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Buffy 8.17 "Time of Your Life, Part II" Spoiler Discussion Thread

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  • Buffy 8.17 "Time of Your Life, Part II" Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Drusilla? Drusill-nah. I never should have fallen for the "madwoman" misdirect, as the 8.19 cover really did make it kind of obvious. And as soon as it was clear she was speaking "human" and not "vampire", it was a sure thing.

    Wow, what an issue. Fray is every bit the great character she was in her own book. Harth is every bit as complex a villain. And WILLOW has been waiting around for centuries to prove a point.

    Firstly, I love how Buffy adjusts, or doesn't, to Melaka's world -- gains her trust, learns her language, and is even moved to sympathy by what Melaka's been through. But what I never thought about is how learning of Melaka's time would affect Buffy mentally. In "Chosen", we saw Buffy emerge from great pessimism and doubt with a moment of sudden certainty -- "we're gonna win". Now, in "Time of Your Life", her period of great optimism and victory as head of a world-wide army of Slayers that's changed the fate of the line of Chosen, of heroes, of the world, ends in another moment of sudden clarity -- "we're gonna lose", if you will. Fray laid it all down. Buffy's age was the end of the Slayer line until Melaka and Harth. The ties to the past were broken. Twilight came, and night fell.

    And all this settles in right before she hears Willow's name come from Gunther's lips.

    Willow, on the other hand... wow. She's felt off, distant, cold in the present-day story, and also a bit self-loathing. That continues as she makes clear that it's her fault that Buffy got sent to the future. That means more than even she can understand, since apparently FDW had something to do with orchestrating this. And yet, she acts like she's been waiting around 200+ years to prove a point to Buffy, not to kill her. She's here to judge her, not to kill her, to reverse a phrase. Whatever it is that happens to the Slayers and the world in the present is clearly something that Willow holds Buffy accountable for, and wants her to appreciate that... perhaps before killing her?

    In the meantime, the BHC is not a BPR apparently, and I'm actually glad because to wipe out the whole Scotland team right in front of Xander would have been too much. He is really, really stepping up and I love it. Love him snapping Rowena out of it and barking orders. That's twice now we've seen Rowena... pretty much fold in a sticky situation. I wonder if she's mostly there as a reminder of how many girls probably weren't ready to be Slayers. It even makes me wonder if the Slayer line on its own had a sort of intelligence underneath it, that it never activated someone that clearly didn't have the steele to succeed.

    A little puzzled by the nature of the attack on the BHC -- why have a small explosion that spawns freaky ghost-ish snake warrior things when, well, big explosion? Sharks with frickin' laser beams.

    I'm definitely thinking there's Xander/Dawn subtext officially a-brewin'. "Ride me". 'Nuff said. And I totally called that scene.
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  • #2
    No Drusilla? *Cries*

    But looking forward to reading it, anyway.


    -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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    • #3
      So no Dru? Colour me surprised...not.

      I thought it would be highly doubtful that she'd make an appearance like that. There was no sound motivation for he to seek to be there for a start.

      I'm quite happy that it's turned out to be Wilow, but I hope that Joss and co manage to walk a different path with her then the one they did in season 6.

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      • #4
        A few questions as i wont be getting this issue for ages.

        Is it Dark Willow?
        Why has Dark Willow been waiting for Buffy for 200 years?

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        • #5
          How was it revealed its Willow? This is going to be so interesting to see if Willow already knew some of this from Saga Vasuki, and thats why she ran away from her. Or if she doesn't know about it and its something that just is a natural evolution of what she goes through and current Willow has no idea about it. I suspect maybe current Willow knows she'll go a bit ''bad'' in the future, but maybe she just doesn't know quite how it all works out. Surely Saga Vasuki wouldn't have told her or else she'd know Willow would try to change it, right?

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          • #6
            Great, Dark Willow again. And the recycling of S6 continues.

            X/D shipping, for laughs or subtext? probably both since it escalates the alienation each would get from Buffy and Willow.

            Now they just have insert the proverbial wedge that will blow up and divide Dawn from Xander and Joss's by the numbers routine of, 'the Scoobies seperate, drift apart, get pissed and mad at each other. Severe angst ensures before a hollow reconciliation occurs just in time for the defeat of the Big bad', (Insert DEEP breath) will be online ready to roll out over the next few months.
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            • #7
              I thought it was a rather "ho-hum" issue. Like all of the other Part 2's, it piled on way more questions than answers. Dark Willow's reveal at the end was not surprising one bit -- possibly because of the release of the 18th issue. Yet despite that, you were able to see it coming since Willow (in the present) spewed yet another "The spell didn't go right. Thus everything is my fault" and #11 ("The end of magic") and #15 (Saga Vasuki) hinted that Willow was going down a not-so-pretty path. Apparently this path is 200 centuries long. I don't want to make anymore comments regarding the issue until the arc is completed -- it would be like judging an episode by watching its first two acts. So I'll talk about the pencilling...

