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  • Xander, The ZEPPO?

    Well... I dunno if most of you think it, but i am. Most of the time i find Xander useless.. I like him being in the show. but most of the minor episode he's just there. Making joks. So what do you think? Please share!

  • #2
    I didn't like "The Zeppo" really at all. It was boring. Yeah I'm not the biggest Xander fan so maybe that's why. He got a lot better toward the end of the series but during the first couple of seasons I couldn't stand the boy/man. What made me truly dislike him was in "Dead Man's Party" when he just went off on Buffy. I was like "Oh hell NO he didn't!" *snapping fingers left to right in the air* Also it got really annoying having Xander freak out on Buffy about her being with Angel. It got old very quick. Therefore having an entire episode kind of revolving around him wasn't my cup of tea.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
      I didn't like "The Zeppo" really at all. It was boring. Yeah I'm not the biggest Xander fan so maybe that's why. He got a lot better toward the end of the series but during the first couple of seasons I couldn't stand the boy/man. What made me truly dislike him was in "Dead Man's Party" when he just went off on Buffy. I was like "Oh hell NO he didn't!" *snapping fingers left to right in the air* Also it got really annoying having Xander freak out on Buffy about her being with Angel. It got old very quick. Therefore having an entire episode kind of revolving around him wasn't my cup of tea.
      I think you got it wrong. Though i do hate the episode, it's not about it. It's about how Xander wasn't useful through out most of the series....
      But yeah... you pointed out some very true points

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      • #4
        Sorry I wasn't positive if we were talking about the episode since in the title it said "Xander, the Zeppo?" or if it was the whole series throughout. But yeah Xander wasn't very useful when it came to fighting but he could fix a window in no time. Although Xander was the one who saved the world in S6 so I guess he wasn't completely useless. And in S7 the first knew that he was sort of important/useful since he took the time to hurt the one person that everyone had always protected which ended up shattering their group so I guess in S7 he basically was one of the problems and didn't help the matter, did it? Basically the moral of the story is he was sort of useful towards the end of the series whether it was for good or bad.
        T _A _T _E _R _S'____ W _O _R _L _D

        Proud recipient of the "Vagenis Award of Excellence"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by omri View Post
          Well... I dunno if most of you think it, but i am. Most of the time i find Xander useless.. I like him being in the show. but most of the minor episode he's just there. Making joks. So what do you think? Please share!
          You're right about Xander being pretty much a character for comic relief in the beginning, but as the show developed he became a very valuable thing. He was the horizontal line in the middle of the parabola that indicates the baseline. All of the other characters, because of their unique abilities arched around him. Buffy, Faith, Willow, Tara, Oz, Anya, Spike Angel/us, and in some ways even Giles were extraordinary...Xander was just a guy. You could meet him on the street and he'd never cause you a single moment's pause.

          Allow me to me add...

          Of course his reactions are extreme. He's Joe Normal...I may die tomorrow because I have no extraordinary ability to defend myself...reacting to a world of bizarre extremes. Imagine how you'd feel if you found out that one of your best friends, someone you care for, was dating an almost 300 year old vampire. Okay now stack on top of that the fact that this vampire who you're already a wee bit freaked by goes all hatchety murdery when he gets a happy. That's the baseline to the great love, great loss part of the story the Bangles seem so hung on.

          Dead Man's Party was a...and you left us to try to do your job. Something that BTW we suck at... If I recall the episode correctly no one else really has the nerve to be that direct.

          Val
          Last edited by Valyssia; 18-08-07, 02:30 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Valyssia View Post
            Dead Man's Party was a...and you left us to try to do your job. Something that BTW we suck at... If I recall the episode correctly no one else really has the nerve to be that direct.
            Actually, both Xander and Joyce showed a lot of hypocrisy in Dead Man's Party. For example, Xander's remark about Buffy not being able to 'just bury stuff', because it's not like that's what he was trying to do when he went out of his way to avoid her in said episode.

            The thing about Xander is that despite not having anything much to contribute, he still manages to be a valued member of the team.

