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**vampmogs** · 10-10-07, 05:07 AM

Good idea to start a thread like this

If this is a spoiler and speculation thread I guess that means we don't have to use spoiler tags? I had already read this interview but it is great you linked it cause now we can discuss it.

Dracula returning is interesting. People often state that this is the first time we've seen Buffy since 'Chosen' in canon but in fact it is not. In 'Tales of the Vampires' we see Buffy and two other slayers face Drac who has made Xander his manservant. Since this is actually canon this has to mean that Buffy has faced Drac sometime between 'Chosen' and 'The Long Way Home' and Xander did as well. So when Drac appears wouldn't this have to be mentioned? By both Xander, Buffy and Drac? If it isn't than it puts doubts into the whole, this is canon thing for 'Tales of the Vampires.'

Two stand alones in a row is interesting, I didn't think they were ever going to do that. Does this mean we'll have a gap month between both? Or will there only be a gap month between Issue #9 and Issue #10. I really hope we don't have a gap moth between Issue #10 and #11 as well because a month is a very long time to have no Buffy! I'm very interested in both issues. Issue #10 sounds amazing, a Buffy and Willow centric episode with some Xander in there as well! What more could a fanboy ask for! And Issue #11 reveals who the big bad is. Allie said we already kind of knowing, so I'm guessing he means 'Twilight'? But more will be clear and revealed in this issue? Perhaps we will discover who is leading Twilight and where it comes from?

Some have speculated that Roden was the flying boots guy from 8.01 and it make sense, seeing the pictures of Buffy from that mission are in Gigi's wardrobe in 8.07 However, it is also possible that the leader of Twilight is the flying boots guy and passed on these images to Roden to aid him in getting Gigi on their side? Just a thought, though Roden does look like the likely suspect. I'll just be a little disapointed if it was Roden floating over that castle, or if Roden is actually the leader of Twilight

The next arc after Faith's sounds interesting.. Japan with vampires who had obtained special powers. Hmm.. hopefully they do something worthwhile with this, sounds very fanficy to me but I have faith they can make it work. Though I'm dying to have an arc again back at the BHC because I love that setting and want to see more of our new slayers and Buffy/Willow/Xander interacting with eachother.

The Angel/Spike news is kind of cool. I really hope when they come it is for a good reason other than just shippy bantering and I'd probably prefer to see Angel and Spike come at seperate times than together to avoid that. I'm assuming that Spike's arrival will be to make Buffy aware he is alive, or to reveal she knew all along but for some reason hasn't went to see him. I'm not sure what Angel's will be, making to talk about him taking over Wolfram and Hart or what has happened to LA as a result of his plan? Or perhaps just shippiness.

**KingofCretins** · 10-10-07, 07:15 AM

If Angel and Spike do come back mainly or even primarily to be 'shipped, I will probably give birth to a cat. It would pretty much completely undermine every Angel and Spike character development point from Season 5 of Angel, for one thing. For another, bigger thing, it would basically pin Buffy right back to where she was a few years ago for herself. That didn't seem to be the point of Season 8. If she doesn't end up with Xander, that's fine, a little unfair, but fine, but please, please don't let even more seasons of Buffy be defined by Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike, or a triangle formed.

"Tales of the Slayers" and "Tales of the Vampires" are in canon limbo. Their basic status is that they are presumptively canon, but are only canon unless contradicted. Which places them above the original Dark Horse series and Buffy novels, but below Seasons 1 through 8. I'd say they are about the same status as "Origins" is.

**vampmogs** · 10-10-07, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

If Angel and Spike do come back mainly or even primarily to be 'shipped, I will probably give birth to a cat. It would pretty much completely undermine every Angel and Spike character development point from Season 5 of Angel, for one thing. For another, bigger thing, it would basically pin Buffy right back to where she was a few years ago for herself. That didn't seem to be the point of Season 8. If she doesn't end up with Xander, that's fine, a little unfair, but fine, but please, please don't let even more seasons of Buffy be defined by Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike, or a triangle formed.

