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  • And I?m gonna blush. And then I?m gonna smile

    Another Review on Buffy/Satsu

    http://ninesisters.wordpress.com/200...uction-manual/

    Oh, you didn't think I'd get into comix mode and not talk about today's issue of Season Eight, did you? Hell, the bloody New York Times talked about today's issue, and I am about twelve million times more qualified than them to write about Buffy. Particularly this issue, because not only does being a fangirl give me street cred, I'm about to do something I only save for the most relevant and important of times: I'm busting out the Membership Card. Oh snap. If you know me, you know this just got real. If you don't know me, this just got real.

    For serious, guys, if you have any interest in reading this series at all, or if you haven't got this far yet, stay the hell away from this post.

    SPOILERS!

    Let's just get to the chase: throughout the various story-arcs of the Season Eight comics, Satsu, one of the several thousand Slayers that Buffy called into service via Willow's beaucoup-du-mojo as the climax of the TV series finale, falls for the title character in question. Buffy learns of this, is flattered, and in the previous issue, she and the junior grade Slayer have a heart-to-heart about the fact that she just doesn't swing that way.

    AND THEN. I stop by Amazing Fantasy after work, chat with my friendly neighborhood geeks, go home, sit down in the comfy chair, put up my feet, get into the story, turn a page, and promptly scare Meg, who thought my "AAAAAA WHAT THE ****?!" was actually indication that something was wrong in the real world. Here's why:

    [Picture of Buffy and Satsu naked in bed]

    Ok, so I've sputtered, I've stared, I've rambled, I skimmed through the explosion on Whedonesque and I've pondered long and hard about this. Here's my two cents.

    At first glance, I was ready to scream "FAN SERVICE!" and punch somebody at Dark Horse in the face. One of my hugest pet peeves is the misogynistic tendency modern media has to show two women kissing in order to boost ratings. It's insulting and demeaning, and I am so sick of it. Did they really think they could pull this? I'd expect this kind of bullshit from DC, but from the Buffyverse? To put this in the proper context, we are talking about the series that had a HUGE influence on the pop-culture view of same-sex relationships in its heyday. Who among us didn't see Willow and Tara and think, "Oh my god, they're lovely and all their friends love them and they're like me"? Sexuality in Sunnydale, regardless of what flavor it may be, has virtually never been about ratings (although it certainly didn't hurt), and was always done with sensitivity and intelligence. How could the comics, which are every bit a pure and good extension of the television series, stray from that noble path? My next thought was that this wasn't something my heroine would do. I mean, come on, as an expert on the topic, I can tell you right now that Buffy is the straightest girl in the history of straight girls. If nothing else, it's the only thing in the world that can account for Riley.

    But then I actually read the panels. The dialogue was so in character that I could practically hear Sarah Michelle Gellar dubbing over it. It was smart, it was funny, and it was anything but clichéd. I read it again, showed it to Meg, and read it again. It was sweet. It was sad. It was touching, and it worked.

    I'll say it again. It does work, and here's why.

    Let's start by looking at the woman herself. Buffy's character development is one of the best examples of the spirit of the Hero's Journey (an explanation of my view on this requires you to have a good deal of time, patience, and coin with which to buy drinks). She is a flawed character, as every true hero should be, and it makes her eventual rise to the by-proxy position of Slayer General all the more epic. She may be a damned cunning strategist on the battlefield, but in her personal life, she's rather a noob at times, particularly in the bedroom. She has never had a good healthy romantic attachment (as blindingly sexy as she and Spike were, healthy and good that was not). That doesn't mean she's a glutton for punishment. She just always tries something new, tries to grow and change. Look at the men she's been with. They've all been as different as night and day, and rightly so. Once Buffy breaks away from a pattern, she never goes back to it. She's a fighter; she learns from her mistakes.

    Now, going from this, let's look at where she is in the comics right now. She's risen so high that she doesn't have a moment to let go (her talk with Xander about this in last month's issue killed me). She has become The Slayer, and she has no time to be Buffy anymore. Xander's off leading Mission Control, Willow comes and goes as her goddess self chooses (which I love, by the by), and Giles, the father figure in Buffy's life, is estranged from her for reasons that aren't clear. She's got two thousand Slayers at her command, and she is utterly alone.

