something else occurred while the boys were out of the room during Tamera's exorcism. Hmmm...that's something to ponder over.

                  Overall, I think this was a very good episode, and a great set up for the third season.
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                  • #10
                    As an afterthought: I found it interesting when they mentioned that the demon clouds settled over 17 different cities. Is that number of any significance? Main cities? Cities of supernatural importance? Anyone of you Americans connect anything to that number in terms of cities?

                    Another thing I noticed was that of all possessed people only the one's Dean and Bobby encountered made it out alive. Tamara as well as Ruby were showing absolutely no concern for the innocent people involved in this. Together with the whole debacle that Tamara and Isaac caused at the bar and the ambivalent Roadhouse from last season, it made me think that John's decision to keep his kids as far as possible away from the hunter's community seems to be more and more reasonable, the more hunters we get to know.

                    A great deal of them seems to be ruthless rogues, prejudiced, slightly unhinged and with not much of compassion. With the exception of Bobby (who is more of a research fountain than an actual hunter) we have yet to meet a hunter that I would consider likeable. It's interesting to see how Sam and Dean will fit (or more possibly not fit) into this community, given that they probably will need to cooperate with them in order to take that army out. If Tamara's and Isaac's attitude towards Sam and Dean is anything to go on, I doubt that they will find much of support and back-up there. Another interesting angle for S3 to explore.
                    Last edited by galathea; 06-10-07, 02:32 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by galathea View Post
                      As an afterthought: I found it interesting when they mentioned that the demon clouds settled over 17 different cities. Is that number of any significance? Main cities? Cities of supernatural importance? Anyone of you Americans connect anything to that number in terms of cities?

                      Another thing I noticed was that of all possessed people only the one's Dean and Bobby encountered made it out alive. Tamara as well as Ruby were showing absolutely no concern for the innocent people involved in this. Together with the whole debacle that Tamara and Isaac caused at the bar and the ambivalent Roadhouse from last season, it made me think that John's decision to keep his kids as far as possible away from the hunter's community seems to be more and more reasonable, the more hunters we get to know.

                      A great deal of them seems to be ruthless rogues, prejudiced, slightly unhinged and with not much of compassion. With the exception of Bobby (who is more of a research fountain than an actual hunter) we have yet to meet a hunter that I would consider likeable. It's interesting to see how Sam and Dean will fit (or more possibly not fit) into this community, given that they probably will need to cooperate with them in order to take that army out. If Tamara's and Isaac's attitude towards Sam and Dean is anything to go on, I doubt that they will find much of support and back-up there. Another interesting angle for S3 to explore.
                      1. No, 17 doesn't mean much to me. And we know one settled over Oak Park and I live close to there; it's not a large city. Maybe later we will discover that the 17 cities form some kind of insignia or something.

                      2. Great point! It occurred to me watching the ep last night about how little thought seemed to be given to the human variable. I even mentioned it to my fiance. He said "well, they're demons!" And I had to respond that while that might be true they are also possessing and inhabiting innocent humans.

                      Over the time of the series, human lives have been sacrificed more and more. Perhaps it's the nature of the beast--so to speak--but I found it odd that no one addressed it at all last night, save for the mentioning of the ones that will "make it." On the other hand, exorcising seven, or six as it may be, demons at one time is a little difficult. But you are right...Ruby and Tamara gave no care to the human life.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                        Great point! It occurred to me watching the ep last night about how little thought seemed to be given to the human variable. I even mentioned it to my fiance. He said "well, they're demons!" And I had to respond that while that might be true they are also possessing and inhabiting innocent humans.

                        Over the time of the series, human lives have been sacrificed more and more. Perhaps it's the nature of the beast--so to speak--but I found it odd that no one addressed it at all last night, save for the mentioning of the ones that will "make it." On the other hand, exorcising seven, or six as it may be, demons at one time is a little difficult. But you are right...Ruby and Tamara gave no care to the human life.
                        Well I found it interesting that they had Tamara phrasing her disinterest in the innocent human just the same way as Gordon did in 'Hunted', only a cold 'He didn't make it' (which btw makes me wonder why not, as far as we had seen he sustained no mortal wounds to that point, so I was wondering what Tamara did during the exorcism to have the possessed man dead). That statement put her deliberately into the same league as Gordon and alike hunters for me and it makes me wonder if there are hunters out there that don't view the world as black and white.

