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  • 2.02 "Lizards" Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Well, the second episode of the second season will air tomorrow night in the US, so here is a discussion thread and a summary

    Originally posted by TV.com
    Matt seeks allies against the new Hero killer. Claire encounters a student with powers. Maya and Alejandro enter Mexico and find their powers more of a hindrance then a help. Suresh tries to locate the Haitian. Hiro works to contain the damage caused by his journey into the past. Peter falls in with Irish gangsters who taunt him with a box which contains his past. Kensei's power will be revealed.
    So, I really can't wait! I really want to know what's going on with that symbol and the whole Hiro story is very interesting. I'm hoping they don't rely on Claire that much this episode seeing as I hate her new friend Can't wait to see Matt find allies! Can't wait!

    btw, once the episode airs THERE WILL BE SPOILERS! THIS IS A SPOILER THREAD! Read at your own risk

  • #2
    can someone please tell me if Nathan dies?!?! everyone keeps telling me taht!!! IS HE DEAD YET?!!?!?
    ~:: I'm a romantic.I believe in romance.I like being in love.I think there's power there ::~

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    • #3
      Um....no, he was not dead in the first episode and is still not dead.

      SPOILERS BELOW! BEWARE!

      Well, it just aired and I gotta say, it was great! I enjoyed this episode lots, but there are one or two things that do bug me.

      Let me start with the parts I loved! Peter! I think his part is interesting, now! I really want to know what's in the box! It might have some clues to where he's been for the past four months, why he's not dead, why he has amnesia, how he got more powers, etc. I also love the fact that he has these awesome powers. They're gonna make for some pretty amazing fight scenes, in the future!

      And the whole Petrelli family is VERY interesting now! Mrs. Petrelli was amazing in this episode and I'm glad she wasn't killed by that thing I was disappointed when Nathan only showed up for one scene, but he was great, still. I loved that after all the crap he took from his mother, he still loves her and cared for her! That was great. And the interragation scene was excellent. I love how Mrs. Petrelli knew exactly what he was doing and screaming, "GET OUT OF MY MIND!" inside her head. It was great!

      I'm really eager to find out what this symbol is all about! What do we know about it? It's on Kensei's sword and means "Godsend", but why would it symbolize death and who is doing these killings?

      Anyways, I liked Claire's part this episode. Not loved, but liked. It was nice to see her cut off her pinkie! And the guy flying away....ah, I still hate that dude. But, honestly, Claire could've been a little less of a complete jerk to him! This episode answered the question about Claire's family knowing. I'm really glad it's yes and we saw how casually Claire put her hand in the boiling water. I also like that Isaac was mentioned again! So, we'll know who dies if HRG can get the other seven paintings! YAY!

      And Kensei and Hiro! Ah, what a pair I liked Hiro being all cocky as Kensei! It was really great! And I loved the girl apologizing and all, while Kensei just stared at her Still loving that actor that plays Sark, and now, Kensei! I'm liking this plot but I want to see them do something interesting with Kensei having healing powers. I want some relation to Claire because it would be weird if they just so happened to have the same power....

      Okay, bad parts

      Mohinder is boring as hell! I could not help but start "resting my eyes" when he came on with the Haitian. The Haitian's okay, but he's not lively enough to stop Mohinder from being dull Plus, he hasn't done anything to stop the company with HRG. It seems like he's just helping them, now

      Maya and Alejandro have me interested now, but deeply confused. Is that supposed to be the virus, or her power? I also am interested at how the girl with healing powers saw the devil in her, or something.

      Something I noticed last time but forgot, when Molly drew the pictures, the pictures had the symbols of "Godsend". Is the killer this "boogeyman" that sees Molly when she locates him?

      More speculation! Could one of the seven deaths be the Haitian? I've been rewatching the end of Season 1, and when Claire runs off and goes to Peter's apartment, Mrs. Petrelli is there along with the Haitian. How did they find each other without knowing each other? They must have some sort of connection.

      So, overall, I really liked this episode. I liked this episode more than the premiere. Claire's story got better, as did everyone's, really. Can't wait for next weeks!

      Comment


      • #4
        I actually really liked Claire's story. I loved her scenes, the one in class was just hilarious i though. I loved how casually she put her hand in the boiling water as well. As though it's a normal thing that people do. And her cutting off her pinkie toe was awesome. I loved the SFX of it growing back as well. I was hoping we wouldn't have to wait long for the dude in her class to find out about her. Now, he'll most likely tell her about him.

