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  • Dr Who Season 3.

    So after the travesty of television planning that was the eurovision song contest the good doctor will be returning to the u.k's screens again on saturday.

    But to coin a phrase what do we think of it so far? Personally i was a little disapointed with season 2. I though DT and billie missed some of the chemistry that seemed to bubble away in season 1, but the new doc having his very own brand spanking new companion seems to have perked things up considerably. My favourite of the series so far has to be 'the lazarus experiment' (with 'the shakespear code' coming a close second).

    I still think that the doc is staying a bit too close to earth though and i would definitely like to see him test the limits of the tardis a little more.

    But wow, that mid season teaser; mind blowing! john sim and sir derek jacobi, the possible return of one of the doctors biggest foes (hopefully not the daleks this time) and all sorts of hi jinks that look likely to come.

    Almost enough to bare eurovision.
    JUST ENOUGH KILL

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  • #2
    Meh, Eurovision.

    I'm enjoying this season a lot more than I did the last one. Season one of 'new who' was fantastic, so much fun to have it back, and Rose's bubbliness was the perfect counterbalance to Nine's post-traumatic angst. Then last season that sense of balance seemed to be lost. The stories felt sillier than ever, but that might just have been more noticeable because the character dynamic wasn't working. I don't watch DW for the plot - I watch for the characters. And for that reason I struggled last year. Ten and Rose were two positives cancelling each other out, and their extreme giggliness and smugness was a real turn off. Rose was a great character, but I was glad to see her go.

    The balance feels a lot better this year, and I've really enjoyed the way the dynamic between the Doctor and Martha has played out. From her point of view, he's this mysterious and therefore very attractive stranger who blew into her life and turned it upside down, showed her the universe. She's struggled from the start to understand him, and especially where she stands with him, but she isn't afraid to challenge him and that is where she really differs from Rose. Martha makes a stand on issues that Rose would have let slide - witness her pushing him to tell her about Gallifrey, and how good it was for him to let that all out. Rose never would have done that.

    But I especially like the way the Doctor is with Martha. He's 'on the rebound', no question - Rose was the first person he bonded with after the destruction of Gallifrey and he grew enormously emotionally dependent on her. With Rose gone, he's desperately trying to fill that gap in his life; he knows he needs companionship for the sake of his own sanity. But he also knows that he's using Martha for his own emotional needs, rather than wanting her along for her own sake. And by bringing her along, he's made himself responsible for her safety...and so on the wheel turns.

    It makes for a really interesting dynamic, and I look forward to seeing how it develops now that Martha has officially become a permanent companion, rather than just being along for one trip, and then one more ad infinitum. I'm not convinced the Doctor really knows how he feels about her still - she's still more important to him for her company than for who she is - but he's learned to value her immensely, and they've each made a commitment to one another now, as travelling companions.

    Roll on the rest of the season!

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    • #3
      Spoilers for tomorrow's ep...can't remember the title of it.

      Spoiler:

      I am soooo in love with this ep of Who already...Jessica thingie from Spaced etc is brilliant, and the idea of her and the Doctor-as-human in love...the term "all my christmases have come at once" is springing to mind. I don't care if it's not well executed, I'm already so into the idea that I'll enjoy it whatever. Also, Martha is supposed to get to save the day - according to the tv preview thingie in Heat...can't believe that's where I get my who spoilers from, the world is going crazy! I'm hoping seeing the doc in love with someone else will get her to move on and be more independent.


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      • #4
        Well that was very nice.

        I wasn't in love with the ep from the start to be honest but it certainly grew on me more and more as it progressed. Mr smith was very funny from the start, loved the absentmindedness.

        The young boy was kind of weird, having what looks like some kind of time power before he gets his hands on the watch. Could this be the birth of saxon or the professor?

        The scarecrows were good scary villains but i was less than convinced about the family themselves.

        Favourite bits: falling down the stairs, the cricket ball, the long list of instructions and of course that ending.
        JUST ENOUGH KILL

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        • #5
          EDIT: In case anyone's interested...some kind person has created an image - animated to make it clearer - of all the doctors John Smith doodled in his diary...

          http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...one/WHOWHO.gif


          Originally posted by tangent View Post
          Well that was very nice.

          I wasn't in love with the ep from the start to be honest but it certainly grew on me more and more as it progressed. Mr smith was very funny from the start, loved the absentmindedness.
          Well, as I said, I loved it even before it started...and even more as I watched it. Though Martha really needs to get a grip. He's. Just. Not. That. Into. You!


          I just finished watching Dr Who Confidential, and DT (still can't get over the scottish accent) was talking about how he approached the part of John Smith - he saw it as a completely new role. I liked how John Smith was both a fully-formed character but also containing traces of the Doctor.

          I say a fully formed character, but part of the character was that he was a little sketchy around the edges, being a creation of the TARDIS (which Confidential pointed out). He was very charming, but also not quite there at times.