                        I thought the human casualties were sufficiently addressed: The mass-grave for the victims (which had VERY grisly associations for me) and Sam and Dean's silent ritual of burning them was intense enough to drive the point of 'victims' home well enough for me. Sam, Dean and Bobby were all visibly shaken up and subdued in the face of the gruesome end result of that encounter.
                        Last edited by galathea; 06-10-07, 01:14 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Look, if we're going down, we're going down together alright

                          Now that is the Winchester spirit we know and love! It's so good to have the boys back, watching this season premiere made me realise how much I had really missed them during this incredibly long hiatus. While I agree with Chris that this season opener was not as good as the season 2 premiere, I still enjoyed it a lot (apart from a few minor things) and it just felt so good to see new adventures of the boys.

                          I started squeeing the very first second of the episode, namely during the Road So Far sequence/season 2 recap which was set to one of my favourite songs: AC/DC's "Hell Bells"! What a greatly fitting song! You gotta love Kripke for his music choices.

                          Then the squeeing continued with the beautiful new title card, all silver and with the devil's trap and clouds, just looks awesome! So cool that we get a new title card each season.

                          The special effects in AHBLII did not really blow me away but I liked them in the teaser of this episode. The way the demons were sweeping over the town in black smoke and possessing that guy who would later be Envy was pretty cool.

                          Then we get a first glance at the Winchesters. It's Sam reading Dr. Faustus which was great because it pretty much tells you right away in what state of mind Sam is, trying to find a way to save his brother. I have to say I liked Sam very much in this episode, more so than usual. I'm glad that we did not see dark, disturbing Sam (as we did in AHBLII) but that he was back to his loving, caring self. Obviously also feeling guilty and conflicted about his part in the opening of the Devil's Gate. When Isaac and Tamara and later on the demons accuse the boys of opening the gate, Sam clearly feels guilty whereas Dean brushes it off. It was also very interesting what the demon Pride (and all the demon for that matter) know about Sam, that he was the prodigy of the YED, the boy-king. But since the YED is no more, Sam is now fair game. Sam looked so young and vulnerable when Pride said that. Beautiful shot of Jared in this scene!

                          As for my beloved Dean: His carefree, hedonistic approach to his situation is very much in character but I agree with Chris, he might try a bit too hard to convince everyone (including himself maybe) that he is fine and that he is having a great time. He is positively giddy and over the top, flirting with every girl he meets. His behaviour made for some funny scenes though: his dancing in the hotel room, Dean saying "I'd love to have an appletini" to some girl and making a face because he is clearly not an appletini kind of guy, he is the beer kind of guy. When Sam is exasperated at Dean because he does not seem to be working the case and then Dean points to the video camera and says to Sam "See? I'm working!", the way Jensen said it really cracked me up.

                          The only time when I was uncomfortable during one of Dean's scenes was when he made that Brad Pitt/Seven joke. I mean Tamara's husband had just died so I thought it was a bit tasteless. I did not like to see Dean being so uncaring.

                          There is this tension between the brothers throughout the episode, a lot of long, concerned glances and meaningful looks, for example when Dean says he wished that the demon war started already and Sam says "I don't know, Dean. Be careful what you wish for." Of course all of this subtext between the brothers is addressed in the very last scene of the episode, which I will talk about later.

                          I loved seeing Bobby again and it's so great how neatly he fits into the show and into the life of the boys. He is such a rich, interesting character and I really hope that we will learn something about his past this season (how he became a hunter etc.). I love that Bobby is slowly becoming a surrogate father to the boys but without being as judgmental and severe as John was. I like that Bobby is so smart and experienced and knows so much about demons etc. The boys can really count themselves lucky to have Bobby in their lives, especially now with this scary demon war. I loved the scene where Bobby was yelling at Tamara and trying to reason with her and then a second later saying that he was sorry for her loss. I had to laugh when I saw Bobby in the suit and without his usual baseball cap, I almost didn't recognise him. And the scene where Bobby traps the fat demon and says "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son" plus his slightly evil smile when he said it, that was just awesome!

