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8.07 "No Future For You", Part II Discussion Thread

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  • #21
    Depends on how you're perceiving the images and text love. I know plenty of folk who think the same, so there ya go.

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    • #22
      It's not actually a subjective conversation. For there to be catfights, there has to be a fight. It is an objectively referable fact that there has not been. For there to have been 'scantily clad (Slayers) waving weapons around' as the tone of the season, it has to have actually happened. It is an objectively referable fact that it has not (unless you feel like nitpicking over Slayers in their pajamas with their hair in rollers busting in on Amy in Buffy's room).

      Where is the element of interpretation there? It would be like 'interpreting' that Buffy wears a pink tu-tu when she and Satsu went to rescue Willow.
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      • #23
        There has been nothing to show anyone having a cat fight. If anyone looks at the images and text presented and gets 'catfight' out of it I'm sorry to say but they have a screw loose. Furthermore, even if there is a catfight why would season eight be condemned for this when it happened in two televised seasons of the series? It is plain hypercritical, as is labelling the action as something only males would enjoy, when action has been a huge part of the show since 'Welcome to the Hellmouth' and the show has always had a big female fanbase. Just like there has always been hot women fighting and holding weapons from the very episode as well. It isn't logical to criticise season eight for things that have never happened or things that have always happened in the show.

        It is basically like me saying that I hated season six because it just consisted of cat fights... when it didn't have any.. or saying I hated season five because it had vampires in it... even though every season of the series has. Where is the logic in either case?
        Last edited by vampmogs; 24-09-07, 04:53 PM.

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        • #24
          Well since you asked..
          Spoiler:
          It's not actually a subjective conversation.
          Oh yes it is love. We all perceive things differently, it's mankind's way I'm afraid.



          It was images like this first splash page got my back up right from the start. Not skimpy I suppose in the traditional sense but it's still the old image of young 'tooled up chick' with (of all things) a what appears to be some kind of huge handgun. Something Buffy hated. To quote her from the show "Nothing ever good comes from these"

          You just know the scenes of all the Potentials having one huge fight in front of Giles's balcony (I mean why, what kind of training is it involves such a fight 'on mass'. I'm amazed Giles could see what half of them were doing, let alone make valued judgments on their performances) which you knew was mainly there for *cough* 'effect'.

          As to the rest of this series, well I thought I'd quote one of my friends reviews of it as she knows how to get to the heart of the matter far better then I...


          In general, the whole thing is then just a bit too much like a fanboy-dream to me. The cat-suits, the cool-Nick-Fury-Xander commanding his army of nubile girls from the command center, the big guns and explosions, and so on. Honestly, I'd rather read a S8 where they all just sat in Giles' kitchen talking and drinking tea for 50 issues. Joss has said that the comic will have set-pieces that would have been impossible to do on tv with Buffy's effects budget, but the thing is, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to actually do it. Especially if the motivation for doing it seems to be "wouldn't it be cool, if..."

          The first issue was "Meh", the second was "What the hell, Joss?" and now we're back to the "Meh". With a healthy side-order of "What the hell, Joss".

          I'll try to be short this time because basically my complaints are pretty much the same as with the last two issues.

          The pace has picked up, so instead of the "meander, meander, meander, ZOMBIES!" we now get Buffy in some freaking dreamspace with Ethan, no, wait, she's awake, hang on, what about the zombies? who cares, XANDER IS COOL, deus ex dawn, bonding, bonding, IT'S A TRAP!!! It was more entertaining than the last two issues, but I had to read the comic twice to just keep track with who all the characters were.

          Of course, the fact that the art is just getting worse did not help. I wouldn't have recognised Giles if he hadn't been cleaning his glasses, I kept confusing Willow and Dawn (even though she's a giant!) and the first time I read the story, I thought Andrew and Ethan were the same character. Oh, and speaking of art...

          The scene with Andrew, the one where he's in a room full of half-naked slayers? There one with the slayer with the huge breasts wearing a teddy bear thong? Do I even need to continue? *headdesk*

          And no, this is not the same as naked Angel and Spike in Buffy's dream. Even though there Spike and Angel are objects of Buffy's wet dream, they, unlike the slayer with the big breasts and the teddy bear thong have actual identities beyond the fact that they're sexy. In fact, I'd say it's Buffy with her nurse's outfit who becomes the sex object (for the readers) in that image the same way she was sexualised in the panel where she trashed on the bed in the sexy negligee in the previous issue.


