Disappointed With Xander in #16

[Sosa lola]

I've seen so many reviews about fans being disappointed with Xander's "lack of grief toward Renee" in #16. It had made me go, "Hello! Have you not met Xander before?" Mr. I-Hide-Pain-Behind-Jokes? It's even funny because some of the complainers are those who complain about the characters being OCC in S8.

Then I read Tallgent's review on the issue and I enjoyed what she said here about Xander:

"In a nice call-back to Empty Places, Xander is once again nursing a devastating wound. Buffy and Willow are with him again. But this time Buffy is there emotionally as well as she and Willow struggle to dance on egg shells while Xander is as stoic as ever determined not to let his pain show. But there's also a hard-won acceptance. Time and life goes on. You have to move forward.

So when we see Xander to get over his grief by reaching out to his friends, whether cheering up Dawn with her centaur situation or seeing off Buffy and Willow on their little jaunt to the Big Apple, we're conditioned to applaud him because we have been taught through our postmodern culture that people come first. Friends. Family. When you have to choose between serving your king or helping your friend, friendship should come first. If you're very lucky, or in an Arthurian tale, sometimes you can do both.

All very idealistic. Very human. What human beings should strive for. That simple connection. Institutions as powerful as they may be are still only made up of people.

But in the world of Time of Your Life this is turned on its head. Xander is there for his friends at the cost of losing his Slayer army under his charge. This is the world the Scoobies have navigate in now. Where we fell for Xander and his pain. But remorse means jack shit where above all else you must protect the institution. You must protect the system. Everything else--friends, family, are expendable.

Xander doesn't catch any breaks here. This world doesn't allow for breaks."

[Koos]

I've got no problem with the amount of mourning he did. He'd done already an intensive amound of mourning in issue 15. He's dealt with in a proper way with the whole private ceremony he did. He didn't know for a very long time, he didn't even know her that well either. He's in love with her, and that pain has been properly dealt with.

[vampmogs]

I also liked how he was dealing with it as well. And I don't think it's the last we've heard about it anyway. Given what's just happened to the castle, and the look of Xander's face as he lies helpless in the grass; I'm guessing it's going to open some old wounds in one major way.

[Skippcomet]

I've seen so many reviews about fans being disappointed with Xander's "lack of grief toward Renee" in #16.

Where are these fans that are "disappointed" about how Xander's handling his grief? I've seen several reviews of the issue, but I haven't seen anybody thus far express any disappointment about Xander in that regard. I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm just asking where I can find these reviews. What were they expecting from Xander, I wonder?

[vampmogs]

Where are these fans that are "disappointed" about how Xander's handling his grief? I've seen several reviews of the issue, but I haven't seen anybody thus far express any disappointment about Xander in that regard. I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm just asking where I can find these reviews. What were they expecting from Xander, I wonder?

My best bet, LJ. The majority seem negative about the entire thing, I think you're bound to find something there. I've also seen one member on dark horse say something similar to what Sosa's posted, but they've admitted that Xander annoys them and that he's expendable to the series so I've come to the conclusion it's about their own personal reservations that giving the story an objective view.

[Sosa lola]

Where are these fans that are "disappointed" about how Xander's handling his grief? I've seen several reviews of the issue, but I haven't seen anybody thus far express any disappointment about Xander in that regard. I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm just asking where I can find these reviews. What were they expecting from Xander, I wonder?

I've read it quite a number of times, but I don't recall where. I'm a member in many forums and I've read many reviews by fans and many had admitted that they hated how Xander was over Renee's death so fast. Maybe it's in LJ, or another forum, but it did annoy that not only one fan complained, but several.

[Nina]

I'm curious what those people expect, BtVS and Ats were never very good with grieving characters. Do they want to use 30% of the comicspace for a crying Xander ... or should he brood? I think that we saw more of Xander grieving than of Angel grieving after Cordy's death. And every second Xander spends grieving, is a second more than he grieved about Jesse. I think that they did very well with the limited space and the lack of real actors, to show that Xander is grieving.

[KingofCretins]

I wasn't disappointed at all... a more nuanced handling would have required that A) Nick be there to show the emotion, or B) it be a book about Xander, and the panel space be devoted to it.

That said... we're still getting a lot. I was pleased that he was capable of getting back to business. Determined to do so, even.

The real test is going to be how he handles this next, greater catastrophe -- his team, 100+ Slayers and who knows how many other personnel (the mystics and so on) have probably all been killed right in front of him. And he and Dawn have to take care of each other while, at least for the moment, out of contact with the rest of the group. There are a lot of different directions Joss can take him emotionally after this. I'm betting on more of a Malcom Reynolds/Season 4 Wesley place.

[watcher1006]

It never occurred to me that Xander was grieving too little.

Having seen other people deal with loss, although so far (thankfully) having myself been spared such a major loss as Xander suffered I realize that making oneself busy is a defensive mechanism that people use to help get past such times. And Xander has plenty of things to occupy him.

