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  • Lesbians. There are lesbians in your television set. My name's...Mr Lesbian

    A prize to anyone who guesses the reference. What do you win? A lesbian.

    Cause, as my gf pointed out, there seems to be a lesbian storyline on just about every show (plus the Buffy comics) at the moment.

    Or at least a one off bit of lesbionic activity. HIMYM (lesbian "woo girl" in the latest ep)...Bones has Angela getting her girl-on-girl action on...Grey's Anatomy... Hollyoaks (coming up apparently, don't watch that ore Grey's, but read about it). Lesbian stuff on House, too, with 13 (technically bi but in terms of how she's been presented so far, she's had more girl action)

    Don't get me wrong, I love it. But it's a bit weird... all at once... everywhere... lesbians!

    (I think they must be taking over the media. Probably eating babies while they do it...)

    Are lesbians trendy again, after the 90s lipstick lesbian media peak? Or did they never stop being trendy and are just reaching critical media mass now? Are they pandering to teenage boys? Are they trying to be "right on"? Or is it just...becoming normal? I am now wondering if we're starting to reach a point where gay stories are just no longer remarkable. And that's a good point.

    All I need now is a show in which a bisexual female is not depicted as a massive hobag.

    What do you think about the way gay stories are portrayed on telly? I'm talking about lesbians here, because that's what's been coming out of the woodwork noticeably of late, but, do feel free to discuss boys too!

    On the whole I think there's been more focus on male homosexuality on telly in the past, but things seem to be evening out a bit now!


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  • #2
    Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
    All I need now is a show in which a bisexual female is not depicted as a massive hobag.


    On the whole I think there's been more focus on male homosexuality on telly in the past, but things seem to be evening out a bit now!
    Yeah, I think that was more of an attempt to break the barriers of the social taboo. In my estimation, male homosexuality is generally more difficult for mainstream America to accept. So the fact that gay men on tv were more focused on then lesbians is probably a good thing, if only because it is the more less appealing of the two. I certainly don't feel that way, but again, I definitely thing there is a larger stigma placed on male homosexuality than female.

    As for the lesbian tv explosion? Yeah, it has been becoming more prevalent. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be for shock value. I feel like tv writers are just trying to create an environment that is more inclusive of what's really going on in the world. The sad thing is that while all this is going on, a larger populous is being essentially ignored in entertainment, such as the black and latino audiences. There is little programming available to them and you can't say BET and telenovas count!

    There is a lot of it going on though. But it hasn't detracted at all from my enjoyment of the shows I watch. But I've had several gay friends in my life so I don't really separate them from "the rest" and I suspect that several viewers unfortunately do.
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    • #3
      I agree with Jeni on some of her points, adding that I still believe that men basically 'own' the entertainment industry and so many straight men are going to want to get a 'cheap' thrill by including female homosexuality in shows. They aren't trying to 'push the boundaries of acceptance' but just go for whatever they think will titillate the audience.

      As Jeni said more people seem to have a problem with strong 'in ya face' gay men then with women. Look at all the fuss Russell T Davies's original Queer as Folk caused when it first aired and dared to show highly sexual gay men in sexual situations. If it had been two women I think the fuss would have been much less.

      I don't believe the BBC's 'Tipping the Velvet' suffered the same bad pub;icty when it was aired.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
        All I need now is a show in which a bisexual female is not depicted as a massive hobag.
        How do you show that a character on a TV show is a lesbian? You have her involved in a romantic relationship with a woman.

        How do you show that another character is a bisexual woman? Clearly you have to have her involved in romantic relationships with both a woman and a man... Possibly even in the same episode, if she's a guest star instead of a cast member. Instant hobag.

        Just add water.


        As for the gender question: I do get the impression that your average unenlightened straight man is more terrified of Teh Gay than his female counterpart is afraid of Virginia Woolf, er, I mean lesbians. But I lack the relevant experience of being a woman to say that for sure.

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        • #5
          How do you show that a character on a TV show is a lesbian? You have her involved in a romantic relationship with a woman.

          How do you show that another character is a bisexual woman? Clearly you have to have her involved in romantic relationships with both a woman and a man... Possibly even in the same episode, if she's a guest star instead of a cast member. Instant hobag.
          Only If you leave it at the fact her whole life revolves around her sex life. Establishing a characters sexuality is easy, it's where you go from there without making her into a caricature is the hard part.

