Lost 4.01 "The Beginning of the End" Discussion Thread

[KingofCretins]

Figured might as well go ahead and start this. Tonight's season premiere is at 9pm ET on ABC, of course, with an hour long recap episode prior to it.

Definitely looking forward to this based on the commercials. The actor I recognize as part of the freighter crew (the guy that tells Jack it's not "their top priority") is good in everything he's in, so I hope he'll be a new forceful presence on the Island.

[Jenni Lou]

All four of the Freighter folk are pretty good actors so it should be great!

And dude, excitement overwhelms. FINALLY. my baby is back!!!!!

I'm casually watching the recap now in anticipation of the premiere. All the reviews I have read are very favorable and they seem to indicate that the pacing of the shows has picked up more and that "The Beginning of the End" is exactly what this episode signifies.

ACK! I avoided all the huge episodic spoilers so I only know a little bit of what's coming up this season. YAYz!!

[Weredog]

Ugh, okay, here's my day's rant.

What the hell is this show about?!

I had caught a few episodes of the first couple seasons when it first aired (that was - what? - 3 years ago) and I decided to catch up since there's such a craze around this series. So, sure enough, I watched the recap hour. With that, I was confused as hell, but I figured "Okay, the series isn't over, let's give this a chance".
27 minutes into the season premiere, I had to shut the TV off. I do not understand the point of this show. On general terms, I don't mind stories (be it a movie, a tv show, a book) with an ambiguous plot, just as long as there's great character development and interaction that delivers a solid message. What is "Lost" delivering? I feel like I'm watching a "Who Dunnit?" play set in Hawaii that never resolves anything.

Again I ask: what is the point of this show? Seriously.

[Jenni Lou]

Either you love it or hate it, really. That seems to be the way people feel about it. I LOVE it. My fave show.

The point? It's essentially a story of redemption. Most every character works toward, whether knowingly or not. But it also has the huge mythology and mystery aspect to it.

I get that some people don't understand it. That's cool. I've been following it from the beginning and I have to admit, there is WAY too much information that them to try to and squeeze it all into a recap. I don't know why they bother. It confuses more new viewers than it enlightens.

Anyway, great episode! Lots of cool stuff, I think. I almost cried when Hurley broke the news of Charlie's death to Claire.

And who's eye was that in Jacob's cabin. I know Christian Sheppard was sitting in the chair (and what the hell was that about?!) but was that Jacobs eye? I am thinking actually that Locke was inside the cabin and the eye Hurley saw was his. Makes sense since Locke appears moments later outside anyway.

Oh, and the guy who came to visit Hurley. am thinking he is like a family member or something of one of the people on the plane and is trying to extract info from him. Kinda like the Sam character in the find815.com game.

That's all for the moment.

[Nikki]

This is still on the air so I've moved it to the general Other Shows sections

[Creamy Coolness]

I really enjoyed watching this episode. I think the new flash-forward scenes are intriguing and add - is it possible? - a new layer and excitment to the show. By the way, is there still some flashbacks or did they move on and only show flash-forward now?

It appears that Locke is still on the island, right? So when they say Oceanic 6 or something like that, could it means that they only found 6 people on the island? The other are not dead then?

I'm confused but the show is really getting better to me ! go Lost !

[Jenni Lou]

By the way, is there still some flashbacks or did they move on and only show flash-forward now?

Both. Minor spoilers for character-centric flashbacks coming up:

Spoiler:

Expect to see both a Juliet and Desmond flashback this season.

It appears that Locke is still on the island, right? So when they say Oceanic 6 or something like that, could it means that they only found 6 people on the island? The other are not dead then?

Clearly, the O6 seem to be six people who have made it off the island. So far: Jack, Kate, Hurley. It appears they are lying (As Jack suggested in the S3 finale) and have struck some sort of deal to not discuss the specifics of what occurred. I make this deduction because 1)Jack asked Hurley if he was "going to tell", 2)Hurley would not discuss Ana Lucia with the cop Big Mike, 3)Matthew Abaddon (the Alleged Oceanic rep who came to visit Hurley) asked if "they were still alive."

So that's my thinking!

[KingofCretins]

I got the impression that Hurley was more hesitant to talk about Ana Lucia because of the gruesomeness of the whole thing than specifically because of an agreement not to.

