Season 8 Complaints

[BlasterBoy]

I have seen this pop up in almost every thread, so I definitely think this warrants it's own thread. Any criticism? Do you want to justify what Season 8 writers are doing? Go right ahead!

My big criticism is art. Jo Chen is a genius and her covers are fantastic. If only she could do the whole issue. I would love that. I think the penciller is not doing as good of a job, because I cannot seem to notice certain characters. Buffy and Andrew are drawn horribly and I can't recognize them one bit. I only recognize by what they say.

[sueworld]

Blimey love, you are brave. I thought I was supposed to be the only one that had some 'issues' with this series.

I'll be interested in seeing what kind of response you get to this.

[KingofCretins]

Two good things about this thread -- I might get a chance to see objections to Season 8 where the alternative approach by Joss wouldn't be met with other criticism, and, if nothing else, it's a chance to compartmentalize

[sueworld]

compartmentalize

Is that a real 'need'?

[Weredog]

A few minor complaints:

Jeanty's pencils
He's a little off with the facial features. In #3, look at the way Buffy's drawn when she says "And then I threw up in my mouth a little." I'm sorry, but that is not Buffy Summers. Personally, I think Paul Lee ("The Chain") is a way better penciller. Giles is Giles, Vi is Vi, Andrew is.... better than Jeanty's Andrew. Lee actually makes 20 year olds look like 20 year olds, I find.

Warren
It's not working for me. Amy saved him before he died, but died enough so The First could take his form but doesn't know it cause Amy didn't wanna make him mad? Joss screwed up and he knows he did.
That aside, I thought it was weak to bring back Warren to guilt trip Willow about killing him.
Didn't she (as well as we) get over that in the series finale when she went all white?

(Wait, is "Chosen" considered a season finale now....?)

Release dates
To think season 8 is ending in a couple years is depressing. It has to be biweekly.

[vampmogs]

Blimey love, you are brave. I thought I was supposed to be the only one that had some 'issues' with this series.

I'll be interested in seeing what kind of response you get to this.

Sue, I'm speaking on behalf of myself here but my problem isn't that you have issues with s8 as much as it some of the things you have stated about the series, as for example;

Nah, not my idea of Buffy, but then I'm not the target audience which appears to be blokes interested in seeing scantily clad potentials waving weapons around, having cat fights and jumping outta helicopters. No wonder it took this long for the focus to move onto Giles, he wouldn't look as good doing the same sort of thing would he?

Scantily clad potentials waving weapons around: I don't see any evidence to show they are anymore scantily clad than anything we would have seen on the show, and waving weapons around; pretty much been Buffy's moto since 'Welcome to the Hellmouth.

Having cat fights: Hasn't been one cat fight in season 8.

Jumping outta helicopters: Has happened *once* in the entire season thus far, and isn't something they've done numerous times to pander to blokes.

That is what I find hard to grasp, you've either have a problem with something that hasn't even happened (cat fights) or things that have always happened in the show (girls waving weapons around). I see no logic in that.

It is the only qualm I have with you not liking s8, because some of the things haven't even happened or have always happened in the series. I'm not sure if you've changed your mind about these things or not, but from what I know about your feelings these are the things I have problems with.

So far the only problem I have with season 8 is how long we have to wait between each issue, but I understand why this needs to happen so I live with it. I'll be the first to try and justify what the writers are doing in saying so far it has been brilliant and has only gotten better with each issue, which I can't see as a bad thing whatsoever.

[sueworld]

I thought I had explained myself when I originally brought that lj review over on another thread.

I know it wasn't done by you love, but I grow weary of having folks jump all over me just because I have an opinion that differs from the rest of you.

Anyhoo, it's nearly 5am where I am, and I'm knackered. *nicks Joss's Teddy Spike* and I'm too tiered to go through it all over again just now.

[vampmogs]

I thought I had explained myself when I originally brought that lj review over on another thread.

I'm sorry. But I thought the post I quoted was your own beliefs and not that of others, if it wasn't then I'm sorry but you did make it appear as so.

I know it wasn't done by you love, but I grow weary of having folks jump all over me just because I have an opinion that differs from the rest of you.

I don't mind you have a different opinion, just really can't understand some of the things you have said, such as the cat fights, because such things have never actually happened in the season.

Anyhoo, it's nearly 5am where I am, and I'm knackered. *nicks Joss's Teddy Spike* and I'm too tiered to go through it all over again just now.

Goodnight, or .. Goodmorning in your case I guess

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Overall I'm enjoying the comics. They're not the greatest comics in the world, but I feel they're using the medium in interesting ways (some interesting parallels/panel transitions, and some nice use of narrative "voiceover" alongside images that don't explain too much, that allow ideas to resonate ? I'm thinking particularly of Faith's arc here, and the flashbacks to things with Buffy, contrasting with her present with Gigi).

As continuations of the Jossverse, they're not quite satisfying to me, because I'm used to 40 odd minute episodes, so the comics pace is just sooooo slooooow, waiting for each issue. Reading the trade paperback for the first five issues was more satisfying, but still?.WANT MORE!

I don't have a big problem with the art. It's not consistent, but most of the time it works for me, and some of it is very expressive ? I think Faith's emotions have been captured well, and there's some great use of visual comedy ? Buffy running away from the Spike/Angel sandwich of her dreams had this Looney Tunes, cartoonish quality that was hilarious.

One of my criticisms? The readers?honestly, the number of people who seem to think it's ok for slayers to kill humans. You lot are all EVIL and must be stopped. Without lethal force, of course.

