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2.11 - "Self Made Man"

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  • 2.11 - "Self Made Man"

    Well I loved this episode, but it felt like it was out of order... Like it should have been played around 2.05-2.06 or even earlier. I think everyone can agree here, plus Sarah got her old hair back It didn't feel like all the stuff that happended last week really god worked out this week, like with Jess and Riley (who seemed like a completly different character this week). So I am going to guess this was made earlier...

    Now to the episode. W-O-W. I love period styled episodes, and the idea of a Terminator in the 20's just made me smile with glee! The crosscuts from the present to the past was so different from what we've seen that I just really enjoyed it. Plus it looked VERY 20's, the custumes and settings were all spot on. Plus the idea of the Terminator in the wrong spot and having to fix his own mistake - LOVED IT! It was original and well written and really made you think "hmm... is there more Terminator's in the timeline before the T-1 in 1980!?"

    Cameron was epic, I loved how it was so HER. And how she was bribing that guy with doughnuts, it amused me so (and when she bribed the girl at the end ) Summer is such a strong actor and I loved how she is still learning and when she is confronted by the guy in the wheelchair (cant recall name) that she is too blunt and that she is weird I think she was hurt - like a human. Both Cameron-centric episodes this season have been really good and I hope we get a bit more before.

    The final fight I didn't see coming. With him being in the wall. I loved it, it was a nice little surprise and I am just surprised at all the writing that is done in this to keep it realistic. The writers really went all out and I think this is my favorite episode of the series.

    It was nice to have just a small scene with Sarah (sometimes she is a bit much, so a break is nice). No Derek, Ellison or Weaver was also okay. We've gotten alot from these characters so it is a nice break.

    Now the John/Riley stuff... Jeez... I am so sick of her character and him being all head over heels for her... I am just annoyed and sick and annoyed... Riley I liked at first, but now she just does not click. The actress feels wrong, the character feels wrong... I kind of want Cameron to kill her

    So besides the John/Riley stuff - this episode was just

  • #2
    Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
    Well I loved this episode, but it felt like it was out of order... Like it should have been played around 2.05-2.06 or even earlier.
    It was actually intended to air before the last episode so it is out of order but only by one ep.

    Now the John/Riley stuff... Jeez... I am so sick of her character and him being all head over heels for her...
    I think that's kind of the point. John's sort of clinging to her because she represents normalcy to him. That's just made so much more sad by the Riley reveal last week.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
      It was actually intended to air before the last episode so it is out of order but only by one ep.
      Really? It feels like it belonged much earlier in the season...



      I think that's kind of the point. John's sort of clinging to her because she represents normalcy to him. That's just made so much more sad by the Riley reveal last week. [/QUOTE]

      Yeah it is ashame they are doing this to her character. It seemed like she could just be a regular girl tossed into this, very similar to how Sarah was tossed into this mess years ago...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
        Yeah it is ashame they are doing this to her character. It seemed like she could just be a regular girl tossed into this, very similar to how Sarah was tossed into this mess years ago...
        Or Charlie. I really liked him. And that he was sort of thrust into the reality and that they were able to trust him. It would have been nice to see Riley take a similar path.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
          Or Charlie. I really liked him. And that he was sort of thrust into the reality and that they were able to trust him. It would have been nice to see Riley take a similar path.
          The one thing I hope this means is a nice fight scene between Riley and Sarah or John. Cause if she just gets shot or goes away it will feel very anti-climatic and just awaste of her character... I also think they should have waited to reveal her secret... like as the cliff hanger for the hiatus break!!!

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          • #6
            What a difference the one episode switch made. I saw you had posted that Jenni Lou in the other thread so I was prepared while watching it. I really couldn't find any reason for the switch unless if the 3 dots mystery is supposed to be solved by the stellar chronometry (i may have just made that term up ). There's even an episode next way so it wasn't like they though this made a better midseason finale.

            I wish I had watched this one before Strange Things at the One Two Point, because I really did have an inkling of John/Riley love before her reveal as a futuree. I heart John period. On a random note, I loved at the party when the older kids thought they could pick on him and beat him up and John threw the punk into a chokehold.

            Lydia made the punch!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
              What a difference the one episode switch made. I saw you had posted that Jenni Lou in the other thread so I was prepared while watching it. I really couldn't find any reason for the switch unless if the 3 dots mystery is supposed to be solved by the stellar chronometry (i may have just made that term up ). There's even an episode next way so it wasn't like they though this made a better midseason finale.
              Yeah I hope they kinda explain more... Did they say WHEn those stars were? I dunno... I'm still confused on the whole thing so if that is the giant reveal then it fails

              This would have made an okay season finale... I find it weird it hasn't gone to break yet... That means we will only have 10 episodes when the show returns if they go on hiatus after next week. That will give other shows like Smallville 12 episodes when they return, which I guess is okay. But You'd think they'd want TSCC to have the same amount of episodes left when it returns as Dollhouse to let them run side by side for the full run.