    So in enters Satsu - somebody outside the inner circle, somebody who hasn't known her since high school, somebody she's had fighting at her side, somebody she trusts and whose company she enjoys. All of a sudden, this new friend expresses interest in pursuing something more. It's not her cup of tea, but then again, the attention is welcome, and god knows she could use a bit of comforting companionship amidst the never-ending war zone that is the life of a Slayer. I don't care which team you play for, I can see that as a mindset most people can at least wrap their brain around, if not imagine themselves in.

    The thing that clinched this for me is the pillow talk scene the reader enters on. A relationship with Satsu would've been highly suspect to me, and an "Oh my god, this was such a mistake" scene would've felt ugly. This was just right - two people who shared a beautiful moment together, and are completely content to leave it at that. Satsu doesn't expect anything more, Buffy is glad of the time they spent together. There is in each of them respect, fondness, and appreciation for the other, which sometimes is every bit as touching as romance. It's stuff like that that makes it a story, and not a cheap tactic to sell more issues (take notes, DC).

    HOWEVER. I must say that while I am glad that Buffy had a nice night for once, my heart bleeds for Satsu. My fellow similarly-persuaded ladies out there know that there is not one among us that didn't go through the painful Straight Girl Rite of Passage. You fall for a straight girl, you become friends, you finally are honest with her, she decides to give it a try, she thanks you for the trouble and goes back to the boys, you smile and wish her well while your heart quietly breaks. I feel this is the part of Satsu's story we will never see. Then again, though we do not know her as well as the characters from the show, she seems like a mature girl with a good head on her shoulders. The mutual respect and understanding suggests to me that this is a lovely experience that both of them will remember very fondly, and I'm sure Satsu will take her part in it with a note of pride. Oh, she's going to pine something fierce and have many a wistful night in an empty bed, but she'll be just fine. Poor thing.

    It's stories like this that make this comic series so great. In a flimsy little monthly, I went through a bevy of emotions and ponderings that have lasted the whole night. Joss Whedon, bastard that he is, is a truly great storyteller, and having Buffy veteran Drew Goddard at the writer's desk for this one made it come through triumphantly. I love these characters, I love the whole story, and I loved (yes, I loved) this little piece of it.

    Read this comic.

    (On a side note, if you're interested in the article from the New York Times, here ya go. There's a fine interview with the man himself that further solidifies for me that this issue really works, but I found the writing of the article unsatisfactory. Referring to Spike as just "another vampire" in regards to his relationship with Buffy is like saying the Titanic was "a sunken boat". The following comment made me cry noob: "Buffy sleeps with a fellow slayer. And, oh yeah, she's a woman." Bwuh?! ALL Slayers are women, you buffoon, that's a crucial part of the mythos. Christ on a crutch, with all the fans out there, couldn't they have found somebody better to write this thing?)
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sosa lola View Post
    Another Review on Buffy/Satsu

    http://ninesisters.wordpress.com/200...uction-manual/

    Oh, you didn't think I'd get into comix mode and not talk about today's issue of Season Eight, did you? Hell, the bloody New York Times talked about today's issue, and I am about twelve million times more qualified than them to write about Buffy. Particularly this issue, because not only does being a fangirl give me street cred, I'm about to do something I only save for the most relevant and important of times: I'm busting out the Membership Card. Oh snap. If you know me, you know this just got real. If you don't know me, this just got real.

    For serious, guys, if you have any interest in reading this series at all, or if you haven't got this far yet, stay the hell away from this post.

    SPOILERS!

    Let's just get to the chase: throughout the various story-arcs of the Season Eight comics, Satsu, one of the several thousand Slayers that Buffy called into service via Willow's beaucoup-du-mojo as the climax of the TV series finale, falls for the title character in question. Buffy learns of this, is flattered, and in the previous issue, she and the junior grade Slayer have a heart-to-heart about the fact that she just doesn't swing that way.

    AND THEN. I stop by Amazing Fantasy after work, chat with my friendly neighborhood geeks, go home, sit down in the comfy chair, put up my feet, get into the story, turn a page, and promptly scare Meg, who thought my "AAAAAA WHAT THE ****?!" was actually indication that something was wrong in the real world. Here's why:

    [Picture of Buffy and Satsu naked in bed]

    Ok, so I've sputtered, I've stared, I've rambled, I skimmed through the explosion on Whedonesque and I've pondered long and hard about this. Here's my two cents.

