8.07 "No Future For You", Part II Discussion Thread

[KingofCretins]

I figured this should get posted, but since we'll be posting a discussion thread in a couple weeks anyway, might as well go ahead and start that. I figure we should just spoiler tag anything until the issue comes out.

The preview has been posted on Dark Horse, a whole six pages. Not all of it is "new" per se, well, you'll see, but it's pretty dang good.

Issue #7 Preview

Spoiler:

On one hand, I'm a bit disappointed to see three pages spent on flashbacks to what we saw on TV, but it is very well drawn by Jeanty, and I like Faith's narration.

LOVE seeing more Willow and Dawn stuff, and that Willow apparently is sticking around for the duration. As a bonus, Renee interacts with someone besides Xander

[vampmogs]

Hey thanks for posting this, it is really good!

Spoiler:

Yeah it is a bit of a bummer to see three pages of stuff we've already seen before but on the otherhand it offers us more insight into Faith's feelings about the past and it is neat to see old school Buffy in the new high tech realm of season eight. Shows the writers haven't forgotten where the series originated from.

I'm loving Willow sticking around, and it is good to see Buffy has thought about Twilight and is trying to prevent it from doing any harm, still no word if she brought back Voll as a prisoner of war after rescuing Willow. It is also very cool to see Dawn and Willow with more talk on this giant fiasco.

Also, very interesting Faith tosses out her ear peice. Does this mean she has always kind of planned to play this game her way? If so are we thinking Buffy showing up may not be a plan by Giles?

[some spykie ship]

I didn't know you could get previews that way. I'll remember that.

Spoiler:

I always assumed that Buffy would show up on her own. I'm more interested in who it is talking to Faith after she chucks out the earpiece, which is a twist in itself. I had her pegged as desperate enough to cooperate with Giles.

[NileQT87]

Spoiler:

anybody notice that a bunch of the people going to the ball are chinamen with bald heads, hair locks and in traditional chinese dress? or is that my vivid imagination and seeing things? they look like they'd be more at home in a boxer rebellion flashback than an apparently CURRENT english high society ball. maybe it's joss' nod to firefly with a wink at chinese culture.

one thing though. we see dawn eating apples like they're the size of pop rocks there. does that mean when she gets fed she ends up eating all the pits, seeds, stems, god forbid, animal parts, etc...? do they make her huge vats of soup to drink? does willow magically super-size all her meals?

lol...

[Anon]

Spoiler:

I thought that the last issue removed any real possibility that Faith was gay, but in her narration in this issue, Faith says 'somebody you dig' with reference to Buffy. I'm no expert on slang, but doesn't 'digging' someone mean that you're attracted to them? Fuffy could still be alive after all.

[vampmogs]

Spoiler:

Digging someone doesn't have to mean you're attracted to them. Sometimes people say "I dig what you do" which just means they are really liking what someone is doing, or like someone in general. Though it can be just as friends, it doesn't have to mean you're attracted to them.

[Bittersweettwit]

Spoiler:

As a first time viewer of the comics. (I have been reading the transcripts so far) I have to say that I love the general appearance of the comics and think that the drawers have done a really great job in creating likeness of the characters orignal actor. The only problem I have is with Willow who I don't think was done as well as the others. But its nothing overly big.

I have got to see I am loving the comic so far. I loved the opening pages featuring Buffy and Faith in Graduation Day. I also think for me a first time viewer it highlighted just how good the drawers are at recreating scenes. So kudos for that I love the interaction between Willow and Dawn... Willow line "Boys are into you because of your legs not those itty bitty things" made me

As Vampmogs said I hope that Faith throwing away the earplugs means that Buffy and the gang will be more involved in this mission than Giles had originally planned...

Btw whee for first post in the season 8 Section

[ThePoet's<3]

Spoiler:

I agree KoC - too many flashbacks - eating up precious panel space!!

HHHmmm... Fuffy... Baith... Maybe... But I don't think so. I think it was more recognition from Faith there was a friendship of sorts between Buffy and Faith - at least from her POV. Or perhaps she was under that impression. And I think she is expressing more betrayal from that aspect - especially when she begins talking about the pain.

Typical Faith doing things her own way rather than for once following orders. I predict this is why Slayer Inc is involved.

[alexa]

Do we really have to use spoiler tags in the thread about Issue7? Little odd...

Spoiler:

I liked the flashback, but now that ThePoet's<3 mentioned it, it is taking up space when 1 issue is so short. Loved the Willow/Dawn interaction, I actually felt bad for her even though she's a comic. Seems like they want to keep Dawn big for a while... I sort of think they should until Buffy deals with her, or until Dawn finds her own identity. Laughed when Faith tossed out the ear piece, she would say that, Brian has her voice really down

Can't wait for this to arrive

[some spykie ship]

I agree with Vampmaster that Willow hasn't been done as well as the others.

Spoiler:

For one thing, she uses the word "mojo" way too much. I thought it was Spike who used that word a lot.