          Moving on...

          Xander still feels out-of-character to me as well. Sure, most of his macho-posturing is played for jokes, but he's still feeling more and more like a Gary Stu in every issue. And I meant it when I said that all I want is that Xander keeps his pants on - and this includes the slayer-girl-whatever-her-name-is he's comforting and who, I suspect, could end up as his love-interest (because I still believe that Joss wouldn't pair Buffy up with Xander... please...)

          And Buffy... is barely there. And the thing is, I know a lot of people complain that Buffy was too much about the women and that the men on the show were oh-so-oppressed, but to that I all I can say is: "Who the hell cares". It was Buffy's show, and having one show where women are the focus and men get sidelined is just a refreshing change. I mean just look at Angel, for crying out loud - every single woman on that show ended up dead or evil or both. Giles and Xander really had nothing to complain about. Buffy, on the other hand has everything to complain here - reduced to a sidekick and a damsel in distress in her own comic and with the most important thing about her being who she sleeps with.

          The fanboy sexism aside, I just realised what's my biggest problem with the comic - the pacing. And not just because of the jerkiness of the storytelling, but also the way that the comics manage to ruin one of the Buffyverse trademark jokes.

          I've often said that one of the best things about Jossverse is how ME played with the viewers. For example, there is a scene where Angel walks into a building uninvited, and the exact moment your brain goes "Wait a minute, how was Angel able to get in?", one of the characters says what you're thinking. Or in "Killer in Me" when Spike says "Who're you gonna call", and then adds "That phrase is never going to be useable again" the exact moment your brain goes "Ghoostbusters!" With the comic, that's not happening. We have the "What the hell" moment, with Buffy kissing Xander, for example, but there is no pay-off until a month later. It's the same thing that was wrong with the "Is Giles the First" plotline in season S7 - the pay-off should have come the moment you started trying to remember if Giles had actually touched anything.

          I liked the "Ghoostbusters"-gotcha because it didn't distract from the story. Now, all the shipper-fanwanking feels just like cleverness for the sake of cleverness, and I wish that Joss would just get over it and start doing what he does best: writing good stories.

          Also, the Initiative, Amy, Warren, and Ethan? I thought we already did the Best of Buffy villains with the First Evil.

          In conclusion: Dear Brian Lynch, please write AtS S6 soon. Thank you.

          And everyone who hasn't already, go buy Lynch's Spike: Asylum. It is good.

          Last edited by sueworld; 24-09-07, 09:54 PM.

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          • #25
            At least season 8 is more enjoyable than season 7. God, I hated S7! The writers siding with Spuffy and ruining all the other characters in favor of Spuffy and Spuffy fans. Sorry, but a season where all the main characters are respected and used feels much more like Buffy than S7, which I assume was written by a 13 year old Spuffy writer, especially the last five episodes.
            Last edited by Sosa lola; 24-09-07, 09:39 PM.
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            • #26
              Ha, I have no objection to 'the Spuffy' angle, just the potentials and Andrew, both of which managed to suck precious screen time form the likes of Xander and co.

              Also the fact that unlike previous seasons Joss left plot holes big enough to drive a tank through in the last half of the season.
              Last edited by sueworld; 24-09-07, 09:55 PM.

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              • #27
                sueworld--

                here's the thing. you get on season 8 btvs for being out-of-character or too comic fanboy-oriented... yet, you are vehemently supporting brian lynch, who i've gotten nothing but egotistical vibes from (and he CAN'T write angel's voice at all!) who is living out all his fanboy dreams of being more interested in monsters, fight scenes, demon prostitutes with curvy figures, etc... (com'on. count the amount of closeups of angel in comparison to the dragon and all the demons), unlike the way the writers have approached season 8 of btvs, which is FAR more like the shows.

                it sounds a lot like you are putting down on season 8 a lot because you're a brian lynch fan, and you'll note the reactions here to season 8 have been a lot more positive than they have been to the way he's doing ats season 6 (and believe me, angel is my favorite character, spike is my third favorite after wesley, and i'm far more of an ats fan--yet, i'm saying season 8 is better).