                          As for the MOTW, I thought this was one of the more interesting ones. The idea that the seven deadly sins are in fact demons is a pretty cool one. It was creepy to see how Envy operated and how easily human beings were forced into giving in into the deadly sins. I think Envy had a point when he said:

                          "We are not sins, man, we are natural human instincts and you can repress and deny us all you want but the truth is you are just animals. Horny, greedy, hungry, violent animals."

                          I wouldn't go so far to call all human beings animals but I think everyone of us struggles with at least one of the deadly sins in our life.

                          I did not care that much for Isaac and Tamara. They were okay I guess but I was not that interested in them. I found it interesting though that they cast a black couple in the roles of good hunters (well more or less anyway). I hope that will shut up all those people who claim that SN is racist. I wonder whether Kripke knows about that and whether this casting choice was planned by him because of that. Anyway, the one scene with Isaac and the 7 demons where they forced to drink all that drain liquid was very gruesome and one of the most disturbing things that I have seen on SN.

                          I have to admit I fully expected to hate Ruby's entrance into the show but as it turns out, not so much. I liked the way she trailed/stalked Sam at first and Sam being as good as he is notices right away that he is being followed. However, Ruby also seems to be pretty good because she doesn't get caught. Later on when Sam is battling three demons and Ruby shows up with that "magic" knife of hers that apparently can kill any demon, that was a pretty cool scene. I really liked the special effects they created for the knife. The fact that Ruby obviously knows who Sam is of course adds to her mystery. I admit her oneliner was a wee bit cheesy and clich├ęd but I liked her nevertheless. I also had to chuckle when Dean made fun of Sam because a girl fought better than him. So I reserve judgment on Ruby until she has more lines and we really get to know her but I have to say I did not mind her first appearance on the show.

                          I just have to mention the absolutely beautiful shot of the fire (when Dean threw the matches into the grave with the 3 bodies) and with Bobby, Dean and Sam standing in the background! It's scenes/shots like these that give the show its cinematic feel.

                          Which brings me to the last scene of the episode, which I loved so much! Scenes like these are the heart and soul of SN for me and I can squee about such scenes endlessly. Dean finally explaining to Sam in detail what his deal with the crossroads demon entails (that if Dean tries to get out of the deal, Sam will die).

                          Sam's reaction to this news and his subsequent monologue were spot-on IMO:

                          Sam: "You're a hypocrite, Dean. How did you feel when Dad sold his soul for you? 'Cause I was there, I remember. You were twisted and broken and now you're gonna do the same thing to me. What you did was selfish."

                          Dean admits that it was selfish indeed but that he is fine with it since

                          Dean: "After everything I have done for this family, I think I'm entitled."

                          At this point, I was like "damn right you are, Dean". He has sacrificed so much for his family and I'm happy that for once in his life he thinks about himself as well. He has always pushed his own needs into the background, Dad and Sam always came first for Dean, which was of course not very healthy for Dean's own wellbeing and state of mind. He had so many things to deal with in his life, he has struggled for so long, it's no surprise that he says:

                          Dean: "The truth is I'm tired, Sam. There's a light at the end of the tunnel."
                          Sam: "It's hellfire, Dean."

                          And whereas Sam is right, Dean still feels good for the first time in a long time. And while his situation with only one year left to live is quite scary, I can also imagine it to be quite liberating. You don't have to think and worry about the future anymore, you can just live in the here and now and enjoy your life as much as possible. It's easier to go through with the whole carpe diem thing when you only have a limited amount of time left. So I could really understand where Dean was coming from. On the other hand, I could also relate to Sam in this scene. Neither one of them was wrong, both of their points of view made sense and could be related to. I loved that after this heavy talk, the episode ended on a lighter note:

                          Sam: "You're unbelievable."
                          Dean: "Very true."

                          You gotta love Dean for his ability to joke even in the most dire situations.

                          So on the whole, while this may not have been my favourite SN episode ever, I still enjoyed it and am just immensely relieved to have the boys back! To an awesome season 3!

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                          • #14
                            *does happy dance* I've just seen the episode, but Good Grace! There's no way I'm about to write as much as you guys have... I think...

