Dark Horse Omnibus Editions

[davidtobin100]

First post here so "hi!"

Just after buying all seven seasons of Buffy yesterday, along with the first two trades of season 8. Just finished watching the first season and it has brought back many happy memories. Looking forward to seeing season 3 onwards as I only saw the first two while they were on TV here in Ireland.

Anyway, my question is about the Dark Horse Omnibus Editions. I have purchased the first one as I read that it has what is considered by Whedon to be the canonical telling of the first movie and the set up to the series. I see that there are another four Omnibi. I remember buying other Dark Horse licenced comics at this time and remember that the quality can vary hugely from title to title. Has anyone else here read the stories contained in the other editions, and do you think that it warrants a purchase?

[Vampire in Rug]

David, the second omnibus is of equal quality if not better than the first one. Omnibus #2 has stories that range from pre-season one, right through to season three. It starts off with Buffy (and Angel) in Las Vegas whilst Giles is doing a Watcher test. The "pre-season one" stories are a continuation of the ones in the first omnibus. There's also a great story set in season two called "Ring of Fire".

If you liked the first Omnibus then the second one is definetly worth a purchase. You said that you noticed that the quality can vary hugely in Buffy comics. You're very right. The third and fourth Omnibus sucked ass. The fifth one might be okay, but for now the only ones I'd recomend would be #1 and #2.


If you do end up purchasing #2, let me know what you think. I totally enjoyed it. But the quality does decline from there.

Oh, and welcome to the fandom.

[davidtobin100]

Thanks for the welcome! Just after ordering the second Omnibus online as well. The thing that got me back into Buffy was picking up the Fray tpb a couple weeks back. I've read that she also appears in the Tales of the Slayers tpb in a short story. Is this trade and the Tales of the Vampire worth hunting down, or do you see it being re-issued soon enough in an Omnibus?

I was also wondering about the canonicity of these comics comtained in the Omnibi? Any pointers you could give me there?

Edit: Just read that both "Tales" tpbs are both canonical and are referenced in season 8 so I've just eBayed them.

[NileQT87]

the ones that are official are:
btvs season 8
ats season 6 (it's not just after the fall anymore and that term is starting to be used by writers)
fray
tales of the slayers (all) + the broken bottle of djinn
tales of the vampires (all)

it is more or less canon, but joss still has problems with it:
the origin

jossverse writers or actors wrote them:
ring of fire (petrie)
spike & dru: paint the town red (marsters)
double cross (petrie)
willow & tara: wanna blessed be (benson)
willow & tara: wilderness (benson)
haunted (espensen) + dark horse extra 39-41: haunted
reunion (espensen)

it is more or less canon (year 1), but not officially:
viva las buffy
dawn & hoopy, the bear
slayer, interrupted
angels we have seen on high
a stake to the heart

canonized retroactively in tales of the slayers:
false memories (yuki makimura is pictured among the canon slayers on the page with fray. the comic also includes dawn's false memories that include the master and angelus.)

spike: asylum is borderline canonical now because of betta george, beck and other characters from mosaic appearing in after the fall.

my opinion is that anything that doesn't screw up the shows' canon is up for consideration. stuff like lost and found + the death of buffy, spike vs. dracula and the year 1 stuff all fits perfectly.

[ThePoet's<3]

I've been ordereing the Omnibi (?) and I've liked them so far. Mostly they are just other Buffy/Scoobs/Vampire stories but they are entertaining.

I believe the Spike vs. Dracula is also considered slightly canon because of some of the references made to it during the Angel episode "Why We Fight".

[Vampire in Rug]

David, to recap what canon includes:

All seven TV seasons of Buffy (duh)
All five TV seasons of Angel
The Origin (which you've read in Omnibus #1)
Season 8 of Buffy
Angel: After the Fall (I havn't actually heard anyone refer to it as season 6 but it is canon)
Spike: Assylum
Spike: Shadow Puppets (Asylum and Shadow Puppets are both heavily refrenced in ATF)
Spike: After the Fall
Tales of the Vampires (won't be included in the Omnibus)
Tales of the Slayers (also won't be included in the Omnibus)
Fray (while it's the canon future at the moment, the current season 8 arc "TOYL" might change that)


Those are the ones that are "canon". The only ones that are technically non-canon, but might as well have happened are the other pre-season-one stories:

Viva Las Buffy
Dawn & Hoopy the Bear
Slayer Interrupted
Angels we Have Heard on High
A Stake to the Heart

These ones are all collected in the first two Omnibus and while nobody important has actually confirmed them as being canon, they were written when the show was ending and they don't really mess with established canon (too much). If you're getting the first two Omnibi you'll get these stories. They fill in an otherwise blanks space in the Buffy timeline so I see no reason why they can't be canon.