Agreed. Besides why have a whole comic devoting to shipping when we have very few precious panels available? Obviously their feelings haven't just disapeared and it will play some part, but there are far more interesting things to do with the characters. As for example, the conflict between both sides about taking over Wolfram and Hart. I'd much rather have that dealt with than who Buffy loves more blah blah blah

Personally, I'd hope that when Angel and Spike come back it is done to serve Buffy's story, I'm not even sure that would mean squabbling about Wolfram and Hart. I'd rather it have something to do with Twilight or Dana, something like that.

"Tales of the Slayers" and "Tales of the Vampires" are in canon limbo. Their basic status is that they are presumptively canon, but are only canon unless contradicted. Which places them above the original Dark Horse series and Buffy novels, but below Seasons 1 through 8. I'd say they are about the same status as "Origins" is.

But Joss has wrote some stories in both comics, so doesn't that kind of mean they must be canon? I'm really not sure. I know Whedon didn't write the Drac tale but that doesn't mean it isn't canon I suppose. I think all will be revealed, but you make a good point.

**Vampire in Rug** · 10-10-07, 10:45 PM

I'm pretty sure I remember a quote from Scott Allie saying that he considers all Buffy comics written by Joss to be canon. Remember how Fray's scythe showed up in season 7? Aslo, all the slayers from Tales of the Slayers showed up in The Chain (the scene where "Decoy Buffy" is Chosen). I think that the Tales of the Vampires story with Dracula is deffinetly canon, and there'll be some reference to it in Season 8. Scot said that he wouldn't include Fray, TotS, or TotV in the Omnibus collections because he considered them to be more of a lead in to season 8 than anything to do with the old comics.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 06:04 AM

Yeah I was just scanning some boards and someone posted a quick little interview with Allie and they brought up the Drac story with Xander and Buffy and wether or not it will be brought up when Drac returns in s8. Allie said "you'll have to wait and see" with a smirk, so I'm not sure what that means exactly.

**ThePoet's<3** · 11-10-07, 06:15 AM

He did that at D*C when we tried to pin him down about seeing Spike again. His face said "Yes" but his mouth said, "I can't really say anything about that". (Somebody get this man a deck of cards!)

you know there was also some speculation that the Flyiing Boots guy was Dracula!! Remember? So, maybe he's working with Twilight? He's worked with some rough characters in the past (Hitler in Spike vs Dracula) so I could see that happening

I do need to get TOTV!! I have Fray and TOTS. Fray is most excellent to me and I heard Joss is thinking about revisiting her story again. She was one of the best-drawn characters Joss has done. And yes - I can see how it would be a lead in to Season 8.

If all goes as the story is told - Slayer Inc. should "end" in the next few Seasons (However many Joss decides to do) of Buffy Comics. Because it all ends with one big battle and we don't know if the Slayer lives or not. We just know that no more Slayers are called again until Fray and her brother.

I think - if the story stays the same - it would be nice to see all the demons gone and Buffy actually living a "normal" life. Perhaps the timer on the cookies will go off and she will be "done".

KoC - MEOW!!!!! LOLOL!!! I don't think we will see shipping for a while. Maybe some playful banter between the 3 - Joss will toss a few 'Shipping bones to the 'Shippers. I do see him using them in a Slayer Inc./A-Team team-up against Twilight. But I just have this feeling he's going to turn the Vampires loose for a while to work on their own. Maybe he'll bring some 'Shippy stuff in towards the end of the whole Buffy Comic Series - kinda like in Season 7. But I can see him throwing a bone to all the 'Shippers who write Allie and ask him when they will see Spike or Angel.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3 View Post

He did that at D*C when we tried to pin him down about seeing Spike again. His face said "Yes" but his mouth said, "I can't really say anything about that". (Somebody get this man a deck of cards!)

