Season 8: After the Metaphor Fall?

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is often described as a show in which the metaphor "high school is hell" is made literally true. Though that itself is not literally true?they're not in hell, just on a hellmouth. Anyway, hellish stuff happens at Buffy's high school. Metaphors like exploding heads or feeling invisible become real. Buffy articulates it in season 7, saying that sometimes on a hellmouth, the way things feel become the way they are (can't remember which ep, can anyone else? She's explaining it to Robin).

But the show isn't reducible to its metaphors ? it's also about people, and how they deal with more ordinary problems (love, money, family, SATs, college, sex). Literalised metaphor and realism are intertwined on BtVS, so you can have a situation in which a character is experiencing a real life problem (eg willow being dumped by Oz) but also experiencing mystical problems (eg Willow's spell going wrong and her will being done, wackiness ensuing). We get both the metaphor and the reality, not a metaphor as replacement for the reality.

On a personal level, Buffy experiences the tension between metaphor and reality (though, obviously, the metaphor is the reality for them?.most of the time?). Is she Buffy Summers, "just a girl"? Or is she Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Can she be both? In season 5, her anxiety is that the metaphor's taking over?that she's becoming just the slayer, a killer, and no longer a unique person with soft mushy feelings. The metaphor of being the slayer (battling your way through life) is used to explore the ways we define ourselves by what we do, and fear that our roles, our functions take over who we are. When she sacrifices herself at the end of season 5, she's found a way of marrying both sides of herself ? she's dying to save her sister, doing something personal. It's not her job (that would probably be killing Dawn really, since that would be the safest way of guaranteeing the world being saved), it's an act from one person to another. But she also saves the world while doing something for her sister. She's found the perfect way of being a loving person AND being the slayer. With the unfortunate consequence of her own death.

When she comes back from that perfect union of individual self and metaphorical self, the show's metaphorical structure becomes even more tangled. In Normal Again, the metaphor of slayerdom, of the entire Buffyverse, is unravelled. We're asked to question what's really real here.

This is dealt with in the context of the changing use of metaphorical monsters, and the changing relationships on the show. The Doctor talks to Buffy about her fantasies and how, over the years, they've grown more prosaic, less fantastical, and consequently less solid:

"All of those people you created in Sunnydale, they aren't as comforting as they once were. Are they? They're coming apart."

And,

"Buffy, you used to create these grand villains to battle against, and now what is it? Just ordinary students you went to high school with. (Buffy staring at him) No gods or monsters ... just three pathetic little men ... who like playing with toys."

This view of the metaphors of Buffy reflects a lot of fans' reactions: they found the later seasons disappointing, partly because Buffy wasn't part of a close-knit Scooby gang, but also because the Big Bads were?well, just three pathetic little men. Though if the Doctor had mentioned his distaste for her fantasies of sex with a vampire, it might've seemed unerringly like he'd been reading certain internet messageboards?mind you, Buffy voices the ridiculousness of that ("sleeping with a vampire I hate").

Season 6 often focuses on the absurdity that has always been in Buffy's life ("a vampire with a soul, how lame is that?"), and that absurdity is painful. Her life begins to feel like a story ? or, as she sings in OMWF, a "show", in which she's acting out a part that she doesn't like very much.

In season 7, the treatment of absurdity tends to be more jokey, less painful (in fact, welcome, in a season with fewer jokes, it's very welcome). EG Robin's confusion about Spike's chip?which is a rather convoluted story when you look at it objectively:

R: Chip?
G: It's a long story.
B: The military put a chip in Spike's head so he couldn't hurt anyone.
G: And that would be the abridged version.
[?.]
B: But he wouldn't hurt anyone any more because he has a soul now.
G: Unless the First triggers him again.
R: Triggers the chip?
B: No, the trigger's a post-hypnotic thing. The First put it in his head.
R: So he has a trigger, a soul, and a chip?
G: Not any more.
B: It was killing him, Giles!
R: The trigger.
B: No, the chip. The trigger's not active any more.
R: Because the military gave him a soul? [beat] Sorry.

That sorry sounds like it almost might be from the writers!

But by the end, by Chosen, the fantastical stuff becomes less of a source of narrative anxiety, and while the characters joke about it, perhaps they've accepted their strange lot in life? Buffy enacts a(n arguably) feminist metaphor on a literal level, sharing her slayer power with the next generation of girls (by working with another powerful woman). It's sisterhood, made all glowy and visible. Though of course there are problems that the show doesn't address at that point?whether they had the right to replicate the action of the shadowmen, putting demon powerbuns inside all those unsuspecting young ovens?.but that's Off Topic.

It seems that the use of metaphor on the show was always complex ? there were always "everyday" problems as well as the metaphorical ones, but it grew even more tangled and layered and problematic by season 6?then somewhat got over the hump of that in season 7 (I won't go into whether that season was any good here?just talking about the treatment of metaphor without judgin'!).

