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3.17 "Cold Wars" Spoiler Discussion Thread

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  • 3.17 "Cold Wars" Spoiler Discussion Thread

    This episode was more to my liking. I can't say that the show's overcome my strong reservations about where they're taking it this Volume, but a good old HRG playing both sides plot does wonders for the Volume's prospects. As does Daphne's not being dead, even if that seems a bit contrived. Matt actually brought some passion to his vendetta this week, which was sorely missing before. And the flashback format that builds to HRG's secret is always a winning format for them.

    On the other hand, I'm less than pleased with the 'big reveal' at the very end of the painting of a major US city blowing up. I just have this kind of d?ja vu feeling like we've been down that road before. And would someone -- anyone! -- explain how Parkman just happened to end up with Isaac's power?!?
    Cordially,
    Amuk

    I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
    Addicted to Buffy

  • #2
    Heroes 3.17
    Cold Wars

    No Previously this week (at least on the version I watched), so lets see if I can remember what happened last week. I vaguely remember something about Claire sitting on her bed with a man in her wardrobe. Good times.

    Oh, of course! HRG got drugged and dragged. Parkman uses the, somewhat lame, excuse that he can't just read Noah's mind, because he is too well trained and never off his guard. So much so in fact, that they just drugged and captured him. I like that Parkman thinks that Suresh has done 'nothing wrong', he obviously never watched the last volume. Suresh deserves to be put away just for being such a moron. Interrogation is not going to work, 'we need to get creative'. I wish the writers would. Oh, that conversation happened before HRG was drugged. Silly me. I wonder if by getting creative, that barmaid was actually one of either Peter, Parkman or Suresh dressed up. How else did they drug him?

    Parkman goes into Noahs mind. For some reason it is in black and white. Is Bennet colour blind? Bennet is annoyed that the company has gone under, and he doesn't know what he is supposed to do now. Angela tells him to 'look after Claire'. If he doesn't want to...I will! Roll titles.

    As the Chapter Four headline appears, Nathan declares 'This better be good'. Right there with ya buddy. As the credits scroll past, we get to Pasdar without a Panettiere, which is the thing about Heroes that fills me with dread. Couple that with no Quinto either, and I'm out. Laters.




    Only kidding. Much as it pains me to have to watch this Hayden-less, I'm still gonna. She better be in it extra next week. Or at least bring Elle back (RIP).

    Bennet is still tied up. 'You can't rush an interrogation'. Try telling that to Jack Bauer. Mohinder thinks that Parkman has a personal vendetta. Parkman tells him he doesn't know what he is talking about. No change there, then. The vendetta is because of Daphnes death (two weeks ago, I remember some things without Previouslys), but not to worry Matt, because she was listed in the credits (unlike Hayden). We go back four weeks and Bennet is doing a crossword. Tell you what, you don't get riveting stuff like this on Lost. His wife says they are going to meet some friends, Noah does not seem very happy. She asks if he has any other plans. Should have just said he was doing the crossword all night. 'It's nice to have you around' she says. It would be nicer to have his daughter around. I'll stop going on about that now. Knock on the door..it couldn't be...could it..? No, it's Nathan. Noah rubs it in by saying he has no idea where Claire is. Nathan says she is at the library. How very Buffy.

    Nathan is there to tell Noah the Evil Plan which makes Nathan the Villain. Bennet shows Nathan the last twenty years of his life. Let me try and get my head around this. Matt is watching Noahs memory of 4 weeks ago showing Nathan his memories from the last twenty years. Noah says the government don't need weapons, they need perspective. Some colour would be nice, too. Noah says the company isn't shut down just because Angela turned off the lights. It burnt down didn't it, surely that would have created extra light? I dunno. Bennet says there are only so many crossword puzzles he could do. So instead of moving on to Su Duko, he wants to get involved.