          Loved the moment when he gave the ok to the beating. Just yer average early 20th century boy He reminded me of Paul Pennyfeather in Decline and Fall. Though, with his trousers.

          The young boy was kind of weird, having what looks like some kind of time power before he gets his hands on the watch. Could this be the birth of saxon or the professor?
          I thought he was just psychic, but perhaps it's someting else? Would love for him to end up as a companion in a few years time. THAT would be continuity. I'm sure I've seen him in someting before, not sure what though.

          The scarecrows were good scary villains but i was less than convinced about the family themselves.
          Posh boy Baynes (Baines?) was great, but the others, less so. Scarecrows were classic Who. Reminded me of the sillines of Bertie Basset man in the 80s.

          Favourite bits: falling down the stairs, the cricket ball, the long list of instructions and of course that ending.

          OMG, bring on next saturday!

          My faves were...

          -the Doc agreeing to the caning

          -The kiss. Awww!

          -Jessica Stevenson in general. She managed to be sympathetic even though she had to be a bit mardy too, to Martha.

          - bit where he couldn't remember what his mother was...the integrity of the personality breaking down.

          So, I've been boring poor Lee with my frustrated fanvidding ambitions, but I WISH I could fanvid so I could make a vid of this ep to the Rufus Wainwright song "Do I disappoint you". Spoilertags to avoid being too tedious

          Spoiler:
          So, here are the song lyrics, and the bits from this ep and others that I think would be perfect....ok, in some places I haven't thought of anything specific, but i'm feeling all excited about it so...fill in the blanks for me? I'm not v good at remembering particular shots so if I was going to make this I'd have to go through screencaps...but the whole thing's storyboarding itself in an overall arc in my mind!

          [opening shot of John Smith walking through the school/shot of martha watching him]
          Do I disappoint you, in just being human?
          And not one of the elements,
          [cut to more dramatic Doctor Moments, eg surrounded by sunlight from the previous ep]
          that you can light your cigar on
          [upping the intensity of the shot - Doc almost burning...or could go with Doc Nine full of light]
          Why does it always have to be fire?
          Why does it always have to be brimstone?
          [cybermen attack]
          Desire
          [Dangerous moment, Doc grabbing Martha]
          Cool this body down
          [too easy...doc in deep freeze from space ep!]
          Do I disappoint you, in just being lonely?
          ["lonely god" type shot of doc]
          And not one of the elements that you can call your one and only
          [John Smith and his good lady nurse]
          Why does it always have to be water?
          [shot of something dramatic, ok, can't think of something right now...maybe doc having a fever/suffering]
          Why does it always have to be holy wine?
          [doc being turned human and in pain, cos, with the jesus imagery...]
          Destruction
          [sparks flying, some big fight scene, maybe daleks?]
          Of all mankind
          [bigass spaceship from last year's christmas special, cutting to doctor with sword]

          And do I disappoint you?
          [martha walking in on doc and nursie]
          Do I disappoint you in just being like you?
          [doc standing by the boys with the gun in the shooting scene...acting exactly like he didn't wanna act as a human, breeding next generation of violence]

          Tired of being the reason the road has a shoulder
          [doc walking thru school corridor again, repeating whatever the first shot was, fading to him walking through the tardis]
          And it could be argued, why they all return to the order
          Why does it always have to be chaos?
          [Doc and Martha being attacked in tardis, from start of ep]
          Why does it always have to be wanderlust?
          [tardis going thru space]
          Sensational
          [explosion!]
          I'm gonna smash your bloody skull.
          [doc-going-evil being taken over by sentient sun, eyes glowing]
          'Cause, baby, no, you can't see inside
          [doc in pain]
          No, baby, no, you can't see my soul
          [doc hugging the wall from season 2 finale, separated from rose]
          Do I disappoint you?
          [doc hugging wall fading to John Smith looking thoughtful in his study]
          Do I disappoint you?


          Now I'm going to start thinking of proper screencaps...and see if i can find someone to make this fcker for me!

          Last edited by Wolfie Gilmore; 27-05-07, 12:10 AM.


          -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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          • #6
            I thought he was just psychic, but perhaps it's someting else? Would love for him to end up as a companion in a few years time. THAT would be continuity. I'm sure I've seen him in someting before, not sure what though.
            Yeah i got that feeling as well, very familiar face. The companion thing would be cool but to me there was something a bit creepy about him. Also the baines/alien was giving him major evil eyes and sniffys as soon as he got back into the dorm and that was before he got the watch.