        I like Matt's scenes much more this season. I loved him interrogating Ms Petrelli. How she screamed thinking 'Get out of my head!' I though that part was cool how she suddenly knew what his power was. I really don't want her to die. I think she'll be really interesting this season. I wonder if she has a power that we've not seen yet though....

        The fight scene with Peter was cool, but that was really the only part I've found interesting about his story so far.

        I absolutely hate not seeing Niki. I'm dying to see what she's being doing without Jessica for the past four months and where she is now.

        Mohinder, I agree is still as boring as ever. I don't like him, I just think he doesn't do much.

        I think Maya is cool. I think it's actually the virus mixed with her power thats killing them, though I don't have any idea how it works, or why her brother can absorb her power or whatever and reverse whats happened.

        I agree that this one was much better than the premiere of Season 2. Hopefully it just gets better and better. I like how they all seem to be trying to live normal lives now, and Claire exploring what she can do.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Arashmaharr View Post
          I absolutely hate not seeing Niki. I'm dying to see what she's being doing without Jessica for the past four months and where she is now.
          And here, my friends, is my current reason to be sooooo pissed off at Heroes. They aren't using main characters from last season who still have cliffhangers that need wrapping up! What has Niki been doing? How about Micah? And DL? Is he dead or alive? And what about that good ol' killing machine Sylar?

          This is what I've been afraid of since I found out how many new characters they were introducing. There are too many storylines, too many characters, too many different locations...thus, main characters from the previous season are being side-lined when they definitely need a conclusion to their storyline.

          I ALSO do not appreciate NBC falsely summarizing the episode - in their original, official press release for 2.02 "Lizards," they state that this was the episode where "Niki and Micah leave Las Vegas." This did not happen. I was holding my breath, sitting through a rather silly Hiro storyline and a never-ending Claire-centric-streak up until the last ten minutes when I lost all hope in seeing my lover...I mean...Niki.

          Now, this episode was enjoyable, yes, but in no way did it blow my mind. The writers to need to get their priorities straight with their characters and storylines and wrap up open ended plots before introducing new ones. We don't want this show becoming Lost, now do we?

          The best parts of this episode were the Peter, Matt/Mama Petrelli, and Maya/Alejandro ones. Which, yes, is the majority of the episode. But they really didn't have that many scenes compared to Claire, Hiro, and Mohinder. I love how Peter's storyline is progressing (and damnnn does Mr. Milo look super hawt with his short hair... ) and I especially enjoy seeing Matt taking a superior role in the season's key storyline. It's about damn time.

          And the mystery concerning Maya and Alejandro (though their powers have been explained in the most recent TV Guide issue - the one with Ms. Bell, Ms. Larter, and Ms. Panapizza on the cover [no, I cannot spell Hayden's last name to save me life...so shoot me] - and it's essentially that Maya, when she cries, releases a virus that's instantly fatal to those in close proximity to her and Alejandro is the antidote who can cure the virus, thus meaning that their powers are pretty much unrelated to TEH EVIL MOHINDER VIRUS that's spreading at the moment) is ever-so enjoyable. They're the Niki/Jessica of this season, I think.

          I believe I'm the only person who finds Hiro's storyline rather...contrived and disappointing and lacking that comedic punch that is, apparently, the reason Hiro is still alive on the show. It all seems far too light-hearted for a show as dark and heavy as Heroes. I'd much prefer Hiro go on one of those soul searching quests we saw him on for a brief...scene last season. But not this silly feudal-Japan-I'm-meeting-my-hero-and-he's-a-drunken-idiot thing they have going right now. It isn't even giving Mr. David Anders the chance to shine - which is the most disappointing thing about it all! I love David but this isn't the type of role I enjoy seeing him in. I'd much prefer we flash forward to the future where, I'm assuming, Kensei is still alive and kicking (since I hear he's immortal...?) and show him as this badass Sark-esque character. But that might be too much to ask.

          Mohinder isn't AS boring as he was last season. At least now he has a point...But it's not a very interesting point, yet. They need to get more people involved in this Virus issue (and it looks like Niki might be in on it next...? What with her "Can You Cure Me?" bit in the trailer we've been seeing for the past two weeks). But Suresh by himself is a yawnfest unless he's playing off interesting characters like Mr. Bennet (I REFUSE to call him Noah! ) or Bob - but PLEASE not Sylar since things will get way too slashy for my tastes.

