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  • Who Will Buffy End Up With?

    I was just on Buffy Wikia and was reading about Satsu and it just came over me that Buffy will ultimately end up with someone. But Who.

    I personally voted for Satsu. I doubt it very much but i think there is something there. It would be an amazing twist. I don't wnat Buffy to be with Angel or Spike. When she is old they will be young (if they are still vampires). But Buffy and Satsu seriously. Would be good!
    80
    Angel
    27.50%
    22
    Spike
    22.50%
    18
    Riley
    1.25%
    1
    Satsu
    1.25%
    1
    Xander
    23.75%
    19
    Alone
    23.75%
    19

  • #2
    Well I don't think she has to end up with anybody!

    Trying to look objectively at the list I think the three most likely outcomes would be "Angel" "Xander" or "Alone" and honestly I'd be hoping for the third one. I think Angel has a better shot than Spike now it's been confirmed Joss thinks Buffy feels more for Angel, Xander seems like her most likely love interest this season (and possibly season nine) and I'm not sure the series will even go on after that and "alone" because Joss could fence sit.

    I don't think it'll be Spike, it'll either be fence sitting with Angel/Spike or it'll be Angel as my best guess, I don't think it'd ever be Riley or Satsu and honestly there's nothing textual to even suggest that Buffy/Xander will happen.

    So probably....

    Alone.

    Buffy alone is so much better anyway so I hope I'm right

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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    • #3
      I still think Xander. Its both a personal wish but at the same time something I think is quite plausible to actually occur eventually.

      She doesn't deserve to be alone though, that's key for me. Season 5 dictated the theme that "death was her gift", and it really was, until she was brought back to a much more harsh, much more cruel world in comparison to where she was. And since then she's kept right on truckin' with the hero gig. How incredibly depressing it would be if this woman never got to share her life with anyone. I mean I'm not suggesting she needs someone to be happy, but she deserves it. So I don't want her to end up alone.
      Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-03-09, 07:06 AM.

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      • #4
        I think it will be xander and should be the xan man.. i will explain when i get a chance.. new to this forum...

        how do you get a picture to be in your signature... im having a hard time making it work....?
        http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...uy/Bander2.png
        "Can I have you? Uuhh, can I help you?"
        "We've fought some blood-sucking fiends, and that's all been a good time. But I want more. I wanna dance "with you. "

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        • #5
          You need to be a VIP member, I'm not sure if I remember it correctly (the rules changed) but you need 400 posts for that and no warnings.


          I'm agreeing with Mogs, and didn't we had the same poll here. (With my sad protest poll on the Angel forums with the question who Angel needs to end up with, and then we figured out that almost everybody is dead, poor Angel.)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sacred Knight View Post
            I still think Xander. Its both a personal wish but at the same time something I think is quite plausible to actually occur eventually.
            I think the season has done a good job at making it plausible in a lot of people's eyes. I mean if you'd done this poll before season 8 there's not a chance in hell Xander would be even close to being up there with Angel right now. Season Eight's bucked the trend and IMO Xander's a serious contender now on polls. Which he never was before.

            What I mean by "nothing textual" is that we haven't got any strong indication in the text that it's heading in that direction, we've got a vibe but nothing really else. And no external interview really strongly suggests without question it's an upcoming plot point in this season.

            She doesn't deserve to be alone though, that's key for me. Season 5 dictated the theme that "death was her gift", and it really was, until she was brought back to a much more harsh, much more cruel world in comparison to where she was. And since then she's kept right on truckin' with the hero gig. How incredibly depressing it would be if this woman never got to share her life with anyone. I mean I'm not suggesting she needs someone to be happy, but she deserves it. So I don't want her to end up alone.
            See I've always saw Buffy as someone who can actually be happier and healthier when she's not with somebody. The Scoobies are always closer when their partners aren't in the mix and Buffy seems to be at her happiest when she's close to them. I'd like her to be alone at the end of the series, "baked" and ready for a new relationship... but we don't actually see it. I don't want her to be alone until she dies, just alone as long as we get to watch her.

            Originally posted by Nina View Post
            I'm agreeing with Mogs, and didn't we had the same poll here. (With my sad protest poll on the Angel forums with the question who Angel needs to end up with, and then we figured out that almost everybody is dead, poor Angel.)
            Yeah we've had this before me thinks.