                here's the thing. joss and whoever is writing the faith arc--they clearly know these shows. they know the style, the speech pattern, the artists are being told to not live out their fanboy fantasies and filling up all the panels with as many busty women and monsters as they can get away with (the amount that angel is getting snubbed by urru in favor of overdrawn demons in the comic is just awful--angel's only decent closeup looks more like a copy of a promo shot than being in the action), etc... joss telling the artists to not sexualize the slayers, to obviously make sure that the actors/actresses aren't overly enhanced to ridiculous proportions--willow's widow's peak is still there, despite the history of buffy/angel comics being it conspicuously absent with as much cordelia as they could possibly put in every frame, even when angel is the main character or some such. the one curvy illyria cover is infamous.

                brian lynch strikes me as more a person more into making his own mark (his own characters, certainly not caring about how he writes the character's voices) than living and breathing joss' world. on top of it, he certainly hasn't mastered the art of the joss "undercut", which clearly whoever wrote the faith arc has down as well as joss does, if not better. brian also needs to pay attention to the shows--understanding wolfram & hart would be a good start, because he clearly doesn't.

                it's quite clear that the best line of his writing was a direct quote from "city of..." that's actually kind of sad. the rest of the dialog is a boring mess that doesn't fit with angel's voice.

                less demon broads and monsters, more character-focus. correct speech patterns and keeping the style of the shows intact. that's the difference between lynch's writing and joss'/the faith arc guy's.

                neither of the drawing styles are all that great, but at least the btvs comics have the characters being the stars of the comic in almost every frame. urru makes angel utterly irrelevant in his own story.

                if that's brian lynch's style--that's yet another reason not to touch asylum and shadow puppets (the latter of which i think is a complete travesty to understanding professional writing vs. bad fanfiction--the episode itself was on shaky grounds for ats, but making spike into a puppet, too? that's the kind of thing a 13 year old would write as a badfic parody.).

                if you want to see well-done, in-character examples of non-joss-written btvs/ats comics, look up "numb" from tales of the vampires #5... that's something that was done while truly understanding the show. that's just about the only non-joss comic story i ever wished was ON the show--it's the one with dead-jenny calendar and angelus/angel. whoever that was--i wish he was writing ats season 6 instead of lynch.

                it's quite clear that joss is affiliated with the angel comics in name only, whereas his mark is all over the buffy ones. and it's a bloody awful shame. the angel comics need a complete overhaul, STAT. and i was way more excited for the angel ones originally.
                Last edited by NileQT87; 24-09-07, 10:11 PM.

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                • #28
                  It was images like this first splash page got my back up right from the start. Not skimpy I suppose in the traditional sense but it's still the old image of young 'tooled up chick' with (of all things) a what appears to be some kind of gun. Something Buffy hated. To quote her from the show "Nothing ever good comes from these"
                  Not skimpy in any sense of the word -- again, there are such things as objective facts. The Slayers on that raid are all wearing tactical and reasonable apparel. If you honestly think that Jeanty is drawing the female figure in an unreasonably overdeveloped way... stop and pick up *any* other comic next time you're in the store. And, the reason Buffy is carrying that device with no complaint is that it is made obvious, on the first panel of the *next page*, that it's not a weapon, let alone a firearm -- it was a device to penetrate the forcefield around the castle they were landing on.

                  You just know the scenes of all the Potentials having one huge fight in front of Giles's balcony (I mean why, what kind of training is it involves such a fight 'on mass'. I'm amazed Giles could see what half of them were doing, let alone make valued judgments on their performances) which you knew was mainly there for 'effect.
                  So... instead of the training scene that it explicitly was, it was a giant catfight? With bokken? What 'effect' was it supposed to have other than depicting training? I'm sorry, it's preposterous to suggest that scene was included to titillate in anyway. Might as well say that the scene of Buffy eating a sandwich was designed to promote bulemia.

                  As to the rest of this series, well I thought I'd quote one of my friends reviews of it as she knows how to get to the heart of the matter far better then I...
                  Or, you can post this:

                  In general, the whole thing is then just a bit too much like a fanboy-dream to me. The cat-suits, the cool-Nick-Fury-Xander commanding his army of nubile girls from the command center, the big guns and explosions, and so on. Honestly, I'd rather read a S8 where they all just sat in Giles' kitchen talking and drinking tea for 50 issues. Joss has said that the comic will have set-pieces that would have been impossible to do on tv with Buffy's effects budget, but the thing is, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to actually do it. Especially if the motivation for doing it seems to be "wouldn't it be cool, if..."

                  The first issue was "Meh", the second was "What the hell, Joss?" and now we're back to the "Meh". With a healthy side-order of "What the hell, Joss".

