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  • Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
    You know what? I really enjoyed those too.

    I was listening to Galactica Watercooler podcast and one of the hosts had said that the opera house stuff was all a retcon....but it was still awesome because it blended in seamlessly within the scope of the end of the series. I coudn't agree more. They had to answer what the deal was with the Opera House and so they constructed a way to integrate it into the battle. And it worked. As far as retcons go, I can surely forgive that one! At least it made some sense and I didn't feel like they were trying to overwrite the mythology in any way.
    Yeah, I heard that podcast, too! Loved all their discussions about it, and how they joke about things, too. It's about 2 hours long, but I wanted to hear MORE discussion about the finale with them Much fun to listen to. And, yes, when Caprica and Gaius walked into the "opera house" and looked up and saw the "cloaked figures", the final five? Damn, that was AWESOME I still loved the Starbuck All Along The Watchtower FTL Jump thing much more, just because the editing between the other scenes and the music and Sackhoff's acting and It was the perfect thing to follow up the AATW Piano version in 4.17.

    I'm still awaiting RDM's 3-hour podcast impatiently....

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    • Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
      Yeah, I heard that podcast, too! Loved all their discussions about it, and how they joke about things, too. It's about 2 hours long, but I wanted to hear MORE discussion about the finale with them Much fun to listen to. And, yes, when Caprica and Gaius walked into the "opera house" and looked up and saw the "cloaked figures", the final five? Damn, that was AWESOME I still loved the Starbuck All Along The Watchtower FTL Jump thing much more, just because the editing between the other scenes and the music and Sackhoff's acting and It was the perfect thing to follow up the AATW Piano version in 4.17.

      I'm still awaiting RDM's 3-hour podcast impatiently....
      Well, rest assured I am quite sure they will be doing another podcast on the episode. There's so much to discuss. Plus they were with a big group of people at a viewing party and that's not the norm for them. It's one of the best fan podcats on any show I have come across. Glad you are listening. I love podcasts, in general because I like talk radio and podcasts are like talk radio about fandom without commercials!
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      • Originally posted by Kold View Post
        No, it was Tyrol and Tory. In No Exit Sam said "you were madly in love... you were planning on getting married" to them.
        That is really bizarre, for whatever reason I was so convinced it was the other way around...I thought it was something Ellen said! I'm going to have to go back now, feeling like my memory is going!

        I agree with you, but just out of principle would say that in the flashbacks Ellen only had her falsified memories and not her real ones, so... she wouldn't have even known Tory.
        Well to me that was just the single thread, the thing that ran through Ellen's character from when she was a 2000+ year old scientist to when she was the slightly drunk, slightly slutty wife to the XO of a battlestar. I mean we see it again in Deadlock even when she's back to her scientist personality...
        Yeah, exactly... if God's will was for this to happen and the 145s to all be wiped out, why the necessity for Gaius' speech? Or even, for that matter, the opera house visions at all. What was the purpose of Hera being in Cavil's grasp in the CIC if the 145s were just going to be wiped out anyway?
        But maybe it was only god's will once the truce stopped working? I don't know if I totally buy that, but I just thought of it and that is one idea...I mean, it was only the one rock...
        Hah, I was just remembering that when they got rid of technology and lived like the good little hippies RDM wants us to be, they scattered people in different areas across the continents. What happens when someone gets sick or gets a broken leg? Not only is all the medical equipment gone, the doctor is probably on a different continent!
        See I didn't see it that way at all. I felt like, for me, the fact that the 39,000 scattered was one of the saddest things about the episode for me...but also, it felt real. If you'd lived on a cramped ship for 5 years...I think you'd be ready to have a bit of distance from your neighbors! Especially after the way New Caprica turned out...I mean, it didn't seem to be doing very well pre cylon invasion...and truly, a blank slate was the only way to really break a LOT of cycles. Like the caste system that Tyrol pointed out in the episode with the mining ship, I can't remember the name of it...the idea of children being forced to follow in their parents footsteps because there were no other options...the elite that developed over the course of the exodus and which certainly contributed to the causes of the mutiny...

        And I don't think that spreading them out on different continents was about individuals' survival...yes, a broken leg would have been more difficult to treat, and so would any kind of illness. But the idea rather was giving the race(s) as a whole the best chance of survival...different environments, predators, weather patterns, etc...spread settlements out, so that the failure of one didn't mean the failure of all.

        Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
        I don't have all this time to respond to everything you guys have said, but I'll say this.