            Poor Riley... Surley someone out there thinks there'd be more of a chance of Buffy/Riley than Buffy/Satsu being the likely end game!

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            • #7
              I voted for Angel, but if I had to rate the likelihoods of each selection:

              1) Alone - Joss fence-sitting on Angel/Spike and Buffy ending up alone only for that reason.

              2) Angel - If Joss ever dares to piss off half the fanbase, I think Spike knows that Angel has always had a better shot at ending up with Buffy. Recent comments by Georges and Joss point to her still having feelings for Angel and that the favoring of Angel in the dream panel was intentional (and actually there on purpose to say something about how Buffy felt; she loves them both, but is still hanging on to Angel). Angel strikes me as much more likely to prefer being a family man if there is ever a time where there is no more work to be done (*the* big hold up--and a bigger one than waiting for the Shanshu).

              3) Xander - I've noticed there's a lot of wishful self-placement for males with this selection. While Joss intended for this relationship to happen before the largely female obsession with Angel forced him to change directions, we've already got Restless saying that the relationship is brother/sister. That's going to have to be dealt with. Xander had a revelation that Buffy's feelings toward him are sisterly and that's why she never truly showed interest in him. She's never liked him that way. He was just "one of the girls"--a near family member/friend like Willow and Giles whom she never had any romantic feelings toward.

              4) Spike - Honestly, I only see it if something bad happens to Angel and Spike gets the Shanshu, which I can't see him liking. Spike's best hope is that Buffy decides to take both Angel and Spike back into her life rather than just one (if she had to choose just one, the signs point to Angel). Spike's own insecurity about the relationship is actually one of the biggest hurdles. Spike never believed she loved him and it doesn't seem like he's secure enough to want to find out Buffy's feelings about him (which is why he still hasn't told her that he's alive).

              5) Riley - With his recent involvement with Twilight, his possible still-married status and the fact that Buffy doesn't love him (it's good to note who isn't in Buffy's dream sequence)... Yeah, just about zero chance.

              6) Satsu - Buffy might care about Satsu, but it's a relationship that is one-sided and Buffy and Joss have both made it clear that lesbianism is not Buffy's preference or what she desires in the long-run. Also, the subordinate issue makes it an unbalanced relationship.
              Last edited by NileQT87; 03-03-09, 08:36 AM.

              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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              • #8
                Never does 'Restless' confirm that Buffy views Xander as a brother. All it does is show that in Xander's head this is how he thinks Buffy views him. Each dream for each character was about how they perceive the world and how they think others perceive them. In Willow's head all the characters, including Buffy and Xander mock her and her "disguise" up in front of the class, but it doesn't mean Buffy and Xander actually feel this way. It only shows us that Willow's insecure and thinks people may view her in this manner.

                If Buffy viewed Xander as a brother, she wouldn’t have had her dream in ‘The Long Way Home’ of kissing him and wanting him to “come to bed” and if Xander viewed Buffy as a sister he wouldn’t have joked about both of them having a “quickie” before Xander walks down in the aisle in ‘Hells Bells’ or joke about Buffy’s hastiness in “not wanting a new cheerleading outfit” in 'Him.' They are aware of eachother on a sexual level and have never acted like brother/sister.

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                • #9
                  You're ignoring the "one of the girls!" comment in The Witch. It was made clear from the beginning that Buffy thought of Xander no different from Giles and Willow. He's like family to her, but not "that way". Hence, Xander finally realizing that ALL ALONG Buffy didn't have feelings for him because she always saw him as a brother. Xander finally gets why she didn't show feelings for him in Restless. It's a comprehension moment of Buffy's treatment of him.

                  As for season 8, after being celibate for several years and being surrounded by almost nothing but females, she's probably dreaming about any guy in sight at this point. She's to the point where she's dreaming about exes, good friends and celebrities. Just because she's dreaming about them, she's not likely going to end up with Christian Bale or Daniel Craig.
                  Last edited by NileQT87; 03-03-09, 08:54 AM.

                  "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                  "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                    You're ignoring the "one of the girls!" comment in The Witch.
                    If Xander was really one of the girls Buffy wouldn't have forced him to turn around in 'Never Kill A Boy On The First Date' whilst she changed It'd have been perfectly ok for him to stand around casually as it was for Willow in that scene if Buffy wasn't aware of him on a manly level.