                  I'll try to be short this time because basically my complaints are pretty much the same as with the last two issues.

                  The pace has picked up, so instead of the "meander, meander, meander, ZOMBIES!" we now get Buffy in some freaking dreamspace with Ethan, no, wait, she's awake, hang on, what about the zombies? who cares, XANDER IS COOL, deus ex dawn, bonding, bonding, IT'S A TRAP!!! It was more entertaining than the last two issues, but I had to read the comic twice to just keep track with who all the characters were.

                  Of course, the fact that the art is just getting worse did not help. I wouldn't have recognised Giles if he hadn't been cleaning his glasses, I kept confusing Willow and Dawn (even though she's a giant!) and the first time I read the story, I thought Andrew and Ethan were the same character. Oh, and speaking of art...

                  The scene with Andrew, the one where he's in a room full of half-naked slayers? There one with the slayer with the huge breasts wearing a teddy bear thong? Do I even need to continue? *headdesk*

                  And no, this is not the same as naked Angel and Spike in Buffy's dream. Even though there Spike and Angel are objects of Buffy's wet dream, they, unlike the slayer with the big breasts and the teddy bear thong have actual identities beyond the fact that they're sexy. In fact, I'd say it's Buffy with her nurse's outfit who becomes the sex object (for the readers) in that image the same way she was sexualised in the panel where she trashed on the bed in the sexy negligee in the previous issue.
                  Okay, so basically most of this is a rant by someone illiterate in the pacing of the comic genre. Stuff happens faster in a comic than on TV. They might wish to notice that each issue is 32 pages and an average of 6 panels. That means that, every issue, a complete story, including any exposition, character development, conflict, and action has to be depicted in approximately 192 panels, at most.

                  The charges about the sexuality are likewise ridiculous -- as I already explained, Joss, in his scriptnotes, made sure to instruct Georges against over sexualizing the strip poker scene. And, compared to the industry standard, it wasn't sexual at all.

                  I enjoyed the doubletalk about why it's okay to see shirtless Angel and Spike, though

                  Moving on...

                  Xander still feels out-of-character to me as well. Sure, most of his macho-posturing is played for jokes, but he's still feeling more and more like a Gary Stu in every issue. And I meant it when I said that all I want is that Xander keeps his pants on - and this includes the slayer-girl-whatever-her-name-is he's comforting and who, I suspect, could end up as his love-interest (because I still believe that Joss wouldn't pair Buffy up with Xander... please...)

                  And Buffy... is barely there. And the thing is, I know a lot of people complain that Buffy was too much about the women and that the men on the show were oh-so-oppressed, but to that I all I can say is: "Who the hell cares". It was Buffy's show, and having one show where women are the focus and men get sidelined is just a refreshing change. I mean just look at Angel, for crying out loud - every single woman on that show ended up dead or evil or both. Giles and Xander really had nothing to complain about. Buffy, on the other hand has everything to complain here - reduced to a sidekick and a damsel in distress in her own comic and with the most important thing about her being who she sleeps with.
                  Yeah, even before I read this far I knew this was posted by an irrational Xander hater. It's become so bad that completely baseless "Gary Stu" accusations fly around merely because he's shown to be competent at any level. I mean, how useful can someone's analysis be who's only wish for the character is that he doesn't get a love interest?

                  As for Buffy being "barely there", clearly this is someone who didn't read Issue #4 or decided that they just didn't care when they were proven wrong. We've already seen Buffy in two substantial battles, dominating both times, we've seen her instructing Slayers, we've seen her being closer to her best friends than she was shown in the last two televised seasons. She is not a cipher in her own series to anyone who is reading it.

                  In conclusion: Dear Brian Lynch, please write AtS S6 soon. Thank you.
                  Go have your friend check out the covers for Issue #2 of "Angel: After the Fall" and come back and explain about the imaginary 'fanboy sexism' in Season 8.

                  Honestly, it was a lot of words to answer the question of 'scantily clad Slayers' and 'catfights', but not a lick of it substantive.
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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                    Well since you asked..
                    Spoiler:


                    Oh yes it is love. We all perceive things differently, it's mankind's way I'm afraid.