What I'm curious about, after all that lead in, is season 8?.where do they go from here vis a vis metaphors?they're not on the hellmouth any more so they don't have an easy source of metaphor.

Is season 8 a post-metaphor season? They're mostly fighting humans, not demons, after all, and demons/mystical beings were usually what the metaphors were grounded in: eg immortal mayors who become snakes, the evil spawn of the military industrial complex/frankenstein's monster/science?.hell gods?hmm, is Glory part of the metaphor breakdown?

Is season 8 a deconstruction of the metaphor at the end of season 7? In which case?is it more like season 7.1?

But also, how do you think the seasons compare in their use of metaphor? Are some seasons more metaphor-heavy than others? What do you prefer?

[ciderdrinker]

Ok I will not being going into anywhere as much detail as you Wolfie, basically because I don't hink my brain can hold that much stuff in it!!

I always loved the metaphors in Buffy - in fact it is one of the main reasons I love the show (/shows - I'm talking about AtS as well here). I haven't watched S7 as much as the others and I generally feel that would be because the metaphors are lacking/so buried I can't reach them. In the other seasons there were metaphors I could relate to - not neccessarily because I've been through it (never done any drugs so can't relate to how it would be to be addicted, for example) but I can see it in my friends/family/the world around me. That was what was so wonderful in Joss's vision that the fantastical and the real world were so similar.

I love to take myself away in to realm of fantasy, but it HAS to be grounded in reality or it loses something for me (I'm think of LotR here). The metaphors in BtVS and AtS were something I could understand and appreciate.

I've voted for the Buffy sleeping with Angel turning him into Angelus as my favourite metaphor in the poll, but would have to say that the whole of S6 as a metaphor for life as the big bad, was easily the one I could relate to the most, and so that would really be my favourite.

With regard to S8, I believe there will be metaphor that will be become apparent further along, although the slayer against the world could be seen as a metaphor for the current West versus Middle East sentiment in the world (a thing that Joss does seem to be trying to distance himself from now - regretting it perhaps?), nothing has stood out so far.

However, as the show has become more about adults than teenagers, I think the need for metaphor has been lessened. When we're younger we need help in understanding complex issues and therefore metaphors are a great way of doing that - Buffy and the Scoobies are all adults now and don't need such mollycoddling, therefore the issues they deal with are much more openly stated - this would also be a reflection on the audience maturing as well.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Ok I will not being going into anywhere as much detail as you Wolfie, basically because I don't hink my brain can hold that much stuff in it!!

Nonsense, there's lots of stuff in your brain. Except it's not in your brain now, it's in the thread. or is it in both? Now my brain hurts!

I always loved the metaphors in Buffy - in fact it is one of the main reasons I love the show (/shows - I'm talking about AtS as well here).

Me too...it was the metaphors and the jokes that got me hooked. And, interesting to mention Angel. Would it be off topic if we compared the use of metaphor on that? Especially as in season 8, we're now dealing with adult scoobies out in the big wide world...off the hellmouth too....and perhaps the way Angel uses metaphor might give us some insights into what might be in store in season 8, re metaphors? Or perhaps Angel deals with them entirely differently again, even from season 8?

I haven't watched S7 as much as the others and I generally feel that would be because the metaphors are lacking/so buried I can't reach them.

Plus, the speeches. *yawns* But...I think there are some good metaphors in season 7. I liked Same Time Same Place...and the concept behind the Killer in Me was great. Shame they had Amy in there with her rather shaky motivation/mwahahahahaha characterisation....and Kennedy, hadn't really warmed to her there.

In the other seasons there were metaphors I could relate to - not neccessarily because I've been through it (never done any drugs so can't relate to how it would be to be addicted, for example) but I can see it in my friends/family/the world around me. That was what was so wonderful in Joss's vision that the fantastical and the real world were so similar.

What do people think about the realism of Buffy? Is it really that relatable? For me it was always a bit shinier than real life. Everyone goes around with perfect hair fighting...well, not crime. But there is that feeling of gloss even when the grit hits the fan. Still, the way they explore the things life throws at you is always so humane and intelligent that it strikes chords without me necessarily relating to it as such.

I love to take myself away in to realm of fantasy, but it HAS to be grounded in reality or it loses something for me (I'm think of LotR here). The metaphors in BtVS and AtS were something I could understand and appreciate.

I loved LOTR as a kid, but I wonder if I would've got into it if I'd read it for the first time as an adult?

I've voted for the Buffy sleeping with Angel turning him into Angelus as my favourite metaphor in the poll, but would have to say that the whole of S6 as a metaphor for life as the big bad, was easily the one I could relate to the most, and so that would really be my favourite.

Oh yes, I forgot to even mention that! It is a compelling one...because it's turning the formula on its head. In previous seasons, the Big Bad represented difficult things in life. But now difficult things in life represent the Big Bad, or at least, stand in place of it.