                    And you'd also have to ignore their prolonged gaze and moment in 'Phases' after Xander saves Buffy from Theresa or even their "but I had you to bring me back" moment at the end of 'Inca Mummy Girl.'

                    Regardless, 'The Witch' is rather irrelevant now when we're discussing what's likely for Buffy's future isn't it? A comment she made way back in the third episode ever of the series in no way takes precedent over a sexy dream she had of Xander, wherein it's implied it may not even be the first, that took place in the first episode of *this season.* If we're talking about the likelihood of her current feelings, 'The Long Way Home' is a better source to draw upon than what Buffy said three episodes into season one.

                    'Restless' has never been the end of a possible Buffy/Xander ship, Espenson says it was still in the works as late into season five with 'I Was Made to Love You' which has a shippy vibe all over it if you ask me. I didn’t need an external interview to tell me that.

                    As for season 8, after being celibate for several years and being surrounded by almost nothing but females, she's probably dreaming about any guy in sight at this point. She's to the point where she's dreaming about exes, good friends and celebrities. Just because she's dreaming about them, she's not likely going to end up with Christian Bale or Daniel Craig.
                    Well actually, using Buffy's fantasy dreams in 'Anywhere But Here' IMO only strengthens my point. In her dream with Angel/Spike in 'The Long Way Home' involved two men she was deeply involved with or interested with on some level. And in the preview pages for the upcoming issue it's revealed that Daniel Craig's appearance in 'Anywhere But Here' wasn't just a one-off but that Buffy actually has a crush on him that's more than just a one dream thing. Same can easily be said for Xander. One could actually make the link between Bale's outfit and Xander's outfit if you want to get really into it
                    Last edited by vampmogs; 03-03-09, 09:05 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Times change though, and with it so can people. The way Buffy felt 4-5 years ago (Season 8 time) by no means it has to be the benchmark as to how she feels in the present. That's what would make the transition so easy and so realistic. You don't have ignore their past relationship to plausibly evolve it into something new and something more. It'd be the most natural thing Joss could do if he wants to. If he doesn't, fair enough, but its there for the taking.
                      Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-03-09, 09:04 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Buffy was aware that Xander had feelings for her, but she saw him as "one of the girls". She had him turn around because she was well-aware that he was interested. Her feelings for him were that he was "one of the girls". She was aware of his interest in her and his jealousy over Angel. She just usually chose to ignore it or make a casual brush-off of it.

                        "But I had you to bring me back" harkens back Prophecy Girl where Buffy makes it clear that she doesn't think of him the way she thinks of Angel and When She Was Bad where she USES him during the dance to make Angel jealous/be mean to him (which she states in Some Assembly Required as her reason for the dance). The dance was more about being cruel to Angel, but she also got in a jab at Xander where she acted ungrateful for being saved.

                        In Phases, she had just lost Angel to Angelus. She was very emotionally raw. Giles, Willow and Xander were all she had left. She wanted to be comforted and was looking for it.

                        Actually, I've seen more arguments for Christian Bale a.k.a. Batman being the equivalent of Angel (there's been more than a few references to him being a Batman figure) and Daniel Craig being more like Spike (with Wesley being the Pierce Brosnan version of Bond). Xander's been getting all the Nick Fury/Captain Ron references.
                        Last edited by NileQT87; 03-03-09, 09:15 AM.

                        "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                        "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nile I'm not suggesting that Buffy was in love with or really had any deep romantic feelings for Xander in season two, it was quite clear it was Angel on the brain for her at that present time. I was merely pointing out it's always been played with on some level and as a result of that, it's always been on another level that "brother/sister" or "one of the girls." It's always been an option, always been viable if as Sacred Knight says, the writers decide to go that way.

                          Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                          In Phases, she had just lost Angel to Angelus. She was very emotionally raw. Giles, Willow and Xander were all she had left. She wanted to be comforted and was looking for it.
                          Actually the shooting script basically implies that this was a romantic hold, one that went beyond friendship. "They continue to HUG. A little too long. They pull apart a bit and look at each other." You couldn’t have done that scene with Willow or Giles in Xander’s place.