            Maybe it is for later in the season and might explain-

            Spoiler:
            why derek jacobi and john simm are both in the last two eps as supposed time travelling characters
            JUST ENOUGH KILL

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            • #7
              The kid is the little boy from love actually (and nanny mcfee and some others I believe). I found him very interesting

              I really enjoyed this ep, right from the beginning. The whole concept was a lot of fun...who would the doctor be if he wasn't the doctor? And how would martha deal with life/difficulties without him? Very unfortunately, the answer to the latter question appears to be, watch videos of him, pine, and wish aloud that he was himself again. I really like Martha, but she is a bit of a complete idiot when it comes to the doctor.

              I liked seeing the doctor as a shy, absentminded professor...but I think my favorite bit was that he'd drawn rose's face on his notebook. Perhaps I watched too many rose/dr fanvids while waiting for this episode, but I can't help feeling like their interaction was just far superior to his and martha's.

              Scarecrow guys seemed kinda lame to me actually, but I did like the maid when she'd gone all evil...scary.

              Must say, this two parter is so much better than the last daleks one...this time I actually care and am curious to see what happens in the conclusion!
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              • #8
                Ep 3.09: The Family of Blood

                I loved the second part of the two parter. You know what it made me think of? A far, far better executed version of the Fred/Illyria story. More moving, still sentimental, but not cloyingly so. I like that John Smith had a choice in the way that Fred didn't, too. Less pathetic victimy, more the-little-guy-can-be-a-hero too.

                The ending seemed a bit clipped and random, the way it cut to the Doctor's dispensation of justice. And the remembrance day bit at the end felt like it was put in there to give teachers an easy way of teaching world war I.

                But, overall? I cried like a baby. Admittedly, I am a soppy old thing, but still. Really involving telly.

                Oooh, I just have to quote some of the dialogue from the ep.

                This bit tugged at my heart strings so much, when he's deciding to become the Doctor again, being forced into the choice, but showing so much humanity in it?

                John Smith: (starting to cry) I'm? I'm John Smith. That's all I want to be. John Smith, with his life and his job? and his love. Why I can't be John Smith? Isn't he a good man?
                Joan: Yes, yes, he is.
                John Smith: Why can't I stay? [that's the bit that made me think of Fred?only better!]
                Martha: But we need the Doctor.
                John Smith: What am I, then? Now then? I'm just a story.
                Then there's the quiet dignity of Joan in her final scene with the Doctor?now that's what I call stiff upper lip. Martha, honey, you could learn from her.

                Joan: You look the same. Goodness, you must forgive my rudeness. I? find it difficult to look at you. Doctor, I must call you Doctor. Where is he, John Smith?

                The Doctor: He's in here somewhere.

                Joan: Like a story. Could you change back?

                The Doctor: Yes.

                Joan: Will you?

                The Doctor: No.

                Joan: I see. Well, then? He was braver than you in the end, that ordinary man. You chose to change; he chose to die.

                The Doctor: Come with me.

                Joan: I'm sorry?

                The Doctor: Travel with me.

                Joan: As what?

                The Doctor: My companion.

                Joan: But that's not fair. What must I look like to you, Doctor? I must seem so very small.

                The Doctor: No. We could start again; I'd like that. You and me, we could try at least, because everything that John Smith is and was, I'm capable of that too.

                Joan: I can't.

                The Doctor: Please come with me.

                Joan: I can't.

                The Doctor: Why not?

                Joan: John Smith is dead, and you look like him.

                The Doctor: But he's here, inside. If you look in my eyes.

                Joan: Answer me this, just one question, that's all. If the Doctor had never visited us, never chosen this place on a whim, would anybody here have died
                That sums up the danger of the Doctor, his irresponsible side so well. For all his professed love of humans, sometimes he just doesn't understand the effect he's having. There's something almost autistic about him!

                Mr Saxon's minions, even if they're evil minions, are right about that?the Doctor is a dangerous man. But, this episode seems to say, you have the choice of taking the wonder with the danger, or missing out on the wonder.

                Latimer: (about the Doctor) He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun?

                John Smith: Stop it.

                Latimer: He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.

                John Smith: Stop it! I said, stop it!

                Latimer: And? he's wonderful.

                This ep certainly goes back to the "no second chances" spiel that 10 gave when he first changed.

                Baines: He never raised his voice, that was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord, and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he'd run away from us and hidden. He was being kind. He wrapped my father in unbreakable chains, forged in the heart of a dwarf star. He tripped my mother into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there. Forever. He still visits my sister, once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might forgive her, but there she is, can you see? He trapped her inside a mirror. Every mirror. If ever you look at your reflection and see something move behind you, just for a second, that's her. That's always her. As for me, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work, standing over the fields of England as their protector. We wanted to live forever, so the Doctor made sure that we did.
                The Doctor is SUCH a bitca. In some ways, he's more than human, but in others, he's less:

                Joan: (after seeing a glimpse of their possible future together if John stays as he is) The Time Lord has such adventures, but he could never have a life like that.
                I love it when John Smith deconstructs the image of the doctor, pointing out the mythic nature of him and so undermining his reality to a degree.