[sueworld]

I wasn't disappointed with him grieving over Renee, because quite frankly I don't really care much about her character. To me at least she was very thinly drawn and so very difficult to really care about much.

I'm still more concerned that Xander has barely mentioned anything to do with poor old Anya, and that Joss idea of grieving for someone you love (ie send them to Dracula's for a year to get over it) *g* doesn't really cut it for me I'm afraid.

[Vampire in Rug]

Xander's so badass that he doesn't need to greive. He decapitates vampires instead. He's just that awesome.


Kidding aside, we saw him greive Renee's death when he colapsed into tears at Buffy's feet in Tokyo, he held a private funeral and she got a mention in TOYL. That's plenty of realistic greiving for me, considering how he didn't really know her that well, and also we only get 22 pages of story a month. Those who think Xander is greiving too little; I wonder how many panels they want of Xander being upset. How many pages/issues do people want of Emo!Xander before they are satisfied?


And as far as Anya's death goes, it's been a year and a half. Hopefully she'll get a proper mention but I think we can asume that Xander is dealing with her death okay.


I agree with those who are irked that he never greived Jesse.

[Sosa lola]

I wasn't disappointed with him grieving over Renee, because quite frankly I don't really care much about her character. To me at least she was very thinly drawn and so very difficult to really care about much.

I'm still more concerned that Xander has barely mentioned anything to do with poor old Anya, and that Joss idea of grieving for someone you love (ie send them to Dracula's for a year to get over it) *g* doesn't really cut it for me I'm afraid.

Xander went to Dracula of all people to grieve for Anya. That's way more crazy than his reaction to Renee's death. Plus it's a year and a half after Chosen. The characters always moved on quickly because of the way their lives are.

[sueworld]

And as far as Anya's death goes, it's been a year and a half. Hopefully she'll get a proper mention but I think we can asume that Xander is dealing with her death okay.

Personally thats the problem that I have with this comic. I feel that too many important areas of characters emotional back grounds have been left for us to figure out how/what they did. Too many blanks for me personally. But then I don't believe Joss is invested enough anymore in the old 'core' show to want to dwell on that much which I believe to be a big mistake. He just can't expect folks to forget what happened in the TV series. For some of us it ain't gonna happen I'm afraid, however much he hopes we'll do so.

[Sosa lola]

Personally thats the problem that I have with this comic. I feel that too many important areas of characters emotional back grounds have been left for us to figure out how/what they did. Too many blanks for me personally. But then I don't believe Joss is invested enough anymore in the old 'core' show to want to dwell on that much which I believe to be a big mistake. He just can't expect folks to forget what happened in the TV series. For some of us it ain't gonna happen I'm afraid, however much he hopes we'll do so.

I agree that the season should have started three months after S7. It would have been nice to see what happened with the characters, but I guess since they needed Willow away for a year, and S8 has this bigger arc. It's probably more believable that the Scoobies experienced a year and a half without any big bad showing up.

Maybe a flashback issue that shows us how the Scoobies dealt with the aftermath of Chosen?

I think it'll be unbelievable if Buffy and Xander still grieved their lost ones after a year and a half: in mid S5 Buffy never seemed to think about Angel, which is a year and a half from S3.

[sueworld]

I think it'll be unbelievable if Buffy and Xander still grieved their lost ones after a year and a half: in mid S5 Buffy never seemed to think about Angel, which is a year and a half from S3.

Thing is this is a comic, and in which it's always going to be harder to protray real emotion as well as when using real actors.

To be honest I think Joss was looking for the easy way out when kick starting all this off. He was probaly hoping that If he set it up long enough after the events of Chosen that he could get away with not addressing any messy loose ends that involved the characters. Thus making it easier for the comic audience to accept this version of the show.

Trouble is some of us have very long memories....

[vampmogs]

I don't believe Joss intends for us to "forget" the televised seasons at all. The whole idea behind that just frankly doesn't make sense to me. He's using the same characters if he didn't want to expand on the show he wouldn't have done season 8. The whole season is dealing with the repercussions of season seven in particular and the slayer spell. 'Anywhere But Here' an issue he wrote, dealt with Willow's inadvertent resentment towards Buffy over what happened to Tara in season six, another Joss written 'episode' 'A Beautiful Sunset' opened with the exact same image of the baseball girl scene in season seven. 'No Future For You' had Faith come full circle with her actions of season three, even using flashbacks of the Mayor, the Buffy/Faith Graduation Day fight to highlight certain points.

He's continuously calling back to previous seasons, just like the show did every other season. How does he want us to forget when he's making an effort to remind us?

Personally I think a great advantage of setting the season sometime after 'Chosen' is that we don't have to deal with all the nitty gritty of Buffy finding somewhere to live, organising who's going to go where, getting the castle ect ect. That'd all be quite boring for me actually, he's highlighted and shown us the things we need to know, like Buffy's bad choice to steal money, if we started directly after 'Chosen' we'd have to see all the kind of stuff we really don't need to know, ie, travelling to Scotland ect. The other seasons had the luxary of us really not having to ask to many questions in the 3 months between them. We didn't need to see Xander working between season five and six, we just assume he did. That kinda boring stuff would be unavoidable if we'd picked up directly after 'Chosen.'