                            Starting from the top, Kripke's done a terrific job with the song choice at the beginning of the episode. In the Pilot there was AC/DC's 'Highway to Hell' song at one point and now the season's starting with 'Hell's Bells'. If find that a little bit symbolic because the boys have been fighting evil left, right and center for the past two years their world constantly getting darker and darker and now that an army of demons has been unleashed -and with Dean's little deal- they're bound to hear... well... Hell's Bells.

                            I also rather enjoyed the new title thingy. The first season had lightning, the second had fire and now we're presented with an army of demons in the background(which suits the dark feel of the series just perfectly). I find that really entertaining in the sense that Kripke brings something new with each season. *thumbs up!*

                            Moving to the boys now, I must admit I was pleasantly surprised to see that Sam's grown a bit as a person after surviving everything the YED threw at him the past two seasons(well... in a matter of speaking anyway). I was half expecting to see him moping around on a brooding marathon, lol. But instead I found a very determined, very stubborn young man here that's doing his best to handle the burden of getting his brother out of a the deal and the task of sending demons back to hell. I was pleasantly surprised to see that. I was also relieved to see that he's been cutting Dean some slack there, allowing him to have his fun while he researched. And I adored the scene after Bobby's call and Sammy walking in on big brother while Dean was 'pulling an Elecktra'. I chuckled for minutes after that one.

                            I do believe we can all breathe a little easier after finding out that the demon army won't simply bow down and follow Sam's commands. While it'll make it harder for the hunters to round up all the hell spawns, it definitely lifts a year-long obsession for both Sam and Dean. Sam can stop worrying that he'll go 'darkside' while Dean's freed of the promise he made to both his brother and father(the one where he's supposed to kill Sammy in case he goes all Anakin Skywalker on them).

                            Now, Dean... While I must admit that I see where he's coming from with living it up and enjoying the time he's got left, I think Jensen has exaggerated on a few occasions. But like Chris has already pointed out, it was his choice of hiding Dean's fear and worry because emotions definitely ran high in the scene where Sam and Dean silently look at each other and even though they don't speak, you can understand what they're going through. It takes a great deal of talent to do that. I'm also fairly glad that dean's stopped hiding things from Sam, although that really comes with a backslash. While he openly admitted to sabotaging Sam's attempts to save him, he forgot one very important thing about his brother: Sam's more stubborn than the proverbial mule and he'll not give up easily. In episode 1x12 Sam swore he wouldn't let Dean die and now that he's driven by guilt... well... I seriously doubt he'll take a break and let things run their course.

                            Bobby... God bless him. It's a nice change to see him on the road and actively helping with the war. He's a strong father figure to the boys from what I can tell and it's good to know that he's backing them up. Really liked seeing him in a costume as well, lol!

                            Tamara and Issac... I really wasn't fond of them. They were just too fake as a couple and as hunters as well. They blamed Sam and Dean for opening the gates to hell, yet they didn't manage to pull their heads out of the places where the sun don't shine, thus failing to take measures when they went head first in that pub. Really, really not looking forward to seeing Tamara again. And by the way... Is that really how you say her name??

                            And I've reached the point where I may rant for ages, but for the sake of vocabulary, I'll refrain myself from too many comments...

                            Ruby. I was against the idea of bringing two huntress into the business from the get go and I never made it a secret. I tried to keep an open mind to them, but so far I've been disappointed. I was expecting a more believable character, not a Selene rip off(Selene from the movie Underworld). She was presented as a Mary Sue and that pisses me off because she's been introduced as a badass huntress, known by demons that have spent the past 500 years in hell. I'm really curious as to how that happened. Do demons have TV in hell where they watch 'Most Wanted Hunter'?

                            Overall, while the season 2 finale was filled with tension and action, the beginning of this season was a bit lacking in that department. I expected the seven deadly sins to be harder to kill. Still... the episode is in the upper half of my 'favorite SPN eps' list and I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.

                            Sorry if I mistyped anything or if some sentences are weird sounding. 'S been a very long day after a very long week. Really think I'm gonna fail Latin this term . And French... And Philosophy.

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                            • #15
                              Forgive me. I wanted to write my review without reading anyone elses. That usually gets me so awash with thoughts that I end up not writing anything at all.

