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3.08 "Villains" Spoiler Discussion Thread

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  • 3.08 "Villains" Spoiler Discussion Thread

    I almost wept with joy when I finished this episode. It's generally not considered strong writing to introduce retcon after retcon after retcon in one episode, but... it felt like Season 1 of Heroes again. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed it until now.

    Loved Angela's chance at the spotlight (all the more so because of how rare it is), loved Nathan's characterization (and it shows in Adrian Pasdar's acting, too, how much more comfortable he is with this old, relatable Nathan than the inexplicable religious obsessive of early Season 3), loved grey!Sylar, loved the Sylar/Elle 'shippiness, loved the Noah-Elle interaction, and loved the way they (finally!) integrated Elle, Meredith and Arthur into the show's history. It felt very organic to me, never mind all the retcons.

    Nikki's and Maya's absence and Mohinder and Claire's limited screentime did wonders for my attention span, too.

    This is only the second episode (out of eight) that I've enjoyed this season, but it definitely gives me hope.
    Last edited by Enisy; 12-11-08, 04:33 PM.

    (set made by Francy for me)

  • #2
    I've really liked this season so far, and this episode seems to me to be the weakest one yet. I still liked it well enough - it was awesome to be taken back to the pilot and before, to see Peter with his emo bangs and almost making out with Nathan, to see HRG instead of Noah- but it also seemed like the writers have no idea of the history of their own creation. I'm not especially a continuity-monger, but Sylar's story in this episode absolutely can't be fit into his character's history. I don't hate Sylar's redemption story, but I don't want them to do it at the expense of the old magnificent bastard!Sylar I loved. I know we're supposed to pretend that Season 2 never happened, but Elle is the one good thing to come from that travesty and this episode completely ignored the character she's supposed to be. I heard that Elle was originally supposed to be Eden in this episode, but the negotiations with the actress fell through at the last moment...and it seems like they didn't even bother rewriting the script for Elle. They just stuck Kristen Bell in there.

    But, like I said, I still liked the episode. Angela and Arthur were awesome. I'm still liking Arthur as a villain. I loved seeing Linderman and finding out that Linderman, who was supposed to be the big badass in Season 1 but has been altered to be subservient to Arthur, was the one behind Arthur's downfall. Totally awesome. I hope the show finds new and exciting ways to include Linderman. I'm sad to see African!Issac (Ustusu? Utsu? Utusu?) sans head, but I'm gonna hold out hope that that was part of Hiro's spirit walk as well. I had started forming this idea that...I'll just call him U...was going to be set up in opposition of Arthur. The big orchestrator and player in the side of light. I'd really hate to see that theory crumble so soon.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by XavierZane View Post
      I'm not especially a continuity-monger, but Sylar's story in this episode absolutely can't be fit into his character's history.
      The worst thing they've done with him this season is the retconning of his murderous tendencies as an unfortunate side-effect of his ability (not exclusive to him, as we saw with Peter). If they're going to keep greying him up, poking at his Gabriel roots seems like a slightly better way to go about it.

      I know we're supposed to pretend that Season 2 never happened, but Elle is the one good thing to come from that travesty and this episode completely ignored the character she's supposed to be.
      Most people in my communities are voting mind-wipe.

      (set made by Francy for me)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Enisy View Post
        The worst thing they've done with him this season is the retconning of his murderous tendencies as an unfortunate side-effect of his ability (not exclusive to him, as we saw with Peter). If they're going to keep greying him up, poking at his Gabriel roots seems like a slightly better way to go about it.
        Leaving aside how I feel about the fact that Elle, HRG and The Company are being painted as responsible for letting Sylar loose, I meant that it literally could not fit into his timeline. The events of last episode are supposed to take place at the time of the pilot (at the end of the episode we see HRG getting into Mohinder's cab, which is in the Pilot), but by that point Sylar had already killed several people, including Chandra (of which there was no mention last episode) - enough to have the FBI on his tail at any rate -, and, as far as I could tell, he wasn't even in NYC anymore.



        Most people in my communities are voting mind-wipe.
        Yeah, mind-wipe or the events of this episode (manipulating a fairly innocent guy you're starting to really like into murder) plus the fact that she probably knew about the mounting trail of bodies Sylar left in his wake. However they choose to explain it...I just hope they actually choose to explain it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by XavierZane View Post
          Leaving aside how I feel about the fact that Elle, HRG and The Company are being painted as responsible for letting Sylar loose, I meant that it literally could not fit into his timeline. The events of last episode are supposed to take place at the time of the pilot (at the end of the episode we see HRG getting into Mohinder's cab, which is in the Pilot), but by that point Sylar had already killed several people, including Chandra (of which there was no mention last episode) - enough to have the FBI on his tail at any rate -, and, as far as I could tell, he wasn't even in NYC anymore.
          I don't remember the timeline at all (have only watched the other seasons once, and that back in June), but I'll take your word for it. Man, the continuity errors have really been running rampant this season...

          Yeah, mind-wipe or the events of this episode (manipulating a fairly innocent guy you're starting to really like into murder) plus the fact that she probably knew about the mounting trail of bodies Sylar left in his wake. However they choose to explain it...I just hope they actually choose to explain it.
          Same here -- although I must confess that, to me, OOC Sylar/Elle interaction is better than no Sylar/Elle interaction ('cause Zach and Kristen are good friends in real life, and it shows in their chemistry).
          Last edited by Enisy; 12-11-08, 09:23 PM.

          (set made by Francy for me)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Enisy View Post
            I don't remember the timeline at all (have only watched the other seasons once, and that back in June), but I'll take your word for it. Man, the continuity errors have really been running rampant this season...
            Seriously. Like I said, I'm not a huge continuity bastard, but the Sylar thing was so glaringly obvious that i had to notice. Someone over at TWP made a crack that, after last episode's continuityfail, they can see why Jeph Loeb got fired. It's not all that far-fetched...


            Same here -- although I must confess that, to me, OOC Sylar/Elle interaction is better than no Sylar/Elle interaction ('cause Zach and Kristen are good friends in real life, and it shows in their chemistry).
            Oh, yes. I have to admit to really liking Sylar/Elle. As soon as they spent a couple of minutes together, my mind immediately started matchmaking, and I was like, "OMG, Little Noah still needs a confirmed mother! Is this it?!". Then, when Elle was asking HRG how she could get Gabriel to trust her and HRG responded with 'Pie.', I was like, "...is that a euphemism?" If this episode was all to set up a romance between the two in the present - hopefully leading to little Noah - then it'll be worth it.

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            • #7
              I really liked this episode, even though there were some continuity errors, it was fun to go back to the beginning again.

              Loved Elle/Sylar this week, it's a shame they couldn't get it on in the show I think they would be so sweet together. I liked Elle here more aswell she didn't seem so hard.

              I found myself feeling really sorry for Angela this week for what Arthur did to her. I still don't like him, I find him quite irritating actually. I also liked seeing Linderman again, interesting how he fits into everything. The more I see Nathan the more I like him, really liked seeing the old Nathan again.


              I felt sorry for Usutu at the end, I quite liked him, even though I'm not a big fan of Hiro and Ando this season, I hope nothing happens to either of them because I think they may become more entertaining in the future. I'm confused though did Arthur pull Usutu's head off because it looked like that was what he was going to do to Hiro...eww.
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