It is all terribly vauge, it annoys me!

you know there was also some speculation that the Flyiing Boots guy was Dracula!! Remember? So, maybe he's working with Twilight? He's worked with some rough characters in the past (Hitler in Spike vs Dracula) so I could see that happening

I do need to get TOTV!! I have Fray and TOTS. Fray is most excellent to me and I heard Joss is thinking about revisiting her story again. She was one of the best-drawn characters Joss has done. And yes - I can see how it would be a lead in to Season 8.

If all goes as the story is told - Slayer Inc. should "end" in the next few Seasons (However many Joss decides to do) of Buffy Comics. Because it all ends with one big battle and we don't know if the Slayer lives or not. We just know that no more Slayers are called again until Fray and her brother.

I think this may be the grim future that Willow and Buffy see in Issue 10#.

I think - if the story stays the same - it would be nice to see all the demons gone and Buffy actually living a "normal" life. Perhaps the timer on the cookies will go off and she will be "done".

What is interesting about this is that that no slayer was called because all magics and demons left this dimension. I'm inclined to think that this happened because a part of a slayer is a demon essence, and therefore no longer were they created because that demon essence would have left as well. If this is the case does that mean Angel and Spike will be banished from this dimension as well, or will only the demon parts of them leave since they still have souls, perhaps making them both human?

**NileQT87** · 11-10-07, 06:25 AM

if all the demons disappear... that will have to include angel and spike. thus, they are even relevant going into fray.

so there's a few options:
* all slayers lose their powers (essentially, that's killing the demon essence in the slayer line) and all demons are killed (incl. angel, spike, illyria, etc...).
* all slayers lose their powers and angel and/or spike get humanized.
* angel and spike become the only demons... in that case, what a way to bring fray into the super-official show canon rather than a distant side-story if she meets any of the characters who are immortals. fray would never run into the scoobies... but if this were the case, there are a few characters that could make it to her time period due to immortality.

**ThePoet's<3** · 11-10-07, 06:35 AM

Good point about Angel and Spike! Hhhmmm... They would both need to be humanized!

I'm more interested in however what type of "non-vampire-y" powers the upcoming vampires might have?? What do you get from the term "non-vampire-y"?

Powers... Their powers would be - strength, healing (from injuries), immortallity, speed, what else?

What would be considered a power that's not of a vampire - that would be detrimental to Slayer Inc? Do you think this will be a negative power or a positive power?

I've often wanted there to be more than two en-souled vampires... Could there be?? That would sure put a kink in the works!!

**KingofCretins** · 11-10-07, 06:38 AM

I'm still hoping that Joss isn't going to punt the storytelling in Season 8 and Season 9 as a de factor "prequel trilogy" to Fray. The events that lead to Fray don't actually *have* to happen in the current generation of characters.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 06:40 AM

Well really it could mean anything. They could breathe fire, fly, teleport, melt

just think of Heroes and I'm sure we could think of many more! It could have endless possibilities and I'm guessing they are powers that are a threat to many people which is why the Scoobs go there to sort it out.

I get the feeling Buffy won't be going to Japan as well, not entirley sure about Willow. We know Xander is going and I think I heard Dawn is going somehow but I'm not sure where, but I doubt either would go alone without some slayer back up because it sounds like a pretty dangerous mission. Perhaps some of Buffy's Alpha team? Perhaps Renee? Now that'd be interesting.

**KingofCretins** · 11-10-07, 06:52 AM

I've got to assume Satsu will be going; she is japanese, seems pretty odd that they wouldn't write her into it. Her name is actually a japanese term for cop, which I think is nifty.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

I've got to assume Satsu will be going; she is japanese, seems pretty odd that they wouldn't write her into it. Her name is actually a japanese term for cop, which I think is nifty.

Ah very cool didn't know that. Well yeah I guess that makes sense, I just wasn't sure how far Buffy's Alpha team would stray from their leader. Though in 'The Chain' it appears Satsu was one of the slayers leaping down into the underground after decoyBuffy was killed so I guess they don't have to be too close to the real Buffy at all times.

**KingofCretins** · 11-10-07, 06:58 AM

Yep, that is definitely Alpha Team leading the unfortunate back-up mission for the decoy.