                              Although I would have been more pleased with the placement of the summer hiatus between AHBL1 and AHBL2 with the Magnificent Seven as the second episode MOTW, I thought this was a great way to start a new story. I loved the Sam as a psychic child storyline and am sad to see it sidelined. (I only hope for enough seasons to see it return.) I also may be the only person uninterested in this "epic" demon "war" "apocalpyse". So any real gravity of the Winchesters et al fighting the Magnificent Seven is lost on me. For me it was just a MOTW albeit the "monsters" were a bit more intimidating.

                              Therefore Dean's cavalier "you run and I'll stay and die" attitude seemed over the top considering this was just the beginning and things will be getting worse. It's so odd how what they think is the end is really just the beginning.

                              I didn't get much new out of the character aspect of this episode. We already knew Dean was going to sinfully indulge in worldly pleasures. Though seeing him getting some love did give me smiles.

                              Sam's utter frustration of Dean enjoying a mere SEVEN decadent days was very true to Sam's character. Seriously! Dean watches out for Sam for 24 years and then Sam does it for a week and is exasperated? *huggles Sammy*

                              However Dean was being more irritating than usual and I understand Sam's wanting to attack the matter head on and quickly before time runs lower. Good for Sammy learning something from last year. It's funny how much easier it is to tackle someone else's impossible problem than it is your own.

                              Anyway, surely Dean as an ass will not last long since that's not his true nature. Besides, the crossroad demon most likely just added the "no weasling out of the deal" clause for kicks. Who's to say she wouldn't kill Sam anyway? Or that she was the one that actually revived him. The YED required another power to do it. As a middleman, the crossroad demon could be circumvented. Or, if they killed her, who's going to enforce the retraction and kill Sam? There's a lot of possibilities for getting Dean out of the deal and I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.

                              Ruby's intro to the show was perfect in brevity and sharp deft incision. With the Winchesters vengeance story put to rest, I'm interested to see if Ruby's story will be the connector to a Sam/evil destiny storyline. Ruby's stealth and precision was gorgeous as she stalked Sam in the daylight. Her individuality and self sufficiency came through when she appeared to kill the demons yet left without any fanfare or interest in joining the Winchester "team". Ruby did not possess the same clingy nature of Jo or her thinly disguised denial of same. I was afraid that Ruby would just latch on for no reason, but it seems she has her own storyline which has randomly crossed with the Winchesters.

                              I find the introduction of a knife that can kill demons both intriguing and logical.

                              Constant reference to the Winchester boys lack of supernatural knowledge has been made over the years. In fact the entire episode was about how what they knew was a lot but really just enough to get them killed if they tried to fight an offensive battle. Even Tamara and Isaac brought the special wood as a new weapon to the Winchester arsenal this episode.

                              What the Winchesters know makes for good defensive protection if a demon is encountered by random luck. However they are now poised for forcing confrontation and need to expand their rudimentary knowledge of demon warfare. As cool a scene as the bar brawl was, a water fight with demons is about as effective as it sounds.

                              The introduction of the knife follows the same logic as the intro of the Colt. Who had ever heard of a gun(?!!) to kill a demon. Worked beautifully to the tale. Now we have another unique object most likely powerful due to a past confluence of events as well as ingenuity of the craftsman.

                              Besides if Samuel Colt could make a gun and a several mile wide devils trap out of railroad tracks, why couldn't he have made a knife? Not that he has to have been the one to make the knife.

                              If all we already know about the SN verse is all there is to know, then the show would become mired in its own rules. The boys craftiness in using their basic demon deterrers has been a delight in the past two years. However, it's time for the boys to actively investigate new supernatural weaponry or talismans and to not just settle and make do.

                              As long as an item has roots in mythology and legend than I am perfectly fine. When salt was denied in Provenance, the "lucky" introduction of iron as a weapon made perfect sense since there is lore about it. And Samuel Colt has been established as creating demon hunting weaponry so there is some leeway with him creating objects.

                              It is also important to note that this was a first episode and beginning of a plot. As well known as they are, the Seven Sins were not meant to be indestructible demons. Their real force was in numbers. The Winchesters could have recruited a couple locals to toss holy water etc and made it out on their old knowledge. However, the storyline was meant to introduce Ruby and this mysterious blade rather than be the epic battle to end all battles that the Winchesters are waiting for.