                          Actually, I've seen more arguments for Christian Bale a.k.a. Batman being the equivalent of Angel and Daniel Craig being more like Spike.
                          I know, I've argued them the Bale/Angel one myself The two Bales, one dark, one light represent Angel/Angelus, Buffy in her dress represents 'Halloween' and the ball they are attending represents the prom Buffy/Angel shared together.. and as you say Angel/Batman comparisons... However, that doesn't mean Xander has to be excluded from getting a link as well.
                          Last edited by vampmogs; 03-03-09, 09:16 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Which is why I said she was looking for comfort during that whole period. You'll notice she gets much closer to all three of the Scoobies in that period. She's hurting and trying to get close to her friends. Yes, there's an uncomfortably long hug there, but it's because she's looking for comfort wherever she can get it. It was a vulnerable moment because of her pain over losing Angel and what Angelus is doing to her. It mirrors Giles giving her the parental comfort speech at the end of Innocence. She got comfort from someone who desires her (it isn't about reciprocation) in Phases.

                            "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                            "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No matter what anyone saids there has always been..atleast a little bit of sexual tension between buffy and xander... in all seasons.. xander may have talked himself into the whole buffy being a sister thing and buff may still think that too. One thing for sure.. once you have that feeling for somebody.. xanders case with buffy.. it just dosent go away how much you try, u may be able to burry it.. almost forget it, and lock it up... for it all to come back is very simple.. buffy has make an action to open it all back up.. say something on accident, or finaly realizes what she needs has been right there in front of her the whole time.. and don't tell me xanders just going to shrug her off.. he might at first, but she just opend up an old wound that never healed right, and love is something that dosent go away..
                              Last edited by WhiteKnight; 03-03-09, 09:35 AM.
                              http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...uy/Bander2.png
                              "Can I have you? Uuhh, can I help you?"
                              "We've fought some blood-sucking fiends, and that's all been a good time. But I want more. I wanna dance "with you. "

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                                Which is why I said she was looking for comfort during that whole period. You'll notice she gets much closer to all three of the Scoobies in that period. She's hurting and trying to get close to her friends. Yes, there's an uncomfortably long hug there, but it's because she's looking for comfort wherever she can get it. It was a vulnerable moment because of her pain over losing Angel and what Angelus is doing to her. It mirrors Giles giving her the parental comfort speech at the end of Innocence. She got comfort from someone who desires her (it isn't about reciprocation) in Phases.
                                I think we'll just have to agree/disagree on this one Nile

                                IMO using Buffy/Giles as a comparison in 'Innocence' only makes me believe more that 'Phases' has more shippy significance than mere comfort. Buffy didn't look for Giles to take on a parental mode at the end of 'Innocence' both of them just slipped into those roles naturally because it's how they both felt. She wasn't looking for Giles to take on a parental tone in that conversation, it just happened because it's how their relationship was. In 'Phases' Buffy wasn't using Xander for some kind of brief romantic attachment because she knew he felt romantically for her, she just naturally clinged onto him and in the moment it became something else, something that made Xander's life "complicated" and something Buffy had to pull away from because for however momentary, she felt it too.

                                The Buffy/Angel/Xander triangle was advertised in those seasons, just check out the promo pics. There’s one where Buffy will be touching Angel with Xander standing next to them, then another when Buffy’s touching Xander and Angel’s standing next to them. No love triangle is really viable or interesting if it’s completely between two people with a “third wheel” who’s feelings are being completely unreciprocated. Any good love triangle I’ve personally seen always have some form of reciprocation to make it possible, to make it a viable triangle. It’s the way it works, there’s the one in the middle who the other two want and then there’s the one in the middle who in some ways is interested in both but one usually more. Buffy’s the one in the middle, Angel’s the guy she’s really interested in, but Xander’s the guy that “could have been” at least was an option at some point, someone who’s teased as the possible guy.

                                But I really think we should just agree to disagree because I doubt either of us are going to change our minds
                                Last edited by vampmogs; 03-03-09, 09:35 AM.

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                                • #17
                                  That was the whole dynamic of the early seasons. Xander loves Buffy, but Buffy loves Angel. Yes, Xander's feelings were unreciprocated. That was the whole point.

                                  The whole point was that Buffy didn't want the guy whom she just saw as a platonic friend from the start. She wanted the dark, tortured, mysterious guy, instead. Xander's arc was in dealing with being the third wheel--the unreciprocated "Duckie love" plotline--and then finally realizing in Restless why his feelings hadn't been reciprocated. He realized the truth of how Buffy felt about him all along and what he had always tried to hold out hope for. It wasn't Xander realizing that he felt Buffy was like a sister, it was Xander realizing that was the behavior that Buffy had always shown to him--because that's really how she thought of him. It was an awakening moment of finally understanding why she had never been interested in him.