I'd love to see more of the new character interacting outside their normal spheres -- Alpha Team without Buffy, Renee without Xander (they did a good job of that in 8.07), maybe have them interact on their own.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

Yep, that is definitely Alpha Team leading the unfortunate back-up mission for the decoy.

I'd love to see more of the new character interacting outside their normal spheres -- Alpha Team without Buffy, Renee without Xander (they did a good job of that in 8.07), maybe have them interact on their own.

Yeah that would be nice, I especially loved the scene between Satsu, Rowena and Leah (plus some slayers in background) in Issue #4 talking about Buffy's decision to have Satsu as her fighting partner. More of that stuff would be great to see, which surprises me given I loathed pretty much ever scene with the potentials in s7.

Renee is a character who really interests me. I think it may have been you I was talking about this a while back, saying that perhaps Renee has no other real friends in the BHC which is why she has latched onto Xander? Something about her makes me think she is kind of like an outcast, a little like Willow, who just had trouble getting to know others.

**KingofCretins** · 11-10-07, 07:22 AM

Mogs, not to pimp myself too shamelessly, but I actually dealt with bits of Renee's role in my most recent Season 8 fic, "Protective Orders". I think you'd like it, it has bearing on some of the long discussions on other thread, namely those about "Damage".

I don't assume Renee is an outcast in general, but I wonder if she might have isolated herself by 1) being more interested in the tactical/administrative part of their organization than in fighting and/or 2) being more interested in... Xander. There were hints that her crush is the subject of humor with people that know her, and presumably there aren't more than 50 or so Slayers at the BHC, plus Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Dawn.

**vampmogs** · 11-10-07, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post

Mogs, not to pimp myself too shamelessly, but I actually dealt with bits of Renee's role in my most recent Season 8 fic, "Protective Orders". I think you'd like it, it has bearing on some of the long discussions on other thread, namely those about "Damage".

I shall give it a read then, I love it when fanfics directly deal with things people have talked about in the forums, sounds very good. I've began a fanfic but not finished it, which has Renee as an outcast who the other potentials are mean to, but that was actually the last scene I wrote and haven't come back to it in weeks now.

I don't assume Renee is an outcast in general, but I wonder if she might have isolated herself by 1) being more interested in the tactical/administrative part of their organization than in fighting and/or 2) being more interested in... Xander. There were hints that her crush is the subject of humor with people that know her, and presumably there aren't more than 50 or so Slayers at the BHC, plus Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Dawn.

I felt that it was a subject of humor as well, which made me wonder if people mock her or are just having fun with her. Kind of that whole, are you laughing with me or at me kinda deal? I'm not sure why I get the vibe exactly, mainly because when she was all injured she was sitting alone whilst in the background everyone else was comforting eachother, only Xander went up to her from what we saw. And because we've never really seen her interact with any other slayer except the one who was joking around about her love for "Mr Harris" which could be seen as a laughing at her or a laughing with her situation.

**CanadianBtVSFan** · 14-10-07, 05:29 PM

Spoilers section for Buffy Season 8 Comics

I was just thinking about Kennedy last night.

Since we know that Willow and Kennedy are taking their relationship slowly after the magical death incident...do we know if Kennedy is ever going to appear in season 8 for the comics? It would be nice to see her again.

**vampmogs** · 14-10-07, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by CanadianBtVSFan View Post

I was just thinking about Kennedy last night.

Since we know that Willow and Kennedy are taking their relationship slowly after the magical death incident...do we know if Kennedy is ever going to appear in season 8 for the comics? It would be nice to see her again.

Whilst I disagree that it'd ever be nice to see Kennedy again

I think she will def make an appearence in the comics. She is too important to Willow's story not to make an appearence and if Whedon is planning on bringing back characters like Riley, Spike and Angel who aren't currently tied to anyone of our characters anymore you bet he'll bring back Kennedy as well.

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Spoilers section for Buffy Season 8 Comics

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