Despite my frustration from what happened in LMPTM, I think we should trust Giles. Aside from that one lapse in judgment, he's been a good guy,

Spoiler:

and Faith was daydreaming about Buffy's betrayal before tossing out the earpiece. Maybe it's Faith who's going to need straightening out before anything can be done about Gigi.

[sueworld]

Liked this issue a lot more then previous ones.

In this it was at least starting to show a semblance of the series that I once loved....

Spoiler:

The artwork was 'so so' as usual with this particular artist, although I did find some of the renditions of Faith to be rather on the ugly side and Buffy in one panel looked about 16.

Thank god Giles at least looked his age. Story was okay, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it unfolds, although I find it rather unsettling that Giles had chosen Faith to kill someone. Wasn't that rather undermining what had gone on before with her redemption arc? But hey, it's only a comic, I don't suppose I should look for much depth in this, or I suspect I'll only end up being very disappointed.

[vampmogs]

I think you most certainly should look for depth in this comic. Nothing in Joss Whedon's work lacks depth, it is what makes him such an interesting writer. The series will deal with Faith going to kill another human and what it means for her redemption. And already we've got a new insight into how she feels about her current job, there is depth there you just need to look for it.

[sueworld]

Yes, but it's hardly 'Watchmen' is it love.

This is why I was so disappointed so far with how season 8 has shaped up. The writing is very simplistic, and frankly two dimensional. Yes, comics can deal with more complex ideas and stories, sadly I don't think we're going to find them in here though.

[alexa]

That's so weird, I feel like I have depth coming out of my ears. I'm discussing the new season a lot, trying to work it out. The thing about comics is that there is limited space for text and images, so the sub-text is more subtle then ever before. I'd have to post about the depths when I'm not so sleepy, but I've found a lot of symbolism and new ideas conveyed in Season8 so far.. it's just different.

[sueworld]

Thing is to me it feels so different that it barely feels like Buffy at all. Issue 8 I like, but the others, err, not so much.

It doesn't help that I hate Joss's continuing fascination with the Potentials and that I don't like the whole 'Giant Dawn' malarkey. I find that element frankly ridiculous, even for a comic.

Also Buffy doesn't seem much like the young women I originally loved in the show. I know folks change, but that much? 'Old Buffy' would not have morally agreed with this 'quasi militaristic' set up she now runs, where young relatively unexperienced women fight and die in her name. They seek her out thinking that they will be helped in dealing with their 'little' problem only to get drawn into some kind of weird slayer army.

She didn't approve of what the watchers did to her and so I can't believe she would actively encourage the same sort of thing under her leadership. But then there was a lot of contradictory areas in season 7 that never got resolved, so maybe it's meant to be just a progression of that.

Nah, not my idea of Buffy, but then I'm not the target audience which appears to be blokes interested in seeing scantily clad potentials waving weapons around, having cat fights and jumping outta helicopters. No wonder it took this long for the focus to move onto Giles, he wouldn't look as good doing the same sort of thing would he?

That whole area seems so morally dodgy to me somehow. But thats just me, and I seem to be very much in the minority, unless you hang around in certain areas of Live Journal, where more people seem to share my concerns.

[vampmogs]

Thing is to me it feels so different that it barely feels like Buffy at all. Issue 8 I like, but the others, err, not so much.

I think it feels more like Buffy than season seven ever did. It again captured that wit and fast paced storytelling which made the first three seasons so successful in the first place.

It doesn't help that I hate Joss's continuing fascination with the Potentials and that I don't like the whole 'Giant Dawn' malarkey. I find that element frankly ridiculous, even for a comic.

I personally don't find giant Dawn any more ridiculous than the idea of her once being a floating ball of energy. Joss states he would have never done it on the show because he didn't have the budget to make it believeable, but in the comic he has no such limits. I was skeptical of the idea at first but as soon as I saw it I had no problem with it.

Also Buffy doesn't seem much like the young women I originally loved in the show. I know folks change, but that much? 'Old Buffy' would not have morally agreed with this 'quasi militaristic' set up she now runs, where young relatively unexperienced women fight and die in her name. They seek her out thinking that they will be helped in dealing with their 'little' problem only to get drawn into some kind of weird slayer army.

In 'The Chain' it becomes clear that nor Buffy or anyone else forces these girls into this situation like the old council, nor do they force them to fight in her name. They come to Buffy and the Scoobies willingly and it is their right to fight for Buffy and her cause if they wish. In 'The Chain' decoy Buffy says it was actually kind of beautiful over a panel which shows girls hugging and crying, seemingly they've been helped them out emotionally.

She didn't approve of what the watchers did to her and so I can't believe she would actively encourage the same sort of thing under her leadership. But then there was a lot of contradictory areas in season 7 that never got resolved, so maybe it's meant to be just a progression of that.

I don't believe that she is doing what the Watcher's did to her. No one is forcing these girls to join her cause or her army.

Nah, not my idea of Buffy, but then I'm not the target audience which appears to be blokes interested in seeing scantily clad potentials waving weapons around, having cat fights and jumping outta helicopters. No wonder it took this long for the focus to move onto Giles, he wouldn't look as good doing the same sort of thing would he?