The same goes with all the other IDW Spike titles. They're great reads and they don't hurt the canon at all. But once again, they're technically non-canon because they havn't actually been confirmed as canon.

[NileQT87]

here's the reference to it as season 6: http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/cgi-b...23682;hl=angel

The comic "After the Fall" is season 6, like Buffy season 8 is being done.

after the fall is no longer the only miniseries... aftermath is going to have a whole bunch of parts as well. then there is also first night and spike: after the fall that all fit as pieces in the same timeline (spike: after the fall i don't consider to be a spin-off so much as another flashback that fills in the gaps--including the showing of angel's healing, which makes it not nearly so much a standalone).

each of these titles, imo, are more like chapters or arcs. all together they are more or less season 6 told out of order.

[Vampire in Rug]

After the Fall isn't a "season" like Buffy is. Season 8 is being written in a similar way that a season of TV might appear. ATF isn't. ATF is more like a "movie" than a "season". And while "Aftermath" will more than likely deal with things brought up in ATF, it's still going to be it's own thing. After the Fall is a story with a definite beginning, middle and end. It stands on it's own it's not "part one" of a sixth season.

[NileQT87]

it's much longer than a "movie". it was a miniseries when it was supposed to be 12 issues. after the fall is now up to 15-16 issues + spike: after the fall, first night and aftermath. aftermath is possibly going to be around 6 issues (as of now).

put together, that is 28-29 issues. that's almost 3/4 of season 8's "season". we don't even know if aftermath is the last chapter.

the only one that is completely being its own separate thing is john byrne's blood and trenches project.

in chronological order:

First Night (3) (less spoilerish as flashbacks in between A:AtF)
Spike: After the Fall (4)
Angel: After the Fall (15-16)
Angel: Aftermath (6)

it now has been described as a "season 6" by the new writer joining bryan lynch. it also includes most of joss whedon's own plans that were spilled for the televised season 6, had it happened. it IS the canonical season 6. the events that take place are mostly the same as what would have happened had it been televised (plus some of brian lynch's ideas). remember, joss was hardly the main writer of ats. greenwalt and minear probably had equal impact, if not more. the jossverse is the product of many writers, including brian lynch, and now, kelley armstrong.

while buffy is much more cut up into "arcs", do we doubt the validity of calling season 4 ats a season because episodes 7 through 22 happen almost consecutively in 4 weeks? season 6 reminds me much more of the later ats serial format than the buffy episodic serial format. the comics reflect the format of their shows.

while main cast members aren't in every issue, the chain wasn't scooby centric either. yet, is that part of season 8? it probably wouldn't exist if season 8 was done on television. season 6 ats is less linear, but neither series is the same format that it would be on television. and btvs never had that many "two-parter" arcs per season. both are totally different formats from a television series' "season". the television season 8 would have never had faith take over as the lead character for an arc, either.

the focus of no future for you changing from its lead character (buffy) to faith is the same as the focus of spike: after the fall being spike rather than angel. both buffy and angel appear in these "spin-offs", but barely. same with the chain, probably the upcoming oz arc and first night.

(also... for those of you that really need for something to be canon to enjoy it--the issue from btvs' original comic run, "false memories", is rather difficult not to see as canon now, being that the slayer that appeared in that issue, yuki makimura, was canonized in "tales of the slayers". you can see her on the fray page--she's the oriental one with the spiky black hair and really tall with huge armored shoulder pads. this also means that several pages of dawn's revised history memories are retroactively canonized. it also adds to the master's history, as he was the one who turned the slayer into a vampire.)

[davidtobin100]

Thanks for all the info guys. Nearing the end of season 2 of Buffy at the minute. Must try to get the five seasons of Angel next month. Is After the Fall as good as season 8 as I haven't heard quite as much about it? Also do I need to watch the seasons of Angel alongside the Buffy seasons? Not sure how much they tie into each other.

[Vampire in Rug]

Shoud you go to the trouble of watching Buffy and Angel alongside each other?

Here's a thread that discusses that. Read the thread. You'll hear many differing opinions on the correct way to watch Buffy and Angel.