                              The seven sins monster plotline was a well woven pattern to be deciphered upon rewatching. The predilection of demons using a weakness as an opening seemed well in in play here. Since Envy was a lesser used sin, it was a thrill to clearly see its human persona exhibiting envy in his neighbor's car as well as the bright lights of Chicago before being possessed.

                              Yet it poses other questions and possible conclusions. If the Sin demon targeted a human with that weakness to possess it, did the demon then pursue humans with the same weakeness to kill them? With Dean it's easy to see Lust went after him. However, were the others merely random or in actuality subtle glimpses at weaknesses that may later haunt our characters.

                              Indeed Sloth may have only pursued Bobby since he was an "apparently" easy target, but perhaps it insinuates more about Bobby's character. Specific notice was made to Bobby spiffying up as a disguise as well as being tired after all the "exorcising". His unkempt appearance, untidy home, and reluctance to leave his books for actual hunting and fighting demons are all known Bobby qualities. Only the Winchester boys seem to draw him out of his home. Although for only a brief jaunt before he returns home without even seeing if they want him to stay on. I still wonder what John Winchester pissed him off about all those many years ago.

                              What about Sam? Was he only pursued by Pride because Pride wanted to see the prodigy and boy king so hyped by the YED? Or was Pride drawn to Sam's inner self?

                              And which Sins followed Pride into the room with Sam? Greed, Gluttony, and Wrath were not specifically accounted for in the final battle. Gluttony most likely remained with the bartender even if Isaac's death was his victory. However, which sin would have left its own host to possess Isaac's corpse? Wrath was particularly linked to Tamara so most likely the bar owner was exhibiting anger and desire to punish the hunters in his bar rather than possessiveness of his bar. Considering the bar owner's conspicious absence he was probably posing as Isaac. Ultimately leading me to believe that the dark haired chick was Greed.

                              And when Greed recognized Ruby and shouted "You!" was it because Greed was the only one that knew her or had Ruby been tailing all the Sins?

                              I find it very interesting that somehow we (& The Winchesters) have come into the middle of a story rather than being the sole driving force. It adds for a new fullness to story and SN world that the Winchesters are not the only ones who have an important ongoing good/evil struggle. I may love the Winchesters most in the SN verse, but it is not because I think their story is the only one worth telling.

                              Oddly enough though, the show often brings me around to the idea that Supernatural is not the story of the Winchesters but that of the ingenious Samuel Colt.

                              Other Points:
                              1. Yay for a new title sequence. Although each is gaudier than the first, I love the progession and how each sets the season's tone. Season One's dry lightning symbolized a crackling of energy and things to come, John's watching of weather patterns to track the Demon, and Bobby's infamous "Storm's Coming" line. While Season Two's fire represented Dad's sentencing to purgatory, flamy pyre, Dean's slow march to the same devil's deal, and Sam's struggle against the YED. Now S3's open devil's gate invokes the mad rush and tumultous flood of the storm finally arriving and the Winchester's finally having to deal with it.

                              2. Haven't I seen you before? LMAO, I was doing deja vu this episode. The exterior of Nebraska Sloth homestead was the same exterior as the Montana farmhouse in Bloodlust. It's odd that the camera did a full round sweep of the landscape in each episode rather than try to portray the homes with different camera angles.

                              Also Bobby seems to have picked up the same Camaro SS that the Vampire chicks escape with at the end of Dead Man's Blood. I can't complain. Camaros rule.

                              3. Hells Bells was awesome. Particularly in the fact that Dean's death is at hand and the bells are beginning to toll for him. The previous unofficial SN anthem Highway to Hell emphasized reckless abandon with no care of consequences. While Hells Bells is an acceptance of damnation. Nice sequencing.

                              4. The warm rich coloring didn't suit me. Apparently the CW suits have managed to force this change upon the show. *sigh* However, it mostly likely bought Supernatural another season so I accept it. Granted the coloring usually appears quite desaturated on my tv station. However, I'm afraid how strong it will be when the dvds come out. At least there were still strong shadows.

                              Lydia made the punch!