        I don't think Tory HAD to die, I think Cally had to get justice. Whether it be putting Tory in jail or having the Chief kill her, whatever! I know that RDM plays on your emotions and if you look at the series as a whole logically, your feelings for numerous characters will be different. But this series relies on the incredibly strong acting to make you feel for a character. We love Adama, Boomer almost kills him, we don't give it a second thought when Cally shoots her! The emotions are what make us not think logically, and really care for a certain group of characters, and we get pissed if they get hurt. That's just me, but that's why I really would have been mad if Tory killed Cally and that was that :-/
        I really disagree I think...for one thing, I hated it that Cally killed Boomer! I loved boomer, always, and especially in the first season when she was fighting with herself so hard to keep from turning into what she knew she would...I hated that she lost that battle and shot Adama (though I've always thought that she won it a little bit...because she didn't kill him, and it was pointblank range and she knew how to shoot a gun. But that's neither here nor there), but I didn't hate her! I've never really liked Cally much (who marries someone AFTER they beat the crap out of you?), and I really kind of hated her after she killed Boomer! But I didn't think she deserved to die...and she was never punished. BSG is not a totally fair universe. You don't always get punished for the crimes you commit...and you don't always deserve the punishment you get! Tory didn't deserve to die, but neither did Callie...so neither of their deaths were right to me, but I still don't think that Tory's or Tyrol's actions were treated as morally correct. So to me, that means it's ok.
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        • I really enjoyed the finale but like everyone else, feel pretty sad that it's over. I had no feelings of remorse for Tory's end. IMO, she got what she deserved. I guess the warm fuzzies for her character never developed for me.

          Roslin's death was so sad that I cried. Starbucks disappearance gave me chills. I loved seeing Caprica and Baltar walking and talking at the end. Found Helo's survival pretty surprising because I thought he was a goner.
          Feel so very sorry for the chief. Poor guy lost it all. Lee's dream to explore felt true to his character. Ty and his now faithful wife and my feelings for both of them continue to surprise me. Everyone grew so much during the series.
          I really have nothing but good things to say about the finale and this series and I really really hope they do a movie, until then, I will be counting the days.

          Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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          • Originally posted by litzie View Post
            I loved boomer, always, and especially in the first season when she was fighting with herself so hard to keep from turning into what she knew she would...I hated that she lost that battle and shot Adama (though I've always thought that she won it a little bit...because she didn't kill him, and it was pointblank range and she knew how to shoot a gun. But that's neither here nor there), but I didn't hate her!
            Yeah, and I totally agree with what you said about her being a tragic figure a page or so back. I was really pleased with how her character went out in the finale. I was extremely sad that she died, but from a character perspective she acknowledged the fact that she had made choices, that she'd had free will, which was what her entire character arc was all about.

            Actually, I caught 3.02 Precipice on TV last night, and it showed so perfectly how tragic Boomer's story was, because she was struggling so impotently against the other Cylons to stop them executing humans. And it was one of Cally's more white-trashy episodes

            I agree with you guys that the Opera House and music/jump were extremely well done in the episode... incredibly exciting. I like that just by existing Hera fulfilled her Messianic roles, and after everything, all Gaius, Caprica-Six, Roslin and Athena were meant to do was protect her. And looking through the entire course of the series, from the pregnancy to New Caprica to the baseship and thence on, all four of them consistently did that.

            And I liked a lot of the parallels that they drew in the finale. The best one was probably the fact that Kara was ordered to do the blind jump, in a basically picture-perfect echo of Cain ordering Kendra Shaw to blind jump during the Fall. Kendra, whose destiny was to destroy the last remnants of the pre-Final Five Cylons, just like Kara put all the pieces into place so that the Hub could be destroyed. That I liked, because Cain and Kendra were basically the anti-Adama and anti-Kara, because they were both victims and objects of the cycle of violence.

            I thought Sam was incredibly well dealt with in this episode. I thought that was one of the most inspired plot choices of the past half-season, having him made a Hybrid, and in the finale I loved every scene with him in it. But I still think that the greatest achievement of the finale was its full close of not only the Gaius and Six plot roles, but their characters. I thought it was incredibly honest, satisfying, and any fanboy has to love Caprica-Six in marine gear...

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            • Now, I still love the finale and I understand that not all questions can be answered, but about Starbuck....

              I loved her conclusion. I LOVED her being an angel. But her story and the All Along The Watchtower story had loads of questions left. I was just thinking about that. Can I mention a few unanswered questions, and if I missed them, or if you have any theories, maybe we can fill in some blanks....