    At first glance, I was ready to scream "FAN SERVICE!" and punch somebody at Dark Horse in the face. One of my hugest pet peeves is the misogynistic tendency modern media has to show two women kissing in order to boost ratings. It's insulting and demeaning, and I am so sick of it. Did they really think they could pull this? I'd expect this kind of bullshit from DC, but from the Buffyverse? To put this in the proper context, we are talking about the series that had a HUGE influence on the pop-culture view of same-sex relationships in its heyday. Who among us didn't see Willow and Tara and think, "Oh my god, they're lovely and all their friends love them and they're like me"? Sexuality in Sunnydale, regardless of what flavor it may be, has virtually never been about ratings (although it certainly didn't hurt), and was always done with sensitivity and intelligence. How could the comics, which are every bit a pure and good extension of the television series, stray from that noble path? My next thought was that this wasn't something my heroine would do. I mean, come on, as an expert on the topic, I can tell you right now that Buffy is the straightest girl in the history of straight girls. If nothing else, it's the only thing in the world that can account for Riley.

    But then I actually read the panels. The dialogue was so in character that I could practically hear Sarah Michelle Gellar dubbing over it. It was smart, it was funny, and it was anything but clichéd. I read it again, showed it to Meg, and read it again. It was sweet. It was sad. It was touching, and it worked.

    I'll say it again. It does work, and here's why.

    Let's start by looking at the woman herself. Buffy's character development is one of the best examples of the spirit of the Hero's Journey (an explanation of my view on this requires you to have a good deal of time, patience, and coin with which to buy drinks). She is a flawed character, as every true hero should be, and it makes her eventual rise to the by-proxy position of Slayer General all the more epic. She may be a damned cunning strategist on the battlefield, but in her personal life, she's rather a noob at times, particularly in the bedroom. She has never had a good healthy romantic attachment (as blindingly sexy as she and Spike were, healthy and good that was not). That doesn't mean she's a glutton for punishment. She just always tries something new, tries to grow and change. Look at the men she's been with. They've all been as different as night and day, and rightly so. Once Buffy breaks away from a pattern, she never goes back to it. She's a fighter; she learns from her mistakes.

    Now, going from this, let's look at where she is in the comics right now. She's risen so high that she doesn't have a moment to let go (her talk with Xander about this in last month's issue killed me). She has become The Slayer, and she has no time to be Buffy anymore. Xander's off leading Mission Control, Willow comes and goes as her goddess self chooses (which I love, by the by), and Giles, the father figure in Buffy's life, is estranged from her for reasons that aren't clear. She's got two thousand Slayers at her command, and she is utterly alone.

    So in enters Satsu - somebody outside the inner circle, somebody who hasn't known her since high school, somebody she's had fighting at her side, somebody she trusts and whose company she enjoys. All of a sudden, this new friend expresses interest in pursuing something more. It's not her cup of tea, but then again, the attention is welcome, and god knows she could use a bit of comforting companionship amidst the never-ending war zone that is the life of a Slayer. I don't care which team you play for, I can see that as a mindset most people can at least wrap their brain around, if not imagine themselves in.

    The thing that clinched this for me is the pillow talk scene the reader enters on. A relationship with Satsu would've been highly suspect to me, and an "Oh my god, this was such a mistake" scene would've felt ugly. This was just right - two people who shared a beautiful moment together, and are completely content to leave it at that. Satsu doesn't expect anything more, Buffy is glad of the time they spent together. There is in each of them respect, fondness, and appreciation for the other, which sometimes is every bit as touching as romance. It's stuff like that that makes it a story, and not a cheap tactic to sell more issues (take notes, DC).

    HOWEVER. I must say that while I am glad that Buffy had a nice night for once, my heart bleeds for Satsu. My fellow similarly-persuaded ladies out there know that there is not one among us that didn't go through the painful Straight Girl Rite of Passage. You fall for a straight girl, you become friends, you finally are honest with her, she decides to give it a try, she thanks you for the trouble and goes back to the boys, you smile and wish her well while your heart quietly breaks. I feel this is the part of Satsu's story we will never see. Then again, though we do not know her as well as the characters from the show, she seems like a mature girl with a good head on her shoulders. The mutual respect and understanding suggests to me that this is a lovely experience that both of them will remember very fondly, and I'm sure Satsu will take her part in it with a note of pride. Oh, she's going to pine something fierce and have many a wistful night in an empty bed, but she'll be just fine. Poor thing.