Now I think that is unfair. The same thing could be said for the shippiness the show had throughout its seven years on tv, if we are going to make such stereotypical generalisations we could say this was just to appeal to female fans. I think women can enjoy the comics just as much as males, I know many who have. Nor have I really seen as scantily clad new slayers except for one panel which in his notes, Joss made clear he didn't want them to be super hot but realistic representations of what these women would look like. And I might add Xander has had a major role this season, more so than he had in the last few years of the show so the Giles comment doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

That whole area seems so morally dodgy to me somehow. But thats just me, and I seem to be very much in the minority, unless you hang around in certain areas of Live Journal, where more people seem to share my concerns.

I personally don't think Buffy has shown any questionable morals as of yet, Giles and Faith is a different matter but one that will certainly be explored.

[KingofCretins]

Thing is to me it feels so different that it barely feels like Buffy at all. Issue 8 I like, but the others, err, not so much.

It doesn't help that I hate Joss's continuing fascination with the Potentials and that I don't like the whole 'Giant Dawn' malarkey. I find that element frankly ridiculous, even for a comic.

Actually, you could argue that Giant Dawn is "the Buffy in it" at this point. If she did, in fact, get into a relationship and get dissed, a normal young woman could have embarrassment and shame, could feel humiliated and like everyone is watching her. In Buffy, the young woman *becomes a giant*. It's the kind of metaphor that defined the show in the first three seasons, isn't it? Now they just don't have the budget limits that would have made it impossible on TV.

Also, I haven't seen the fascination with the new Slayers -- there are new characters, but so far they have been secondary. I've seen a completely new investment in saying "oh yeah, these other main characters have stories to explore still" about Xander and Willow especially. Stories that were abandoned in favor of All Spike, All The Time in Season 7, as well as Wood and the then-potentials.

Also Buffy doesn't seem much like the young women I originally loved in the show. I know folks change, but that much? 'Old Buffy' would not have morally agreed with this 'quasi militaristic' set up she now runs, where young relatively unexperienced women fight and die in her name. They seek her out thinking that they will be helped in dealing with their 'little' problem only to get drawn into some kind of weird slayer army.

In 'The Chain' it becomes clear that nor Buffy or anyone else forces these girls into this situation like the old council, nor do they force them to fight in her name. They come to Buffy and the Scoobies willingly and it is their right to fight for Buffy and her cause if they wish. In 'The Chain' decoy Buffy says it was actually kind of beautiful over a panel which shows girls hugging and crying, seemingly they've been helped them out emotionally.

There isn't any evidence that any of the Slayers are being forced or coerced or manipulated into joining Buffy's organization. The very fact that only about 25% of the Slayers in the world are part of their group proves that. Buffy's group offers answers in a world that might not make sense to those girls anymore, but it doesn't force them on anyone. The Watchers, on the other hand, clearly coerced parents or even kidnapped young women, dozens or hundreds a generation, almost all of whom will never need it, and turned them into warriors to fight for their ideals. In "The Chain" its pretty clear people fight for Buffy because they want to, they talk about her like a rock star a bit.

Nah, not my idea of Buffy, but then I'm not the target audience which appears to be blokes interested in seeing scantily clad potentials waving weapons around, having cat fights and jumping outta helicopters. No wonder it took this long for the focus to move onto Giles, he wouldn't look as good doing the same sort of thing would he?

This is just nonsense. First of all, there are no "scantily clad" Slayers (they aren't potentials, they are Slayers). The *only* time such a thing happened was when they were showing Slayers playing strip poker behind Andrew for a joke, and even then, Joss' script instructions to Georges Jeanty were explicitly *not* to over-sexualize it because it was just in there for the gag of Andrew thinking Xander would be 'bored'. The rest of it is basically false... cat fights? Please be serious, or indicate exactly where in six issues so far you've seen a cat fight, or so much as an argument, between any of the Slayers. If you don't like it, don't like it, but don't just make up stuff about it like that.

So far, Season 8 is being applauded for drawing in and expanding the comic audience beyond the cliched conclusion you draw about the 'target audience'. It is the best selling non-Marvel/non-DC title in a long, long time. It's not achieving that by pandering to the comic book audience.

[vampmogs]

Completely agree.

The only fight cats we've seen on Buffy occured in season two and season three of the show. The first being in 'BB&B' when the entire female population of Sunnydale act catty under the influence of Xander and Amy's love spell, the second being in 'Homecoming' when Buffy and Cordy are very catty towards eachother. There has yet to be any cat fights in season eight.

[sueworld]

Don't agree, sorry.

You all make fine points, but I've said what I have to say, and I'm sticking with it. Later on I may bring over some comments that others have said on this matter as to why they're also not keen on this series so far.

[KingofCretins]

You all make fine points, but I've said what I have to say, and I'm sticking with it. Later on I may bring over some comments that others have said on this matter as to why they're also not keen on this series so far.

Your sticking with your criticism of the season for things that have not happened in the season (scantily clad Slayers with weapons, cat fights)? Now that is dedication.