IMO, if you're watching the shows on DVD I actually think you shouldn't try to watch one alongside the other. For starters the whole process will be slower. You won't recapture the excitement of actually watching the shows on TV. Yes it was cool seeing Spike follow the Oz to LA and seeing the plot spread across the two shows, but I very much doubt you can recapture that on DVD. It would be a real chore to watch everything chronologicly and IMO it wouldn't be worth it.

For the most part the shows stand on thier own and the crossovers are few and far between. If you're in the middle of an exciting Buffy arc, changing discs to watch the corresponding Angel episode will become a chore and I don't think that's how you should try to enjoy the shows. Sorry, I'm rambling. Just read the thread I linked to.


Is "After the Fall" as good as "season 8"? Well, that's a matter of opinion really. Some people will preffer AtF, others will preffer s8. I'm enjoying both. I actually think the writing on AfF is a lot tighter and it focuses a lot more on the core characters. On the other hand, s8 has consistantly better artwork. The artwork on AtF can range anywhere from awesome to downright crappy. If you enjoy "Angel: the series" I think you'll enjoy "After the Fall".




NileQT87, I think this is a discussion for another thread but "After the Fall" is not a season. For starters it's not called season six. It's called "After the Fall". When has a season ever had it's own title? Neither Joss nor Brian have refered to it as "season six". The only person of importance who has refered to it as that is Kelley Armstrong and with all due respect to her, I feel that she was simply mistaken. Besides, she said it on a forum post which is a pretty informal way of passing along information. "After the Fall" is it's own story and "First Night" is a part of that. "First Night" isn't it's own story or episode, it's a peice of the larger, overall story.

Likewise, "Spike: After the Fall" is it's own story. While it certainly reltates to A:ATF, the story itself stands on it's own in a way that say, season 8's "The Long Way Home" simply doesn't. Of course there are some differences when transitioning from television to comics and a season of comics is going to differ in some ways than a season of television. But season 8 can be broken into individual episodes much easier than ATF can be. I believe that each "arc" of Buffy season 8 is the equivelant of an episode. It's a part of something larger overall, but there's still something that distinguishes the arc as a smaller story. Whereas ATF has been much more focused on a single story. I'm sure someone else can word this much better than I can, but I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at.

[NileQT87]

where's the smaller arcs in season 4 ats, then? as i said, episodes 7 through 22 happen almost immediately one after the other for 4 weeks. a lot of season 3 is the same way (quickening, lullaby and dad happen in 2 days).

atf, imo, is very similar in terms of pacing as the show. there truly isn't any pacing issue that makes it different.

joss' season 6 plans ARE in atf (hell-A, gunn, fred/illyria, etc...).

season 8 has as many issues taken over by non-main characters (faith, the fake buffy and soon oz) as "season 6" does.

it was originally called "after the fall" because there were no plans (at that time) for it to expand into 28-29 issues with multiple "arcs". after the fall refers to the original plan to make a 12-issue maxiseries.

and spike: atf ISN'T self-contained. see: big, glowy angel. something that probably would be a wth moment to anybody not reading the rest of the season. it's basically a patchwork of a season revealed in increments. you see something happen and then they go back and explain how the characters got to that point, met those people (like spider), etc...

a little like showing all of evil-cordy's evil deed flashbacks after all the events took place mysteriously. or the why of all of the jasmine-influenced events going back possibly 5 seasons not being explained until mid-way through season 4. ats has never been afraid to be nonlinear.

and sorry davidtobin100 for sort of going into something else around you. enjoy the rest of btvs/ats!

[davidtobin100]

Thanks for the pointers - sorry about not spotting that thread.

[stormwreath]

For the record: 'omnibus' is Latin for "for everybody". The word doesn't change to make it plural. (Well, 'liber omnibus' would mean 'a book for everybody' and 'libres omnibus' would mean 'books for everybody')

If you're treating it as an English word, then form the plural using English rule: an omnibus, two omnibuses.


As for the original question: I've enjoyed all the omnibuses, but I'd agree that the first two are much better than the later ones. As for them being canon - unless Joss has said so explicitly, I'd treat all the comics as being 'plausible but not necessarily canonical'. Apocryphal, so to speak. Even if he has used elements of one comic in another, they only become canon if he decides that he's not allowed to contradict anything that was said in that comic.

[davidtobin100]

Stormwreath: You do grammar good!

I've been teaching Junior Infants (age 4) for too long!!!