With regard to S8, I believe there will be metaphor that will be become apparent further along, although the slayer against the world could be seen as a metaphor for the current West versus Middle East sentiment in the world (a thing that Joss does seem to be trying to distance himself from now - regretting it perhaps?), nothing has stood out so far.

If he did do a middle east metaphor, then it might seem a bit derivative of BSG...though I don't think that's exactly a metaphor, more that the show resonates with various current themes relating to war and terrorism/freedom fighting.

There's definitely a metaphorical element to Twilight - though not a very subtle one (big bad white men don't like girls having power...Buffy says something along those lines in one of the issues). But, also, the mythology, the universe of Buffy has gained its own momentum, so the slayer army (for want of a better word) would naturally, realistically attract opponents who aren't comfortable with the power it wields. So Twilight occupies an ambiguous space in that sense...which makes it's half-and-half name rather appropriate.

However, as the show has become more about adults than teenagers, I think the need for metaphor has been lessened. When we're younger we need help in understanding complex issues and therefore metaphors are a great way of doing that - Buffy and the Scoobies are all adults now and don't need such mollycoddling, therefore the issues they deal with are much more openly stated - this would also be a reflection on the audience maturing as well.

That's an interesting idea, that we move away from metaphors as we get older. Perhaps it's not that we need metaphors to make things simple, but because everything feels so dramatic, and that we have a slightly looser grip on reality...so telling the difference between how something FEELS and how something IS. Also, because we haven't got much experience, but we have a lot of fantasies, a lot of daydreams...so the realm of metaphor is a more natural one for the young, perhaps? The world (for some/most?) becomes less of a magical place...and that is both good and bad. AS in, it's not as scary or overwhealming, but it's not as joyous either? Not saying all people feel that though. But a lot?

[tangent]

I think that part of the problem with spotting the metaphors in 8 is that it's still a work very much in progress and i think something will become more apparent as the season continues.

I agree with Ciderdrinker though that twilight does seem to be reminiscent of the war on terror in some aspects. Perhaps that will come more to the fore as we continue?

[The_Narrator]

I voted for the adults becoming teenagers. The greatest moments in the whole show came imo not from the metaphors and the illusions to stuff, traditional and classical, and pop culture alike, but from the genuinely human moments. Giles' breaking down in Buffy's arms around the end of 'Passions', Anya's speech in 'The Body', Xander's 'extraordinary' speech to Dawn etc. These moments for me are so powerful that they rise above everything else. Yes, the idea of real life/vs metaphors is exceptionally clever and fascinating to watch, especially when the boundaries begin to blur (I mean, Buffy readily accepts in 'Normal Again' that being a Slayer can't make sense, it's insane), but there are those moments for me which make BtVS special. Though I admit that to give those moments of humanity their poignancy, an established understanding of the series has to be had beforehand. I've no doubt that if someone who had never seen or heard of Buffy before watched, say, Anya in 'The Body', they would find the scene moving, but it takes multiple watchings, an understanding of character histories, of the difficulties Anya faced in being made human etc., to really empathise with her. Kind of like 'Animal Farm' maybe? - in that you could read it and understand the basic themes, e.g. the corruption of power, the destructiveness of cruelty etc., but to fully understand the Stalin/Russia metaphors and motifs which are pretty central to the plot, you'd need to have an understanding of history beforehand. (And on a bit of a tangent, this is perhaps why the whole series had such mass appeal, considering it was meant to be a 'cult' show, as you could (well, deffo in the first 3 seasons, maybe not as much later on) tune in and watch an episode, and appreciate funny dialogue, fight scenes and so on. But you could also watch Buffy frequently, and get so much more out of it, understanding how the standalone eps evolved into season arcs, working out the motivations of characters, thinking about the ethical/philosophical/psychological implications on the show etc. A show that could be dissected and discussed, or just watched casually alike.)

What do people think about the realism of Buffy? Is it really that relatable? For me it was always a bit shinier than real life. Everyone goes around with perfect hair fighting...well, not crime. But there is that feeling of gloss even when the grit hits the fan. Still, the way they explore the things life throws at you is always so humane and intelligent that it strikes chords without me necessarily relating to it as such.

I think it can be relatable for most of the time. There were certainly moments for me when I was thinking and feeling for Buffy and the Scoobs because of their 'human' problems, and I half-forgot that they were fighting the forces of evil! As for the metaphors, most of them were presented well, I believe, since they dealt with the kinds of issues that actually occur in day-to-day life, so most people could relate to them, and I could still relate and understand a lot of things on BtVS even if I haven't actually experienced them yet. Though agree about the gloss. There was a sense that most people would make it through the end of the series, not really sure what it was exactly, but I just felt as though I knew nothing too dire would happen. Which perhaps took the edge off? On Angel there were definitely some hairier moments, when it was possible they would all die (well, I hoped for it in 'NFA', though the upcoming comics kind of disprove that - unless everyone did die, but it would be rather boring to have a comic with no characters in )

But which do I prefer? I prefer S5-7 over the earlier ones. The tone is much more realistic, and the idea that fighting themselves/human issues was harder than actually fighting demons and vampires was inspired. An often repeated theme in literature, no doubt, but one that will always work, since it is so true.