          Finally, this brings us to the Bennets...err...Butlers. They're storyline is the most interesting of the most boring storylines this season ( ). Albeit, Claire's recent "How far can I go?" shtick really has no purpose when it comes to the season's main plots (unless, *shiver*, this IS the main plot - how far is too far in which case Claire becomes dead-y-bye?! I can only hope she finds her limit soon... Just kidding.). She's not helping the Virus storyline, not doing a thing with the Murder Mystery storyline...So where does she stand?

          Mr. Bennet's hunt for Isaac's Lost Paintings, however, will make things more interesting for the family. I hope so, at least. And I loved how he told Mama Bennet about the one painting he DID have about Kaito Nakamura's death. I was surprised, honestly. But it was nice to know that he finally trusts her.

          I know I sound like a ranting lunatic who really hates this show, but I - honest to God - do not hate this show. I love it, really! But they are starting to head down a track that I don't see them coming back from any time soon unless they fix the problems now. Otherwise we'll have a "Lost: Part Deux" on our hands - crowded with questions and characters and little time for answers.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Heather View Post
            And here, my friends, is my current reason to be sooooo pissed off at Heroes. They aren't using main characters from last season who still have cliffhangers that need wrapping up! What has Niki been doing? How about Micah? And DL? Is he dead or alive? And what about that good ol' killing machine Sylar?

            This is what I've been afraid of since I found out how many new characters they were introducing. There are too many storylines, too many characters, too many different locations...thus, main characters from the previous season are being side-lined when they definitely need a conclusion to their storyline.
            Couldn't have put it better my self Heather. I was okay with her not being in the first episode, I get it, alot to set up. But come on! I think Ali Larter is one of the spotlights on the shows and I actually want to know more!

            As for the episode, I am god damn sick of Claire! I loved her at the start, but now it just seems its CLAIRE and the heroes. She just doesn't interest me anymore that she isn't in that redcheerleader outfit and she's been saved and so has the world... NEXT! Though I did find it amusing seeing her cut off her toe and for a moment I didn't think it would grow back.

            Hiro... gah... What ever... Though the twist at the end was cool, really didn't see it coming. Though I gotta say, for an American TV series there is ALOT of subtitles, it became annoying... Seriously... I would like to come home from work and not need to work to watch my show...

            The twins are cool, I love their connection and its cool that she is the "virus". It really should be interesting... Though I hope this doesn't end up giving us only one or two Niki episodes... Cause that'd suck!

            Heather, please hold me... I fear we are going to that Lost point you are talking about... I don't mind introducing new characters, and personally I'd love to see Matt leave and his story line wrap. Along with someone finally killing Mohinder... (Sylar was SOOO close...)

            Oh, and the Peter stuff was entertaining. I must admit, but I am not totaly inlove with the actors around him. I am just glad he got a hair cut v.v

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            • #7
              I think it's too soon to call "Lost" problems just because we haven't seen Nikki and Micah yet. First, it's a huge ensemble telling a, literally, global epic story. If everyone was in every episode, there could be no story at all. Second, with Nikki specifically, we already knew from Ali Larter that there are gaps in her appearances this season.

              I have enjoyed all of Claire's story so far, although not her uber-annoying, uber-pretentious stalker at all. I love that they are taking time on fannish questions like her regrowing stuff, but even more, I like that they are having at least one character having a meaningful interest in embracing and exploring their powers. So far, we've mostly had a mix of trauma, melodrama, and indifference. Other than Hiro, for whom it was almost campy, Claire is the first to really realize it's part of who she is. And to see the potential for herself because of it.

              Speaking of Hiro, it's neat and all, but it does telegraph itself a bit. I mean, it seems reasonably clear that there is some variation of a "we don't really know our heroes" cautionary tale and also a "ooh, Hiro really is Kensei" kinda twist on it. The only thing that hasn't been pretty much by the numbers in that arc was the reveal that Kensei actually has a power.

              We need more Ando, seriously. I wish they had worked in Ando being freaked out by Parkman (remembering "Five Years Gone"), but James Kyson Lee has been doing great work, and he is basically the Xander of this series as Ando.

              Seeing the Haitian back together with Noah (I'm trying to use it ) was awesome... they might as well have just used a "here comes trouble" chyron behind them when they shook hands.

              Peter is even more awesome than he ever was, and I *love* that they didn't ditch his powers. Not only that, but he did get Nikki's powers. Now, getting DL's powers is a bit more odd -- they were not even that close physically in Kirby Plaza. But, pretty cool stuff. I still want to know how they are going to write their way out of him having Ted's power anymore. Maybe they'll write it so that Ted's power is spent after a full on blast, and all his minor abilities were possible just because he hadn't used that energy yet. Of course, they'd still have Sylar to deal with.