              How did Hera know the song?
              Why did the song trigger the Final Four?
              How did Kara's dad know the song?

              I was still holding out on the theory that Kara's dad was something more. Not a Cylon, per se, but is he a Head!Character in STWOM? And if so, why would a higher being send an angel....to guide an angel? Maybe Kara's dad is a higher being; the "god". Yeah, I don't know Any other questions you guys have that you really wanted answered?

              And I've seen on other forums the question, "WHY IS KARA THE HARBINGER OF DEATH? WHO DID SHE LEAD TO THEIR DOOM?", but I thought that was answered. My answer was....

              Kara was brought back and led the fleet to the new Earth. All death there, and triggered LOTS of death. Gaeta, Zarek, Dee, etc. She led the fleet to their doom. I mean, "Sometimes A Great Notion" is definitely one of the greatest BSG episodes, and definitely the darkest one ever, IMO. That episode basically shows the temporary demise of the human race. IMO, the human race would have been wiped out if Adama didn't step up and get back to his post. So, Kara led them to their doom; nuked earth and depression and death. Anyone else interpret it this way?

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              • No doubt there are some unanswered questions. I don't think I've ver seen a series finale that wraps up everything. Especially with a series that has such a layered mythology as BSG. So I really appreciate the ending it got and I am not going to get upset with all the other stuff I wonder about. It's good preparation for the ending of Lost! Lord knows that show won't get full closure.

                RE: All ALong the Watchtower. I don't know if there is any easy explanation. On the on hand, if you view the BSG-verse as a cyclical time loop of sorts (if not literal) then the song's meaning lies only its relevance to advancing fate. Why did Hera know it? Well, perhaps as a human-cylon hybrid she tapped into something that the others couldn't. Perhaps it was an innate part of her being to just know it. Why was the song the trigger? Same explanation really. It was simply meant to. As for Kara's father...

                Yeah, I do feel a bit confused on the whole thing. I was pretty convinced that her father was Daniel, the destroyed cylon model. So convinced that even during th episode I kept thinking that it was okay of they didn't reveal it outright because it seemed so implied. Now I am not so sure. However, I do think a cool little Easter Egg if that tape or whatever of his that said "Live at the Opera House." It seemed a good indicator that he was a part of the whole process in some small way. I dunno.

                The harbinger of death thing turned out to be very anti-climatic and slightly disappointing to me. But I am not too bothered by it. It makes sense if you apply it in a more anstract way, kind of like you have done, Ben.
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                • Yes, I had this image of Kara running through the Colony and getting to one area and seeing her father at the piano playing the song and Kara would be like, "Holy frak." I thought tying Daniel into the end would be cool, but whatever. I prepared for it because in the podcast for 4.18, Ronald D. Moore said that Daniel did not play into the overall mythology. But...who is Kara's dad? I still like to think that he was some higher power. He may be the reason Kara was picked to be an "angel", perhaps?

                  About the song....I think it was something with the God answers we got. Like you said, angels and God led the story and song to that place? That's the best I can think of.

                  The harbinger of death thing was great, I thought. I didn't even think twice about it after 4.11, tbh. I still think the greatest wrap-up of all the questions was the Opera House. The whole Opera House thing was so dense and intersting and SO bizzare, I'm surprised how it all worked out at the end and how the Opera House was really just a form of leading the characters where they had to go.

                  As beautiful as Kara being an angel was, I can't help but think how much more it would have explained if Kara was a hybrid. Especially the song. If Daniel was at the core of everything, he could have been helping Ellen all along, planting the song at the core of the F5's memory, etc. However, it still would have explained the smashed viper and new viper, and it wouldn't explain the harbinger of death, etc.

                  So, yeah, there is no 100% satisfactory ending in a series like this. But I've come to terms with it, and "Daybreak" is still, without a doubt, one of my favorite BSG episodes.

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                  • Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                    How did Hera know the song?
                    Why did the song trigger the Final Four?
                    How did Kara's dad know the song?

                    I was still holding out on the theory that Kara's dad was something more. Not a Cylon, per se, but is he a Head!Character in STWOM? And if so, why would a higher being send an angel....to guide an angel? Maybe Kara's dad is a higher being; the "god". Yeah, I don't know Any other questions you guys have that you really wanted answered?