And is fantasy something for younger people? I would actually argue the opposite, but that's just me! When I was younger, the things that I would now consider to be completely insignificant (say, going to bed early) seemed like the biggest injustices in the world, and I would face them with great anger and mighty vengeance! But now I am actually facing the 'real' stuff they call life, it seems much easier to hide away behind metaphors and stories, than to actually face up to it. Kind of a Xander/Andrew thing there. But that's just me.

[ciderdrinker]

Nonsense, there's lots of stuff in your brain.

Thanks, I like to think so too, but it's getting it out that I have the trouble with!!

And, interesting to mention Angel. Would it be off topic if we compared the use of metaphor on that? Especially as in season 8, we're now dealing with adult scoobies out in the big wide world...off the hellmouth too....and perhaps the way Angel uses metaphor might give us some insights into what might be in store in season 8, re metaphors? Or perhaps Angel deals with them entirely differently again, even from season 8?

In the early seasons of Angel, the metaphors were defintely more adult than they were in Buffy (up to S6, I guess), and yes they could give some clues as to how metaphors could play a part in S8. There has been no pregnancy metaphors in Buffy at all and there were several (some not so metaphoric admittedly) in Angel - in fact one pregnancy was shown in every season! Surely, that should be something that should be dwelt on - although I'm now thinking Dawn being a giant might be a metaphor for pregnancy - it's certainly about the dangers of sex when you're not prepared for it, but also about how a pregnancy/baby can drastically alter your life, and there's not much more drastic than turning into a giant!

As AtS went on it too became less metaphory and maybe more action based (S4, anyone?) although I absolutely LOVED the metaphor of S5 - deals with the devil, losing your way in life (your purpose) and the like.

I would like to see BtVS move into those kind of "Help, what do I do with my life" kind of dramas, especially since everything has changed, and that kinda thing does make you panic a little. I'm a little disappointed in that respect that S8 takes place so long after Chosen. I wanted to know how Buffy decides where she's going after activating all the slayers. I wanted to see her have big conflicts about whether to take a break from her duty as a slayer or to stick with her duty to the new slayers (which she obviously did in the end)

I think there are some good metaphors in season 7. I liked Same Time Same Place...and the concept behind the Killer in Me was great. Shame they had Amy in there with her rather shaky motivation/mwahahahahaha characterisation....and Kennedy, hadn't really warmed to her there.

See, what I was saying about being too buried for me to get to them, I didn't really get those metaphors even on repeat viewings

Everyone goes around with perfect hair fighting...well, not crime. But there is that feeling of gloss even when the grit hits the fan.

Weeellll, it is american TV. If it didn't look good it would be very successful. Also, in a fantastical environment, you need a bit of gloss, otherwise I just don't think it would work as well

If he did do a middle east metaphor, then it might seem a bit derivative of BSG...

Joss has been quoted as BSG being his fave TV show at the moment, maybe he wants to emulate their success.

That's an interesting idea, that we move away from metaphors as we get older. Perhaps it's not that we need metaphors to make things simple, but because everything feels so dramatic, and that we have a slightly looser grip on reality...so telling the difference between how something FEELS and how something IS. Also, because we haven't got much experience, but we have a lot of fantasies, a lot of daydreams...so the realm of metaphor is a more natural one for the young, perhaps?

The older you get the more experiences you've had, and therefore less need to have something broken down into bits that are easier to understand, or as you put it, differentiate between how you feel and how things actually are.

The world (for some/most?) becomes less of a magical place...and that is both good and bad. AS in, it's not as scary or overwhealming, but it's not as joyous either? Not saying all people feel that though. But a lot?

Yeah, depressing isn't it, but very very true. The feeling that anything is possible, but we're not sure what to do with all these possiblities lessens greatly by the time you're into your thirties. You know a lot more, but you also know that some of the possibilities you let go by are the ones you should've taken up on

[vampmogs]

It is a little unclear on what the metaphor is at this point, but in terms of length we really are only into our third episode of the season, so plenty of time to figure that out. Notedly, whilst Buffy suggests Twilight can be a metaphor for men who don't like the idea of women having power (a terribly preachy and in your face line by the way Joss!) Voll makes it clear it isn't only men who want the slayers eliminated. So I think the metaphor is going to be a lot bigger than that, Btvs has always feminist values but it was definitely more prominent in season seven, I don't think Joss will make it as big in season eight and will come up with something new on the forefront.