                John Smith: How can you think I'm not real? When I kissed you, was that a lie?

                Joan: No, it wasn't. No.

                John Smith: This Doctor sounds like some? some romantic lost prince. Would you
                rather that? Am I not enough?
                John Smith may be the "story", but he's more grounded in human reality?the doctor is too much for ordinary people, but also not enough, because he can't give them what they need to feel happy or complete. He's fairytale that can't end, or can only end with parting.


                Oh, and, to lighten the mood, a rather fast show bit of dialogue here?

                Come to give me a caning, sir? Would you like that, sir?
                Suits you sir!

                litzie said: The kid is the little boy from love actually (and nanny mcfee and some others I believe). I found him very interesting
                Someoen on another site pointed out that the little boy, in his act of forgiveness and mercy re his former bully, is the anti-10. Thought tht was interesting.
                Last edited by Wolfie Gilmore; 06-06-07, 06:41 PM.


                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                  That sums up the danger of the Doctor, his irresponsible side so well. For all his professed love of humans, sometimes he just doesn't understand the effect he's having. There's something almost autistic about him!

                  Mr Saxon's minions, even if they're evil minions, are right about that?the Doctor is a dangerous man. But, this episode seems to say, you have the choice of taking the wonder with the danger, or missing out on the wonder.

                  This ep certainly goes back to the "no second chances" spiel that 10 gave when he first changed.

                  The Doctor is SUCH a bitca. In some ways, he's more than human, but in others, he's less:

                  I love it when John Smith deconstructs the image of the doctor, pointing out the mythic nature of him and so undermining his reality to a degree.

                  John Smith may be the "story", but he's more grounded in human reality?the doctor is too much for ordinary people, but also not enough, because he can't give them what they need to feel happy or complete. He's fairytale that can't end, or can only end with parting.
                  ...

                  ...I don't actually have anything to add, as you've just nicely pinpointed all the points I might have made if I'd had my thinking head screwed on while watching this ep! I had Small with me, so we watched it all cwtched up together on the sofa because she thought it was scary.

                  Joan taking John Smith and Martha to the Cartwright's cottage because she'd worked out that they were all dead, that was really well done, and so poignant. So many poignant aspects to the episode, in fact - if last season was the Doctor and Rose riding the crest of a wave and heading for a big fall, this season is the Doctor attempting to recover from that fall, having learned something of a hard lesson from it. No mercy indeed.

                  That question gets asked over and over, doesn't it - "What sort of man are you?" It's the title of the show -- Doctor Who? It's the perpetual question - what sort of person lives this kind of life? What sort of man is capable of making the kind of choices that the Doctor must make? Who is he? What does he stand for? What does he believe in and hope for and why does he keep coming back to us... to humans and to Earth. What makes us so special, when we should be so small?

                  That's the question that Joan puts to the Doctor. What kind of man is he? He hid from the Family and brought death to a small town. He risked the murder of an unknown number of people because he was (rightly) afraid of his own ability to punish four. He's not human. He's not safe. And, though he cares about humanity, he doesn't really understand it. It's as alien to him as he is to us.

                  "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of a sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe. And... he's wonderful."

                  And it's not enough. It's too much. It terrifies him. It takes Joan, holding his hand and giving small, quiet, selfless words ("I had hoped... but my hopes aren't important.") to make him realize what sort of man he has to be. And that kinda reminded me of him with Rose. Both of them, Rose and Joan, holding up a mirror to what he's doing and asking him, do you want to be the man that this choice would make you?

                  The Doctor was a rebel. But with his people gone, he can't be what he was before. He has no more law to rebel against and there is anarchy where there used to be order. He can't afford to be a rebel anymore, but he's never wanted to be a god. And yet... there's no one else. Someone has to be the Doctor, Rose says in The Christmas Invasion. And the Doctor is learning that, in the absence of the Time Lords, someone has to be a watchguard against the perversion of time and the theft of life. He has to be judge, jury, and executioner now, because he thinks there's no one else left.

                  "I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy."

                  So...yeah, I'm really enjoying this season and the character dynamics it's bringing out

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                  • #10
                    Well now, that was a change of tone from all the angst and schmoop. At first I thought I wasn't going to like it, not having much Doc and Martha action, but the girl in it was fantastic. Very funny - her lines were great - and by the end I found myself wanting her to be the new companion.

                    The statues were scary enough - if I'd been ten I would've been terrified into sleeplessness for weeks - but what really caught my imagination was the way they really milked the concept of time travel. I loved the bit at the end where the Doctor hasn't met Sally Sparrow yet, but completely takes it in his stride.

                    Oh, and the claws were out tonight...the ITV-dissing, and the internet fandom snark. RTD, what a bitca


                    -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                    • #11
                      Well now.