                    And I've seen on other forums the question, "WHY IS KARA THE HARBINGER OF DEATH? WHO DID SHE LEAD TO THEIR DOOM?", but I thought that was answered. My answer was....

                    Kara was brought back and led the fleet to the new Earth. All death there, and triggered LOTS of death. Gaeta, Zarek, Dee, etc. She led the fleet to their doom. I mean, "Sometimes A Great Notion" is definitely one of the greatest BSG episodes, and definitely the darkest one ever, IMO. That episode basically shows the temporary demise of the human race. IMO, the human race would have been wiped out if Adama didn't step up and get back to his post. So, Kara led them to their doom; nuked earth and depression and death. Anyone else interpret it this way?
                    Well, Kara's role from the beginning to was to lead the people to Earth. That was her role in the season 1 finale when she recovered the Arrow of Apollo, that's what was implied by the Aurora symbol in "Maelstrom" and so on. So her role also incorporated initiating the truce between human and 268s that resulted in the destruction of the Hub, and then the finding of the original Earth. But what "Daybreak" said was that her main role was to use the song to find the new Earth... where human and Cylon would eventually lay themselves to rest. That's what "the end" means... the end of the cycle, technology, their struggles and so on.

                    The purpose of the original Earth was to forge human and Cylon together. That was essentially the outcome of finding the nuked-out Earth... the failure of the mutiny only merged the fleet and the 268s together.

                    I'm fairly certain that the word "doom" was never used in relation to Kara's role. In "Razor", the original Hybrid said to Kendra that Kara was "the Harbinger of Death, the Herald of the Apocalypse. She will lead the human race to its end. They must not follow her". But of course, the original Hybrid wanted to stop Kara's destiny. What the Hybrid on the Rebel Baseship said was (and she said this with awe) Kara was "the Harbinger of Death. You will lead them all to their end".

                    Kara's role wasn't just about the human race, it was about all of them, human and Cylon. Leading them to destroy the Hub and find the original Earth were part of her path, but it was fulfilled by finding the new Earth... she led them to the end of their journey.

                    I still think Kara's father was the Daniel model. I think it was made all too clear in 4.17, and I think the fact that her destiny covered both races points to this. In 4.17, doing a rewatch of the episode, I think Kara was aware that Piano Daddy was her father all along. There seemed to be an implicit understanding in her expression and tone, as though she knew at some level that she was projecting her father as a means of learning about herself.

                    But no, I don't think the Daniel model/Kara's father had any hand in orchestrating events. I don't think teaching Kara the song was a conscious decision, but just another piece falling into place that was orchestrated by God. And also, Kara as a hybrid child does explain her infinite talents and just about every character's obsession with her, and it makes a little more sense for both her and Hera to know the song.

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                    • Nice post! I have only watched most of the episodes once. And so a lot of information gets filtered out of me over time. So you always come in here with some awesome BSG knowledge. And thanks for that!

                      I love your explanation about Kara. And in that respect, it makes absolute sense.

                      Originally posted by Kold View Post
                      I still think Kara's father was the Daniel model.
                      It seemed so obvious to me too. However I just read a tiny interview on E!Online with RDM and here is the excerpt:

                      So at last Kara Thrace (Katee Sackhoff) goes to her hard-earned rest. She found Earth, yo! For the record, though, that man teaching her piano (and therefore giving her the FTL-drive coordinates to our new home) was not Daniel. According to Ronald D. Moore at the BSG finale event last week, "Daniel's definitely a rabbit hole" that fans fell down and not the key to Kara's everlasting mystery. Instead, says R.D.M., "Kara is what you want her to be. It's easy to put the label on her of angel or messenger of God. Kara Thrace died, was resurrected, and came back and took the people to their final end. That was destiny in the show."
                      Link: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watc...es_finale.html
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                      • Aaah, thanks for that! Damn, well that's annoying. If only we got rid of that pesky Ron Moore......

                        Actually, the fact that Daniel doesn't really play into the series at all kinda annoys me, but I'm not going to harp on it. And whenever someone uses the phrase "it is what you want it to be" I get really annoyed. But at least he defined her as an angel/device of God whose whole life was defined by destiny, and I can't not love it for that. I actually really enjoy the concept of an angel who doesn't know that she's an angel, who has to struggle to come to terms with herself. And she definitely stands as one of the greatest creations of probably the greatest show I've seen.