              O, Jeanty, Jeanty, wherefore art thou Georges Jeanty? I'm sorry, but I am not digging Karl Moline's pencils at all! Quite frankly, each panel looks like a rough draft. I don't give pencillers' too much heat if the characters don't resemble the actors, but Moline's characters don't even look like Moline's characters! Thank goodness for the inking, because otherwise I would've been lost. And I'm not gonna mention how I thought Fray's sister was Buffy for the first read. Oh, shit, I just did. I wish Moline the best for the next two issues, but honestly, I'm not gonna be sad once he parts.

              Favourite scene: Xander's scene at the castle
              Favourite line: "Stop slaying me!"
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              • #8
                Originally posted by -beardo- View Post
                Is it Dark Willow?
                Yup. Wearing a maroon, ballroom gown.

                Why has Dark Willow been waiting for Buffy for 200 years?
                Dark Willow strategically orchestrated Fray to fight a demon on a roof, where in the present, Willow and Buffy would be situated. Dark Willow switched Buffy and the demon, making everyone but Dark Willow go "huhh?"

                Now why does Dark Willow want Buffy in the future? It's not entirely clear, but her cryptic line to Harth explains the general idea: "Vampires gain strength from one another. Slayers, ultimately, don't. What happens in your time will cause your time to come." So if everything goes according to Dark Willow's plans, the future that Buffy is situated in will in fact occur. I'm gonna go on a limb and says that's a bad.
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                • #9
                  And this could also be further evidence of who Twilight really is since most of the minor villians in a season tend to be reflections of who the ultimate big bad is.
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                  • #10
                    Well. The upcoming cover of Willow did give away that it was her, but I was still kinda clinging to it being Drusilla.

                    Still...I don't know. I can't quite get my head around Willow wanting to kill Buffy.

                    So here's my crazy theory--she's Dark Willow because how the hell else was she going to live for 200 years and not age, other than turning into a vampire? By using crazy dark magic. BUT--I don't think it's necessarily that she wants to kill her. Prove a point sounds more like the truth. She brought Buffy to the future because she knew that would already happen, because it had. So it must be some kind of turning point for Buffy here. What if Willow orchestrated all of this, survived 200 years on dark magic, to change things for the better somehow? To set right what otherwise would go horribly wrong, and rewrite the mistakes they'd made in the past while there was still a chance?

                    I'm going on that theory, personally.

                    And no Xander/Dawn! Xander/Buffy, wooo! ;D

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                    • #11
                      Interesting. Well, I've never been the greatest fan of DarkWillow, but from comments here and elsewhere, it seems she's not exactly the same as last time. But I'm sortof confused about why DarkWillow grabbed Buffy....obviously, she had to know that it would happen, right? Because she saw it herself some two hundred years ago. So....doesn't she already know the outcome of this experience? She's already seen what happens when Buffy goes back to the present; in her mind, this has already happened before. I'm not quite sure what she's trying to prevent, because really, she can't prevent anything. Right? Time travel makes my head hurt...I think I'll just wait a while to see what happens.

                      On the other hand, yay for Xander/Dawn!
                      The story's kinda bland. It's about this guy named Dumbledore Calrissian who needs to return the ring back to Mordor.

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                      • #12
                        I've just been looking at some of the parts that I can find online and I'm not sure she wants to kill her she probably just either wants to prove a point, or maybe set some stuff in motion. In the end the end result has to be the same because Fray is cannon so it can't change. They can make the journey to the end of magic however long and winding as they like, but in the end it does happen and thats not going to change.

                        On a side note, Orange polka dots with that dress? lol
                        Last edited by dinamo; 07-08-08, 02:04 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Weredog View Post
                          I thought it was a rather "ho-hum" issue. Like all of the other Part 2's, it piled on way more questions than answers. Dark Willow's reveal at the end was not surprising one bit -- possibly because of the release of the 18th issue. Yet despite that, you were able to see it coming since Willow (in the present) spewed yet another "The spell didn't go right. Thus everything is my fault" and #11 ("The end of magic") and #15 (Saga Vasuki) hinted that Willow was going down a not-so-pretty path. Apparently this path is 200 centuries long. I don't want to make anymore comments regarding the issue until the arc is completed -- it would be like judging an episode by watching its first two acts. So I'll talk about the pencilling...

                          O, Jeanty, Jeanty, wherefore art thou Georges Jeanty? I'm sorry, but I am not digging Karl Moline's pencils at all! Quite frankly, each panel looks like a rough draft. I don't give pencillers' too much heat if the characters don't resemble the actors, but Moline's characters don't even look like Moline's characters! Thank goodness for the inking, because otherwise I would've been lost. And I'm not gonna mention how I thought Fray's sister was Buffy for the first read. Oh, shit, I just did. I wish Moline the best for the next two issues, but honestly, I'm not gonna be sad once he parts.