So, clearly the flashforwards are earlier in time than the Jackforwards of last season. I'll be curious to see what drives him from basically well-adjusted to over the edge and desperate to return. And why Kate is apparently uninterested.

I also immediately thought it was Locke looking out of the cabin at Hurley. I'm kinda torn on how I feel about Jacob and the supernatural elements of the Island now. Which is odd, because in Season 1, I was really loving the idea that the mythology was basically a supernatural one instead of a sci-fi one, but after they swung so far toward sci-fi, I'm having trouble embracing the supernatural elements again.

[Jenni Lou]

I got the impression that Hurley was more hesitant to talk about Ana Lucia because of the gruesomeness of the whole thing than specifically because of an agreement not to.

I did as well. However, by the end of the episode and with the other instances I mentioned above, it seemed clear to me that his refusal to answer was more aligned to another agenda, one in which he is not allowed to answer.

I'll be curious to see what drives him from basically well-adjusted to over the edge and desperate to return. And why Kate is apparently uninterested.

After seeing that Hurley thinks they also made a mistake, in retrospect I am inclined to think that perhaps thinks they did as well. Perhaps a tremendous amount of denial is paralyzing her from making that realization. In re-examining the final scene os S3, Kate is visibly upset by the notion of returning. And sure, she should be! But she may be upset because she knows, deep down, Jack may be right. That's a harsh reality to confront, imo. So, perhaps Kate just hasn't reached her breaking point yet. Maybe Hurley does and then Jack and maybe eventually all of the survivors who made it off may feel the same. Time will tell, I suppose.

I also immediately thought it was Locke looking out of the cabin at Hurley. I'm kinda torn on how I feel about Jacob and the supernatural elements of the Island now. Which is odd, because in Season 1, I was really loving the idea that the mythology was basically a supernatural one instead of a sci-fi one, but after they swung so far toward sci-fi, I'm having trouble embracing the supernatural elements again.

1. The eye shot was so reminiscent of the one in "The Man Behind the Curtain" where we first see Jacob that I did think it was Jacob's eye here again. Until I found that Locke was nearby and then I quickly realized it must have been Locke hanging out in the cabin.

2. Everyone knows I love the show. (And perhaps to my own eventual detriment if the series leaves my unsatisfied at its conclusion) I have total trust and faith in the creative team behind it. I've just grown to love the show so much and become so wholly immersed in it. I just trust them. I always thought that they knew what they were doing. So many other just thought/think they were making it up as they go along. So those sci-fi elements that have been building over the seasons actually make sense to me. I think it works very well too. Over time, things get stranger and stranger. I don't think I would be as interested if suddenly these people were dumped onto an island and crazy supernatural things were going on right away. There's been a slow building to that. And I like that.

On a related note, when asked about the skeletons ("Adam & Eve") discovered in the caves back in the beginning of S1, Damon Lindelof said this:

There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living-or, I guess, slowly decomposing-proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, "That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this."

By the by, there is an incredibly interesting thread and theory at the Fuselage about the island being located in the North Pole. Sounds crazy but there is actually staggering evidence, imo, that it just might be! It's one theory I am going to keep tabs on.

[ThePoet's<3]

LOST IS BAAAAAAACK!!!

And YES JL - my baby is back!!! ***Does Happy-Sawyer dance***
Thought the first part of the show started a little awkward and slow. Hurley's FF were pretty interesting.

In regards to who made the right choice or not - we really don't know until we get some information on what has been happening on the Island since the O6 have been gone... It may be there have been terrible things going on while they are there. I think both groups are not in a "happy place". And remember hind-sight is always 20/20.

Loved the sensitive side of Sawyer when he approached Hurley. That's all Hurley's doing - he should be proud he has brought something decent out of Sawyer.

Still don't know about the choices that Sayid and Desmond made. You would think after knowing what Charlie told him about it not being Penny's boat he wouldn't go with Jack. Actually we never saw him choose a side.

As for Hurley not saying anything about AL at the police station - my belief is that the O6 are under some strict secrecy laws. I don't believe they are supposed to say anything about the other Losties at all. I mean look at Kate running around all free - she should be in jail for the murder of her father. (yes father)

The question is - was Charlie really dead - or something else?? I think maybe the other patient who saw Charlie was just as much a vision as Charlie was!