                    It was images like this first splash page got my back up right from the start. Not skimpy I suppose in the traditional sense but it's still the old image of young 'tooled up chick' with (of all things) a what appears to be some kind of huge handgun. Something Buffy hated. To quote her from the show "Nothing ever good comes from these"

                    You just know the scenes of all the Potentials having one huge fight in front of Giles's balcony (I mean why, what kind of training is it involves such a fight 'on mass'. I'm amazed Giles could see what half of them were doing, let alone make valued judgments on their performances) which you knew was mainly there for *cough* 'effect'.

                    As to the rest of this series, well I thought I'd quote one of my friends reviews of it as she knows how to get to the heart of the matter far better then I...
                    Honey, I'll safely say that I'm on your side. I, for one, have not been impressed by these comics. Mind you, it's nice to have Buffy back - even if only in comic form - but each issue really does leave me yearning for something else. Some kind of...OOMPH! And I most definitely agree that it seems as if Joss is just doing the stuff he's dreamed of doing [giant!Dawn, magic-fights (albeit, I'd have LOVED to have seen this on TV), etc...] but it's not GOOD, in my opinion. Especially the giant!Dawn story. In my eyes, it's very weak and amateur and beneath Joss' amazing ability to write/produce/create fantastic stories.

                    These comics just...they're not what I wanted for Season 8. I love Buffy - not as much as a lot of people here (most of whom know I prefer Angel to Buffy) - but this Season 8 comic series is making me lose a lot of interest in any form of continuation of the series.

                    I much would've prefered sticking to virtual seasons (fan-written seasons, for those who do not know) or holding out hope for that off-chance we'd get a movie than to have to accept these comics as official canon in the Buffyverse.

                    That's just my opinion, though.

                    EDIT: And I'd like to add that that review you quoted, hun, was fantastic and spot-on with my views of the comics. I was nodding along as I read because I agreed with so much of it. Thanks for sharing.
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                    • #30
                      I agree. Andrew and Slayer Jr also took quite the screen time. At least now, everyone gets to have a role. Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles all of them have big roles. Those four matter to me the most, so I'm pleased.

                      I don't get the whole Buffy didn't have much to do in these comics. She had more panels than anyone in the first four issues. She was the one who opened the first scene, she was the one with the hard missions, she was the one we visited her dream space, she was the one Ethan asked for help, she was the one who saved Willow, she was the one the first arc ended with.

                      What more do fans want? They want Buffy to always look good and never be in trouble? I'm sorry, but that'll make her boring Superman. I like the fact that Buffy might lose a battle or be in trouble, that makes it more believable. If she's Superman all the time, then she'll be a one dimensional, boring hero.

                      I'm with you on the giant!Dawn dislike. I wish something good comes out of it. I'm also not hot on Willow's character, and Warren's return.

                      Other than that, still enjoying. I like Buffy, Xander, Satsu, Leah, Giles and even Faith (who I didn't care about on the show) a lot in season 8. I'm glad they kept Giles like his S7 persona, that was a good continuity, even though it's sad to see him quite alone.
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                      • #31
                        at least giant-dawn wasn't done for kicks like making "elliot/puff" the dragon into a 'confused' wolfram & hart employee (haha) that was w&h's biggest unleashed weapon from a hell dimension meant to crush angel & co. it was done just because the writer/artist had more interest in the dragon than angel.

                        giant-dawn actually serves a purpose of making dawn's issues of feeling neglected come out. her super-sizing is pure ALLEGORY to her problems and issues.

                        the dragon has no allegory other than being fanboy cool.

                        it's one thing to have buffy dreaming about her exes, and another for spike to willingly allow himself to be a sex object again (now, *that*'s out of character).
                        Last edited by NileQT87; 24-09-07, 10:14 PM.

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                        "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                        • #32
                          Well, Superman has been selling a lot of comics for decades, he can't be that boring -- but Buffy isn't supposed to be Superman, nor has she been presented as such. She's simply been the unambiguous star of her own series so far.

                          So far, I like Willow (inclusive of 8.07 preview) in this series. I have been sort of expecting that she would become a much more, I dunno, distant type of person as she has grown more powerful *and* learned to control it. And, I like Giant Dawn because of it's throwback to the old metaphor scheme, although I'll be more interested in her character once she's back to normal. I like Satsu and Renee, and I really want more Leah, but Rowena has been pretty nondescript so far.
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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Sosa lola View Post
                            What more do fans want? They want Buffy to always look good and never be in trouble? I'm sorry, but that'll make her boring Superman. I like the fact that Buffy might lose a battle or be in trouble, that makes it more believable. If she's Superman all the time, then she'll be a one dimensional, boring hero.