Personally I think the Angel/Angelus sex with Buffy metaphor was the most clever the show has ever had, I think it is brilliant. Though I also love the Highschool is Hell metaphor and life is the big bad metaphor as well.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

The greatest moments in the whole show came imo not from the metaphors and the illusions to stuff, traditional and classical, and pop culture alike, but from the genuinely human moments.

Hmm, I wonder. I'm trying to think of my favourite moments, and whether they're "real" or "metaphorical" or, as you say with the allusions?just "meta" I think a lot of my faves come in the last category: the self-referential stuff especially, such as Buffy's "A vampire with a soul? How lame is that!" or Xander-as-Dracula's "buttmonkey", which explores both his status on the show AND the show's relation to previous pop culture?and?."Dawn's in trouble?it must be Tuesday". Ok, the latter isn't on my top ten list or anything, but it's definitely one of the things that really excites me about Buffy, because it reminds me of the power of the story to keep pulling me in, however much it questions itself. So perhaps it is the "real" stuff that has the power, and the meta serves to remind you how strong the realism is, or at least, how real the characters seem, how alive.

Giles' breaking down in Buffy's arms around the end of 'Passions', Anya's speech in 'The Body', Xander's 'extraordinary' speech to Dawn etc. These moments for me are so powerful that they rise above everything else.

Well, I never liked Anya's speech in the Body ? there's something very cutesy about the way it uses the everyday ? "she'll never yawn, or brush her hair" etc.


But I agree with you in principle! In terms of how it fits into Anya's character, it's significant that she's ready to try and get to grips with being human, even if she doesn't quite get it yet. I just wish they'd tweaked the writing a bit, because I like bit about not being able to get back in her body, the way that resonates with Anya's previous immortality.

I'm now trying to think of "realistic" moments that I did like. Buffy dumping Spike, I liked that on the level of realism ? him being a vampire's irrelevant. It's "just a girl" telling a boy (this is starting to sound like Notting Hill) the truth. The hurt on his face makes it look suddenly more human than it usually does. There's no smirking, no "front", no game face.

Buffy finding Joyce's body. Oh, and being sick shortly after. Those were two moments when the fantasy just evapourated, and raw reality was all that was left. Actually, I'm sure there are many more moments like that. Though?some of the metaphor moments of emotion are very powerful too?like Buffy and Angel being possessed by the souls of the teacher and the pupil, there was something about that that really grabbed me. Partly because that's such a good song (I only have eyes for you).

I think it can be relatable for most of the time. There were certainly moments for me when I was thinking and feeling for Buffy and the Scoobs because of their 'human' problems, and I half-forgot that they were fighting the forces of evil!

I'd probably come at it the other way around. I think the most relatable thing on Buffy is the metaphors?because they can be applied so many ways?it's the US high school stuff that's from another planet, imo. America's always been a bit of a dream place for me?for all its faults, I still have this unshakeable notion that everything is bigger, better, shinier there?.and Buffy and Angel both keep that alive. Even when Cordy's living in what's supposed to be a crap apartment, it's ten times better than my flat!

As ciderdrinker says:

Weeellll, it is american TV. If it didn't look good it would be very successful. Also, in a fantastical environment, you need a bit of gloss, otherwise I just don't think it would work as well

I don't think you do need the gloss?Deadwood's all scabby, as is The Wire?and I don't see why that can't be carried over into the fantasy arena. At least, when it's a fantasy that is realistic, that touches on real problems. I'm thinking Nightwatch, I'm thinking Pan's Labyrinthe?but, those are more Euro in feel.

And is fantasy something for younger people? I would actually argue the opposite, but that's just me! When I was younger, the things that I would now consider to be completely insignificant (say, going to bed early) seemed like the biggest injustices in the world, and I would face them with great anger and mighty vengeance! But now I am actually facing the 'real' stuff they call life, it seems much easier to hide away behind metaphors and stories, than to actually face up to it. Kind of a Xander/Andrew thing there. But that's just me.

For me, fantasy isn't really an escape?I have the OC or Gilmore Girls for that!...it's more a sideways step into another place where you can explore ideas. Even as a kid, LOTR was a world in which nothing was safe or certain?but it was bigger. So perhaps fantasy offers bigger, bolder versions of the scary things?making them into a form where you can see how they can be conquered. Not that it's easy to conquer them, but that you know where the battle lines are drawn. So, in Buffy, an emotional problem that in real life might seem vague or woolly or hard to understand becomes a solid monster that you can kill. Except when you can't, or when she's just as confused as everyone else. Which is often. So there goes any kind of "metaphors make things simple" option! Damn.

Re season 7 and metaphor:

See, what I was saying about being too buried for me to get to them, I didn't really get those metaphors even on repeat viewings

I think the metaphor of same time same place is fairly straightforward isn't it? Just?Willow isn't ready to face her friends, so she makes herself not be there so she doesn't have to. Then, the killer in me?.Willow becomes the thing she hates and fears most (Warren) as self-flagellation for killing said hate and feared person. A fairytale punishment for a witch, with a fairytale solution (snogging).

