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  • Buffy had...-SPOILER THREAD-

    So buffy has had sex with satsu in wolves at the gate. Joss has also revelaed that Buffy is not a lesbian.

    What are peoples thoughts about this. im happy that she has and not because im a sex raving teenage boy but because we get some development into who buffy is in season eight which right now seems to be a mess.

    What do people think?

    Link is here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/bo...ts&oref=slogin

  • #2
    Buffy has become the bi-curious cliche. Confirmed. Really Joss, what WERE you thinking?

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    • #3
      If you look in the Buffy 8.12 "Wolves at the Gate", Part I Discussion Thread you'll find out how a lot of us feel on this issue but I guess I can state again how I feel in here.

      I think it was absolutely pointless. It's not doing anything for Buffy's character but making her look bad. I mean we already saw her do the I'm sleeping with someone I don't care about in season 6. Yeah she want's to feel a connection but sleeping with someone who's in love with you but you aren't in love with them, isn't going to give you a connection. I'm sooo annoyed with this whole situation. There was no need for this to happen at all. It's not like Buffy ever had bicurious thoughts so I don't understand why now all of a sudden she does. Joss sums it up as her being "open minded." Please! *sigh* So yeah annoyance is what I feel, as well as dumbfounded.
      T _A _T _E _R _S'____ W _O _R _L _D

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      • #4
        Another Whedon interview:

        From Newsarama

        NRAMA: And any thinking about it has to come after the fact?

        JW: Right. Rather than just being coy about it, and the whole "will they/won't they?" Just have it happen, and then have them be coy about it. Awkwardly, nakedly, coy. Have all the silly fun of the French farce where everyone runs into the room, and then have the genuine emotion of "Did I use this person? Did I manipulate this person?" And they're both thinking that. They're both wondering if they're going to get hurt or if they're going to hurt the other person, and whether or not they should have done it. Not due to any moral reason or anything. It's not a huge life change for Buffy. She's not gay. Sexuality is a spectrum. Many of us have experimented in our youth ? that's what youths are for.

        So we knew it wasn't going to be a giant character shift ? it was just going to be nice fodder for Buffy to be going through something besides felling lonely and disconnected and having the weight of the world on her shoulders. It was nice for something nice to happen to her, and then for her to get kind of awkward about it.

        Yeah ? we liked the arena, and it was Drew who pushed for it just to happen. And I liked to not have to go "In the next issue?the kiss which proves she's heterosexual!" like they do on tv. I like that it all just happened.

        So basically it's supposed to be the we sleep together once, and feel really awkward about it afterwards cliche too. Lovely. Of course the main difference is that unlike a lot of times when that has been used, Satsu is IN LOVE with Buffy, which really kinda changes things, A LOT.

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        • #5
          I'm praying that Buffy's decision to sleep with Satsu is being influenced by the breaking of Amy's "true love" spell. Prehaps the person who awoke Buffy would be the one she fell for? Maybe this is all a set up for Satsu to betray Buffy? Here's hoping.

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          • #6
            I really don't think it's a problem. Buffy isn't 'gay now' and that was my only concern and the thing I've debated against.

            Willow turned 'gay now' and a lot of people shouted and cried, some even left the series and in the end it turned out to be wonderful. I'm confident Joss can make this work just in the same way.. but not in the same way because she isn't gay, if you get my drift.

            And really this raises a lot of moral questions for Buffy, sets up some nice character interaction between Buffy and Satsu, will raise some nice conversation between Buffy and the Scoobies and will give Satsu some more screen (or Panel) time, which I'm happy about because I really dig her character.

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            • #7
              I honestly think that, if this develops into any kind of relationship having to do with the arc, it will be old news once the arc is completed or whenever the two break up (if they ever even officially get together). If nothing comes of this at all and its explained away as Buffy simply satisfying her human desires for one night, I think it will be forgotten even faster (though even if that's the case I find it hard to believe they won't have an effect on Satsu herself play into the arc in some form or another).

              In other words I think the circumstances of it being seen as unwelcome and unexpected by some, and cliche to others, will eventually wear off once the real story of this arc comes into play and from then on forward to the point where it won't resonate as heavily as does now since it just happened. It'll just be something that happened and that will be that.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sacred Knight View Post
                In other words I think the circumstances of it being seen as unwelcome and unexpected by some, and cliche to others, will eventually wear off once the real story of this arc comes into play and from then on forward to the point where it won't resonate as heavily as does now since it just happened. It'll just be something that happened and that will be that.
                More so, I think that when the story is actually given a chance to develop, which might I add many people are not allowing it that chance, it'll become much clearer how this is going to pan out. Never mind the arc, think about the entire series. So far we've had one issue of one arc and people have seemingly made up their mind about this before it's been given a chance to be fleshed out.

                I mean we could even get a lot more development next issue which could completely change people's perspectives on this, who knows.

                Very few people seem to be saying "I'm not really a fan of it right now... but we'll see where it goes" it's more like an angry mob right now.

                Generally I agree with you that people will calm down, that it won't be such a big deal. You've already seen it on Whedonesque where most people were stunned, shocked, even angry over it when the NY Times link was posted, then in the seperate thread for the actual issue, people seemed to calm down once they'd actually read the issue. I'm hoping that this will continue.