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                                Sam's utter frustration of Dean enjoying a mere SEVEN decadent days was very true to Sam's character. Seriously! Dean watches out for Sam for 24 years and then Sam does it for a week and is exasperated? *huggles Sammy*
                                I don't think that was the point. I think Sam was fine with Dean being decadent and self-indulgent, his frustration stems from Dean's constant statement that he is dead already. Since Sam didn't know the exact terms of the demon deal he interprets Dean's stance as either a) having a death wish or b) him not trusting in Sam to be able to save him and that's hurting and frustrating Sam, not Dean's hedonistic streak.

                                Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                                I find it very interesting that somehow we (& The Winchesters) have come into the middle of a story rather than being the sole driving force. It adds for a new fullness to story and SN world that the Winchesters are not the only ones who have an important ongoing good/evil struggle. I may love the Winchesters most in the SN verse, but it is not because I think their story is the only one worth telling.
                                Heh, while I was watching the episode I had the feeling it was slightly different than usual and after a while I realised what it was that set it apart from other episodes so far: It's the first time we see Dean and Sam operate in a large group of equals instead of alone or with only one guest character. That made for rather interesting dynamics. They start off with teaming up with Bobby right at the beginning of the episode (which we only had with John before) and then the addition of the hunters and Ruby extended that party. I got the feeling that they carefully try to expand the SN world without drawing away too much of the focus from the boys and I think it worked quite well in this episode.

                                So I think you are right and I guess we are going to see some plotlines this season that revolve mainly around other character's stories, with the Winchesters being in the middle of someone elses conflict instead of their own. While where I am concerned they could tell Winchester focused stories for 10 years without me getting bored I get that they want to expand the SN world and I am willing to adapt to that as long as it is well done and not sloppily executed like with the Roadhouse and its characters.

                                Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                                The warm rich coloring didn't suit me. Apparently the CW suits have managed to force this change upon the show. *sigh* However, it mostly likely bought Supernatural another season so I accept it. Granted the coloring usually appears quite desaturated on my tv station. However, I'm afraid how strong it will be when the dvds come out. At least there were still strong shadows.
                                I have to admit, when the first shots of the teaser rolled over my screen I was like: "Huh? Are we in the wish!verse?" because the intense and bright colours instantly stood out from the usual desaturated tone the show has. I somehow hope that this is not permanently the case, since I really thought it made a beautiful contrast between the grittiness of the Winchester world and the brightness (ignorance) of the "normal" world. But well, nothing we can do about that, at least it might make fanarting easier!
                                Last edited by galathea; 08-10-07, 11:41 AM.

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                                • #17
                                  tbh, I found it a bit weak. I'm sure it was a good idea but it didn't exactly come off the way it should have.

                                  Who were the couple? What was the point in them? They just seemed to die and the other pissed off!

                                  Compare this season opener with In my time of dying and you have a loser.

                                  The reason why Ellen, Gordon and the other new characters worked is because they had history with the Winchesters and we saw them later in the season.

                                  I do though have a good feeling about S3. Shame about the opener.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by galathea View Post
                                    I don't think that was the point. I think Sam was fine with Dean being decadent and self-indulgent, his frustration stems from Dean's constant statement that he is dead already. Since Sam didn't know the exact terms of the demon deal he interprets Dean's stance as either a) having a death wish or b) him not trusting in Sam to be able to save him and that's hurting and frustrating Sam, not Dean's hedonistic streak.
                                    I was going for effect! But Sam is frustrated that Dean could be focusing on finding a way to save himself instead of writing himself off and living in the moment. I agree not knowing the terms of the deal was a big revelation in how Sam perceives all of this.

                                    I never felt Sam thought Dean thought Sam was incapable. Of course, I do see through Dean's eyes more and its possible that was weighing upon Sam. And death wish? Damn, I'm so torn between Death Wish Dean being the ultimate in hot and being the epitome of sadness and breaking my heart. *curses show for mixed emotions*

                                    Heh, while I was watching the episode I had the feeling it was slightly different than usual and after a while I realised what it was that set it apart from other episodes so far: It's the first time we see Dean and Sam operate in a large group of equals instead of alone or with only one guest character. That made for rather interesting dynamics. They start off with teaming up with Bobby right at the beginning of the episode (which we only had with John before) and then the addition of the hunters and Ruby extended that party. I got the feeling that they carefully try to expand the SN world without drawing away too much of the focus from the boys and I think it worked quite well in this episode.