Perhaps my biggest bugbear is the use of returning villains. Skinless Warren is just a bit silly, frankly, and Amy's a character who's never been in my top rankings, so I wasn't thrilled to see her back. I feel like her overall arc has been patchy, and just making her OMG!evol!insane!!! isn't exactly a subtle move.

Did enjoy having Ethan back. He was my favourite returning villain?which made it all the more of a shame that we never got to see him in "real life", outside the dreamscape. Cut off before his time, poor lamb!

Because I feel I've only had a few episodes' worth of meat so far (feels like I've watched maybe 4 episodes in total, in terms of the ground that's been covered) I find it hard to g et an overview really. Some interesting threads have been laid, and I think my major crits or plaudits will depend on how everything's tied together. So, if they deal well with the Buffy/Faith/Giles/Gigi situation, and if the ultimate BB, and the Twilight story are well treated, then I'll probably come out of it all with my thumbs up and my face grinning?but if it turns into another season 7, with lots of feeble tyings-up and vagueness, I will not be a happy bunny.

I'm concerned, though not yet critical, about the balance of standalone and arc stories?feel worried that having too many "special" stories will mean that the arc doesn't get into its stride and won't get enough development. But, that's just something ?I'm worried about as a possibility, it's not a fully-formed criticism yet!

I should probably add that I LOVE comics so I'm probably biased. Though which direction I'm biased in, not clear...because "you always hurt the one you love" so perhaps I'm harsher on these comics because I love the medium? Or perhaps I let them off easy because I'm so loving the idea of canon Buffy comics? I'll leave that to you guys to decide

[sueworld]

Very nice post wolfie. You make some good points there.

I'm sorry. But I thought the post I quoted was your own beliefs and not that of others, if it wasn't then I'm sorry but you did make it appear as so.

Oh I do share that reviewers concerns. Not all, but the majority.

Thing is I can't get away from the fact that maybe I was expecting to much from this 'series', because when I first started to read them, lord was I disappointed.

I can honestly say that those first few issues did not seem like Buffy at all for me, and only now with these latest issues do I feel that initial attitude starting to fade.

I'm not going to go over yet more old ground about 'high tec' Buffy etc, but suffice to say I will carry on getting issues, for curiosity value if nothing else.

Maybe once things start 'hotting up and we finally get a few answers, then my enthusiasm for this product will return.

[Sosa lola]

I love the comics, but as I have complaints about the TV show, I sure have some about the comics:

1- Warren coming back from the dead. Why? What significance in that? Okay, I'm more about the fixing than whining about something that happened. I hope the writers have something interesting to do with skinless Warren that will justify Amy bringing him back.

2- Willow as a whole. I was pleased with Willow in the latest issue, finally wearing jeans and less of a Witch. Yes, she's one but she never thought she should look like one. I dislike the way she flies all the time, and, to say the truth, I was becoming less interested in Willow since S5. I'm just not interested in magic and witches, they make things easier and less challenging.

3- Giant Dawn. I hope she shrinks back as soon as possible.

4- Bringing back older villains. Thankfully it has stopped since issue five. We want new Big Bads. Amy, Warren and Ethan were more than enough.

[Enisy]

Didn't Joss or Scott say that the new Big Bad is also a recurring character?

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Didn't Joss or Scott say that the new Big Bad is also a recurring character?

Did they? Gah! Unless it's someone REALLY cool, I will be miffed. But I reserve the right to bee impressed if it is a really clever choice of oldie.

[Nostalgia]

Yes they did.. I mentioned that before and someone questioned it..
still looking for the quote

[Sosa lola]

I hope not. As I said, I want new Big Bads. I can lay off The Long Way Home, because of the title. It's obvious it's about Buffy and home, and home means facing old big bads, which can work. But I want them to stop bringing back old characters and think of new ones.

The Big Bad is the guy in the cover of the 11th issue. He doesn't look like an old character, don't recognize him.

[KingofCretins]

I remember the interview, but not the specific quote. It was before 8.01 came out. Now that we're eight issues in, and I've thought more about it, it may not be the case that 'returning villain' and 'Big Bad' were shared concepts. We've already *had* returning villains that aren't the Big Bad, which to me leaves the door wide open to the chance that the new Big Bad is, in fact, an original character.

[ciderdrinker]

Whilst I agree that the Big Bad should be a new character - I would be very disappointed if Drusilla doesn't turn up again.

When I orignally heard that there was going to be an old enemy turn up I immediately thought it would be her. It was if she disappeared off the face of the earth, and was forgotten about in the TV shows. For such a loved and established character it seems entirely wrong that we don't find out some more about her and have some conclusion to her story (they did it with Darla after all).

I do quite like the idea of her being a big bad (not this big bad as I very much doubt she could be behind Twilight, and on the new cover it looks like a man) Stirring up old emotions for Buffy of both her vampire lovers is all gravy in my eyes.

My only real complaint about the comics has been the frustration of waiting so long between issues for such a short burst of story. It seems as if we're only a few episodes in and the comics have been running for over 6 months. I appreciate that they take a long while to write, draw, print and ship, but a month is a long time to wait for the 20-odd pages we get.

[Nostalgia]

Well for the standalones, there are 40 pages.. so it's a bit more to read. If you got the Chain, you would have noticed this.

[vampmogs]

I thought the recurring villian was supposed to be Amy who Joss was talking about. Did he specifically say Big Bad or the person who was returning in the first issue because he did say this at the time of 8.01?

[KingofCretins]

More tremendous success for Season 8

Amazon.com named the "The Long Way Home" trade paperback to it's Editor's Choice Top 10 comics of the year. The list is topped by the simply exquisite "Gunslinger Born" adaptation of Stephen King's "Wizard and Glass".

Amazon.com's Editor's Choice Top 10