                          Favourite scene: Xander's scene at the castle
                          Favourite line: "Stop slaying me!"

                          I don't know how you can dis Molines pencils. They look awesome! He does seem to have a little trouble with Willows face though. And if you read Fray, you would see that Erin looks the same in this issue as she always has. She looks like Buffy-big deal. I actually did think it was Buffy for a second too, but it was explained when Fray said sis. What's with the lot of complaints?

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                          • #14
                            erin looks like buffy a bit (same in the fray comic), but her face is longer/thinner and her nose is straight down/kind of aquiline (no square smg nose) like melaka's.

                            and yeah, back when i read fray, my first thought was erin was practically buffy in a vinyl body suit. but there are facial differences.

                            i haven't read the comic yet--just the preview pages for me.

                            "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                            "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                            • #15
                              Maybe Fray is canon but necessarily the set future. Maybe as a Hypertime setup where all futures are valid and possible. We've seen the series go to alternate timelines before in "The Wish", which are canon as in they exist and happened but aren't the main storyline. Could it be that JW has figured out that no matter how great Fray is, it's effectively hampering and hindering any efforts he makes to add on to the series?

                              If he wants this 'verse to be a lasting franchise a la Star Wars, Star Trek, etc..., he more or less has to undo what setup Fray without completely disolving the ties between it and the parent series.
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                              • #16
                                Oh I do hope they DON'T do that.

                                That Fray would be "one future" which could happen? And now Joss is going to write a "new future"? BOOOOOOO!

                                However - it does seem strange that if we have Fray - then we know the ending. And if this is the part which sets up the ending - well - do we really want however more issues of story of how they try not to end up at that point but it happens anyway? That seems pretty strange as well!

                                Of course - using your Star Trek analogy - he could just continue with "Fray - the Next Generation".

                                But it almost seems he will have to "rewrite" Fray, doesn't it? And offer it as a "possible" ending.

                                And I agree - Moline's stuff looks like it did in Fray. Erin has always looked liked Buffy. I always thought she would make good canon fodder.
                                -TP<3
                                "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
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                                • #17
                                  I like the idea of Fray turning from future into alternative-reality-future. Wibbley wobbley timey wimey! Hoping to get to buy this at lunch.


                                  -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                                  • #18
                                    Just got my hands on the issue and I really liked it. Traditionally I've pretty much concluded that the second issue of every arc is always the weakest, part two of 'The Long Way Home' 'No Future For You' and 'Wolves At The Gate' have all been my least favourite instalments of those arcs, so I was more or less prepared for it in 'Time of Your Life.' In saying that though I'd actually say that in my opinion this issue was the best out of all the second 'acts' with the second act of ?Wolves At the Gate' being my least favourite.

                                    There were a few surprises in this issue. The Dark Willow reveal almost seemed to be obvious given the release of the Issue #19 cover but I guess they were betting that the fandom would over analyse it, as we tend to do. A couple of weeks ago I was speculating that it was pretty strategic of Darkhorse to make it so obvious that a lot of people wouldn't guess correctly who it was. Why release the Issue #17 variant hiding the mysterious woman's face, release the preview of Issue #17 with the very Drusilla-like clues but then blow all of this by just showing the woman in the release of the issue #19 cover? I think they were betting on a lot of people thinking "hey if they wanted to hide it in the cover for Issue #17 they wouldn't give away that woman with the Willow cover" and thus, she was still a surprise reveal in this issue. It was also quite surprising that slayers did survive the missile at the BHC, and that the mojo we saw on the missile created the demon army. But I'll get to more of that in a minute, in particular Dark Willow.

                                    I really enjoyed Xander in his brief cameo this issue. I loved that he's capable of being the tough solider, we saw glimpses of it in ?The Long Way Home' when he ordered for the mystics all commandery, but his "soldiers die" comment was particularly ?pun free' and very direct. He knows how to delegate and get on with things, and I like that he somewhat mocked the idea of Rowena challenging his orders in a really inappropriate moment. You've got to have a commander and a solider and he's the more experienced. I also really liked the scene because we got more insight into Rowena. Throughout season seven I pretty much dreaded potential scenes because I thought they were poorly written, and for the most part, pretty unlike able characters except for a few exceptions. But I really love the new slayers and love any scenes we can get with them, it's nice seeing Rowena conversing without the other slayers around her.