Yeah, depressing isn't it, but very very true. The feeling that anything is possible, but we're not sure what to do with all these possiblities lessens greatly by the time you're into your thirties. You know a lot more, but you also know that some of the possibilities you let go by are the ones you should've taken up on

I know that I have fewer nights that feel like anything could happen nowadays. Though not saying I never do, and exaggerating for effect. But there are things on your mind as an adult (I'm thinking 25 plus) that you don't have to worry about as a teenager/young adult. Not that you don't have your own worries, but they're of a different kind. I found the pain of being young was the pain of total formless chaos, of not knowing where I was or who I was half the time?and the pain of being an adult is knowing all that all too well.

Which is interesting in relation to Buffy and Angel and their respective metaphors. Angel's metaphor, some people have said, is for alcoholism. But in broader terms, it could be a metaphor for adulthood-middle age?where you feel sometimes that you have have more to look back at than look forward to, and where you've had time to royally screw things up and have things to atone for. IE Angel's is a backwards-facing metaphor, and the battle is to find ways to look forward, to change what you've become, and change the world while you're doing it. In terms of the metaphors within the show, you have things like Gunn's soul being collected (or about to be) as payment for the folly of his youth (trading his soul for a truck), or Wesley's fatherbot exploring his childhood. Though I'm sure there's a lot of cases in which the show deals with stuff that's not backwards facing?I'm just trying to outline a trend.

While BtVS's metaphor relates more to becoming and growth?being a metaphor for adolescence. Buffy begins unformed and ends still in a process of change, which she herself expresses in a (sickly cute appalling) metaphor: "I'm cookie dough". But most of the metaphors of the show do it better than Buffy's. Oz's werewolf status, Xander's hyenadom?dealing with adolescent masculinity?or Xander's split self in season 5, exploring that uncertainty about who you and what you're capable of when you're in the transitiony time after high school/college.

By season 8, has Buffy has a past, she has things she can look back on and regret ("sweet muppety odin, I miss that sex") but she's not at the Angel level of "having a dark past". So I feel season 8, if it offers up some serious metaphor action, would probably still resemble Buffy's present/change focussed metaphors rather than Angel's more past-focussed ones. However, they are in the realm of consequences?they've changed the world, and now they have to deal with whatever that throws up at them (eg Twilight).

Ciderdrinker said:

In the early seasons of Angel, the metaphors were defintely more adult than they were in Buffy (up to S6, I guess), and yes they could give some clues as to how metaphors could play a part in S8. There has been no pregnancy metaphors in Buffy at all and there were several (some not so metaphoric admittedly) in Angel - in fact one pregnancy was shown in every season! Surely, that should be something that should be dwelt on - although I'm now thinking Dawn being a giant might be a metaphor for pregnancy - it's certainly about the dangers of sex when you're not prepared for it, but also about how a pregnancy/baby can drastically alter your life, and there's not much more drastic than turning into a giant!

Interesting theory! Though I half wonder if they put giant dawn in there just so they could do the "giant pants" line. Cos if that was their motive, it was more than worth it imo.

Re pregnancy?I think pregnancy anxieties are actually more of a teen thing than an adult one. As a teenager I remember being terrified of it. Now, I'd be scared of the pain, and it would be a bit weird?but it's not the same sense of "it would be the end of my life". And when Cordy has her up the duff moments early in the show, she's still a teenager. But when it comes to the later stuff, like Darla's pregnancy, then you're more into the adult pregnancy territory, where the issues raised are "will I lose my identity?", "Will I love it"?, "What kind of world am I bringing a child into?"

As AtS went on it too became less metaphory and maybe more action based (S4, anyone?) although I absolutely LOVED the metaphor of S5 - deals with the devil, losing your way in life (your purpose) and the like.

The metaphor of season 5 I felt had so much potential, but the show itself didn't quite do it justice. Too much talking about the metaphor, not enough enactment of it. I know they were trying to make the show accessible for people who are only casual viewers, but I wish they didn't feel the need to mention that they'd done a deal with the devil/evil/hell incorporated at least once an ep!

I would like to see BtVS move into those kind of "Help, what do I do with my life" kind of dramas, especially since everything has changed, and that kinda thing does make you panic a little. I'm a little disappointed in that respect that S8 takes place so long after Chosen. I wanted to know how Buffy decides where she's going after activating all the slayers. I wanted to see her have big conflicts about whether to take a break from her duty as a slayer or to stick with her duty to the new slayers (which she obviously did in the end)

Yeah, if they had more time/space I'd have liked them to explore how things were set up, the choices they had to make. But staring in media res, with things already set up makes it easier just to get into the action. Which, since the comics are so short, seems necessary. Still though, I'd like more of that too.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

It is a little unclear on what the metaphor is at this point, but in terms of length we really are only into our third episode of the season, so plenty of time to figure that out.