                                  Think of Buffy/Angel/Xander as the old Andie/Blane/Duckie story, because that is what it is. In both cases, the girl doesn't choose the guy who is the "friend" she sees a lot like a brother and it takes them both a long time to get it. And you're looking at somewhere here who is an Andie/Duckie 'shipper (can't stand the major appliance), so it's painful to compare it to Buffy/Xander, but it's the truth of what that dynamic was written to be. Buffy/Andie just never had sexual feelings towards guys who loved them very much and you see it all along. Obviously, many people root for the Duckie/Xander figure to finally get the girl, but it doesn't always work out that way. Buffy/Andie can't change the way they feel about people who they nearly see as family.

                                  And if Blane hadn't come to prom for Andie, she would have ended up with Duckie. She might have even settled for him. It's much like Buffy and Xander--she could settle for him if she doesn't get who she wants. The difference in the viewing of Duckie and Xander's viewpoints is that BtVS is largely seen through the scope of Buffy's eyes, whereas Pretty in Pink is a lot more muddled between Andie and Duckie's P.O.V.s. Duckie gets a lot more sympathetic focus than Xander, which is why you never are really watching or sympathizing with Xander's side of the unreciprocated relationship. Ironically, both had intended Andie/Duckie and Buffy/Xander endings and were both changed due to audience reaction.
                                  Last edited by NileQT87; 03-03-09, 10:02 AM.

                                  "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                  "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                                    That was the whole dynamic of the early seasons. Xander loves Buffy, but Buffy loves Angel. Yes, Xander's feelings were unreciprocated. That was the whole point.
                                    Sorry but I just view love triangles differently. It's never fully unreciprocated in my eyes. And I believe the promo pictures reflect that with them having photos of Buffy's hand not only resting on Angel but Xander as well. She didn't love Xander and she cared for and loved Angel more but it wasn't completely unreciprocated.

                                    But as I said earlier you're relying on things from the high school seasons to state why Buffy/Xander isn't viable in season eight. Their relationship has changed so much since then as have the characters around them that there's really no sense in doing that. And there's confirmation from writers that Buffy/Xander was meant to be kept in play as late as season five which I believe was shown in ?I Was Made to Love You' successfully, as well as it being their intention as Espenson states. So I think there's a serious flaw in your ?Restless' argument which still to me, means very little. Xander can think Buffy thinks about him as a brother but until she says it, that's all it is, Xander thinking it. He also dreamt Willow/Tara giving him a private make-out session but I don't see anybody claiming that as an accurate reflection of reality.

                                    Season Eight has Bandery vibes all over it which to me still means it has a good chance of happening. And as I've stated before I'm going by the shows general rule that whenever a guy starts getting shirtless around Buffy it usually means love interest which we got in 'NFFY.'

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                                    • #19
                                      Have you seen the Pretty in Pink promo pictures? There is as much 'shippy Andie/Duckie as Andie/Blane. And that was a genuinely unreciprocated relationship. It is possible to have love triangles where there is an unreciprocated third wheel who would do anything to get the girl. That's why you have the term "Duckie love". A term for that kind of love was even invented because of that movie.

                                      It's what Xander has. He'd do anything for Buffy, but Buffy doesn't have any romantic feelings for him and is always interested in something completely different than who he is. However, there is a segment of the audience that definitely wants Andie to be with Duckie (you should see all the bitching and moaning about the infamous end of that movie--it's half of its fame) and plenty in the BtVS fandom that think that Buffy should pick the guy who has always been there for her as a friend (Xander). But that's not who Andie/Buffy chose. 'Should pick' is different than 'want'. The love triangle doesn't have to always be reciprocated. And marketers don't just put the final couple in promo shots.
                                      Last edited by NileQT87; 03-03-09, 10:14 AM.

                                      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I have never seen 'Pretty in Pink' Niles so all references to that will be lost on me I'm afriad. Btvs is still an on-going series so I feel reluctant to draw on any other text to state Buffy will or will not choose this person because "couple/couple" didn't from "insert film" ect. It's unfinished piece of work, therefore forever evolving and changing.

                                        Regardless, with all due respect I'd like to bow out of the conversation for a while as we aren't going to change each other’s minds and are potentially scaring off other people from offering their opinions to the broader subject of the thread.

                                        I may pop back in later!

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