    Back in the present (?) Parkman and Suresh are arguing. Peter is not happy. 'We're supposed to be on the same side'. I lose track as much as they do. Peter goes to find all the weapons, but he is being watched by the people in Building 26. The commandos are out in force again trying to get Peter, but he flies away. I haven't even got a power, and I saw that coming.

    This time we go back to Three Weeks Ago. It's very convieniant that everything important in Bennets life happens in intervals of one week. Nathan says 'Welcome to building two six'. I've been calling it Building Twenty Six. God, I feel like an idiot now. Noah thinks the whole thing is very complex, and Nathan wants him to view it from lots of different angles. Maybe he will be able to on the DVD. Noah gets in the back of Sureshs taxi. Now can't Suresh tell this bit of the story, and we can have a bit of colour back? Suresh defends his taxi job saying 'How else would I bump into old aquientances?'. He didn't seem to have any trouble doing that without it. 'We haven't always played nice with each other' says Noah. That'll include the time Suresh shot him in the head, then.

    Back in the present (probably), Matt and Suresh fight over the taxi ride. They break a lot of mirrors, but seven years back luck is not of interest to these characters, because we will be lucky if Heroes is back in seven months, let alone years. During this fight, Bennet escapes, tries to steal a car, but then gets captured again, by a flying Peter. Back to the memories.

    It's now One Week Ago. Bennet goes to see the villian bloke who is working with Nathan. They talk about Claire. I can't take this anymore. Neither can Parkman, so he writes down the address of the bloke. Forgetting how the last time he went off with an address turned out, Peter flies off alone. Silly boy. And now the commndos turn up (again). Peter attacks the villain with a gun. 'Do you want me dead?'. Yes please. 'Do it!' Yes please. 'Do you want to die?'. Yes he does. 'You came here with a mission right, so get it over with'. Yes. Nathan shows up. 'How the hell did you get here so fast'. Ah. The question goes unanswered. Peter shoots. He shot him. He shot him right in the arm. And then Peter doesn't finish the job, he flies away.

    The commandos bust in a couple making out. Maybe they had making out powers. Suresh and Parkman know that they are coming (the commandos, not the couple), but instead of busting a gut to get out of there, they decide to play more mind games to find out if Daphne is still alive. We only have to go back two days to find out this bit of info, that is most unlike Bennet's mind. 'Daphne's alive, Matt'. Any chance he can dig a bit deeper and find Elle in there too? Suresh and Parkman get captured, but Peter flies in and saves Matt. This episode has repeated itself a lot.

    Suresh is in the chair that Tracey was in in Building Two Six. So wheres Tracey? Bennet does not want time off. There are only so many crosswords he can do, of course. Benett sits on the bench with Angela this time in colour, revealing his double crossings (I get so confused), and then Matt goes all season one, and paints the city blowing up (Washington this time). Great.

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    • #3
      Matt's reason for not just trying to read Bennett's mind isn't lame, it's canon -- in the past when he's tried, Bennett would just start thinking in foreign languages that Matt didn't understand. He actually *is* trained to avoid that kind of detection. Given Maury's old ties to the Company, he is probably the one that trained him.

      I'm hoping that the fact that Peter was able to fly Matt out of there is a sign that, now that he knows what his power is doing at the moment, he can control when he takes a power or not (and the plane was because he didn't know how yet). Otherwise, the writers screwed up, or Peter's a jerk for not saving Tracy.
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      • #4
        The soldiers were on to him, so I think he couldn't have saved Tracy. The reason he could save Matt is that he took them by surprise, and also had a stun grenade.

        Still, it's not clear what he can control, or whether he actually touched Parkman (maybe it doesn't work through clothes; on the plane, Peter had to actually touch Suresh hand in order to get strength).

        Anyhow, this new power of Peter's isn't so good. They're kind of outgunned now.

