Do you have any hope for Torchwood Series 2?

[Rosamunde]

I recently finished watching Torchwood, and, while I had high hopes for it, as I assume a lot of people did, I thought it was truly awful. I found myself comparing it to Angel a lot of the time - and though I can't really stand Angel anymore - this actually seemed worse

I've got the impression that a lot of people had the same reaction as I did -- or did some of you think there were good bits? Does anyone like Gwen? Did emo!Jack win your heart? Or did you like it because it was "darker and more adult" than Doctor Who?

So, do you hold out any hope the second series? Are you going to watch it? I've heard mention that there were going to be changes -- and maybe the inclusion of Martha (who on Doctor Who was at least likeable I thought) will improve it. Or are there really any changes that could make it watchable?

[ciderdrinker]

I haven't really watched any of the new Doctor Who, but I have seen most of Torchwood.

I can't say I thought it was awful, but I wouldn't say I loved it. I thought it could've been better and I think that as Doctor Who has (apparently) got better as it goes on, so will Torchwood. Especially as JM is guesting in it this year! (very excited!)

I get the impression that the guy who's behind it (Russell T Davies?) is very aware of the trend at the moment for supernatural/fantasy TV and that there is a very big British hole in the market, so I wouldn't be shocked to find out that it has a bigger budget and better storylines this year too.

In general, I find that British TV shows are much smaller in scale to US ones, and the acting is generally not as good, but as far as Torchwood goes, it was at least trying to compete with bigger plotlines - even if it didn't manage it completely last year.

So I do have some hope for it, and will watch it to see how it's improving. If it doesn't get any better, though, I think I'll give it a miss.

[TheCharmed1]

I really liked the first series. I found it a change from Doctor Who. And it was a real change to have something set outside of London for once. I mean don't get me wrong I think I still like Doctor Who better, and there were some parts of torchwood I found annoying, and some characters like Gwen for example. But over all I think the first series was really good I think because it was on later it gave us a chance to see the darker side of well Doctor Who, hunting aliens I mean. And I really did love the contrast between humans and planet earth been good and bad. In some episodes they made it out where planet earth was bad and, and humans were just hunters and other weeks it was like all the aliens wanting to come to earth because it was so good to have freedom.

On thing though that annoyed me so much about Torchwood was how Gwen, Own and Jack where the main three characters and most of the stories revolved around them. I thought Tosh and Ianto where great characters and I hope to see a bit more of them through out the second series, rather than just and episode here and there which was all they got in the first series.

I really enjoyed the first series and I hope the second one is just as good or better. I think it will either be really good and better than the first series or really bad. I hope for the first one.

I liked how Torchwood was a bit more 3D than Doctor Who also. In Doctor Who I find that the characters well aren't really portrayed like humans they are portrayed like super heroes. But then again it is children's tele and you can't have it like Torchwood. But I do like to see another depth to the characters that we don't get a chance to see on Doctor Who.

Well I suppose we will just have to wait until autumn to see it.

[ferdy-m]

I've heard a lorra feedback, rosamunde, on this thread and talking to people RL, that Torchwood lacked a centre for the "gang" and that the characters didn't engage enough sympathy. I've heard RD's looked into it for the next series - the line up still much the same, but treated differently.

And bringing in guest stars in the new series - James Marsters in a hot n horny stint with our Jack in the first episode and Kylie later (is Ms Minogue Torchwood or Who? Not too sure) ...

[tangent]

Ms minogue is Who... Xmas eppy, not that i'm looking forward to it or anything.

As for torchwood, potential is there for it to be very good but i think we need as you say for the characters to come off a little more sypathetically. I never really bought Jacks transformation from carefree shaggin machine to angsty can't die guy.

I also think a much clearer overall arc would be a big plus, something to get My interest grabbed and my search engine running.

[Nikole]

Yeah I think all the fans of Torchwood are aware how awful it is. (like me!) I HATE Gwen and Owen so much my god. So basically my expectations for seasons 3 are more Tosh and Ianto please and Jack is going to be less broody I assume since he seemed more into the fact that he's living after the DW s3 finale. And I can't wait until Martha bitchslaps Owen with her mad doctah skillz.

[Rosamunde]

I also think a much clearer overall arc would be a big plus, something to get My interest grabbed and my search engine running.

That's exactly what I was thinking, too. The episodic approach didn't seem to work for this series: if they had allowed more time for their plots to develope, they might have made more sense. I often felt like there was far too much crammed into an episode, even a few two-part episodes would have been something. An overall arc would give the show a lot more cohesion and allow the characters to devlope in a more believable manner, I think. They need to slow down a little and allow plots to develope more organically.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I have hopes but no expectations, is probably the way to put it. I want it to be good very much, and I have a glimmer or two of hope?but I'm not exactly going to be de-aging RTD with the strength of my faith in his Tinkerbellosity.