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          • #6
            Thirteen I don't think is a hobag and she's a bisexual.
            Don't forget Brothers & Sisters, although Kevin is gay it still features gay romance.

            Being a big supporter of homosexuality I say this is good, mostly because if more gay/lesbians were put on TV as the good guys (And not psychopaths or crazieswho want to kill everyone, I am looking at you H&A writers...) then perhaps slowly society will get use to it, and perhaps homosexuals can finally do what they want in peace, perhaps even goodbye to the banning of Gay Marriage.

            All we need left is a lesbian, a gay guy and a bisexual to be the three main characters on a show and then we got a complete set (Note that most of the time they are never the actual main character, sure Thirteen is a main character but she's the only bisexual). I could think of a storyline for that right now. Maybe the lesbian is best friends to the gay guy who had a relationship with the bisexual who's still looking for his/her "One". Perhaps one or all three can also be supernatural FBI Agents fighting both sides of the war, supernatural and the natural baddies all while dealing with thier own lives.

            A mix of Buffy/Charmed/Bones/Criminal Minds/Supernatural I say lol.

            Hilda Celeriac: You better tell me everything or I am gonna go Lex Luthor on your ass!
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            • #7
              I think it's nice that we're seeing diversity with that too, QAF has become one of the boxed seasons I'd love to collect even if some say it's you know, not in the good light of how things really are, but we all have diffrent opinions. I only hope too the marrige will happen one day if people want it, I beleve in equal rights for everyone.

              That's just my two cents.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore
                All I need now is a show in which a bisexual female is not depicted as a massive hobag.
                I've only seen a few episodes of "House", so I can't tell about 13, but (if ancient shows count ), what about Susan Ivanova, from Babylon 5?

                Ok, they didn't say she was bi, but I think it was implied clearly enough.
                Last edited by EvilVampire; 20-11-08, 08:48 AM.

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                • #9
                  I think it?s good because it shows tv is willing to break the norms, and I like when they approach gays or lesbians storylines in a right way without being too crass or rude.
                  But yeah, nowadays we see a lot of gay/lesbians and bissexuals on tv.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by stormwreath View Post

                    How do you show that another character is a bisexual woman?
                    Have her mention she's bisexual? Talk about people she finds hot? Talk about exes/currents?

                    In terms of actually showing relationships - as you said - with a character who's not on for very long, you don't have time to show them with two sexes without them seeming rather bed-hoppy. But you could over the course of a season or two. Or, in a show where everyone's bed-hopping, they probably wouldn't seem like yer stereotypical "dirty bisexual" (TM someone I can't remember now damn) in context.

                    You could also have a bi character in a relationship with whatever gender and have their ex come on the scene, of the other gender. I think that's an interesting dynamic to be played out - how the new partner responds, how the ex reacts, how the person in the middle plays off both. Especially interesting also (to me) is how others react. The way that people assume you've chosen a gender by choosing a partner, in particular.

                    The L Word dealt with bisexuality, but rather badly imo - Jenny was nuts and she ended up gay anyway... and Alice, also, talked about it in terms of making a choice in the end, I seem to remember. But, grr, going from bi to gay is NOT “finally making up your mind” and being bi is not sitting on the fence. Big sillies.

                    As for the gender question: I do get the impression that your average unenlightened straight man is more terrified of Teh Gay than his female counterpart is afraid of Virginia Woolf, er, I mean lesbians. But I lack the relevant experience of being a woman to say that for sure.
                    I’m sure there are women who are afraid of lesbians or bisexual women (Friends of Virginia?) or find them threatening. Not met anyone who’d admit that in so many words, but definitely know some (older) people who feel that way to a degree. But… I’m not sure if it’s more or fewer than with men. I definitely get the impression that that’s how it’s viewed in society – as in, people assume women have fewer issues with lesbians than men do with gay men… but I wonder if it’s just that they have slightly different kinds of bad reactions. As in, they don’t have the same “backs to the wall boys” reaction, it’s something more along the lines of disapproval/lack of understanding of a hostile kind?


                    I think when it comes to lesbians on trashy* shows, many women would be more likely to be bored by them than afraid. In that context, lesbian action detracts from the hot man-on-woman action that they’d be more interested in/attracted by – that is, if they’re not in the slightest bit attracted to women/intrigued by lesbianism – which I think perhaps a lot of women who wouldn’t act on it are, just as a visual/fantasy thing.