    It's stories like this that make this comic series so great. In a flimsy little monthly, I went through a bevy of emotions and ponderings that have lasted the whole night. Joss Whedon, bastard that he is, is a truly great storyteller, and having Buffy veteran Drew Goddard at the writer's desk for this one made it come through triumphantly. I love these characters, I love the whole story, and I loved (yes, I loved) this little piece of it.

    Read this comic.

    (On a side note, if you're interested in the article from the New York Times, here ya go. There's a fine interview with the man himself that further solidifies for me that this issue really works, but I found the writing of the article unsatisfactory. Referring to Spike as just "another vampire" in regards to his relationship with Buffy is like saying the Titanic was "a sunken boat". The following comment made me cry noob: "Buffy sleeps with a fellow slayer. And, oh yeah, she's a woman." Bwuh?! ALL Slayers are women, you buffoon, that's a crucial part of the mythos. Christ on a crutch, with all the fans out there, couldn't they have found somebody better to write this thing?)

    Word! lol, I totally agree with you I'd go into detail but Im not very articulate grrr.


    People on imdb.com boards are saying that they've lost a role model etc which is pretty saddening, if only they had your viewpoint.

    Comment


    • #3
      Another fine article. I think the author is rather forgetting the completely lost look that Satsu sports pretty much the rest of the time we see her after the bed panels, which suggests that Satsu is not going to be content to leave it at just that, but besides that, what she writes about the scene itself I have to agree with. Reading over the panels a second and third time I just feel like I "get it", in a sense. That at least from Buffy's point of view, they give you all the pieces you need to clearly show you where her head's at, and what this does and doesn't mean to her but do it in a way that not in the least harsh or demeaning. And it doesn't shove it down our throats. It tells us what Buffy is feeling, but it doesn't tell us we have to agree with it, regardless of the post-sex talk. Otherwise Joss would've made everyone in the story fine with it, and we know Willow most definitely is not. What Joss plans to explore as far as Buffy's feelings afterwards I can only guess; they can remain the same or he has the option of actually having her consider something with Satsu. That's left to be seen. My best guess is that she indeed remains true to what she's told Satsu here and that this probably won't happen again, but then again that's just a guess.

      But Satsu, that's going to be much more complex I think. They're not on the same page. Satsu may say so, she may have cracked a few smiles towards Buffy during their talk, but there's just too much there then and afterwards to suggest that Buffy's answer to "what about tomorrow?" is not the answer she wanted to hear, and she's not going to just wake up in the morning suddenly okay with it. It may be a situation where Satsu convinced herself beforehand that she would be okay, prepared herself for the fact that Buffy's feelings probably wouldn't change, but in the end still held that small glimmer of hope deep down that they would, so ended up devastated anyway. She's in love, Buffy's not, and I believe that scenario the author talks about earlier on in her article, about being in love with a straight girl in getting your heart broken, I think that's exactly the type of stuff we're going to see from now on. We'll see a broken-hearted Satsu; she might not show it to Buffy right away but we'll know. Again Joss does of course have the room to evolve Buffy's feelings here should he wish, but even if he did decide to go that route, he never passes up on the angst first so broken-hearted Satsu is a given either way.
      Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-03-08, 10:31 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        People on imdb.com boards are saying that they've lost a role model
        But how many (pre)teen girls gained a new role model of Strong Bisexual Woman! Just what Joss wanted.
        Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
        Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
        Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
          But how many (pre)teen girls gained a new role model of Strong Bisexual Woman! Just what Joss wanted.
          I don't think Joss intended for her to be defined by her sexuality at all, that's the whole point. He said it himself, he isn't going to spend the next fifty issues proving Buffy is straight. We know she is, he doesn't see it as an issue.

          Buffy being straight, bisexual or homosexual is irrelevant. Some believe they've lost a role model because Buffy used Satsu, personally I think it's an overreaction but it's not because she slept with a woman.

          ~ Banner by Nina ~

          Comment


          • #6
            There's a school of thought wherein if your review and commentary on it starts "it works and here's why" and you still need 500 words or so to articulate it, the message was... apparently, it didn't work. It's like Matt Damon says in "Rounders" -- spend the first 30 minutes at the table trying to figure out who the sucker is. If you can't figure out who the sucker is in the first 30 minutes... it's you.

            I really don't care for the way that the effect this had on Satsu is just wadded up and thrown aside with an "oh well, rite of passage". I do agree with the author, though, that a relationship feel suspect.
            sigpic
            Banner by LRae12

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
              There's a school of thought wherein if your review and commentary on it starts "it works and here's why" and you still need 500 words or so to articulate it, the message was... apparently, it didn't work.
              Or the person felt they had a lot of ground to cover, making sure they didn't miss any points, so their thoughts weren't nitpicked and pulled apart and they're forced to make several clarifying posts to explain their view As is the way of the fandom.