              I wish I had watched this one before Strange Things at the One Two Point, because I really did have an inkling of John/Riley love before her reveal as a futuree. I heart John period. On a random note, I loved at the party when the older kids thought they could pick on him and beat him up and John threw the punk into a chokehold.
              Yeah same... I really hope when they do the DVD that they switch em back, cause it just has a weird issue with the flow. This episode just feels so out of line and it just bugs me.

              And yeah, I thought John was gunna kill that guy for a second!!! And I felt bad for that kid's mom, and it looked like she was coming down the stairs you could see her for a sec, so I am guessing there was a deleted scene there.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                Yeah I hope they kinda explain more... Did they say WHEn those stars were? I dunno... I'm still confused on the whole thing so if that is the giant reveal then it fails
                No, they didn't go into it enough to be an epic reveal. The previous episode was better since it at least left the mystery open or showed that 3 points could be utterly random.

                But I thought the idea that the use of measuring 3 stars as how time travel is gauged and coordinates determined was a very cool reveal.

                Maybe we'll just see the reoccurrence of the number three throughout the rest of the season just because we are all paranoid about, "WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!"

                This would have made an okay season finale... I find it weird it hasn't gone to break yet... That means we will only have 10 episodes when the show returns if they go on hiatus after next week. That will give other shows like Smallville 12 episodes when they return, which I guess is okay. But You'd think they'd want TSCC to have the same amount of episodes left when it returns as Dollhouse to let them run side by side for the full run.
                I didn't realize that many had aired already. Anyway, I thought Dollhouse only had 9 episodes?

                Yeah same... I really hope when they do the DVD that they switch em back, cause it just has a weird issue with the flow. This episode just feels so out of line and it just bugs me.

                And yeah, I thought John was gunna kill that guy for a second!!! And I felt bad for that kid's mom, and it looked like she was coming down the stairs you could see her for a sec, so I am guessing there was a deleted scene there.
                I wish they'd change it too! I doubt it though. But I'm definitely going to rewatch both episode in the logical order.

                Oooh, deleted scene, that would be cool. I couldn't believe how much of a pushover that mom was.

                I don't think John went berserk and out of control, I think I saw more pity for these poor examples of human beings. But he wasn't going to let them shove him or his friend around.

                Lydia made the punch!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                  But I thought the idea that the use of measuring 3 stars as how time travel is gauged and coordinates determined was a very cool reveal.
                  That is cool, and I did actually look last night too see if I could see any 3 point stars :blush:

                  Maybe we'll just see the reoccurrence of the number three throughout the rest of the season just because we are all paranoid about, "WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!"
                  Well before Derek poped up, it was just Sarah, John and Cameron. Three people, and if you don't count Cameron then its Sarah, John, Derek fighting to stop the future. So I think much like Alias used 47 that TSCC may start using the idea of 3. Which would be kinda cool.

                  I didn't realize that many had aired already. Anyway, I thought Dollhouse only had 9 episodes?
                  I know right! Smallville felt lilke 10, but TSCC only really feels like 6... I can't even recall all the episodes that aired - bad on me. Hmm I figured Dollhouse had a 13 episode order... but 9 sounds more like Fox.


                  Oooh, deleted scene, that would be cool. I couldn't believe how much of a pushover that mom was.
                  Oh good so it wasn't me! That mom just... I think they could have used her more, too show John that his mother has these rules for a reason so that he doesnt become this douchey little brat who does whatever he wants... I really would have liked too seen that. The mom just seemed like a throw away - which is kind of sucky...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                    That is cool, and I did actually look last night too see if I could see any 3 point stars :blush:
                    LMAO! I did too!!! Actually since it was kinda cloudy, I only saw the moon, venus and another star. But still the idea of three was there!

                    The idea of calculating date by mathematics and star distances really makes the idea of time travel seem possible or at least plausible. Not something hokey or just a plot device. Simply punching a date into a time machine and it works skips all levels of logic and requires our minds to just accept that time travel happens.

                    I also love the biblical tones seeping back into the story. But thankfully so subtle that it never gets remotely preachy or silly. But the idea I'm pointing out is how the three wise men followed the stars to reach Bethlehem. And here we are at Christmas time with an idea like this.