                        Originally posted by Jenni Lou
                        Nice post! I have only watched most of the episodes once.
                        Haha, the re-watch also fulfilled a much more important purpose: I did a lot of pausing and experimenting, and I worked out how to play that song on the piano!! My life is complete, I'm expecting to lead humanity to a bright future fairly soon.

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                        • It's very interesting that RDM implied pretty specifically that Daniel wasn't Kara's father, because I'm with Jenni Lou and Kold, that almost felt like it was already established as a plot point. I kind of prefer the idea of her as a hybrid AND an angel...basically, that she was the first hybrid, but that she also died, and was ressurected, and led humanity to Earth and then again to Earth.

                          One thing I was a bit disappointed about in the finale was that Leoben wasn't in it at all really. I know they must have been really tight for time but I'd have liked just a tiny bit of resolution fo rhis character...
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                          • Kara had to pass many medical examinations in order to be in the military, and specifically all sorts of tests by Cottle (including soe cylonhood test, for sure) by Cottle after she came back; also, Baltar used his detector.

                            Even if a half-human doesn't show up as "cylon", I think they would have found something very unusual about her (Hera's blood had all sorts of strange properties).

                            So, I think "fully human" is, if we base our judgment only on on-screen events, more likely than "half-cylon".

                            I thought before (after the episode with her father) that later episodes would establish her as a half-cylon (that was what appeared to be the writers' aim, in my view), so I was convinced that her father was a Seven; however, that was speculation based both on on-screen events and a guess of what the writers might be trying to hint at.

                            Now that it's over, though, and based on on-screen events, I can't find any strong support for that theory.

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                            • Karen, I was disappointed by the lack-'o-Leoben, too, but I can stand it, seeing as he had lots of screentime throughout the series as opposed to other Cylons who had screentime in the finale, such as Doral and Simon Also, maybe Leoben was cut? Apparently, the DVD is going to have an extended cut of "A Disquiet Follows My Soul", "Islanded In A Stream of Stars", and "Daybreak". I was actually really hoping for an extended cut of "Sometimes A Great Notion", but oh well, three episodes out of ten ain't so bad! We might get Leoben in the extended cut of "Daybreak"...that's the point I was trying to make LOL.

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                              • Actually, speaking of cylons who disappeared at the end of this season, what's up with the lack of D'anna?

                                Though I think you're right about Leoben...I'm not sure what I would have left out so that he could have had space in the finale...I don't think anything!
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                                • Originally posted by litzie View Post
                                  Actually, speaking of cylons who disappeared at the end of this season, what's up with the lack of D'anna?

                                  Though I think you're right about Leoben...I'm not sure what I would have left out so that he could have had space in the finale...I don't think anything!
                                  Apparently, Leoben WAS in the finale for one short scene! Rewatching the episode/listening to the RDM podcast, I was reminded of the scene when they get to earth and are discussing what is becoming of the Centurions and so on, Leoben is in that meeting room on Galactica and has a short line. So, he was sorta in it? And in the edited part of the All Along the Watchtower/Jump/FTL thing sequence with Kara, there is a clip of an older episode of an awesome Leoben line

                                  D'Anna stayed on Earth in 4.11. There's a scene right before Tigh finds out about Ellen, which is Tigh talking to D'Anna on Earth which explained all that.

                                  Also, in the sequence of the jump and when they find Earth. Apparently, when Roslin goes, "Starbuck, where did you take us?", after that, Starbuck's scripted line is "Along the watchtower," according to RDM's podcast. The line wasn't shot, because supposedly Rhymer didn't like it (the director). But, honestly, I would have loved to see that line. It could have been cheesy, but if Sackhoff pulled it off, damn, it would've been awesome as the music swelling. However, it's AMAZING as is, but I thought I would mention it, to see what your opinions are of that.

                                  Also, even if you don't listen to/like RDM's podcast, go to iTunes, get the last podcast for FREE at the iTunes store (with all his other podcasts, if you want). THEN LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 MINUTES! Why? Because in those first 20 minutes, RDM gives his original original plan for Season 4.5 and the end of the series, and holy frak, it's much different than what it is now. There are parts I liked, like the Cylons attacking during the mutiny, but his description of the last 4/5 episodes sounded HORRIBLE in comparrision to what we have now. I'd love for you guys to hear it and give your thoughts on it

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                                  • Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                                    Also, in the sequence of the jump and when they find Earth. Apparently, when Roslin goes, "Starbuck, where did you take us?", after that, Starbuck's scripted line is "Along the watchtower," according to RDM's podcast. The line wasn't shot, because supposedly Rhymer didn't like it (the director). But, honestly, I would have loved to see that line. It could have been cheesy, but if Sackhoff pulled it off, damn, it would've been awesome as the music swelling. However, it's AMAZING as is, but I thought I would mention it, to see what your opinions are of that.
                                    Interesting. At least he left in the line "There must be some kind of way out of here."

