The Slayer Population

[OkinawanSteel]

Just a couple of Slayer-related questions I wanted to get other people's opinions on:

Do you think that for the duration of the comics, the Slayer population will stay roughly as it is, or do you think there's a possibility that they'll somehow revert back to having only two Slayers?

Secondly, now that we've had a chance to see the effects of the spell in action, do you like the idea of hundreds of Slayers, or did you prefer it pre-Chosen when we just had a pair of them?

[KingofCretins]

I think that probably a lot of the between 1800 and 2000 Slayers will end up either getting killed or lose their abilities during the course of this war with Twilight, especially the unaligned ones who won't know trouble is coming. But I don't see Joss just rolling it back to Buffy and Faith... this spell is Buffy's shanshu, it's her reward, it's what connects her to a future and a life without Slaying as the primary purpose. I don't think Joss would just take that away.

I like how it is now -- I *enjoy* Slayer Mafia, it's an idea I had kind of been thinking of in fic and such before it became textual.

[Nina]

Because I haven't read the comics yet I can't post my idea's about you questions. But I've a question;

How young was the youngest slayer after the spell. In Chosen we saw a girl playing baseball, and I thought she was pretty young (13 years?), are there younger slayers in the comics?

What if a potential become a slayer the moment she is born, or worse still in the womb of the mother. You know, the potentials who weren't already alive in Chosen. Or was it an one shot deal? Is that already clear?

[OkinawanSteel]

They have to address the issues with the Slayer line as well. It's a fair assumption, and I believe Joss said at some point in an interview (as long as he didn't come up with a new interesting idea) that the Slayer line runs through Faith. Did the spell change that? Does the line run through all the girls now? Or will it eventually dwindle back down to just "one girl in all the world"?

But I don't see Joss just rolling it back to Buffy and Faith... this spell is Buffy's shanshu, it's her reward, it's what connects her to a future and a life without Slaying as the primary purpose. I don't think Joss would just take that away.

I don't think it's out of the question that he might do that, perhaps because I don't see him giving Buffy a happy ending, at least not that happy of an ending. A life where she's happy and still a Slayer, yes, but a life where she's just free to walk away from it all I don't see happening.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

They have to address the issues with the Slayer line as well. It's a fair assumption, and I believe Joss said at some point in an interview (as long as he didn't come up with a new interesting idea) that the Slayer line runs through Faith. Did the spell change that? Does the line run through all the girls now? Or will it eventually dwindle back down to just "one girl in all the world"?

It would be so beyond awesome if there was a new slayer line running through each and every girl. But I have a feeling that they'll keep this as the last generation of slayers. I can't remember where it came up in the comics, but wasn't there something about the progression towards the death of magic? Perhaps even in this issue? (excuse my memory!)

[KingofCretins]

Nina, we haven't really learned any of the new Slayers' ages other than one, a Slayer named Genevieve, who we meet on the eve of her 19th birthday. She would therefore have been activated sometime while she was 17, or maybe 16 if the gap has been longer.

What we do know is that Kennedy, who was trained by a Watcher, was 19 when she was called, and thought she may have been too old. We also know that the Council had the practice of Cruciamentum, designed around the 18th birthday. That suggests it's pretty rare for a Slayer to be called when she's *older* than 18. So I'd say that most Slayers, probably out to 3 standard deviations, are probably called from their early teens to about the age of 18.

Many now speculate that the Slayer line has been effectively extinguished by this spell. Joss has already said that the 'line' no longer ran through Buffy, only through Faith. However, now any Slayer that could have been called if Faith was killed *already is* a Slayer. One could assume that the line would just continue all the same, with the Slayer "of record" simply going from one girl to the next. But, we also know about Fray, which is also part of the canon, set several hundred years later. She is the first Slayer since the 21st century.

[Nina]

Thanks. So, if Fray is canon, it could be possible that this is the last generation of slayer for a long while ... that's interesting.