              Speaking of... now *that* is some teasing by NBC. They have teased him in two straight previews!
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              • #8
                Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                I think it's too soon to call "Lost" problems just because we haven't seen Nikki and Micah yet. First, it's a huge ensemble telling a, literally, global epic story. If everyone was in every episode, there could be no story at all. Second, with Nikki specifically, we already knew from Ali Larter that there are gaps in her appearances this season.
                However, the gaps will show up when Niki's storyline actually STARTS. I understand that this show is a global ordeal but they're pushing MAIN CHARACTERS to the sidelines (who still have cliffhangers and open ended storylines) and shoving new characters and stories into the picture when they have yet to conclude stories from last season that need closure before new ones can begin.

                I mean, I'll accept Ali's absence when she actually gets her storyline rolling but, so far, I think they're really mistreating Niki, Micah, DL, and Sylar by ignoring their stories completely after two episodes. It's not fair to the characters or the actors OR the fans who love them.

                Like I said, I have no problem with gaps in Ali's appearences in the first half of the season since I know she said herself that she'll pop in and out throughout the season because Niki goes AWOL for a bit on her own personal mission but in the first two episodes, they really should wrap up the open ended cliffhangers (even basic ones like: What happened to DL? And Niki? And Micah? I get why they're postponing Sylar's return - to an extent - but there seems to be no purpose in pushing back Niki, Micah, and DL's roles in favor of new characters and Claire and Hiro).

                And this will bring us to that some old discussion we had a bit back about if Heroes was REALLY an ensemble show or a two person show with opening acts in the background...

                Originally posted by KingofCretins
                We need more Ando, seriously. I wish they had worked in Ando being freaked out by Parkman (remembering "Five Years Gone"), but James Kyson Lee has been doing great work, and he is basically the Xander of this series as Ando.
                Oh, I was thinking the same thing: why isn't Ando scared of Parkman? But I guess I'm glad they didn't use that since it'd involve too much explanation from Ando.

                Originally posted by KingofCretins
                Speaking of... now *that* is some teasing by NBC. They have teased him in two straight previews!
                And they've done the same thing with Niki and Micah. Again with the misleading advertisements...Ugghh.
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                • #9
                  I'm far more intrigued by Sylar, especially given what they're teasing (preview spoiler:
                  Spoiler:
                  is that Wireless giving him all that quality time?
                  )

                  I am confident Nikki and Micah's storyline will be worth the wait. Maybe they'll reward your patience by launching Nikki/Peter 'shipping

                  Incidentally, I think Ando showed up with the same sword that Hiro brought with him to Kirby Plaza -- if so, *nice* continuity touch, that he or Kaito would have kept it.

                  Seriously, though, they can't shove Ando to the side -- he is highly motivated now, he wants to do right by Hiro and I bet he wants justice for Kaito. I'd rather have him featured heavily than Mohinder. At least they dropped the voiceover this week.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                    I'm far more intrigued by Sylar, especially given what they're teasing (preview spoiler:
                    Spoiler:
                    is that Wireless giving him all that quality time?
                    )

                    I am confident Nikki and Micah's storyline will be worth the wait. Maybe they'll reward your patience by launching Nikki/Peter 'shipping

                    Incidentally, I think Ando showed up with the same sword that Hiro brought with him to Kirby Plaza -- if so, *nice* continuity touch, that he or Kaito would have kept it.

                    Seriously, though, they can't shove Ando to the side -- he is highly motivated now, he wants to do right by Hiro and I bet he wants justice for Kaito. I'd rather have him featured heavily than Mohinder. At least they dropped the voiceover this week.
                    Hmm...

                    Spoiler:
                    No. Well, no if you think that's Hana Gitelman that was introduced in 1.16 last season and who was in like...two scenes despite the hype surrounding her. She was killed off in the online comics shortly after 1.23 aired. She was trying to take out the Company's tracking system but like...got some virus and died. But there's speculation that she's still alive because she was talking to Micah on the computer at the end of the comics...

                    I think it's somebody else. Somebody related to the Company.