                    Well before Derek popped up, it was just Sarah, John and Cameron. Three people, and if you don't count Cameron then its Sarah, John, Derek fighting to stop the future. So I think much like Alias used 47 that TSCC may start using the idea of 3. Which would be kinda cool.
                    I was thinking that as well! Especially with Sarah's first dream of the cacti growing out of the buried terminator.

                    I'm also seriously considering reading The Wizard of Oz to see if there are more parallels. And Dorothy travels with 3 companions so there's that as well.

                    LOL! It's so fun to guess as this stuff! Sometimes more fun than the actual reveal

                    Oh good so it wasn't me! That mom just... I think they could have used her more, too show John that his mother has these rules for a reason so that he doesnt become this douchey little brat who does whatever he wants... I really would have liked too seen that. The mom just seemed like a throw away - which is kind of sucky...
                    You make such a great point. I didn't really pick up on how John should have recognized how lucky he was that Sarah is the mom she is. I'd guess the show wanted to show more of it, but had to edit for time...We need more episodes sponsored by Dodge Ram with limited commercial interruption!

                    Lydia made the punch!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ehlwyen View Post
                      LMAO! I did too!!! Actually since it was kinda cloudy, I only saw the moon, venus and another star. But still the idea of three was there!

                      The idea of calculating date by mathematics and star distances really makes the idea of time travel seem possible or at least plausible. Not something hokey or just a plot device. Simply punching a date into a time machine and it works skips all levels of logic and requires our minds to just accept that time travel happens.
                      Ohh creepy! THREEE!! Now I am going too see it everywhere and just be creeped out. But on the other hand it is cool cause like you said it adds that realism to it. Like "hey... this could actually work" plus as an astology freak I love the idea of using space...

                      Omg, total random side note, wouldn't it be cool if like one of the Terminators traveled to like Mars?! <-- yes people can ignore this.

                      That is one thing that impresses me with the entire Terminator series (incluiding the movies) is there is that sense of realism to it. Its not like "hey! drive this car SUPERFAST and you will travel time!"

                      I also love the biblical tones seeping back into the story. But thankfully so subtle that it never gets remotely preachy or silly. But the idea I'm pointing out is how the three wise men followed the stars to reach Bethlehem. And here we are at Christmas time with an idea like this.
                      Oh I never thought of it like that. I guess it is too subtle for me but now that you say it I will keep a closer eye and try and pick up on it more. Aw now I wanna make a wallpaper with Sarah, Derek and Cameron standing around baby John like he is baby Jesus

                      I'm also seriously considering reading The Wizard of Oz to see if there are more parallels. And Dorothy travels with 3 companions so there's that as well.

                      LOL! It's so fun to guess as this stuff! Sometimes more fun than the actual reveal
                      I might do the same or at least watch the movie... The cool thing of Terminator is that they can take ref from like anything so you never know and it could still work. I do hope that the reveal of the 3 dots actually lives up to our crazy expectations!

                      You make such a great point. I didn't really pick up on how John should have recognized how lucky he was that Sarah is the mom she is. I'd guess the show wanted to show more of it, but had to edit for time...We need more episodes sponsored by Dodge Ram with limited commercial interruption!
                      It is a shame, cause I have a feeling there was one more scene at least with the mom after John kicks the crap outta her kid, cause you can clearly see Riley looking in the direction of where she would have came from after running down the stairs, and it looks like she was responding to something but was cut off. *sigh* I am glad DVDs are around cause I am sure we will get that scene and it will most likely help bring that storyline a little more together.

                      Yes, maybe Dodge Ram should just buy TSCC

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                      • #12
                        I was going through the caps to upload them, it suddenly occurred to me why the ep order was reversed. I bet FOX thought that the previous ep was a better fit for November sweeps than this one was. It's a lame move to sacrifice continuity for such a thing but it's the only real logical reason I can find. :/


                        Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                        Ohh creepy! THREEE!! Now I am going too see it everywhere and just be creeped out.
                        I liked that Derek basically pointed that out a couple episodes back. It will make you crazy because you will see threes everywhere! And how can you trust what you see if you are constantly looking for something but aren't sure exactly what, you know? I like that Derek was apprehensive about following Sarah's reasoning in chasing down that pattern.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                          I was going through the caps to upload them, it suddenly occurred to me why the ep order was reversed. I bet FOX thought that the previous ep was a better fit for November sweeps than this one was. It's a lame move to sacrifice continuity for such a thing but it's the only real logical reason I can find. :/
                          Really? That makes sense, but is a pain cause I think this episode is actually a bit stronger then last weeks. The writing was alot tighter and yes there was only mild action, but the story was just so interesting and made you think.

                          Oh Fox... Why on earth must you play with these things? They think they know better, but really they have proved OVER and OVER again that they really don't

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