                    *ie soapy/romantic-drama/hot people getting off with each other while dealing with their “issues” type shows.

                    That was rather convoluted. What I mean is, if you watch a show for wish fulfillment (of characters you can identify with getting to sleep with characters you’d like to sleep with), and you’re a straight woman, lesbian relationships aren’t going to give you said wish fulfillment. But that only covers that particular angle on trash, and trash is just a small part of tv.

                    My experience (admittedly not typical, living in a liberal place in a liberal time) has been that women are just not very interested in lesbianism qua lesbianism – though they’d be interested in lesbian characters if they were interesting characters in a general way - if they’re not invested in it politically (from a gay rights/equal rights/civil rights point of view) or if they’re not attracted to women themselves. It’s just a bit…nothing to do with them. Not good, not bad, just…meh, next question.

                    Now, a well-written lesbian storyline would be interesting to them – as to anyone who doesn’t have a particular problem with or investment in lesbians - from a story perspective, or a “look at this interesting cultural phenomenon” perspective I’m sure…. But not from an identification/ooh, exciting point of view.

                    So, perhaps what I’m saying is that well written lesbian characters would be interesting to a straight woman but trashy ones, not so much, unless from a cultural studies-y point of view?

                    All conjecture and speculation and whatnot though. Not being a straight woman, I can’t speak for myself on that.

                    Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                    Only If you leave it at the fact her whole life revolves around her sex life. Establishing a characters sexuality is easy, it's where you go from there without making her into a caricature is the hard part.
                    I don’t think it should be hard though. So, example… this is a lesbian not a bisexual, but I think Greggs on The Wire is a great example of a gay character where her sexuality is not the focus. It’s a focus of some of the other characters sometimes, where relevant, but it’s not at all what defines her. She’s “good police”, she’s a shit girlfriend, she’s a good buddy, she’s honest… oh and not very good at putting up ikea furniture (which, thank you for breaking down the lesbo diy stereotype… not all women who sleep with women are inherently good at flat pack assembly )

                    Originally posted by Willow's Tara View Post
                    Thirteen I don't think is a hobag and she's a bisexual.
                    Well, she’s shown having random hookups where she doesn’t even know the person’s name… which, ok, “hobag” is me being silly… but she is being shown having random anonymous sex which is usually tv shorthand for “deeply fcked up approach to love and sexuality”. Now, they’re not saying “she’s a bisexual therefore she’s a slut”…but, she is another example of a bisexual who’s a bit indiscriminate about who she sleeps with (even if it’s because of her Huntington’s issues, it still acts out the stereotype).


                    All we need left is a lesbian, a gay guy and a bisexual to be the three main characters on a show…
                    Ok, this isn’t a full set, but I’d say The Wire is the one that comes closest (of recent shows that I can remember off the top of my head). Omar, gay, Greggs, lesbian – two central (if not main – but the wire doesn’t really have main characters per se apart from maybe McNulty and the odd other one) characters who are gay but not there as “the gay character”. They’re just there, and they’re gay. Oh, and also awesome. I mean, who doesn’t want to be Omar?
                    Spoiler:
                    (apart from the whole dead thing)




                    Originally posted by EvilVampire View Post
                    I've only seen a few episodes of "House", so I can't tell about 13, but (if ancient shows count ), what about Susan Ivanova, from Babylon 5?

                    Ok, they didn't say she was bi, but I think it was implied clearly enough.
                    Ok, she was technically bi, but a) her girlfriend went evil (lesbian cliché number one, or was it two, I think dead lesbian is probably “one”) and b) it was blink and you’ll miss it! I mean, it’s practically Radcliffe hall for the elisiony lesbionicism. “That night they were not divided” becomes “That morning Susan woke up and it looks like maybe they had sex but there’s no actual kissing”. Well, there’s the confession of love much later. But it’s not much to go on, not much exploration.

                    But she’s definitely not a hobag, correct.
                    Last edited by Wolfie Gilmore; 20-11-08, 03:29 PM.


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                    • #11
                      All we need left is a lesbian, a gay guy and a bisexual to be the three main characters on a show?
                      Well there's the very, very silly Torchwood where all of the cast have shagged someone of the opposite sex at some point in the show. Not that thats a good example of fine TV though...