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        • #5
          I'm still hoping that his power is just on the fritz, some after effect of the formula. That would track with Suresh's marks that he got but then faded. But if they're going to cave in to the ridiculous idea that he was too powerful to write for, they could at least give him control over when he takes a power from somebody. He's more or less useless in any group situation if he can't.
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          • #6
            Yes, I agree. I think he'll control which powers he gets, at least to some extent.

            I don't know about his original power, though.

            The effect is lasting way too long and doesn't look like an after effect to me, though they can find a way to give him his original power back if they want to (say, Ando recharges his power).

            That said, while I have no problem with powerful characters as long as they actually use their powers to achieve their goals (as Sylar does), but it seems other people disagree, unless the characters are clearly villains (who apparently can be as powerful as they want), so I'm not sure he'll get that power back.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EvilVampire View Post
              That said, while I have no problem with powerful characters as long as they actually use their powers to achieve their goals (as Sylar does), but it seems other people disagree, unless the characters are clearly villains (who apparently can be as powerful as they want), so I'm not sure he'll get that power back.
              This is one of the problems I have with 'Heroes.' If they believe that to be the case why on earth did they give him that power in the first place? Surely the writer's weren't all clueless enough not to think ahead and wonder if giving him the ability to absorb all other abilities would make him too powerful? Now we get this constant back and forth between who has what power now ect. It's just silly. If they think it’s a problem they should have thought it through more and if they don’t think it’s a problem, then write it in a way in which it won’t be. Don’t keep taking his powers away, giving them back ect.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                This is one of the problems I have with 'Heroes.' If they believe that to be the case why on earth did they give him that power in the first place? Surely the writer's weren't all clueless enough not to think ahead and wonder if giving him the ability to absorb all other abilities would make him too powerful? Now we get this constant back and forth between who has what power now ect. It's just silly. If they think it's a problem they should have thought it through more and if they don't think it's a problem, then write it in a way in which it won't be. Don't keep taking his powers away, giving them back ect.
                Actually, I think they probably didn't think that far ahead, though I don't think his powers were too problematic, most of them anyway. I do find time travel to be a problem for writers (the more it happens, the more obvious the inconsistencies become), as well as time freezing (even though it's less problematic, as it's not inconsistent but just very powerful).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EvilVampire View Post
                  Actually, I think they probably didn't think that far ahead, though I don't think his powers were too problematic, most of them anyway. I do find time travel to be a problem for writers (the more it happens, the more obvious the inconsistencies become), as well as time freezing (even though it's less problematic, as it's not inconsistent but just very powerful).
                  Nothing we've seen in 3+ seasons suggests anything other than that they quite clearly didn't think ahead and consider how imbalancing a hero who just gets more and more powerful would be. It's not that they can't write for Overpowered Peter; it's that it's much harder to write something interesting for such a character.

                  Sylar is different. First because he's a villain (so his accumulation of powers helps build plot tension and raises the stakes for everyone; he's got his own built-in Sorting Algorithm of Evil). Second, because he at least has to pay something (usually killing the owner) to get a new power.

                  With Peter it was free. That, more than anything, is why he was overpowered -- heroes are supposed to struggle to overcome the obstacles placed in their paths. Thus, the writers have had to power him down every season to keep him from being an all-powerful force (S1 he was acquiring and learning to control his power, S2 he lost his memory, S3 he lost his powers altogether. It's getting repetitive; at least this way they can leave him alone and still get the variety he represents. It's a good solution). I mean look at us, we're sitting here wondering why he didn't save Tracy when he has just the one power. Give him 50 and we'll all wonder, quite rightly, why anyone other than Peter ever bothers to do anything when Peter's quite capable of defeating the US Army solo.