                                    So I think you are right and I guess we are going to see some plotlines this season that revolve mainly around other character's stories, with the Winchesters being in the middle of someone elses conflict instead of their own. While where I am concerned they could tell Winchester focused stories for 10 years without me getting bored I get that they want to expand the SN world and I am willing to adapt to that as long as it is well done and not sloppily executed like with the Roadhouse and its characters.
                                    Having a new dynamic was fun. I still want it to be just be them at least sometimes. I will be disappointed if it always the boys plus someone.

                                    And you misinterpret me if you think that I would be bored if it was only the Winchesters for eternity. I can just appreciate the other aspect as well as loving the familiar one. And mostly I know that the real life show logistics require the additions which allows me to accept it.

                                    I have to admit, when the first shots of the teaser rolled over my screen I was like: "Huh? Are we in the wish!verse?" because the intense and bright colours instantly stood out from the usual desaturated tone the show has.
                                    LMAO! Here's my reinactment: Oak Park, IL. ooooooh Chicago lights! DAMN look at the gaudy coloring of that house! [Insert explicatives and rant at Suits and in particular CW executives] YAY new title sequence...did someone get possessed a minute ago?

                                    I somehow hope that this is not permanently the case, since I really thought it made a beautiful contrast between the grittiness of the Winchester world and the brightness (ignorance) of the "normal" world. But well, nothing we can do about that, at least it might make fanarting easier!
                                    I think truth and illusion is my favorite analogy for loving the coloring. Though I definitely agree with yours as a reason why it works.

                                    Doesn't help my fanarting! *pouts* I like the desaturated colors since it is so much easier to take them in any color direction I want and keep integrity.

                                    Originally posted by chelsie
                                    Compare this season opener with In my time of dying and you have a loser.
                                    If by loser you mean not a winner in head to head competition, I agree. But I would never call a regular season episode a loser compared to a season premiere. This was a very good episode and I most definitely agree it would have made more sense as a solid second episode. But it opened up the season in a way that made the show accessible to new viewers and didn't require having watched two entire seasons to understand what was going on.

                                    Originally posted by chelsie
                                    The reason why Ellen, Gordon and the other new characters worked is because they had history with the Winchesters and we saw them later in the season.
                                    I'm confused. I sincerely expect to see at least some of the 3.01 characters to return and their backstories be revealed. And imo, Ellen, Ash and Gordon never worked. Jo worked well in BUABS though.

                                    Originally posted by chelsie
                                    Who were the couple? What was the point in them? They just seemed to die and the other pissed off!
                                    I do believe the point was to die. This show definitely claims its horror movie roots.

                                    Lydia made the punch!

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                                      Having a new dynamic was fun. I still want it to be just be them at least sometimes. I will be disappointed if it always the boys plus someone.

                                      And you misinterpret me if you think that I would be bored if it was only the Winchesters for eternity. I can just appreciate the other aspect as well as loving the familiar one. And mostly I know that the real life show logistics require the additions which allows me to accept it.
                                      Well, you know me, I need my Sam'n'Dean quality time or I'll become grumpy. I am willing to adapt to changes, like new dynamics and opening the SN world, if that's what it takes to keep the show running, as long as they don't touch the boys and their relationship. I would be majorly pissed though if they'd change the formula completely.

                                      I can enjoy the boys with someone else, adding new perspectives to the characters that they can't play out between the boys themselves, but I hope that there will always be episodes that solely revolve around our boys on the road and their story. The day SN is about a group of hunters instead about the Winchesters would probably the day the show looses me. But at the moment I doubt that will ever be the case!

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                                      • #20
                                        I have to keep this short, as my wedding is in two days and I am an absolute nut right now, but I loved this episode. Usually on shows, it takes me a few episodes to get back in the mood. Not because they're bad, but simply because they just don't seem to get me to jump back in right away. This one had all the humor, darkness, storylines, and great stuff this show is made of.

                                        Argh, I wish I could comment more, but not now. Maybe I'll edit later! I have to admit that I LOVED when Dean said, "What's in the box?!" because we say that all the time in my house in the same reference.

                                        :-)


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