Can I say once more how much I hate waiting between issues? Drives me NUTS! I mean, waiting a week for an episode is bad enough when there was a cliffhanger. But a month? Bah. But yes, it is still early days (and here's to there being many more days).

Notedly, whilst Buffy suggests Twilight can be a metaphor for men who don't like the idea of women having power (a terribly preachy and in your face line by the way Joss!)

God yes. A bit hollow really?everybody knows that reactionaries are threatened by change, but you need to take that idea and run with it if you're going to work with it. I think Buffy confronting the shadow men did that better, as did Buffy denying her "source" in the original slayer. Which is a more nuanced way of approaching the issue of patriarchy?she denies that a representation of woman-as-instrument defines her. So what she's fighting against is a product of the patriarchy rather than just "evil men". Go back to season 4 school, Joss Wasn't that keen on Caleb either, as a woman hating religious nut. Brother Justin on Carnivale does that MUCH better, and much scarier. Brrr! Or the Mayor, in fact?he's a better exploration of the lies and cruelty that hide behind "traditional values". That's the thing?the Mayor works as a symbol that can be read in various ways, rather than just having a character who romps around saying "I hate women", which is just stating the theme rather than developing it.

Voll makes it clear it isn't only men who want the slayers eliminated. So I think the metaphor is going to be a lot bigger than that, Btvs has always feminist values but it was definitely more prominent in season seven, I don't think Joss will make it as big in season eight and will come up with something new on the forefront.

It definitely goes beyond sex/gender?change versus stasis, perhaps?

Personally I think the Angel/Angelus sex with Buffy metaphor was the most clever the show has ever had, I think it is brilliant. Though I also love the Highschool is Hell metaphor and life is the big bad metaphor as well.

So many metaphors, so little time. Personally I'm rather fond of the loan shark.

Oh, and the fact that puppies are a metaphor for happiness and goodness (saving a puppy = the ultimate denial of Angelus for Angel, puppies and Christmas = reasons to save the world. That's where the scoobies went wrong. They never bought a puppy. Perhaps they get a puppy in the final story? That's when the world is right and good.

[selenspuffy]

Ive voted for the "guys are mean after sex", actually it is a great metaphor, also important for the show, that's why Im choosing it.
Actually "magic=drugs" is a good metaphor too, I mean we see some dark magic stuff, in s6, Willow was kinda addicted to it, and drugs can make you addict them too, also both are seriously dangerous. However, if the option was like "dark magic=drugs" , it would have been more realistic. but what a nice poll, great idea!

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Ive voted for the "guys are mean after sex", actually it is a great metaphor, also important for the show, that's why Im choosing it.
Actually "magic=drugs" is a good metaphor too, I mean we see some dark magic stuff, in s6, Willow was kinda addicted to it, and drugs can make you addict them too, also both are seriously dangerous. However, if the option was like "dark magic=drugs" , it would have been more realistic. but what a nice poll, great idea!

I always found it interesting that magic = both drugs and lesbianism. But yes, you're right?it's LIGHT magic that's lesbianism?and DARK Magic that's drugs.

*decides that a theory about roots being about sex toys is probably going too far down the metaphor road*

[omri]

I really had a blast with the Magic story line.. I can honestly say that it was so new for me..

[Kold]

"You know me... always making with the forward movement."
"Like a shark."
"Yes, like a shark, but with legs and... less fins."
"And on land!"
"Very good!"
Yes, I voted for the loan shark...

Speaking of the loan shark episode, one of my favourite metaphors relates to that vampire underground that says "I smell fear" (ignoring the subsequent "it smells good"). The vampire-attacking-you-at-night is very much the substitute for things that are, well, more realistic and realistically worse... which potentially makes female vampires like Darla/Drusilla/toddler Kirsten Dunst scarier, although maybe more comfortable to watch, because it is not that realistic... But I think one of Wolfie's points up there is how season 6 made things more prosaic, and blurred things so that real life was a problem... well what does that raise but the removal of comfortable metaphor in Seeing Red? Spike has on the show for a long time been "the big scary vampire" (well, a long time AGO in the show) and now attempts to enact that which Joss has used vampires for a symbol of. The female empowerment bit, the part where pretty little blonde lures you into the alley and then turns the tables on you (let's not think of Hard Candy now...), is corrupted because Buffy is more safe from the fantastical than she is from harsh, on-the-tiles reality.

Of course, being "sired" is reminiscent of the effects of an attack... how it changes your life, twists you. But one I prefer to that is the idea of Faith, a woman who is emotionally damaged to becoming like the "bad men" that she hunts down in the alleyways...