                      That to me was this seasons love & monsters. The action focused away from the doc and on to the human caught up in the middle of things.

                      saying that i really enjoyed it. Sally was a likeable and engaging (and very attractive) protagonist. The writing seemed sharp and the concepts atthe heart of time travel were delved into in a very interesting way with the dvd easter egg thingy.

                      The angels were pretty good villains as wolfie says and the clip atthe end showing all the gargoyles and statues along with the doc's warning not to blink was great. A few sleepless nights for the nippers there i reckon.

                      Not sure about timey-wimey though. And really want to know what the bow and arrows were for.
                      JUST ENOUGH KILL

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tangent View Post
                        Well now.

                        That to me was this seasons love & monsters. The action focused away from the doc and on to the human caught up in the middle of things.
                        Do you reckon they do these Doctor-lite eps to give the poor sausage a rest?

                        This one I vastly preferred to Love and Monsters. Not only due to the lack of disturbing pavement sex. I found the humans caught up in this more likable and believable..apart from the vid store dude, who was like something out of Coupling or Two pints of lager and a packet of endlessrepeatsonBBC3.

                        saying that i really enjoyed it. Sally was a likeable and engaging (and very attractive) protagonist. The writing seemed sharp and the concepts atthe heart of time travel were delved into in a very interesting way with the dvd easter egg thingy.
                        I've never found a DVD easter egg. I'm rather glad of that having watched this. Sinister things.

                        Re the time issue...someone pointed out some flaws to me (eg why couldn't cop dude get rescued by the Doctor and give her the message in some other way?) but while watching, it didn't seem glaring.

                        The angels were pretty good villains as wolfie says and the clip atthe end showing all the gargoyles and statues along with the doc's warning not to blink was great. A few sleepless nights for the nippers there i reckon.
                        I bet!

                        Oh, speaking of nippers, I was with a mate who's got a six year old kid and he said she's not only into this Doctor Who...she likes all the classic stuff, and when he asked her to draw a pic of the Doctor, she drew the Second Doctor! Aww, I don't know why I find that so sweet...anyway, OT!

                        Not sure about timey-wimey though. And really want to know what the bow and arrows were for.
                        I liked the fact that we didn't see what they were for - felt like the Zeppo. But timey wimey...yeah, just too cutesy wootsey. Still, it wasn't as irritating as it should be, with DT's charm.

                        Can I just say how excited I am about next week? I keep wanting to fast forward from saturday to saturday. Haven't felt this excited about a tv show since...well, I didn't watch Buffy live on telly so probably since I watched Who as a kid!

                        Spoiler:
                        Captain Jack next week, woo! Have posted a link to a clip in the spoiler thread. It doesn't give toooo much away, but interesting stuff. With some awful ham from el capitan.


                        -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                        • #13
                          Did anyone see in the trailer for next week, he talks about the rift in Cardiff in the same breath as the san andreas fault in California? Anyone else thinking?hellmouth reference?


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                            Do you reckon they do these Doctor-lite eps to give the poor sausage a rest?
                            Since the introduction of the Christmas episode after the first series, there is one episode toward the end of each season which is led by guest characters and in which the Doctor and companion barely feature - apparently, due to time constraints or some other production-y excuse, they film two episodes side-by-side, so that the bulk of this guest-led episode will be filming at the same time as another episode, hence the reduced screentime for the regulars.

                            Since the show is only 13 episodes long, and there are 52 weeks in the year, and since the Christmas episode is filmed at a completely different time to the rest of the series (summer, with the series filmed autumn-winter), I'm not sure how well that excuse holds together, but that's the party line.

                            As for this episode, I really, really enjoyed it - if only this had been the pilot for a new companion! It totally would have worked, if Sally and Larry had gone to 1969 with the Tardis instead of being left behind, and ended up travelling with the Doctor from then on. Larry might have developed into another Mickey, and Sally would have been the absolute best kind of companion - the kind that's along for the ride, is clever, and has a mind of her own and isn't afraid to use it, rather than just mooning around after the Doctor because he's so lonely and he needs me and I'm all he's got. I mean, I like Martha, I do - she's feisty and pro-active, and I like that in a companion. But the writers have turned her into such a drip about the Doctor! And it really isn't necessary - we get it! We really do. We don't need a lovestruck companion pointing it out to us every five minutes to understand that the Doctor is a tragic hero, the last of the Timelords, doomed to live on indefinitely while the people around him age and die, or move on without him, and so on.

                            Ahem. This is turning into a bit of a rant, and I'm meant to be talking about the episode. Have we really had ten episodes already? Wow. Time really does fly, no? This was such a fantastically creepy and clever episode - way to use time travel without any of those pesky paradoxes creeping in! Loved the stone angels that only move when you aren't looking at them. Don't blink! That was a fab idea for a monster, and the guest characters were all engaging enough to connect to and care about, even after only a short acquaintance, which is how it should be. Other writers could learn a lot from that.