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                • #9
                  I’m pretty sure, that Buffy will continue her relationship with Satsu. Maybe, until end of season 8.
                  Why? Because, if she dumps Satsu, or starts dating with males, then become clear, that 8.12 was sorta “Lesbian Kiss Episode”. Hype, created with purpose, trick to earn more money on sales. $$$

                  So, I’m looking forward for more Batsu. Maybe, even Buffy/Willow or Buffy/Fray.
                  Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                  Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                  Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

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                  • #10
                    Oh why, why, my favorite tv show, is now ruined!

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                    • #11
                      I don't really get what the big deal is. I mean, it's a big step in a new direction for the character, but it's something I could see happening (and not just in a dirty, "Buffy & Faith" kinda way). People get lonely, people get curious, people try things. So she slept with a girl. Does it really change the character all that much? Even if she went full-on gay, would that ruin Buffy in any way? Not to me.

                      As for the story itself, it's way too early for me to judge that. When it's all said and done, we may look back and say, "Y'know, Buffy sleeping with Satsu added nothing at all. In fact, all it did was pull attention away from the bigger things going on." And if that's the case, so be it. But I, for one, am reserving all judgment until I see how it all plays out.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                        Why? Because, if she dumps Satsu, or starts dating with males, then become clear, that 8.12 was sorta "Lesbian Kiss Episode". Hype, created with purpose, trick to earn more money on sales. $$$
                        I think people have made a valid point that it simply can't qualify as such, because we never saw the kiss or the sex. We saw them after sex talking about their relationship.. hot stuff.

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                        • #13
                          It's funny that the real "Lesbian Kiss episode", the *real* one, the first on American TV, (5.16 "The Body") was completely unpretentious, no ostentation -- it was so subtle and unassuming I never would have known it was the first kiss of its kind on TV without being told.

                          Contrast this... where the release of the issue was led by the New York Times, trailed by ABC News, and then basically every periodical in the comic and entertainment industry. I have no doubt that it will be in next week's EW.

                          I mean, when you think about it, is it in any way unfair that people wondered, both in the press and the fandom, if this was a stunt? I give Joss the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't, but still -- he and Scott Allie did a poor job just by virtue of giving it that all important 'appearance of impropriety'.
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                          • #14
                            That's a good point. I still believe its not a stunt based on the various bits of foreshadowing prior, but they didn't do themselves any favors by having the Times write an article about it. All it did was reinforce the stigma that there's something taboo about it in the first place by insinuating the fact her sexual partner was a female suddenly made this fictional character newsworthy again.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sacred Knight View Post
                              That's a good point. I still believe its not a stunt based on the various bits of foreshadowing prior, but they didn't do themselves any favors by having the Times write an article about it. All it did was reinforce the stigma that there's something taboo about it in the first place by insinuating the fact her sexual partner was a female suddenly made this fictional character newsworthy again.
                              Well Allie already stated that Joss only went to the Times beforehand because they wanted to introduce people to the idea and explain a few things from the horses mouth what was going on here. Obviously that's back fired but I think his intentions were more or less good.

                              And it actually just doesn't make sense that Joss would be doing this to boost sales. Because sales are going great for season 8, and are doing really well for Darkhorse. There was no need to boost sales by doing a stunt like this.
                              Last edited by vampmogs; 10-03-08, 06:19 AM.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Insun View Post
                                Oh why, why, my favorite tv show, is now ruined!
                                I do not understand why this ruins your favorite tv show. Did you even watch it? Ever? Her sex with Satsu has nothing to do with the wonder that BtVS is. It is an amazing story and told by some amazing storytellers. Open your mind, let the entirity of the story encompass you. Or don't. It's your loss, really.


                                And, what?!!?! I about crapped myself when I read this comic. It seemed very out of character for Buffy. And then I reread the entire series and I could see how it had been leading up to this point. Buffy has said herself how she misses the sex. And an option presented herself. It is not out of character for Buffy to use someone else to meet her own needs. She did it to Spike, why should this seem out of character to her? Sure, it was more self-loathing with Spike (pre-soul, don't get me into a discussion about Spuffy post-soul) but I think that maybe, just maybe Buffy wanted the sex and the sex she got. It just happened to be with a very female partner.

                                I don't see what the controversy is.

                                And if they were trying to sell issues, well ... it looks like it worked.

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                                • #17
                                  Oh why, why, my favorite tv show, is now ruined!
                                  Hey, don’t take all this S8 crap seriously. For majority of fans, all Buffy comics (including so called “Season 8”) are just sort of painted fanfics.

                                  Listen guys, if you’re referring to S8, please write it as “Phony8” or “JW’s Stupid8”, something like that. And always point, that S8 is not canon.
                                  Adam: "These are lies. [throws S8 comics in the trash] None of this is real. The world has been changed. It's intriguing but it's wrong."
                                  Vampire: "Feels ok to me."
                                  Adam: "You're under his spell just like the others. I seem to be the only one who is not." (c) 4.17 Superstar.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ntshpp View Post
                                    Listen guys, if you're referring to S8, please write it as "Phony8" or "JW's Stupid8", something like that. And always point, that S8 is not canon.
                                    Seriously? Give it a rest. It ain't cute or funny anymore, quite frankly it's bloody annoying. Don't force your opinions on others in this way. If you hate season 8 so much you don't have to post in these threads. You aren't adding anything worthwhile to the discussion with statements such as these at all. How many times have people told you to give it up? Take their advice.

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