[sueworld]

I don't believe Joss intends for us to "forget" the televised seasons at all. The whole idea behind that just frankly doesn't make sense to me. He's using the same characters if he didn't want to expand on the show he wouldn't have done season 8.

But are they? To me some characters are behaving very 'off kilter' indeed, but maybe Joss is doing that for a lead in to section of the plot. If he doesn't then I'm not sure what he thinks he's playing at to be frank.

We didn't need to see Xander working between season five and six, we just assume he did. That kinda boring stuff would be unavoidable if we'd picked up directly after 'Chosen.'

In a well written fiction a reader shouldn't be left to 'assume' too much. If they do it's just lazy writing on behalf of the author I'm afraid. Same goes for explaining any back plot. You can explain what happened and how characters got to where they are now without it sounding like an info dump. Many others writers have managed that in the past, why not Joss?

To know how characters reached certain key decisions in their lives is important to how a reader views the subject mater and whether or not they can readily accept it. To leaves gaps in some areas is still whats wrong with this series, and for reasons left best only to himself he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to enlighten us neither.

[watcher1006]

At first I was very annoyed at some things in the comics because I saw them as breaks in continuity from the series. Over time I've come around to enjoying the comics more if I don't try to see them too strictly as a continuation of the Buffyverse from Season 7.

If instead of skipping lightly over some of the storylines from the TV show I suspect that if the comics tried to delve into some of them too extensively they might annoy me more. Sometimes with great writing it's just better to know when to stop.

[blue_peroxide]

This conversation brought this piece of writing, Conversations From the Writer’s Room, to my mind:

I
Joss, I can’t tell you how great this is! We all went back and re-watched all of the episodes to prepare for this and- oh. You only watched through season 3? ok… Brilliant move to toss out that whole Immortal idea, Joss. We’ll take a moment and touch on Buffy and Xander mourning- oh. Ok, we’ll wait on that. So we’ll have Willow and Giles- alright… And Dawn- how big? And why? Oh, ok more waiting. Then maybe we’ll introduce the new big bad- Amy? I guess that could be interesting. She may have figured out a way to survive…

II
Ok so Xander’s a watcher and Giles isn’t? Oh ok. Well where are we putting Giles now? Well we can make that vague… Now this would be a good time for Buffy to talk about missing Sp- alright. Xander and Buffy? Oh dream. Right. So a sleeping beauty spell on Buffy from Amy. Good. True love, huh? Ok that could be interesting! We could get An- ok or Sp-, no I see what you mean. Maybe Willow? Yeah good point. Xander would seem a bit predictable but. Oh ok, we wait. Good idea, lets make ‘em hurt for it. Great.

III
The fans are pretty worked up about this mystery guy, it’ll be- Ethan? Oh, ok. Well the fight between Willow and Amy is incredible! We should have a talk with wardrobe though, they’ve got Willow attending a renaissance festival. Uh Joss? You do realize that there were four seasons after high school. Why are Buffy’s memories all from then? We snuck in Amy’s mom, but do you really think Spike wouldn’t be- Well if you watch season 7 you’ll- yes Caleb is there. Fine. Great Andrew! And this little romance for Xander is nice, but wouldn’t he mention An- ok.

IV
Joss, you really need to re-watch season 7. We all know you were a tad busy with that other project so maybe some things are not as fresh but really, Warren had to have died. Really. He can come back, no problem. Good. Now about Dawn… It’s been cute but- ok. So, Willow sure has developed her healing powers! Do we want to expl- fine. Our big reveal of who woke Buffy up is- Satsu? Really? Well the thing is no one knows her. There’s been quite some build up and this is not exactly a meaningful payoff for- (sigh)

V
Ok! Stand alone! We’ll take a little time and check in with Buf- ok. So we get to know this “underground Buffy” oh? Dead? Ok but this is starting to feel like the Satsu fiasco… So this commercial bit is great! Andrew sure is fun to have around! Maybe we should check in on- ok not yet. They are rounding up slayers? Can we get a little into how this works? Ok no, focus on the girl. And the faries? You know the fans are gonna have a proble- well sure. I guess it’s not all that different from demons.

I'd say, I really enjoyed reading this.

[gryffonswings]

Xander went to Dracula of all people to grieve for Anya. That's way more crazy than his reaction to Renee's death. Plus it's a year and a half after Chosen. The characters always moved on quickly because of the way their lives are.

Xander basically told Dracula to get over himself because of Renee's death. In a way, I thought that was a sign of pretty profound grieving, if he was willing to take it when he visited after Anya died and when he took Renee.

In all, I wasn't disappointed in his grieving process. Because I honestly don't want to see pages and pages (upon pages) of him moping. The comic does not cover all aspects of their lives. I'm willing to accept that he is a fairly private person and does his mourning when no one else can see him. Including the readers. It also makes sense that maybe he is working to keep from thinking about it at all. That would seem like a typical Xander reaction.