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                      • #12
                        I think it got to the point where they really exhausted the male homosexuality thing and so are now switching to lesbianism for a shake up, well maybe they overplayed the homosexuality thing with men in the UK, but it just seemed like you could be watching a programme and then the next episode one of the male characters (who was presumably straight) is suddenly gay as a way to shake things up and I don't know if I'm the only one, but I could tell that those storylines were coming a long way off, so I think it's just a way to keep people guessing.

                        I'm surprised somebody hasn't said that it's a way to keep/get more viewers, which is what the excuse was when Marissa and that other girl from the OC got together, but I don't get when people say that anyway, so lesbians get more male viewers, does that mean that when men are in same sex relationships on TV they get more female viewers?
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                          Well there's the very, very silly Torchwood where all of the cast have shagged someone of the opposite sex at some point in the show. Not that thats a good example of fine TV though...
                          Also, I think that implying a "broadminded" view of sexuality means you'd actually shag poodles probably doesn't do much for the positive portrayal of bisexuals on television...

                          Incidentally, since no one's identified the title's source...if you're curious...here it is:

                          http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...25351067764604

                          ^ From the brilliant "Jam" (though not quite as brilliant as its radio forebear, "Blue Jam")

                          EDIT:

                          Matt said:

                          ...so lesbians get more male viewers, does that mean that when men are in same sex relationships on TV they get more female viewers?
                          Among the general population? No clue. But if the ammount of m/m slash on the internet is any indication, a LOT of women are very interested in gay male relationships, in a titilating sense.
                          Last edited by Wolfie Gilmore; 20-11-08, 03:25 PM.


                          -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                            Among the general population? No clue. But if the ammount of m/m slash on the internet is any indication, a LOT of women are very interested in gay male relationships, in a titilating sense.
                            I guess, it's just strange how nine time out of ten lesbian relaitonships are excused as an attempt to up the ratings, but when a man in a show comes out or turns gay it's just to strengthen a storyline or give a character something.

                            Maybe the writers started to realise that men are not the only gay people in the world and thought that as a way to accept this they'd decide to suddenly have lesbians as well.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore
                              Ok, she was technically bi, but a) her girlfriend went evil (lesbian cliché number one, or was it two, I think dead lesbian is probably "one") and b) it was blink and you'll miss it! I mean, it's practically Radcliffe hall for the elisiony lesbionicism. "That night they were not divided" becomes "That morning Susan woke up and it looks like maybe they had sex but there's no actual kissing". Well, there's the confession of love much later. But it's not much to go on, not much exploration.
                              a) Ok (though arguably she got killed), but that was only planned as a back up just in case the actor decided to leave (which she did). Granted, that wasn't on screen, but there was no indication that her sexuality had any connection to her death (or whatever happened).

                              Then again, someone could argue that maybe their relationship wasn't planned, either, so they made Talia bi just to kill her (though they had a way of bringing her back if the actor wanted to, so I don't know about that).

                              b) Yeah, it was very short - though Talia is probably the only person Susan had sex with in the whole series, and I don't remember any kissing, either, so it was kind of the norm with her character, it seems.

                              But true, not much to explore.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by EvilVampire View Post
                                a) Ok (though arguably she got killed), but that was only planned as a back up just in case the actor decided to leave (which she did). Granted, that wasn't on screen, but there was no indication that her sexuality had any connection to her death (or whatever happened).
                                Oh, no, quite. There's no causal connection ? just another instance of the "dead or evil or both" lesbian cliché. She is not dead because she sleeps with women, but sleeping with women and death have a certain?venn diagrammic overlap on telly.

                                (I think Joss escapes this cliché with Tara by the fact he's consciously considered the cliché ? he's playing with it/dealing with it rather than just repeating it. So, he chose to kill Tara because the idea that he wasn't "allowed" to kill Tara was offensive in itself. Perhaps a defiant use of cliché is no longer a cliché? Hmm?)

                                b) Yeah, it was very short - though Talia is probably the only person Susan had sex with in the whole series, and I don't remember any kissing, either, so it was kind of the norm with her character, it seems.

                                But true, not much to explore.
                                Not big on the PDAs, our Susie. We just got endless smooching between bumpy head half human lady who was later on Lost and boring captain?no, I am not good with names. Actually, I rather liked their relationship, even though he was a bit dull. And off topic, oops.


                                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                                  Have her mention she's bisexual? Talk about people she finds hot? Talk about exes/currents?
                                  Yes, but that's "tell", not "show". Too much exposition is the enemy of drama; just ask Tony Head.