              Personally I thought it was a pretty insightful and well-thought out post. Thanks for bringing it over Farah

              ~ Banner by Nina ~

              Comment


              • #8
                He said it himself, he isn't going to spend the next fifty issues proving Buffy is straight. We know she is
                Please, stop repeating this mantra. She's, at least, "bi-curious".
                Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

                Comment


                • #9
                  And a bi-curious person whom after experimentation still decides they prefer the company of the opposite sex can then still be considered straight. Only the individual knows how they feel and can classify themselves how they see fit, if they even see fit to classify themselves at all; its up to no one else to label others for them. So if Whedon decides, as appears to be the case right now from his own mouth, that his character's going to still consider herself straight, then she's straight.
                  Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-03-08, 02:48 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                    Please, stop repeating this mantra. She's, at least, "bi-curious".
                    Please, stop focusing on Buffy's sexuality as if it defines her. I think you made it pretty clear what you think of her already.

                    I wouldn't even call her bi-curious because I don't think she gave it a lot of thought one way or the other, or was ever curious about what it'd be like to be with another woman. It just happened, the same way two drunken girls will sometimes hook up at a party on some random spur of the moment thing, or in this case if someone's feeling lonely.

                    ~ Banner by Nina ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Vampmogs, OK. We'll see.

                      or in this case if someone's feeling lonely
                      Or "hornyly".
                      Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                      Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                      Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think you made it pretty clear what you think of her already.
                        I love and respect Buffy, the real Buffy. Not that fakeBuffy from so called "season eight".
                        The real Buffy is not a bankrobber. She doesn't sleep with fellow slayers.
                        Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                        Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                        Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you actually got anything constructive to say to back up your arguments, apart from keep harping on about her last sexual encounter?

                          For example, what else about her character do you think rings false with you?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            *grabs popcorn, wants to watch sue advocate strongly in defense of Season 8*

                            NT, canon is not something that depends on the opinion or reaction of the audience*, it is what Joss says it is. This is the real story of Buffy Summers and the people around her. She slept with Satsu just as surely as she did with Parker (albeit arguably in the style in which Parker slept with her).

                            *It depends on the audience insofar as Joss is dissuaded from doing something by the Audience Principle, which is wise. But once it's out there, it's canon.
                            sigpic
                            Banner by LRae12

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                              Or "hornyly".
                              There's actually nothing wrong with that for a start. Sex is a completely natural thing, and last time I checked Buffy didn't qualify as a hooker because *shock gasp* she actually had sex with someone whom she wasn't in a full blown relationship with, as is the usual with her, or because she's had a total of five sexual partners, two of whom she was seriously dating, one who she was looking to the date, the other whom she was basically dating and felt strongly for and the other who's she good friends with.. *oh the horror!*

                              Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                              I love and respect Buffy, the real Buffy. Not that fakeBuffy from so called "season eight".
                              That *so called* season 8, is the season 8. If you don't like it you don't have to read it. But just because Buffy has done something you don't like doesn't automatically mean season 8 gets booted out of canon camp. If that's how you choose to deal with this, fine, but it ain't gonna change anything about the status of the season.

                              The real Buffy is not a bankrobber. She doesn't sleep with fellow slayers.
                              Yeah she does... cause we saw her do it. The real Buffy attempted to rob a sporting store, the real Buffy slept with two vampires, one was soulless at the time. So not only is it believeable that Buffy could stray and rob a bank, but it's also not the worst crime in the world she's slept with a fellow slayer, whom is a very good person if we judge her on what we've seen thus far in the season.

                              ~ Banner by Nina ~

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Very good article. Though I'm not sure why the author thinks the New York Times wouldn't know about Buffy (or lesbianism for that matter). Surely there must be a few Buffy fans on the staff?? Come on, there are in every office in a media/creative industry and many other industries beside.

                                Minor quibble though - it's that geek tendency to claim certain territory as your own, and get a bit miffed when the mainstream "takes it over". I know, I do it too. Mine! My Buffy! Mwahahaha!

                                Originally posted by Sosa lola View Post
                                At first glance, I was ready to scream "FAN SERVICE!" and punch somebody at Dark Horse in the face.
                                I think I had that reaction for a millisecond too...though I had it much more for the bubblebath scene with Faith and Gigi. And still slightly do there.