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            • #7
              I think classifying Xander as useless is unduly harsh. His character was meant to bring a balance to the show, imo. He's really the only one in the core bunch without an extraordinary ability--Giles included because of his vast knowledge of all things supernatural--and I think he is there to show that even an average Joe can be apart of the mission. He has his down times but hinestly, so do all the rest of the characters. I happen to like Xander quite a lot. In fact, he's my fave character in the s8 comic so far.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                I think classifying Xander as useless is unduly harsh. His character was meant to bring a balance to the show, imo. He's really the only one in the core bunch without an extraordinary ability--Giles included because of his vast knowledge of all things supernatural--and I think he is there to show that even an average Joe can be apart of the mission. He has his down times but hinestly, so do all the rest of the characters. I happen to like Xander quite a lot. In fact, he's my fave character in the s8 comic so far.
                I kinda like him in season 8 also. But in all the minor episode with the theme of "every day in sunnydale" i find him quite annoying. His jokes, his personality are so annoying. And also he has this manipolative quality.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Anon View Post
                  Actually, both Xander and Joyce showed a lot of hypocrisy in Dead Man's Party. For example, Xander's remark about Buffy not being able to 'just bury stuff', because it's not like that's what he was trying to do when he went out of his way to avoid her in said episode.

                  The thing about Xander is that despite not having anything much to contribute, he still manages to be a valued member of the team.
                  Hypocrisy? That's way harsh...neither one of them had any clue what Buffy was actually going through. Know why? She hadn't told them. So who's fault was it really?

                  Webster is our friend.

                  Val

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Valyssia View Post
                    Hypocrisy? That's way harsh...neither one of them had any clue what Buffy was actually going through. Know why? She hadn't told them. So who's fault was it really?

                    Webster is our friend.

                    Val
                    But you figure that they would understand, right? I mean, it's not like her pet died... She killed the love of her life!

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                    • #11
                      They had no reason to think her killing Angelus was anything particularly traumatic for her because, again, they hadn't told her. Buffy was the *only* one with full knowledge of what happened, hadn't shared it, yet expected everyone to defer to her pain over those events.

                      I think it's ridiculous to call Xander useless. Is the character comic relief? A lot of times. But that stuff about him being the heart of the group, and the one who sees, that's not just being nice. It's consistently true throughout the series.

                      And, there are several times when he's the go to guy in the group.

                      Nightmares -- he's the one who manages to confront a fear long enough for the gang to figure out that they can.

                      Prophecy Girl -- saves Buffy's life, complete with 240 years of deadweight in tow.

                      Some Assembly Required -- saves Cordy's life by jumping through fire

                      Inca Mummy Girl -- saves Willow's life by confronting Ampata.

                      That's just starters, obviously. In Season 1 and Season 2, before they knew they were going to be elevating Angel to his own show, Xander was the other fighter in the group. And he wasn't bad at it.
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                      • #12
                        Im not saying that he is useless in ALL the episodes. I'm just saying that in some of them, he is just there.

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                        • #13
                          In some of them, Willow is. In some of them, Buffy is. Why is Xander singled out?
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                          • #14
                            Prophecy Girl -- saves Buffy's life, complete with 240 years of deadweight in tow.
                            Thats a very good point. No Xander = no season 2. Xander does pull his weight in the struggle but not always in the most obvious ways. The thing id that he is, as has been mentioned the most low key member of the core four. He's still pretty core though. He might not be the best in fights but he does contribute and he comes up with the odd very good idea (the judge/rocket launcher springs to mind).

                            More than this though Xander is the beating heart of the team. As has been mentioned he is the one that keeps the team together, that knows dark willow enough to get through to her, that gets Buffy through her uncertainty in the freshman, that understands Dawn. Despite his affectation of goofiness the guy has a happy knack of being able to say the exact right thing at the exact right time.

                            Also i think Xander is necessary to throw contrast on the other characters. Everybody in a show having some kind of special power or knowledge would actually get pretty old prety fast if you have nothing to remind you that these abilities are special, that they are not the norm. Xander is the one that does this, the one who shows us just how special the others actualy are.
                            JUST ENOUGH KILL

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                              In some of them, Willow is. In some of them, Buffy is. Why is Xander singled out?
                              Cause when he is he's also annoying. I'm not saying that to piss off Xander's fans. That is really what i feel.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Valyssia View Post
                                Hypocrisy? That's way harsh...neither one of them had any clue what Buffy was actually going through. Know why? She hadn't told them. So who's fault was it really?

                                Webster is our friend.

                                Val
                                They didn't even try to find out, but if you look at my example, that's not really relevant. Joyce is the chief one at fault there with her 'I know I kicked you out of the house but I didn't want you to listen to me.' attitude.