                            So - clever and creepy story, engaging characters, and lots of snappy dialogue = one highly entertaining 45 minutes of TV. We'll have more of that for the rest of the season, please!

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                            • #15
                              We don't need a lovestruck companion pointing it out to us every five minutes to understand that the Doctor is a tragic hero, the last of the Timelords, doomed to live on indefinitely while the people around him age and die, or move on without him, and so on.
                              No, we certainly don't. After all, tragic heroes seem far more tragic when no one notices just how lonely they are. Lex Luthor on Smallville, say ? none of the other characters go all "poor woobie, what a tragic life" (well, possibly because of the whole evil thing ), and that's what makes him so sympathetic and pitiable. They leave it up to the audience to notice the tragedy.

                              Not that I want the Doctor to be Mr Tragic Heathcliff Hero?he's a complex character, and reducing him to a woobie would be a shame. Don't think they're doing that, mind you, cos they're still keeping the humour and the strangeness and the changeability. But they should lose Martha's obsession, deffo. I think, to follow Rose, what they needed was a non romantic pairing ? on both parts. Perhaps would've been simpler if they'd gone with a (straight) male companion this time? Avoid any expectations of romance (pace the slashers, obv).

                              But, talking of slash?[spoiler]am looking forward to Jack next week. I hope they can find the fun with him a bit, he's definitely at his best when he gets to be bawdy and not so Angel-ic.


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                              • #16
                                I'm hoping to have fun Captain Jack back, as well! The broody Torchwood version was a bit hard to take, in comparison.

                                Feel I should probably find something to say about this last episode, because it was fab, and I loved every moment of it, which isn't something I find I can usually say about the guest led episodes, so it deserves an awesome rating just for that fact alone. So I started writing on LJ, and ended up with a mini essay

                                Start at the beginning. Creepy derelict house? I had a Supernatural moment - don't go into the haunted house, Sally! And the writing on the walls, hidden under the wallpaper? Can just imagine how the 1969 residents felt about the Doctor and Martha installing that lot. Someone should write the wacky adventures of the Doctor and Martha trapped in 1969, him bumming around inventing timey-wimey machines out of a tape recorder, postcards and elastic bands and living off her minimum wage, and the two of them invading someone's house so they can write on the walls and then wallpaper over the top of it.

                                Beware the weeping angel! Fabulous. Creepiest villain DW has managed since the Empty Child, since you don't see them moving because you can't see them move. Don't blink! The actors playing the stone angels do an amazing job - wonder if they employed those blokes who occasionally paint themselves white and stand around in the city centre pretending to be statues...

                                So...the stone angels can only move if no one is looking at them, including themselves, and if anyone does look at them, including themselves, they turn to stone - way to have an existential crisis, angels! 'Cept the whole 'can't kill stone' argument doesn't entirely hold water, because no, you can't, but you can smash stone into many many smithereens, given the right equipment.

                                Sally's reaction to a stressful and inexplicable night is to go around to her mate's house, break in and put the kettle on. At 1am. What was she doing photographing the creepy derelict house at that time of night anyway? Asking for trouble! Or maybe I really have watched too much Supernatural, and there's no reason to fear derelict houses by night after all. *G*

                                Girl Investigators - Sparrow and Nightingale! "A bit ITV, isn't it?" Hee.

                                Kathy's grandson looks kinda creepy, but turns out to be a devoted grandson carrying out his beloved grandma's last request, having carefully hoarded that letter and her instructions about the date and time for twenty years. Whoa. Kinda makes you wonder about Kathy's life, 1920-1987, how she had no way of explaining what had happened to her, but must have gone over it in her mind, over and over, until all the details were engraved there. The place, the date, the precise time at which it happened - the creepy derelict house and mysterious man at the door. When did she figure out it was her grandson? Did she figure out it was her grandson, or was she simply desperate to get a message back somehow, anyhow, and fate took care of the rest? Such clever writing. I love that in her letter she sounds like a person who'd grown up in the period she found herself, so old-fashioned, having had 60+ years in which to lose all trace of her modern self.

                                "Told him you were 18, you lying cow." I really, really like that this episode makes me care so much about the guest characters, without ever over-playing them - they work because the episode just gets on with telling the story, instead of hitting us over the head with how sympathetic it wants the characters to be.

                                I wonder just how the Doctor's encounter with the stone angels panned out, for them to have got hold of the Tardis key like that. I mean, he doesn't usually go waving it around. Clearly it was the same one that touched both him and Martha, for them to have ended up in the same year - lucky for Martha. So it couldn't have been a group skirmish or anything. Interesting to speculate.

                                I like Sally and Larry together, because he's clearly got plenty of brains, but is so gormless, and she's completely got him on the back foot from the moment of meeting him while he was naked, and she's so amused by him, but fond of him for Kathy's sake, and then later for his own, and it's just nice and works. And another reason why they'd have made decent companions because they'd have had a fledgling relationship of their own to confuse them, so no Doctor hangups.