                  The way he's used his current ability so far this volume points to him having some control over whether or not he takes a power. On the plane, he just took whichever one he was touching automatically. But he was under a lot of stress, so that could explain the difference. Since then, his mannerisms when taking a power have indicated conscious choice. That's not dispositive and they've left it ambiguous, but it's suggestive.
                  Cordially,
                  Amuk

                  I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
                  Addicted to Buffy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Amuk
                    Nothing we've seen in 3+ seasons suggests anything other than that they quite clearly didn't think ahead and consider how imbalancing a hero who just gets more and more powerful would be. It's not that they can't write for Overpowered Peter; it's that it's much harder to write something interesting for such a character.
                    I agree they didn't think about the direction of the series (a common trait of TV shows, by the way); as for the other part, if most characters aren't so powerful, I don't necessarily lose interest for having two who are (and who are enemies) but then, that doesn't mean that most viewers will be interested, anyway, so the question is what most views will be interested in.


                    Originally posted by Amuk
                    Sylar is different. First because he's a villain (so his accumulation of powers helps build plot tension and raises the stakes for everyone; he's got his own built-in Sorting Algorithm of Evil).
                    Yes, villains tend to be way more powerful; for some reason, that's usually considered better, even though their eventual defeat often also left us wondering why they were actually defeated.

                    Originally posted by Amuk
                    Second, because he at least has to pay something (usually killing the owner) to get a new power.
                    Does he?

                    He took Elle's power without killing her, though he killed her later for fun.


                    Originally posted by Amuk
                    With Peter it was free. That, more than anything, is why he was overpowered -- heroes are supposed to struggle to overcome the obstacles placed in their paths.
                    There could be obstacles, like Sylar and the government, how to find many strong powers (i.e., not things like breathing under water), plus personal obstacles regarding how others deal with his being so powerful, how they relate to him, etc.

                    If it were a one-character show, I would probably not be interested, but I did find Peter reasonably interesting (i.e., not less than most of the others) before.

                    Of course, that doesn't mean most people find it interesting too.

                    Originally posted by Amuk
                    Thus, the writers have had to power him down every season to keep him from being an all-powerful force (S1 he was acquiring and learning to control his power, S2 he lost his memory, S3 he lost his powers altogether. It's getting repetitive; at least this way they can leave him alone and still get the variety he represents. It's a good solution). I mean look at us, we're sitting here wondering why he didn't save Tracy when he has just the one power. Give him 50 and we'll all wonder, quite rightly, why anyone other than Peter ever bothers to do anything when Peter's quite capable of defeating the US Army solo.
                    I think he couldn't save Tracy, but I agree if he were so powerful than no one can defeat him.

                    Still, they can come up with Haitian-based power-jamming devices, Sylar is still an opponent, etc.; he would just have to do considerably more in terms of using powers and defeating opponents, but I agree it's more difficult to keep readers from wondering.

                    Then again, in any case, when viewers begin to think about it "too much", problems are going to show (like time-travel).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I never thought Peter was particularly "overpowered". He was as vulnerable as Sylar is to being surprised, and he can definitely be outwitted. The most "on" we ever saw him was probably in "Five Years Gone" when he rescues FutureHiro and Ando, and then when they go to rescue Hiro. And even then, it was pretty clear that he and Sylar were an even match.

                      The only real mistake they made, conceptually, with Peter is that they should have had it to where powers dissipate over time, or cause him pain to use. That would allow them to get rid of Ted's power and probably Hiro's power without having to keep messing with Peter. Now, his current power is actually a little more like his father's was than his own used to be.
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                      • #12
                        Yay Daphane Is Still Alive!

                        Ok so this episode wasn't my favorite but it was good! After this episode i thought to myself.. what if we were missing it all along what is the rebel was ...... dun dun dun dun....
                        Spoiler:
                        Noah?? He is teetering on the fence of good guy bad guy.. what if he was making attempts to help everybody by telling claire where and when?? He has already stated that he was only helping to keep her out of thier grasp!!! ..... It's just a thought...


                        So i really dslike Nathan. I never really liked him but as a character i really could do without. For one hello hypocrite much? And this whole "i don't want to hurt anyone im trying to help them by ripping them out of thier homes and locking them up for their onw good" crap is getting old.. just say your a bad guy and that you think your exempt because for some reason you thin your better.....