But that is really off-topic. To the point of "I smell fear"... I enjoy how, on another level -- particularly in season 6 I suppose you could say, when life is scary and we turn to drug metaphors, petty larceny, runaway grooms, cold sex (of the Ewan McGregor/Tilda Swinton in Young Adam variety) and Jeff Kober -- the vampire there is the metaphor for how our problems seek us out, and are amplified, rather than muted, by our anxieties towards them... as though the characters see the world in their season 6 paradigm, where no problem can be fixed.

hmm, is Glory part of the metaphor breakdown?

My crudely thought out and untested theory is that Glory, as arguably the most otherworldy and fantastical of the Buffy villains (or at least the hammiest) could be a metaphor for the vast uncertainties and unceasing anxiety over assuming the role of motherhood, as Buffy is forced to do all throughout the season, even in ways before she is forced to take the role.

And Ben of course just shows us that you can never be sure about who a person really is -- eg. a parallel for the revelation that Dawn, in fact, was NOT there for the past 4 seasons.

Editing Time:

Additionally... having only read the comic of 8.06 and a summary of 8.01 I can give no clues as to the metaphor behind the season as a whole, or even individual little metaphors for individual little things... although it is appearing to be continuing the trend started early on in season 7 by showing things over a grander scale, and even more grandly than season 7 did. I mean, Buffy is living in a castle, isn't she? What does that say except that Buffy is at the centre of grand things, and she is more important that ever? At least it's not an ivory tower.

I'll go back and address more points earlier in the thread later, it's great discussion though everyone.

[Ojuice5001]

I love the loan shark; he's definitely funny. But it was still a little out of place on Buffy. I mean, it's really more of a pun than a metaphor; although it's true that the phrase "loan shark" exists in the first place because it's a metaphor for shady characters who act like sharks. And really, the loan shark seems to act a lot more civilized than most of the demons on BtVS.

For a good predator metaphor, the early seasons can't be beat. You've got things like Natalie French, the hyena spirits, the swim team, and so on. To say nothing of vampires themselves. Werewolves are supposedly a metaphor for predatory tendencies as well, but really, werewolves seem to be all about the kind of senseless destruction that goes beyond the relatively sensible goals of a predator.

So the shark was fun, but I voted for Band Candy. The metaphor in Beer Bad is really quite similar to that in Band Candy, and I think it's a good one as well--since I myself dislike alcohol. Plus, I like cavemen.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I've been thinking that perhaps season 8 is more a seasons of symbolic parallel than metaphor. With so many slayers around, all living out the "same" destiny, opportunities for parallels abound. So, we've had the parallel of Buffy/uknown slayer in The Chain, and the renewed parallel of Buffy/Faith, now with the added dimension of Faith/Gigi's relationship as a parallel or a twisted mirror of Buffy and Faith's "friendship".

[tangent]

I've been thinking that perhaps season 8 is more a seasons of symbolic parallel than metaphor. With so many slayers around, all living out the "same" destiny, opportunities for parallels abound. So, we've had the parallel of Buffy/uknown slayer in The Chain, and the renewed parallel of Buffy/Faith, now with the added dimension of Faith/Gigi's relationship as a parallel or a twisted mirror of Buffy and Faith's "friendship".

Ooh good catch! Now you've said it, it seems obvious but i'd really not cottoned on yo i before, I definitely think your right though . Perhaps we could extend this a bit though. I think the parralells between Giles, Xandr and the watchers council are definitely there with Xander being much more early Giles than Giles himself.

Any others?

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Ooh good catch! Now you've said it, it seems obvious but i'd really not cottoned on yo i before, I definitely think your right though . Perhaps we could extend this a bit though. I think the parralells between Giles, Xandr and the watchers council are definitely there with Xander being much more early Giles than Giles himself.

Any others?

Well, we're now looking at a fight between one organisation and another, rather than between a motley crew of kids and another motley crew (eg Spike Angelus and Dru versus the scoobies), or kids versus an organisation like the Initiative. Now it's whatever the slayer organisation is called versus Twilight (plus whatever monsters they fight along the way, obv). Though both organisations are, let's say, loosely grouped together (and some people don't even know they're involved in/being used by an organisation, ie Gigi).

That's a structural parallel in the story at least, though I'm not sure what the symbolic parallels are yet, since we know so little about Twilight.

[Southpaw]

I think they definately got the most mileage out of the magic metaphor. They did a lot of very creative things with it.

One not mentioned that I loved was the Spike/impotence metaphor in season 4, when he first got his chip. The conversation he had with Willow was just priceless. And I think the metaphor is kinda carried over into other seasons as Spike doesn't always feel like "real man"(and obviously he feels that way for other reasons as well).

I think the general metaphor of the show that hooked me was how it captured the whole high school experience of feeling "different" and sometimes being isolated from others. The Buffy character imbodies this as she really does live a different life as the slayer. I also loved the show because I was in high school when it started and it just seemed so much different from everything else on the air at the time, plus like so many others, I loved the writing and comic yet sincere chemistry between the 3 main characters.