                                And then there's Billy, and he's another really cool character who got totally jibbed by his storyline. "Life is short and you are hot."

                                I got touched by an angel and woke up in 1969, am I dead, in a coma or- nope sorry wrong show, said someone else's review on LJ, which is awesome. Because Sam Tyler totally got a way better deal than Billy!

                                The Doctor trapped in 1969 is nine kinds of awesome, as he'll happily tell anyone who cares to listen, and I like Martha being all 'just nod when he stops for breath', because I like my companions snarky not sappy and she should always be like that. "It goes ding when there's stuff," is the Doctor's highly technical explanation of his timey-wimey machine. That is so him. It's like Nine explaining his upgrading of Rose's phone as jiggery-pokery.

                                And then half an hour and 38 years later Billy and Sally are reunited, and I like about her that she's the kind of girl who will sit with an old man she barely knows so he doesn't die alone. Because Billy is still lovely even when he's old and sick and dying, and he never forgot her, through all those years, and now she'll never know if they could have had something or not, and he lived his whole life wondering the same thing and waiting to deliver the Doctor's message, and thought about looking for her before now. But he couldn't, because this is the day she met him, so what could he have said to her if he'd found her earlier? I mean, besides the Doctor's dire warnings about what would happen if he did, all of which were totally made up to scare him out of doing anything stupid, like stalking her as she grew up, clearly.

                                I love that Billy got into video and DVD publishing, and pirated all those DVDs with the Doctor's message, because coming from 38 years in the future he totally had the headstart needed to launch himself into the industry. But he has to have had technical smarts, too, to pull it off.

                                Just why Sally and Larry had to watch the Doctor's message at the creepy derelict house is beyond me. I mean, I get the dramatic storyline necessity for it, but it seems like a really stupid thing to do, and I thought they were cleverer than that. But I love the future/past conversation, and how cleverly it is written, because the conversation across the years completely works, but the Doctor's remarks also tie in neatly with what Sally said way back in the shop, as well, and that's what makes it so cool.

                                "I'm clever and I'm listening, and people have died and I'm not happy." See, this is why I'd have loved for Sally to be a new companion, because she is clever (apart from coming back to the creepy angel-infested house to do this) and she doesn't take any nonsense, and she can stand on her own two feet and doesn't need her hand held when things get tough.

                                And the Doctor on wobbly 1969 video footage with the glasses? Adorable. Plus, the brief glimpse we get of Martha's 1969 hairdo is fab.

                                "Don't blink. Blink and you're dead." And everyone's lives depend on her, to boot. So...no pressure, or anything.

                                The transcript runs out, because Larry is frozen with terror, and because he can't keep his eyes fixed on the stone angel and keep up the shorthand all at the same time! Because men just don't multitask in that way. He looks so terrified when Sally leaves him alone to rush off in search of an exit. See, this is why they should have had the DVD session in someone's house and worried about the creepy derelict building later!

                                Any show that can have you yelling 'Don't blink!' at the TV this many times in one 45 minute session must be doing something right. There's even a bit of classic Doctor Who running about thrown in there for good measure.

                                How cool is it that the DVD is encoded to activate the Tardis! Just how long did the Doctor and Billy hang out for the Doc to explain everything he had to do to achieve it? Or did he have all the technical jiggery-pokery all ready when Billy arrived, and just had to convince him to act upon it? I don't read DW fanfic, but maybe I should start if someone starts writing 'trapped in 1969' stuff!

                                Oh, it's bigger on the inside. Every new person to step through that door has to have that reaction. I mean, just because it's old hat for viewers doesn't change the impact it has on anyone new, so it's only right that the reaction should always be there.

                                It is very cool that the angels are able to shake the Tardis around from the outside, because it's just a wooden box, and Sally and Larry get thrown all over the console room inside, which is massive. It's because of quantum, undoubtedly.

                                The Tardis leaves without them. How scary is that? But this is the point at which we could, in another universe, have veered off into new companion territory, if it did take them with it. Of course, the Doctor would then be stuck with the problem of getting them home again, which could potentially involve more of that 'just one trip to say thanks' malarkey - and that's where the new companion thing would come in - and he's probably already got a pretty good idea that that never happened, because of that meeting he had with Sally in his past and her future, and it does tend to make your brain hurt if you think in too many circles. But he's thought of everything! Because he's the Doctor! Tardis gone, the angels are trapped looking at each other, and Sally and Larry are saved. The angels are forced to play ring-a-roses forever. Or until the light bulb dies. Or until someone with influence acquires the right equipment to have them smashed to smithereens. You know, whatever happens first.