                                    Also, even if you don't listen to/like RDM's podcast, go to iTunes, get the last podcast for FREE at the iTunes store (with all his other podcasts, if you want). THEN LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 MINUTES! Why? Because in those first 20 minutes, RDM gives his original original plan for Season 4.5 and the end of the series, and holy frak, it's much different than what it is now. There are parts I liked, like the Cylons attacking during the mutiny, but his description of the last 4/5 episodes sounded HORRIBLE in comparrision to what we have now. I'd love for you guys to hear it and give your thoughts on it
                                    I have all of them downloaded but haven't listened to any of them yet. But I will say that I LOVE that RDM puts out audio commentary for his episodes the week after they air. NO other show does that that I know of. And I think that is a special gift to the fans. I also like how they include them on the DVDs.

                                    I listen to sooo many podcasts that I often find myself getting backed up. So these commentaries always sort of get pushed back for me.
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                                    • Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                                      Also, in the sequence of the jump and when they find Earth. Apparently, when Roslin goes, "Starbuck, where did you take us?", after that, Starbuck's scripted line is "Along the watchtower," according to RDM's podcast. The line wasn't shot, because supposedly Rhymer didn't like it (the director). But, honestly, I would have loved to see that line. It could have been cheesy, but if Sackhoff pulled it off, damn, it would've been awesome as the music swelling. However, it's AMAZING as is, but I thought I would mention it, to see what your opinions are of that.
                                      Well I'm glad they didn't do that. That would have been a little too cheesy/self-indulgent. Even in the season 3 finale when they had the Four trying to do a "Magnolia" with the lyrics, I found it really didn't work... they delivered the lines as though they were speaking song lyrics, it was just a really unsubtle, unwieldy moment. So I'm alright with Kara getting the one lyric that she did, because it was fairly believable and well delivered.

                                      Originally posted by BlasterBoy View Post
                                      Also, even if you don't listen to/like RDM's podcast, go to iTunes, get the last podcast for FREE at the iTunes store (with all his other podcasts, if you want). THEN LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 MINUTES! Why? Because in those first 20 minutes, RDM gives his original original plan for Season 4.5 and the end of the series, and holy frak, it's much different than what it is now. There are parts I liked, like the Cylons attacking during the mutiny, but his description of the last 4/5 episodes sounded HORRIBLE in comparrision to what we have now. I'd love for you guys to hear it and give your thoughts on it
                                      Yeah, I think it was definitely improved all around. The idea of Ellen teaming up with Cavil, and that "the Tigh marriage conflict transcends all these generations and lives", well come on... that's just a classic case of "women in science fiction are either sex objects or have PMS because sci-fi fans are all boys afraid of women", which generally this particular show has managed to avoid. I find the very idea that Ellen would want to wipe out humanity/the other four just because her husband knocked someone up while he thought she was dead ludicrous and sexist.

                                      The best idea was that Athena and Helo would sacrifice themselves to save everyone. Not that I want that to have happened, but it would have given a lot more meaning to the running theme that Hera was actually Gaius and Caprica's child. Also it would have given them a bigger mark on the season, because neither character really had much development or storyline in season 4. Even "Someone to Watch Over Me" wasn't really about them and didn't really give them any development. Their storyline was basically over in season 1, although season 3 gave them quite a bit of development as well.

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                                      • It's here, guys! BSG Season 4.5 on DVD is coming in late July, with extended versions of "Sometimes A Great Notion", "Islanded In A Stream of Stars", and "Daybreak". The boxart is frickin' beautiful.

                                        http://www.tvshowsondvd.net/graphics...ca_S4-5_DV.jpg

                                        Link: http://tvshowsondvd.com/news/Battles...ason-4.5/11845

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                                        • WOW! There is a lot of stuf about Battlestar Galactica... Must be a good show. I've never seen it before, and with summer coming up I've been looking for a really good new show. I wikipedia-ed it and it looks pretty good, and I had been the store a few days ago looking at the dvds, but thought I better ask about it here first. I'm really interested in space and science fictiony type stuff, so would this be a good show for that? And of course, amazing storylines and characters always help !

                                          Thx for you help.

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