This going to be a great season!!

[Jenni Lou]

The question is - was Charlie really dead - or something else?? I think maybe the other patient who saw Charlie was just as much a vision as Charlie was!

Yeah, the whole Charlie deal...I haven't decided what I think he is yet. After all, Hurley used to see Dave. So it's no stretch he could see Charlie too. On the other hand, we have no way of knowing if the island has a way of tracking or communicating to others who are not actually on the island. I even saw someone speculating on the boards that Charlie was a kind of Mrs. Hawking, trying to somehow course correct or something tot hat affect Clearly, the Charlie figure--whatever he is--has a very decisive plan for Hurley. And he is haunting him because of it.

Yeah...I got no clue what Charlie is all about. But in the police station scene, Charlie is swimming through that windown and on his hand is written "They need you."

[skinless]

I almost cried when Hurley broke the news of Charlie's death to Claire.

I did cry, (Proly shouldnt say that) But is he really dead though? I hope not because he was my favorite on the show beside Kate and Hurley. But Im no longer a "Lost" virgin
as this was my first Full Episode that ive seen. I did really enjoy it and Cant wait to see what Happens in the next episode

[Jenni Lou]

An FYI. 'Cause I am one of those super geek fans, I listen to a few podcasts on the show and on The Lost Podcast with Jay and Jack's recent podcast, Jorge Garcia did a really cool and lengthy interview with the guys and he said that the eye in Jacob's cabin was not Terry O'Quinn's. So there we go...it was not Locke in the cabin.

[slaycandy]

Yeah, the whole Charlie deal...I haven't decided what I think he is yet. After all, Hurley used to see Dave. So it's no stretch he could see Charlie too. On the other hand, we have no way of knowing if the island has a way of tracking or communicating to others who are not actually on the island. I even saw someone speculating on the boards that Charlie was a kind of Mrs. Hawking, trying to somehow course correct or something tot hat affect Clearly, the Charlie figure--whatever he is--has a very decisive plan for Hurley. And he is haunting him because of it.

Yeah...I got no clue what Charlie is all about. But in the police station scene, Charlie is swimming through that windown and on his hand is written "They need you."

Okay this is spoilery, but I met up with Dom in September '07 after the s3 finale had aired some time before and asked him if he was really dead, and his response was: (I'm paraphrasing it was a while ago now!)

Spoiler:

Charlie died down there, but that doesn't mean I won't be returning to the show in another way.

So take that to mean what you wish!

EDIT: of course, that may be all he knew at the time, he isn't after all a writer! Or it may have been all he was saying at the time.
SJ
xox

[Jenni Lou]

I met up with Dom in September '07 after the s3 finale had aired some time before and asked him if he was really dead,

Thanks for the inside scoop, SJ! It must be cool to be at the conventions all the time and get to talk to people of the shows we adore!

I think we will see Charlie again. After all, we see most of the dead characters after they die. I'm sure he will pop up in an ep or two before the series is through!

[Willow's Tara]

I didn't think that was Locke in the cabin, the eye color seemed different not to mention the eye we saw, I am pretty sure if it was Locke we would have seen the faint scar on his eye.

And about Hurley not talking about Ana, I thought it was because he didn't want to tell the cop about how she died and everything (Since the cop sounded like he was close to Ana, maybe its best he doesn't know).
And was anyone else expecting Hurley out of that car? First I thought it was Sawyer, then when I saw curly hair I thought it was Kate and totoally surprised that it was Hurley.

Hmm, I knew something was weird when Hurley kept saying Oceanic Altantic 6, I thought it was a mistake on the actor's or writer's part.

Okay, let's say six did make out alive, (And Locke is still in the Island but he doesn't count at this point. Kate/Jack/Hurley are on the mainland).

I am guessing Sawyer could be the fourth one?...And probably Sayid (Well I could be wrong since I thought Charlie would be one of the last ones standing but I was wrong about that).

Aw, I like Sun and Claire thought, I don't want them to die (But we could be getting it wrong and more then 6 survivors will survive).

Also, do you think they would kill Claire's baby off? And if they didn't, would they really kill Claire?