                                The Doctor and Martha running around with bow and arrows? Forget the Doctor and Rose with those stupid coloured buckets last season - this is the kind of off-screen adventure hint we like to see! Because Ten with bow and arrow slung over his shoulder in the middle of the high street? Adorable. And Sally is awesome in this scene, figuring out the last details and handing him the folder of exposition, and finally allowing herself to move on. And I love how the Doctor is with her in this scene, because he has no idea what she's talking about, but he doesn't dismiss her, accepts what she's got to say, because he's interested in people, and he understands that time doesn't always move in a straight line.

                                Now, for the Doctor to still be holding that folder when the angels attack, does that mean that whenever he encounters them - a year or whenever ago - must be pretty soon after this? Those final shots of random statues seems to imply that. And also - talk about location spotting heaven! I can locate every single one of the statues we see in that final medley. Fantastic.

                                Roll on next week's ep

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                                • #17
                                  Someone should write the wacky adventures of the Doctor and Martha trapped in 1969, him bumming around inventing timey-wimey machines out of a tape recorder, postcards and elastic bands and living off her minimum wage, and the two of them invading someone's house so they can write on the walls and then wallpaper over the top of it.
                                  I think quite a few people have already! Just as with the angels/phonebox tshirts?they appeared on cafepress quicker than you could say nerdyhomage.

                                  I read a pretty good one on LJ, actually ? someone called something like sillygirlie?she's on my friends list. It had some nice details, like
                                  Spoiler:
                                  having the Doctor suddenly speaking in Gallifreyan, because they've been separated so long from the TARDIS that Martha' internal translation tools no longer work, so he has to make a conscious effort to speak English. Hmm?.or was it just because they were in a diff time to the TARDIS? I forget. Either way, was nicely done. Not a lot by way of plot, but enjoyable.


                                  "Told him you were 18, you lying cow."
                                  That confused me, cos I thought she meant she was younger?but how old were they supposed to be? I was generally ? on reflection ? a little confused about the mechanics of Sally's life. Was she supposed to be a student? Why did she start working in a shop? That seems incongruous with her personality somehow. But still, as you say, cared about her lots.


                                  "I'm clever and I'm listening, and people have died and I'm not happy." See, this is why I'd have loved for Sally to be a new companion, because she is clever (apart from coming back to the creepy angel-infested house to do this) and she doesn't take any nonsense, and she can stand on her own two feet and doesn't need her hand held when things get tough.
                                  Amen! Someone complained she was too "Mary Sue-ish" because she was so snarky and smart and articulate?yet I think the same people probably complain about Martha being too spineless. You can't please some people! And I resent the inference that for a girl to be smart and charming, she has to be a Mary Sue ? as if it's unlikely that a girl could be that amazing. Huh!


                                  I don't read DW fanfic, but maybe I should start if someone starts writing 'trapped in 1969' stuff!
                                  They have, and you should! I've just started reading DW fic. Some awful schmoopy stuff out there but also some very clever, good writing.

                                  About the Angels' final fate ? I did feel like they'd de-stone again once the light went out?did I miss a bit of splainy that said otherwise?


                                  -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                                  • #18
                                    I've not explored Doctor Who fanfic in any way whatsoever, mostly because what I have seen has tended to be Doctor/Rose mawkishness. Although having said that there is one writer who does DW stuff that I really like. She hasn't ventured into the Ten zone, though, as far as I know.

                                    Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                                    That confused me, cos I thought she meant she was younger?but how old were they supposed to be? I was generally ? on reflection ? a little confused about the mechanics of Sally's life. Was she supposed to be a student? Why did she start working in a shop? That seems incongruous with her personality somehow. But still, as you say, cared about her lots.
                                    I got the impression Kathy had lied to seem younger than she was, out of vanity or whatever.

                                    No idea what Sally was meant to be during the episode, but in the final scene she and Larry had opened that shop together - antiquarian books and DVDs. She said she liked old things - "they make me sad...it's happy for deep people" hee - so the antiquarian books part of that would be a business venture that fits in with her established personality. How the shop thing came about probably ties in with however her relationship with Larry developed after going through wacky adventures together. More fanfic potential

                                    Don't think there was any angel 'splainy about what happened if the light went out, and Sally and Larry never got the Doctor's full explanation about how they worked, did they? That was delivered to Billy in 1969. So they didn't really have much to go on.

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                                    • #19
                                      Omg this season is so cool i am loving it soo much i loved the last one woth the angels, how scary i am loving David Tennant Day by Day and like Martha better then Rose
                                      <3 Broken Smile<3
                                      <3 Broken Dreams<3

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                                      • #20
                                        okay this is a little random but...

                                        Just read something on another site that the object thrown at sally at the start of the ep, when she read the message saying 'really duck!!' could well have been a plaster duck.

                                        Not sure wether to trust this source and can't seem to find a screen cap for it.

                                        Anyone help.
                                        JUST ENOUGH KILL

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