The series struck me as not very well thought through?what torchwood is, how it was formed?seemed like no one had really bothered to sit down and think about it. Now, from Who, we know that Jack did it in the Doctor's "honor", but that felt a bit tacked on, and frankly, I want the show to stand on its own two feet rather than rely on the Mummy show to do its exposition work for it.

Then there's all the pointless shagging. I've nothing against smutty stuff, but it needs to have a point to it, some kind of emotion or character development or something there.

And grumpy Jack's no fun at all. I can't take him seriously as dark and broody somehow?especially when he's got that earpiece on that makes him look like he works in a call centre (Perhaps on the computer tech helpline?"Have you tried turning it off and on again?"?only Jack would add something dirty to that no doubt). Re the smut?it needs to be Jack centric. That's part of his character, he's naturally a slag, so it makes sense for him to get it on with people?but suddenly making all the characters into walking shagbots seems false.

What the show needs is to find what its central concept is. It needs to ask (and answer)?why are all these people working here? Is it because they don't fit anywhere else? Because they're loyal to Jack? Because they want to help? Because they're fascinated by aliens? I never felt we got a consistent answer for all the characters. I also want a stronger idea of what the show's themes are?if Who is about freedom, joyful travel and running away from a dark past?what is Torchwood about? I like the idea of it being about the flotsam and jetsam of the universe, the pieces that don't fit, the things that don't work like they should. Sometimes it seems to hover around that but doesn't quite express it properly.

If Who = about The One, the man who comes to fix things, the man at the centre of it all?then Torchwood works for me as a Sargasso sea, the misfits, the ones who don't get picked for the team but try to do their bit anyway.

Maybe this season will do better? I did enjoy some of the episodes and moments, but on the whole, I found it clunky and sometimes unwatchable (that one with the cybersexbot?cringe!).

[ferdy-m]

... martha and her "mad doctah skillz" ooooh YES

And perhaps, as well as wot everyone has just said - keep captain jack as an iconic, bigger-than-lifey character? Traditional comicbook hero, upgraded for humanity, omnisexuality and generally bizarre, but not an angsty, Heroes-type hero, "why am I like this ..."

... as it's a brit-show, probably not-heroey-at-all would go with the demographic better? The fact the others have given him the badge without giving him the badge - that's sort of bolshy, "he's not MY leader" (while following his lead) worked for me, just the first season replaced it with "sleeping with everyone," a not-entirely effective MO for a scooby gang leader that the writers of Buffy wisely kept away from, IMO.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Or did you like it because it was "darker and more adult" than Doctor Who?

Forgot to say...bwah! Like your style missy. Just made me think of my dream crossover guest star...which will never happen but...Lorne. Oh god would I love to see Lorne on Torchwood. Woo!

Re the other additions...I'm looking forward to seeing Martha, especially if she gets to poke Owen in the snoot (nice phrase from PG Wodehouse, nothing dirty). I think she'll add something...but not sure what. Hopefully she'll come bearing arc material!

James Marsters...well, wasn't very impressed with his Smallville run. I mean, he was ok, but he didn't blow the roof off. So, it'll depend on the writing for him. Hoping they'll use him well, and that he and Jack will spark off in all kinds of hoyay ways. And that he, too, will come bearing PLOT!

There's another chap who's coming on that I was quite excited about but now can't remember who on earth it was. Damn!

[Rosamunde]

The series struck me as not very well thought through?what torchwood is, how it was formed?seemed like no one had really bothered to sit down and think about it. Now, from Who, we know that Jack did it in the Doctor's "honor", but that felt a bit tacked on, and frankly, I want the show to stand on its own two feet rather than rely on the Mummy show to do its exposition work for it.

I was really hoping to see Jack joining Torchwood, setting things up, getting a team together; throughout the series I wasn't just thinking "why is there?" but also "How is he there?" I kept waiting and waiting for explanations, but like Lost it seems to fall back on pointless enigmas.

It doesn't stand on its own to feet at all - Jack barely seems to be a proper character on Torchwood, he's more like a presence.

What the show needs is to find what its central concept is. It needs to ask (and answer)?why are all these people working here? Is it because they don't fit anywhere else? Because they're loyal to Jack? Because they want to help? Because they're fascinated by aliens? I never felt we got a consistent answer for all the characters. I also want a stronger idea of what the show's themes are?if Who is about freedom, joyful travel and running away from a dark past?what is Torchwood about? I like the idea of it being about the flotsam and jetsam of the universe, the pieces that don't fit, the things that don't work like they should. Sometimes it seems to hover around that but doesn't quite express it properly.