                                    The future scenes were also quite good. It was nice to see Fray doing her thang before Buffy showed up and it was particularly cool how word of Willow was spreading. It was also nice that we got straight out an explanation for how the whole thing was orchestrated with the Buffy/demon switcheroo. Buffy and Fray's interaction was actually really nice, it produced some really fun lines, "stop slaying me!" and I loved how Buffy is far more level headed now than she was back when she was confronted by Kendra for the first time. Far less aggressive in her approach. I also really enjoyed the tender moment between them when Buffy offered her condolences for what happened to Harth, it was really nice. I thought they'd take a different approach with these two and keep it all very snarky but they surprised me and it's quite a nice surprise given the abundance of snark we get from Buffy/Faith's interaction. I also enjoyed the panel of Buffy sitting down and letting the reality of everything sink in. I thought it was quite well done. She didn't really have as strong of an emotion as I would have liked when learning the fate of the slayer line and I was kind of disappointed with it, but they'd worked it so the reality didn't really hit Buffy until later and that's pretty nifty and a pleasant surprise. Plus further confirmation from Buffy that they're "going in blind" with the whole military/slayer/organisation gig.

                                    Dark Willow/Harth was probably my favourite bits of this issue, and boy do I love the reveal panel of Dark Willow I thought it was brilliantly illustrated and incredibly creepy, and well.. Sad. This is how Willow ends up? And she isn't all evil with the "mwah ha ha!" which is good, but looks really sombre and sad, and that's kind of upsetting for someone who's a big fan of her character to see her end up in this state. No idea how she's managed to survive this long but I think the years have really taken their toll on her, hence the looniness in her cryptic messages. I loved how Harth remembered her from his slayer dreams, his insight into how Buffy felt when she fought Willow back in season six was very well written. You also get a sense that whilst it appears Willow and Buffy will come to heads in the future, she still seems to have respect for Buffy and her accomplishments. I loved her "there's nothing a slayer can't overcome" I thought that was pretty telling of how she viewed Buffy and a slayers worth. And I actually took her comments about two slayers making each other weaker rather than stronger as a throw away comment to what Buffy/Faith do to each other when around one another. They never got a long, they brought out sometimes the worst in both of them. And Willow does look really sad about everything that is going on, and perhaps what she's gearing up to do with present day Buffy.

                                    Overall a really good issue me thinks. And in the letter column did Allie finally put to rest all the speculation that Willow may really be Twilight.. even when you knows he's a white male? No point in wearing a mask if you've done mojo to appear like a man, that's your mask you don't need a copper one on top of that!

                                    I'll post more on the issue, I've got loads of things I want to discuss but my post is getting pretty long so I shall zip it for now

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                                    • #19
                                      Just read the issue. Thought it was good, but I've always liked the second issue of the arc less than all the first, third and fourth.

                                      Anyway, fave scenes are the ones with Xander/Dawn and Buffy/Fray. "I can't believe I don't have a pun", LOL! And that awkward moment between Xander and Dawn is so funny. Buffy mourning the English language was also funny.

                                      Still need more explanation to the Dark!Willow bit.
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                                      Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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                                      • #20
                                        Okay, so I got this today and was kind of surprised that it was Dark Willow, at the same time, I wasn't, I mean it's just like them to throw us off the scent like that and in fairness Willow's clothes could be somewhat similar to Dru's if they were black.

                                        I accidentally spoiled myself, the comic book opened right at the back page when I was holding it, but a decent issue. I'm not a lover of the second part because it lacks what the first part has of introducing the new things, characters etc and what the third and fourth parts have, with the 3rd having the climax and a good cliffhanger and then being concluded in the fourth, so yeah.

                                        But, it was decent, I loved the castle part, especially the Dawn/Xander bit, but wish it was Buffy/Xander instead, that and the Fray/Buffy parts because of their speech together about the English language being abused and Buffy's sympathy when told Fray's story and realising that there is no more Slayer army.

                                        Having seen the final issue's cover I think it was obviously going to be Willow who was in the future, but now there are so many questions about why she's there? The only thing I can come up with is to do with Buffy ending magicks in the near-future. (In fairness the woman on the alternate cover still looks kind of like Amy or even Dru.) It was also obviously Willow in the first panel we see her lips, they look Willow-ish and there's a shot of the top of her head which is red-ish. Although, plum (or whatever that dress' colour is) isn't Willow's colour, dark or otherwise.

                                        On a sidenote, in the letters at the back of the comic book Scott Allie doesn't reply to the person who asks about seeing the Rome!Buffy, might be he just ran out of space and he informs us that the Dark!Willow future look was to throw us off the scent and make us think it was Dru after all. Also the last paragraph is quite interesting, is it a bluff? Or is he just talking?

                                        "Hopefully right now a bunch of you are composing emails in your head to write in about Willow's surprise (I hope) appearance in the future, and what it means in the context of Twilight - go back and check; nope, it appears to be a guy behind the copper mask - and the end of the Slayers."

                                        'Cause I've had a thought in my head that it could be Willow for some time now, how do we know it's a man?

                                        (The excerpt of the book at the very end of the comic book seems quite interesting, I migth have to buy it.)
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