                                  I don't disagree with any of your ideas or examples (you did get I was being tongue in cheek, right?), but most of them would need the bisexual person to be a primary character on the show with lots of time to develop them in depth... or else their bisexuality becomes just something mentioned in dialogue, like the fact that their mother's name is Ethel.

                                  Which, sure, might still be good from a purely political "visibility" point of view, I suppose.


                                  I wonder if it's just that they have slightly different kinds of bad reactions. As in, they don't have the same "backs to the wall boys" reaction, it's something more along the lines of disapproval/lack of understanding of a hostile kind?
                                  Well, I get the impression that a lot of straight men really play up and exaggerate their fear/hostility to gay men when they're with their mates - the "whole backs to the wall" thing is about proving to other men that you're absolutely, positively not like that yourself. It's playing a role. (Wolf-whistling and shouting at women going past comes from the same source: it's nothing to do with her, it's about him proving to his mates that he's definitely straight.)

                                  Social stereotyping might well play a part; if men are conditioned to believe that being gay is bad, then they'll be more determined to prove publically that they aren't through loud expressions of condemnation. The women, meanwhile, don't feel the need to bother so much.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by stormwreath View Post
                                    Yes, but that's "tell", not "show". Too much exposition is the enemy of drama; just ask Tony Head.
                                    Poor guy!

                                    Sometimes telling is bad, but then I think there are times when telling IS showing, cos people do talk about these things in real life, so it's part of the "action". Like, say, over the course of various conversations you mention various exes, then the other person adds it up and is like...wait a minute, you dated Robert AND Margaret...and then the bi character can explain. Though, if "I'm bi" sounds too clunky, they could go with a hand gesture using both hands to imply a bit of both.

                                    I think it can be an awkward conversation in real life, cos "coming out" as bi seems a bit...I dunno, anticlimactic perhaps? But you still have those conversations.

                                    Then again, I suppose things that happen in real life can seem clunky when transposed into drama.

                                    But, there's usually a way to get around these problems and to casually introduce a character trait without necessarily having to state it too too obviously. Photos of male and female exes on a wall of photos - "that's my ex and that's my ex"?

                                    [quote(you did get I was being tongue in cheek, right?),[/quote]

                                    Never! I thought you were as serious as cancer (when they say rythmn is a dancer....worst taste song line of the 90s?).

                                    ... but most of them would need the bisexual person to be a primary character on the show with lots of time to develop them in depth... or else their bisexuality becomes just something mentioned in dialogue, like the fact that their mother's name is Ethel.
                                    That's why they need some main characters who are bi...that aren't like 13.


                                    Well, I get the impression that a lot of straight men really play up and exaggerate their fear/hostility to gay men when they're with their mates - the "whole backs to the wall" thing is about proving to other men that you're absolutely, positively not like that yourself. It's playing a role. (Wolf-whistling and shouting at women going past comes from the same source: it's nothing to do with her, it's about him proving to his mates that he's definitely straight.)
                                    Damn, I thought wolf whistles were definite offers of sex. (Love that Eddie Izzard sketch where he questions what men would do if you turned around and said...alright then, let's go, you and me, let's do it! after they give you the "alright darlin, come over here".)

                                    Social stereotyping might well play a part; if men are conditioned to believe that being gay is bad, then they'll be more determined to prove publically that they aren't through loud expressions of condemnation. The women, meanwhile, don't feel the need to bother so much.
                                    I think women are quite often very quick to point out that they're not *butch* rather than not into women. So, "Yes, I'd sleep with a woman, but I'm always going to shave my armpits" type stuff. It's not the sleeping with women that's the problem, it's the public perception of what being a lesbian means.


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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore
                                      Oh, no, quite. There’s no causal connection – just another instance of the “dead or evil or both” lesbian cliché. She is not dead because she sleeps with women, but sleeping with women and death have a certain…venn diagrammic overlap on telly.

                                      (I think Joss escapes this cliché with Tara by the fact he’s consciously considered the cliché – he’s playing with it/dealing with it rather than just repeating it. So, he chose to kill Tara because the idea that he wasn’t “allowed” to kill Tara was offensive in itself. Perhaps a defiant use of cliché is no longer a cliché? Hmm…)
                                      I see.

                                      You know, while I'm aware of the cliché (I read about it a zillion times), someday I'll ask for evidence just to see those Venn Diagrams.