Yes, exactly. There is nothing to meld the characters together, they haven't been properly developed at all; we get littles sense of who they are or why they're doing what they're doing. Gwen, the only one we get to see joining, seemed to join mostly out of curiosity, which surely isn't true for all of them?

Torchwood does feel clunky because there's no unifying quality. I <i>love</i> how fun Who is, how it shows us what so few tv shows show us, that some of this is fascinating, and not exclusively about angst. That's what makes it feel so good to me. Torchwood clearly can't do the same thing, but if it's not going to be <i>fun</i> it needs to be something. I never got the sense of "pieces that don't fit", but I wish I had because that is a good idea.

The intro "The 21st century is when it all changes" etc etc, makes it sound like it's a grand concept, but it never approaches anything that could make such a melodramatic intro worthwhile. I'd rather what it aimed for was smaller in scale - not lonely gods this time but lonely humans - figuring things out because they <i>want</i> to, not arming the human race, but saving people as an optional extra.

There's another chap who's coming on that I was quite excited about but now can't remember who on earth it was. Damn!

Just saw this, must have posted at the same time. Do you mean Adam Dale? From The OC? Because I am quite excited about him too, especially if he's playing a villain.

[Llywela]

Just saw this, must have posted at the same time. Do you mean Adam Dale? From The OC? Because I am quite excited about him too, especially if he's playing a villain.

Alan Dale, even

I'm not sure what to expect from season two. I know they're giving themselves more production time and trying to iron out some of the bugs that were so inherent in season one. But I dunno - most of Torchwood's problems seemed to be inherent in the basic premise of the show, and it's own lack of structure. Will they manage to turn that around? I'd like to think so. But they made such a mess of the first season, I won't be holding my breath.

I'll watch season two and hope for the best, because I'd like to see it work. But I can't bring myself to re-watch season one even to remind myself of the characters and endgame...

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I was really hoping to see Jack joining Torchwood, setting things up, getting a team together; throughout the series I wasn't just thinking "why is there?" but also "How is he there?" I kept waiting and waiting for explanations, but like Lost it seems to fall back on pointless enigmas.

Yeah ? mystery is only exciting when you have faith that all will be revealed in time. Like, on Babylon 5, I trusted that all would be unveiled. Even though the dialogue was all clunky, it was?solid, you know? Torchwood's all misty and wispy. Or, on Buffy, I never doubted that there would be a resolution for things. Actually, in Torchwood, it's not like questions are asked and not resolved?they never seemed to bother to ask the questions (at least they did that on Lost)?they just went for the vague air of mystery route. Which isn't mysterious, it's just confusing and frustrating!

I never got the sense of "pieces that don't fit", but I wish I had because that is a good idea.

I got the sense more from discussing things with other people rather than the show itself?perhaps they'll bring it next season?

The intro "The 21st century is when it all changes" etc etc, makes it sound like it's a grand concept, but it never approaches anything that could make such a melodramatic intro worthwhile.

God yes, that was annoying. They also had all that "beyond the government" etc?what I really wanted to see was how Torchwood fitted with UNIT/the government, how they clashed with those agencies. That's what I really enjoy about Spooks (MI5 in America)?you get a sense of context, of the clashes that MI5 has with the cabinet, with 6, with the CIA?maybe that's just me, but if a show is about an agency of some kind, I like to know how they fit into the bigger picture. Especially if it's a fictional agency, kinda want even more context then to make it feel fleshed out.

I'd rather what it aimed for was smaller in scale - not lonely gods this time but lonely humans - figuring things out because they <i>want</i> to, not arming the human race, but saving people as an optional extra.

Yeah, if they contrasted with Who's divine status ? having the grubby humans just getting on with it.

Just saw this, must have posted at the same time. Do you mean Adam Dale? From The OC? Because I am quite excited about him too, especially if he's playing a villain.

Yesss! Him! Only I remember him most as Jim from Neighbours. He rocks on whatever he's on though?OC, Ugly Betty?wasn't he on 24 for a bit?

[ThePoet's<3]

I will say I prefer WHO over Torchwood. WHO is more light-hearted. And although I don't have any problems with darker (NOT ME!) I felt like they were out to prove a point more in Torchwood that it was going to be "different" i.e. more adult. To me that got in the way of "fleshing" out the stories. Instead of the personal lives of the characters being "side stories" of the plot it was more like the plots were sub stories of the character's personal lives.

And yes - Jack does seem more of a presence than a character. But maybe that's because he is supposed to be that way - he is the "Face of Boe".