                                Also, even if he didn't know the particulars about Buffy sending Angel to hell, he should have known better than to compare what happened between them to the everyday break ups that occur between teenagers.

                                On top of this, given that he hadn't made any effort to find out what Buffy was going through, and given some of his other comments, calling Buffy stupid and selfish for running away like that was a bit rich of him.

                                I think it's ridiculous to call Xander useless. Is the character comic relief? A lot of times. But that stuff about him being the heart of the group, and the one who sees, that's not just being nice. It's consistently true throughout the series.
                                Xander isn't useless but he's nothing special. As for being annoying, I'd say that he is fine most of the time, so long as everything is going smoothly for him. The second he hits a rough patch, that changes drastically.
                                Last edited by Anon; 18-08-07, 11:44 AM.

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                                • #17
                                  Check out this link: http://www.boilsandblindingtorment.c...rgreatness.htm


                                  1. Grave

                                  The most obvious, of course, would be the now infamous yellow crayon scene. Ignoring his miraculous arrival on the bluff (I thought he ran into the beam of evil that Willow was shooting at the phallic symbol, but I have been reassured that he actually seems to jump up out of the beam in slow motion), Xander threw himself in front of this destructo-beam. With no weapons and no common sense (some might argue), he talked Evil!Willow's hair from an angry black to sad red. Thanks Xander!



                                  2. The Zeppo

                                  He may have hung with zombies, he may have tried to use a tasty car to get some action and he may have put up with Cordelia's crap, but Xander Harris knew what to do when it came right down to it and saved his friends' oblivious asses. Sure, the friends that were up in the library fending off the lame Hellmouth, so it's not like they weren't doing their part. But they spent the entire episode talking down to the Xandman, when without him they would have been nothing more than little pieces of schmuck bait all over the library carpet. And did they say "thank you"? No. Sure, that's probably because Xander never told them, but still?Bitches, man. [Well, Faith kind of thanked him...]


                                  3. Prophecy Girl

                                  Angel, panting heavily and attempting to look stylish in a velvet blazer, had no breath to give Buffy after the Master dropped her in a puddle. But Xander? He who had been turned down by Buffy in favor of a dead guy? He who was then refused by Willow? Did he carry a grudge? Hell no, he got right to that mouth-to-mouth and saved that ungrateful chick's ass.


                                  4. Inca Mummy Girl

                                  Sure, he made one of many mistakes in the love department and fell for a demon, but who offered up himself to save Willow? That's right, folks, that would be our very own Xander Harris. And wasn't that pretty damn nice of him? I mean, he could've been sucked into a mummy! A mummy! There are no hot chicks laying around, waiting for a hot mummy to come along! (Actually, we're not sure on this?.he would, technically, be dead. And we all know how a certain Slayer digs the dead ones?)





                                  5. Halloween

                                  As Private Harris he kicked ass and didn't bother to take names. You go boy!


                                  6. The Freshman

                                  Buffy, depressed and ignored by Willow and Oz, wandered to the Bronze, ready to give up and just let Sunday kick her ass, when Xander found her and promptly inflated her ego by employing the phrase that didn't catch on as well as Joss had probably hoped: What Would Buffy Do? (Hey wait... I thought the phrase was What Would Buffy Wear?) We love him.


                                  7. In The Harsh Light Of Day

                                  Did he run when an invincible Spike attacked Buffy in broad daylight? Hell no. Sure, he got his head kicked in, but he did it like a man.


                                  8. Where the Wild Things Are

                                  Against all odds, Xander fought his way through a possessed frat house and went where no man has ever wanted to go--Riley's room. With no concern for his own safety, he bravely interrupted Buffy and Riley's continuous, evil sex. Let's hope he got hazard pay.






                                  9. Innocence

                                  Hello, who do you think came up with the idea for the rocket launcher? You think that was Buffy? Pfft. She may be the Slayer, but she wasn't turned into a military man on Halloween, no way, no how.


                                  10. Lessons

                                  Swallowing his pride and entering the girl's bathroom, Xander found the talisman and smashed it to teeny tiny bits, making all the ghoulie people go away. Yay Xander!



                                  11. Go Fish

                                  The episode may have sucked, but those not-so-scary boys in the recycled reptilian demon outfits were looking to snack, and Xander came just in time to save her from being fish food. He also put himself in the line of danger by joining the swim team. He had to wear a speedo. That shouldn't be taken lightly. Many of us are still thanking him for it.