BTW;
Wasn't Dana (slayer from 'Damage') not already 24? I can remember something like that ... but I can't find back where I've found that.

[OkinawanSteel]

Many now speculate that the Slayer line has been effectively extinguished by this spell. Joss has already said that the 'line' no longer ran through Buffy, only through Faith. However, now any Slayer that could have been called if Faith was killed *already is* a Slayer. One could assume that the line would just continue all the same, with the Slayer "of record" simply going from one girl to the next. But, we also know about Fray, which is also part of the canon, set several hundred years later. She is the first Slayer since the 21st century.

I thought the spell was that all the potentials around at the time Willow cast the spell, were made Slayers. I guess it depends on whether any subsequent potentials automatically have Slayer powers or not. I'm assuming that new potentials are being born all the time too.

[KingofCretins]

I was just going through the transcript, and I can't find a mention of her age. We know she was tortured when she was 10, and that it had been 5 years since the man who did it was killed. Ah, although Angel said she was abducted "over 15 years ago". That would make her at least 25 (older than Buffy or Faith at the time). It's certainly possible, but it still doesn't give us much to go on statistically -- she could be an extreme outlier.

[stormwreath]

My assumption is that the very earliest a Potential can become a Slayer is at menarche, and the very oldest she can be is just before she reaches full adult growth and maturity... but it's a bell curve, with most Slayers being called in their mid teens.

If Dana is really 25, rather than Angel (or the writers...) having made a mistake when he said she was kidnapped 15 years earlier and he actually meant 10 years, then it's possible she was a late developer... perhaps {engage fanwank mode} because of all those drugs her attacker was injecting her with?

Regarding Fray - it says in the comic that the Slayer line still continued, but because there were no more demons and no magic, none of them were ever called as Slayers. Eventually, after several centuries the magic returned, and Melaka became the first actual Slayer for generations.

As for the question of the Slayer line, there's one possibility that I haven't seen discussed much. This is what Buffy says:

It's true none of you have the power that Faith and I do. So here's the part where you make a choice. So here's the part where you make a choice: What if you could have that power...now? In every generation, one slayer is born... because a bunch of men who died thousands of years ago made up that rule. They were powerful men. This woman is more powerful than all of them combined. So I say we change the rule. I say my power should be our power.

My power should be our power. What if she meant that literally? That there are still only two 'real' Slayers, Buffy and Faith - but Buffy found a way using the Scythe and Willow's magic to share her own Slayerness with all the Potentials.

What that means is that the Slayer line still runs through Faith and Faith alone. When Buffy dies (again), her power will be lost and all the new Slayers will go back to being Potentials again. We'll be back to just one girl in all the world again - Faith. (Or whoever becomes the next Slayer after Faith dies).

[KingofCretins]

My power should be our power. What if she meant that literally? That there are still only two 'real' Slayers, Buffy and Faith - but Buffy found a way using the Scythe and Willow's magic to share her own Slayerness with all the Potentials.

What that means is that the Slayer line still runs through Faith and Faith alone. When Buffy dies (again), her power will be lost and all the new Slayers will go back to being Potentials again. We'll be back to just one girl in all the world again - Faith. (Or whoever becomes the next Slayer after Faith dies).

Y'know, that's pretty bold. I don't think it's what Joss was meaning to do, but it definitely could explain a lot. For instance, main characters always beating up minor characters. Amongst the vampires, I view it as a blood potency thing, like the White Wolf RPG; Angel and Spike and Dru and Darla are more badassed because they share lineage with the Master, undiluted. With Slayers, you could see the same thing. I mean, Buffy and Faith both *school* Genevieve pretty handily. Buffy has her alpha team come at her full speed and takes them apart. Certainly an explanation like this could account for the difference -- the spell-activated Slayers are just an echo of the real thing.