                        I was digging the flashbacks though. I like how matt got around noah thinking in japenese by just going back and looking to see what really happened.

                        BTW, something i don't like about heroes.. is the fact that characters come and go so much.. and you never hear from them again.. Micah, his cousin, Maya, Molly, lately here sylar, Claires boyfriend, PETER'S GIRLFRIEND WHO HE ISN'T EVEN WORRIED ABOUT ANYMORE AFTER HE LEFT HER IN THE FUTURE!!.. sometimes even hiro and ando... this episode claire would be on that list.. I just feel like the writers don't balance the characters enough. Not only are they left out but never thought of again! Am i the only one who feels this way?

                        And would someone -- anyone! -- explain how Parkman just happened to end up with Isaac's power?!?
                        Matt parkman was elected the next "prophet" by the "african isaac" a couple of episodes back.. i can't remember exatly which one. But anyways the scene was right before the plane episode and mat and daphane were in matt and mohinders apartment and matt kept seeing the african painter and finally the african [ainter addressed matt saying that he was to be the next prophet and that he was the guardian of it and to practice using it. Long story short... he can't paint the future now!

                        The only real mistake they made, conceptually, with Peter is that they should have had it to where powers dissipate over time, or cause him pain to use. That would allow them to get rid of Ted's power and probably Hiro's power without having to keep messing with Peter. Now, his current power is actually a little more like his father's was than his own used to be.
                        I totally agree! I hate this whole "one ability at a time" crap for him. I can only imagine how that can feel for peter after haivng all the powers at his fingertips litterally! If they had faded away without having to revisit characters it would have def lead a better story!
                        Last edited by Theresa Marie86; 27-02-09, 06:08 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Theresa Marie86 View Post
                          So i really dslike Nathan. I never really liked him but as a character i really could do without. For one hello hypocrite much? And this whole "i don't want to hurt anyone im trying to help them by ripping them out of thier homes and locking them up for their onw good" crap is getting old.. just say your a bad guy and that you think your exempt because for some reason you thin your better.....
                          The thing about Nathan is, he believes, very strongly. He needs to -- and then he needs to act on that belief. That's his gig. Last Volume he believed that the world would be better off if everyone knew about people with powers. And Future Peter With Removable Scar came back and shot him to prevent the future that revelation led to. So that plan didn't work and now he has another one.

                          That it's more or less the opposite of the last one is... well, that's just Nathan. He's always been mercurial that way. The funny thing about it is that he's every bit as convinced of the rightness of his own actions no matter how many times he contradicts himself. IOW, he's a natural born politician.



                          Originally posted by Theresa Marie86 View Post
                          Matt parkman was elected the next "prophet" by the "african isaac" a couple of episodes back.. i can't remember exatly which one. But anyways the scene was right before the plane episode and mat and daphane were in matt and mohinders apartment and matt kept seeing the african painter and finally the african [ainter addressed matt saying that he was to be the next prophet and that he was the guardian of it and to practice using it. Long story short... he can't paint the future now!
                          Oh, I saw all the episodes and I saw him 'hallucinating' Usutu. I just never heard them bother to explain the actual mechanism by which Matt got a new power. As far as I can tell, it was pure Handwavium.
                          Cordially,
                          Amuk

                          I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
                          Addicted to Buffy

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Amuk
                            Oh, I saw all the episodes and I saw him 'hallucinating' Usutu. I just never heard them bother to explain the actual mechanism by which Matt got a new power. As far as I can tell, it was pure Handwavium.
                            It was, but Usutu said that Parkman had been chosen, or something along those lines, and actually Parkman got the power.

                            It seems that he wasn't hallucinating, then, but someone with the ability to transfer abilities gave him that power, which brings another player into the equation (even though that may have been an unintended side effect of handwavium abuse)

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