                                      On the issue of bisexual women who aren't portrayed as hobags but whose relationships are actually explored, I have to admit I can't find any at the moment.

                                      With respect to your point about the number of lesbian stories today on TV:

                                      Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore
                                      Don't get me wrong, I love it. But it's a bit weird... all at once... everywhere... lesbians!
                                      I actually don't think that they're so many, proportionally speaking.

                                      I don't know, someone would have to start counting (no, don't count on me for that ), but I don't get the (intuitive, just gut feeling) impression that the percentage of lesbians on TV exceeds the percentage of lesbians in real life...except that in real life they're less open, perhaps? Though that depends on where one lives.

                                      On the other hand, I do get the impression that gay men are much less common on TV (or, to be precise, among important characters) than they are in RL.

                                      Still, now that you mention it, it seems that lesbian characters have become common lately, at least in American TV, for some reason.

                                      I don't know what the reason is: I suppose one could say it's more social acceptance in the US, but then again, constitutional bans on same-gender marriage in so many states seem to indicate that the trends towards acceptance of homosexuality isn't so strong.
                                      Last edited by EvilVampire; 20-11-08, 06:38 PM.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by EvilVampire View Post
                                        I see.

                                        You know, while I'm aware of the cliché (I read about it a zillion times), someday I'll ask for evidence just to see those Venn Diagrams.
                                        Not sure I'd get around to actually creating the venn diagram? wonder if someone already has? Here's a few examples, anyway:

                                        - 1961's The Children's Hour starring Audrey Hepburn and Shirley MacLaine. MacLaine's character hangs herself after she confesses her love for Hepburn.
                                        - Two films that portray predatory lesbians are Walk on the Wild Side (1962) with Barbara Stanwyck and Young Man With a Horn (1950) starring Lauren Bacall.
                                        - The Fox (1968) features Sandy Dennis as a lesbian who is crushed to death by a falling tree immediately after making love to Anne Heywood.
                                        - One of the most notorious recent examples is Basic Instinct (1992), in which Sharon Stone's character is a murderer and her girlfriend is crazy, jealous and ends up dead.
                                        - Another is Heavenly Creatures (1994), which has the added horror of being a true story. In this film two teenage girls develop an intense sexual friendship which is blamed for the girls' brutally murdering one of their mothers.
                                        - Lost and Delirious (2001) depicts a lesbian relationship at a boarding school that ends with one girl denying her love for the other because the peer pressure is too painful and the scorned girl leaping to her death after slowly going mad.
                                        - High Art (1998) ends with the overdose death of Ally Sheedy's lesbian character.
                                        - Mulholland Drive (2001) ends with a lesbian having her ex-girlfriend murdered then turning a gun on herself. ((to be fair, judging by David Lynch standards, this is par for the course)
                                        - Smallville character Tina who's obsessed with Lana and eventually dies (so, both evil and dead in the mix)



                                        I don't know, someone would have to start counting (no, don't count on me for that ), but I don't get the (intuitive, just gut feeling) impression that the percentage of lesbians on TV exceeds the percentage of lesbians in real life...except that in real life they're less open, perhaps? Though that depends on where one lives.
                                        I think it's not that the number of tellesbians exceeds the number of Real Life Lesbians, just that the number on telly exceeds previous numbers by a generous bounty.

                                        Still, now that you mention it, it seems that lesbian characters have become common lately, at least in American TV, for some reason.
                                        I don't know what the reason is: I suppose one could say it's more social acceptance in the US, but then again, constitutional bans on same-gender marriage in so many states seem to indicate that the trends towards acceptance of homosexuality isn't so strong.[/QUOTE]


                                        Perhaps it's just something in the water?

                                        There is certainly an increasing openness within celeb culture, not just telly dramas. Even though I think Katy Perry is a?bad word?"I kissed a girl and I liked it" is a big hit, and I don't think that many people are *really* shocked by it. And then there's "LiRo" (Lindsey Lohan and Sam Ronson), a staple of the celeb trash mags with almost as little remark as Brangelina (oh god I really shouldn't know about this stuff).

                                        And, one of them boy bands has a gay "story" in its videos (for one of the members of the band who's gay).

                                        I'm sure the level of acceptance in the wider world is nothing like the level of representation on telly (etc in the media)? given that homosexuality is still illegal in some places, and gay marriage is illegal in others.


                                        -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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