                            I'm with you on the giant!Dawn dislike. I wish something good comes out of it. I'm also not hot on Willow's character, and Warren's return.
                            Now, I do believe that the storylines they're having for Season 8 are pretty damn good (most notably the current Faith one) but to me, they are not being written very well or to their fullest potential. There's a lot missing, in my eyes, and I'm not impressed by it.

                            I agree that Buffy as a one-dimensional and boring hero is undesirable. I really do. And I think this is the one thing I disagree with sueworld about: Buffy's role. She does seem to have a big role compared to Season 7. But I don't think her parts are being written to their highest capacity.

                            Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                            at least giant-dawn wasn't done for kicks like making "elliot/puff" the dragon into a 'confused' wolfram & hart employee (haha)--that was w&h's biggest unleashed weapon from a hell dimension meant to crush angel & co.--just because the writer/artist had more interest in the dragon than angel.

                            giant-dawn actually serves a purpose of making dawn's issues of feeling neglected come out.

                            the dragon has no allegory other than being fanboy cool.
                            I'm not pumped about Angel Season 6, either. At the moment, I'm unimpressed by Angel Season 6 and by Buffy Season 8 that I just might give up completely and just pop back in occasionally for the brief read of an issue. I don't know.

                            But I strongly believe that these writers aren't doing their best with these stories. And it upsets me to take this in as canon.

                            And the art isn't very impressive. There are SO many other comics out there with great art in them but...these Buffy ones look like amateurs or fans drew them. And it does seem to be getting worse as the issues progress. Now, that can't be said about the cover art - which TOTALLY gets better with each issue and continues to give me chills. But yeah.
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                            • #34
                              If it's any reassurance, it's the nature of comics to turn over artists pretty regularly -- Jeanty probably won't always be pencilling this book. However, Buffy is pretty unique in needing to get the penciller approved by various real people with likeness rights (SMG, for instance). I prefer Jeanty's pencils to Paul Lee (who pencilled "The Chain").

                              Most of the elite artists would probably get blasted as being too sexualized with female characters.

                              I'd love to see Jo Chen actually do an entire issue in her style, or for them to splurge and bring on Alex Ross to paint an issue.
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                              • #35
                                Mind you, it's nice to have Buffy back - even if only in comic form - but each issue really does leave me yearning for something else. Some kind of...OOMPH! And I most definitely agree that it seems as if Joss is just doing the stuff he's dreamed of doing [giant!Dawn, magic-fights (albeit, I'd have LOVED to have seen this on TV), etc...] but it's not GOOD, in my opinion. Especially the giant!Dawn story. In my eyes, it's very weak and amateur and beneath Joss' amazing ability to write/produce/create fantastic stories.

                                These comics just...they're not what I wanted for Season 8. I love Buffy - not as much as a lot of people here (most of whom know I prefer Angel to Buffy) - but this Season 8 comic series is making me lose a lot of interest in any form of continuation of the series.
                                Yeah, I agree with you love. It is good to have something new with the Buffy logo on it, I just wish I could will myself to ignore the poor writing and embrace it, but I just can't.

                                I do still intend to get the issues though as I said issue 8 seemed better, ironically enough I suspect because Joss isn't writing it.

                                Never thought I'd ever write that sentence.

                                I'm still hoping that things will continue to improve as other writers come over and get involved.

                                The dragon has no allegory other than being fanboy cool.
                                *g* He well may be, but I'll reserve my judgment till the series is actually out. You seem pretty sure though, are you privy to preview copy's then love?


                                Oh and NileQT87 I use the term 'love' a lot because I'm a English women of a 'certain age' and in my generation it's a word often used. It's not meant to be patronizing, and sorry if you seem to take it that way. Spike isn't the only person to favor it's usage you know. *g*
                                Last edited by sueworld; 24-09-07, 10:34 PM.

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                                • #36
                                  The Long Way Home is the first season 8 episode. BtVS is known for bad season openers. The Faith arc is more interesting, I fully agree. I also liked the fifth issue, showing Giles and the Scoobies in bad light. I love when things get so gray. I'm enjoying Buffy's character much more in the comics than in S7, and Xander FINALLY gets to have a role. Giles has always had a special place in my heart. Willow... still not enjoying her character. She's just too powerful. It's like there's no limits. Then again, I wasn't much of a Willow fan ever since she got interested in magic. She's more interesting without it.
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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Sosa lola View Post
                                    Then again, I wasn't much of a Willow fan ever since she got interested in magic. She's more interesting without it.
                                    I've felt the same way lately. Willow and the magic have been partners for too long.