                    And I agree about Ando. I love Ando more than Hiro, honestly. He's more interesting and more realistic, to me. Plus, I so hope they send him down a heroic path and whatnot by trying to avenge Kaito's death, like you said. It'll be really interesting, in my opinion, having him cross paths with people like Mama Petrelli and others involved with the First Generation of heroes.
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                    • #11
                      You made me remember... how cool is Christine Rose? Every week she brings something new and awesome to Mama Petrelli. She rocks this show about as well as Mary Kay Place subtly rocks "Big Love". I loved her throwing Parkman's power in his face -- she did the equivalent of blowing a whistle into the phone when you know it's a prank call. And yet was still able to turn on the vulnerability when she was attacked.

                      I'm surprised that they
                      Spoiler:
                      would kill off Wireless like that (wasn't she so named in the first episode she appeared in? That would make her the only hero to my knowledge using a professional alias of any kind, other that Mr. Gray, of course). It's not that she was a massively important character -- in fact, her power kind of annoyed me on principle (Micah's kinda does as well), it's just that there is little to be gained from it by doing it off screen, unless they just want to sell the graphic novels as being equally important as the show. And, if they do that, they really *will* be causing some of the same problems as they do with "Lost".
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                        You made me remember... how cool is Christine Rose? Every week she brings something new and awesome to Mama Petrelli. She rocks this show about as well as Mary Kay Place subtly rocks "Big Love". I loved her throwing Parkman's power in his face -- she did the equivalent of blowing a whistle into the phone when you know it's a prank call. And yet was still able to turn on the vulnerability when she was attacked.

                        I'm surprised that they
                        Spoiler:
                        would kill off Wireless like that (wasn't she so named in the first episode she appeared in? That would make her the only hero to my knowledge using a professional alias of any kind, other that Mr. Gray, of course). It's not that she was a massively important character -- in fact, her power kind of annoyed me on principle (Micah's kinda does as well), it's just that there is little to be gained from it by doing it off screen, unless they just want to sell the graphic novels as being equally important as the show. And, if they do that, they really *will* be causing some of the same problems as they do with "Lost".
                        Spoiler:
                        Yeah, that was her alias. But her real name was Hana. I was upset they killed her off how they did since, you're right, it was off-screen and whatnot. But I liked her from earlier comics and from what we saw of her briefly. I think she would've made a nice addition to the show for Season 2 in place of some characters.


                        I love Christine Rose, too! I used to think she wasn't giving her scenes her all back in early Season 1 but once we found out her true motives and whatnot towards the end of Season 1, I really loved how she pulled off the icy bitch, yet concerned and loving mother at the same time. Truly brilliant woman. I'm hoping she sticks around for the rest of the season.
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                        • #13
                          I wonder if she is in on the inappropriate hands joke with the Pasdar and Milo, or if that's just what they want for the character.
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                          • #14
                            Spoiler:
                            Really? Hana is dead? I really wanted to see more of her!


                            Does anyone know if we'll see anymore of Candice or Claude?

                            Hope we're not getting too off topic

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                            • #15
                              I haven't seen this episode yet but I wanted to commented.

                              In another thread someone mentioned Nikki disappearing for a while, oh and in Tv Week it tells us about two new characters coming into the show, Micah's great aunt and first cousin, I wonder what they have (So Micah aleast to have appear soon), I just hope it doesn't come Lost and kill half of the main characters.

                              Also, can someone tell me what Ali Larter was doing when she was fliming Resident Evil: Exinction (Or however it spelt), like was season 2 going on while she doing RE? Could explain her absense, but Nikki must come soon since RE is now airing in Australia in theatres so she must be finished (And when the heck did she dye her hair?).

                              Oh and I finally figured out where I seen Micah, My Wife and Kids! Took me a year to figure that out (I think), or wait no half a year since Hereos came on this year, he so different comparing the two shows.

                              BTW, if anyone interested Cristina Rose is in season 2 of Charmed (She has longer hair too)

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                              • #16
                                Not really addicted to this show, but it's not bad.
                                Actually I'd love just a show with Hiro in it Would be my favourite story, and everyone else is either confusing or boring. I am kinda liking the mind reading cop though.. who's name I don't remember. What's up with that symbol.. why is it a mark of death, and why does Hiro's hero in Japan have it on his armour.
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                                • #17
                                  I wanted to comment on this episode which aired in Australia about two weeks ago.

                                  I thought it was good, I have a theory about how Peter got DL's power, think Nikki was holding DL right? So she would have bound to get some of his blood on her, so when she went up and took the pole from Sylar and hit him then Peter grabbed it and told her to go back to her family, maybe the blood on Nikki's hand (And her own power as well) made it possible for Peter to absorb DL's power, since it is all in the DNA right?, otherwise Peter would have absorbed Micah's and Molly's power as well if he was able to absorb them from there.

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