                                  12. When She Was Bad

                                  Xander was gentleman enough to put his macking on Willow on hold to jump between a vampire and our little crackwhore-in-training.


                                  13. The Prom

                                  Ignoring the fact that this was one of the lamest episodes ever, and blocking out the memory of the umbrella award, let's just remember that Xander bought Cordelia a prom dress. We don't know how he got the money, and we don't want to. (Well, I just like to imagine that this is when he learned how to earn those dollars in his waistband.)


                                  14. Replacement

                                  Our man Xan pushed Buffy out of the way and got Toth'd. He was willing (once again, might I add) to sacrifice his life so that Buffy would be spared. Oh Xander, you're so sweet.



                                  15. Innocence

                                  When the adults wanted to hide, Xander wanted to go search for Buffy, his personal safety be damned. We like to think he would still be this brave even if Buffy wasn't so hot.


                                  16. Killed by Death

                                  Forgetting for a moment that he's a lowly mortal, Xander stood up to Angelus in the hospital waiting room, denying him access to sick Buffy and filling the hospital with enough sexual tension to spawn thousands of fanfics across the country. And later, who followed his lady fair when she went to slay the Freddie Krueger wannabe? Her knight in slacker clothes, that's who.


                                  17. Some Assembly Required

                                  Not yet up to groping status with Cordelia, Xander nevertheless jumped through the fire to go after Cordelia when the Frankensteinish monster left her strapped to a table. Everyone else just stood there going "ooh, scary fire!" and he just ran right in, with no concern for his own personal safety. And this was before he even thought Cordy was hot. At least, before he thought it out loud.


                                  18. The Harvest

                                  Even though he was only 16 and just found out about vampires, he went with Buffy to save his friend, Jesse. She was the slayer. He was just courageous. Unable to save Jesse, he ended up staking him by the end of the episode. Sure, it wasn't a world-saving maneuver (and he didn't actually do it on purpose), but it was still pretty damn brave.


                                  19. The Pack

                                  Even though it may have been partly Xander's fault that Willow's life was in danger, when it came right down to it, and the hyena had been exorcised from his body, Xander rushed the psycho with the knife and saved the life of the woman who's heart he would one day crush. If she wasn't gay.


                                  20. Anne

                                  Picking up the slack Buffy left, Xander took the moniker NightHawk and went out patrolling nightly with the rest of the underaged crew, keeping the streets and graveyards of Sunnydale safe. Sorta. But he tried, dammit.


                                  21. Lover's Walk

                                  Who threw himself at Spike? Oh, that's right, Xander. And what did he get for his troubles? Knocked out and held prisoner, that's what. Oh, and Willow kissage, but really, that didn't do him much good in the end.

                                  22. Him

                                  Proof that the saving just keeps coming. Who actually took action and found out what the spell was all about? And who stopped Willow just in time? And drove Spike to the school to stop Buffy? And got Buffy to the train tracks in time to save Dawn? And formulated the brilliant and complicated plan to end the spell? Oh, that's right. It was Xander. Again.


                                  23. Never Leave Me

                                  Oh, and proof that his no-super-power-in-sight self is still out there risking his life for others, he whacked that harbinger and saved Dawn's life (looking damn hot while doing it too). If only he could whack those harbingers out of my memory. Forever.
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                                  • #18
                                    Yeah OK. this site has some really really good points... But think of the time he did something stupid or was needed saving. there are both sides to the courter... he has some high points. but some very low points.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by omri View Post
                                      Yeah OK. this site has some really really good points... But think of the time he did something stupid or was needed saving. there are both sides to the courter... he has some high points. but some very low points.
                                      Yes, but everyone has those moments. Buffy, Willow, Dawn, Giles, Cordy... Everyone did some stupid things, needed rescuing or went through bad times, so there's no reason to single Xander out. At least half the times he needed help were not his fault in the first place.
                                      Buffy: It sounds like it's difficult for you. Maybe your sister makes it hard for you to establish your own identity. You said she's controlling, she doesn't let you make your own decisions -
                                      Dawn: Yeah, and she borrows my clothes without asking.

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                                      • #20
                                        But most of the charecters are not manipualtive... And he's kind of annoying... that's why I singled out him...

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