                                    I also had a problem with all the technical gear and equipment. While I understand why Joss wouldn't want to go back to basics, it wouldn't be boring if the writers and artists of S8 lightened up a little on the sci-fi. I knew the season was going to be done in comics, but I didn't think that it would be pure sci-fi all the way. That's not BtVS.

                                    I've noticed that sometimes a season of a show starts out slow and then gets good. Hopefully that'll be the case here, and this season will start to get good starting with #7.
                                    Insert witty quote here.

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                                    • #38
                                      Holy crap people on this forum are passionate! I was actually able to agree with sueworld to an extent until I read your further posts. I'm not a fan of all the slayers being all over the place, they threaten developing storylines for the scoobies.. or at least I'm worried they will. So far though I'm really happy that Xander/Willow/Buffy are more centre stage, rather then Spike this (and I love Spike), and Potentials that. I absolutely thought a giant Dawn was ridiculous! But now the metaphor has grown on me, much like when Angel became a puppet and I thought that would be horrible.

                                      One thing I really want people to have a look at is your panel posted from Issue 1, and look to the next pages, to see that Buffy is using this "gun" purely to get rid of the magical barrier, it is not a weapon. And I think this is further emphasized by Joss in Issue 2, when the slayer in Andrew's group wants to use guns.

                                      "You didn't listen to a word I said did you? - No Slayer uses guns. Ever." LWH pt2

                                      Anyways since I've cleared that up I was actually thinking that the way the girls are portrayed in season8 is realistic... they look more like Buffy did around season3, before SMG became a little too skinny sometimes. Women are full figured, not stick figures, and also not breasts and legs everywhere. The only image so far which made my eye twicth was Faith on Chen's cover of #6.. but still, it was such a cool cover I got over it. I guess.
                                      Last edited by alexa; 25-09-07, 11:43 AM. Reason: stupidity :p
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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                                        Well since you asked
                                        It was images like this first splash page got my back up right from the start. Not skimpy I suppose in the traditional sense but it's still the old image of young 'tooled up chick' with (of all things) a what appears to be some kind of huge handgun. Something Buffy hated. To quote her from the show "Nothing ever good comes from these"
                                        I'm not going to repeat what everyone else has said about the gun because I think they've all made their point excellently but I don't see the objection of Buffy and the slayers wearing armour? It is a logical progression for Buffy to equip them up in this way and I fail to see how having Buffy in armour is anymore of a problem than having her carrying broad swoars and various weaponary throughout the seven years the show aired.

                                        You just know the scenes of all the Potentials having one huge fight in front of Giles's balcony (I mean why, what kind of training is it involves such a fight 'on mass'. I'm amazed Giles could see what half of them were doing, let alone make valued judgments on their performances) which you knew was mainly there for *cough* 'effect'.
                                        He was training them to see how they worked as a team, how they helped eachother. And seeing as they are in fact an army, with a large mass of girls it makes perfect sense that Giles would make them fight in a large group like this. The fight with the Zombies later in the issue clearly showed they sometimes do fight in mass so Giles' training was imperative. We also Buffy training them in smaller groups as well.. so again.. don't see your point.

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                                        • #40
                                          One thing I really want people to have a look at is your panel posted from Issue 1, and look to the next pages, to see that Buffy is using this "gun" purely to get rid of the magical barrier, it is not a weapon. And I think this is further emphasized by Joss in Issue 2, when the slayer in Andrew's group wants to use guns.
                                          Oh right thanks for that info. It still a shame that they chose to have it shaped like a large hi-tec gun though. Talk about giving the wrong impression eh.



                                          I still agree with the comments made by my friends review though. The hi-tec/fanboy overtones put me off, as well as the other issues she mentioned.


                                          vampmogs I'm more then willing to agree to disagree here about this series. As I said in an earlier comment we all see things differently, and mine and a few others elsewhere see things in another light. Thats not to say either view is wrong, just different thats all.



                                          I still intend to carry on buying the comics unless they get staggeringly bad, but on the evidence of the last issue (8) things are beginning to 'look up' a wee bit, so I'm more then willing to carry on reading and see if Joss has a few ideas up his sleeve that will surprise me in a good way.
                                          Last edited by sueworld; 25-09-07, 10:59 AM.

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