                                If nothing else, it's the only thing in the world that can account for Riley.
                                I dunno... he is part of the LGBT alliance. He could be a transman (which, if Beth Ditto's gay and sleeps with transmen, then, Buffy...ok, there's no actual argument here, just like that "yes, I am a lesbian" line.

                                Re Buffy being the straightest character ever, I've read some interesting discussions (anyone remember Ravyn? She wrote a thread about it on Buffyworld) of the idea of Buffy having somewhat of a "queer" identity because of her attraction to vampires - she's a sexual outsider, to a degree, by merit of boinking the undead. A vampesbian (as the thread title put it). Unfortunately I can't remember anything much of what was said in that thread, can anyone else recall? Did it get moved here?

                                But then I actually read the panels. The dialogue was so in character that I could practically hear Sarah Michelle Gellar dubbing over it. It was smart, it was funny, and it was anything but clichéd. I read it again, showed it to Meg, and read it again. It was sweet. It was sad. It was touching, and it worked.
                                Very much so. It didn't necessarily portray Buffy in the best light...but a very human one, and one that sounded very much like how she would act in that situation.


                                So in enters Satsu - somebody outside the inner circle, somebody who hasn't known her since high school, somebody she's had fighting at her side, somebody she trusts and whose company she enjoys. All of a sudden, this new friend expresses interest in pursuing something more. It's not her cup of tea, but then again, the attention is welcome, and god knows she could use a bit of comforting companionship amidst the never-ending war zone that is the life of a Slayer. I don't care which team you play for, I can see that as a mindset most people can at least wrap their brain around, if not imagine themselves in.
                                Very much so. It's like, say, a straight woman starting up a relationship with a guy she doesn't really fancy, because she's lonely. She doesn't particularly want to have sex with him, but that's part of the parcel, and once they're in bed, guess what, he's pretty good at it. It's about comfort - and yes, there are orgasms along the road too, but the motive wasn't sexual attraction, it was more a combination of horniness and loneliness.

                                The thing that clinched this for me is the pillow talk scene the reader enters on. A relationship with Satsu would've been highly suspect to me, and an "Oh my god, this was such a mistake" scene would've felt ugly.
                                It felt very true to life, that talk. Agree that "OMGNOOOooooo!" in the manner of Spike's naughty dream in season 5 would've been off-putting and cruel.


                                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  it ain't gonna change anything about the status of the season
                                  It depends on the audience insofar as Joss is dissuaded from doing something by the Audience Principle, which is wise. But once it's out there, it's canon.
                                  What if... guys, what if we UNITE, and start the "S8 is a fake!" campaign! That would be soo cool!
                                  If we can convince people, taht S8 is not canon... Whaddaya think?
                                  Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                                  Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                                  Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Not at all. It wouldn't make a difference, and would cost a pretty decent chunk of self-respect in the process. I don't actually care that Buffy's not perfect, I care if Joss is telling a compelling story with meaningful arcs for every character. Pretty far from Buffy's finest hour, but probably not her worst.

                                    And, again, there's nothing to convince anybody of -- Season 8 *is* canon, whether 1 person reads it or millions. What I said about the Audience Principle was the idea that Joss can think twice about doing a story (taking out the Buffy/Faith kiss in "Enemies", deciding not to kill off Xander) -- but once the story is out there, that's the canon.
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                                    • #19
                                      What if... guys, what if we UNITE, and start the "S8 is a fake!" campaign! That would be soo cool!
                                      If we can convince people, taht S8 is not canon... Whaddaya think?
                                      Yeah then we can pretend the second world war never happened. season 8 is a reality. You can ignore it but it's there and whatever comes next will depend on what happens in it so i think we're stuck with it.

                                      Sorry.
                                      JUST ENOUGH KILL

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                                        The real Buffy is not a bankrobber. She doesn't sleep with fellow slayers.
                                        I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Thousands of Star Wars fans feel that the real Han Solo would shoot first, until George Lucas decided that the canon Han wouldn't. People felt that Lucas had destroyed an important part of Han's character.

                                        If George Lucas decides to insert Jar-Jar into the Original Trilogy, do we have to accept that his word is gospel?

                                        I don't neceserily agree with Ntshpp, but I can see where she (or he) is coming from. What has happened onpage inteferes with the way she's always percieved the character.

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