But, the other problem I'd have with that other than that I just don't think it's what Joss was doing, is it doesn't explain why Dana is *obviously* every bit of a Slayer when she manhandles both Spike and Angel. Andrew wasn't kidding when he pointed out the value of a Slayer who hadn't dated them.

[OkinawanSteel]

My power should be our power. What if she meant that literally? That there are still only two 'real' Slayers, Buffy and Faith - but Buffy found a way using the Scythe and Willow's magic to share her own Slayerness with all the Potentials.

What that means is that the Slayer line still runs through Faith and Faith alone. When Buffy dies (again), her power will be lost and all the new Slayers will go back to being Potentials again. We'll be back to just one girl in all the world again - Faith. (Or whoever becomes the next Slayer after Faith dies).

I sort of thought about that when Gigi called Buffy the "fount of all our power". It made me wonder what if Buffy, or perhaps even Willow, lost their power, would all the former potentials lose theirs too?

I considered that might be part of the Twilight story, that he'd try to strip them of all their powers that way and then the only Slayer threat left would be Faith. Of course, they'd get their power back, Buffy at least, at some point. But I did find it interesting that Gigi referred to Buffy that way, instead of calling her the "queen" or the "leader". It's an intriguing choice of words.

[KingofCretins]

Genevieve did also refer to Buffy as a queen, or at least her position as being that of a queen.

It has certain appeal from a story-telling and fanwanking basis, but I don't want them to cop out by having Buffy and Faith still being the only "real" Slayers. The credit for their advantages in skill and even strength should go to age and experience.

Here's an interesting thing, and even the Council may not have ever learned an answer -- is it possible that the Slayer power 'wears off', that a Slayer can age out of the thing?

[OkinawanSteel]

Genevieve did also refer to Buffy as a queen, or at least her position as being that of a queen.

It has certain appeal from a story-telling and fanwanking basis, but I don't want them to cop out by having Buffy and Faith still being the only "real" Slayers. The credit for their advantages in skill and even strength should go to age and experience.

Here's an interesting thing, and even the Council may not have ever learned an answer -- is it possible that the Slayer power 'wears off', that a Slayer can age out of the thing?

Did she? Even so, I still think the "fount" phrase is interesting terminology to use.

Aren't Buffy and Faith two of the oldest Slayers ever? I always wondered if maybe we'd never seen the full capabilities of the Slayer because they always died so young. Anything to do with how age affects the Slayer could be a good concept to explore too.

[KingofCretins]

Well, I think they do get stronger as they get older. But I'm also wondering if, as has been brought up elsewhere, if the Slayer is meant to be controlled, if they come with an expiration on their powers.

If we assume the dates aren't just screwed up with Dana, she, Buffy, and Faith are the only Slayers we know to reach the age of... 23 to be certain, probably 24, and possibly 25 (I'm making fewer assumptions about the timeline). It's plausible that Nikki was that old, but never established.

Aren't the late 20s or early 30s developmentally significant for women, biologically? I have no idea. But I could imagine a reveal where they simply all... y'know, lose it.

[vampmogs]

Don't know if Joss would go for that. There's something a little off with the idea that a woman would loose her power at a certain age, especially from a creative standpoint when you think what the slayer is actually symbolic of. I'm not sure anything about a time limit would have been intentionally created by the Shadowmen when they probably didn't expect the girl to live that long anyway.

[sueworld]

Aren't the late 20s or early 30s developmentally significant for women, biologically? I have no idea. But I could imagine a reveal where they simply all... y'know, lose it.

Oh dear, so you'd be proposing a sort of 'Slayer menopause', Colour me not surprised that Joss wouldn't think that was a great idea.

[alexa]

Yep, you guys are way off on that one
Interesting idea about the slayers powers dying when Buffy does though. Don't really think that's going to happen.. I was more interested in what would happen if Willow was gone.. need a way to explain why there's only one slayer in Fray I guess. Unless there is more, and Fray doesn't know it.