what do you think of Jess from season 1 apearing...

[omri]

as the first evil.. What do you think could have happend if he were there as the first evil giving Xander Buffy and Willow heart feeling for not saving his life?
Go on then!

[holypotatoes]

I honestly don't think anything would've really happened. Jess did the whole feel sorry for not saving me bit after he became a vampire. I liked the way how the first appeared in all the ways that would hurt the main characters. The first episode of season 7 showed it all. The merging of all of the big bads over the years, it wouldn't have worked to randomly put Jesse in with them. Besides Jesse wasn't even in the series that long. The people who started watching Buffy in season 6 would've have been like who the hell is that guy?! At least they could've learned about all the big bads off the internet but they would still be confused about Jess. What they should've done is brought Tara back as the first at least once. That would have been good.

[omri]

Amber didn't want to come back. She wanted to do other stuff.. But really, don't you think Jess will be an intresting add to season 7?

[KingofCretins]

I don't think Eric Balfour was available regardless. It still steams me, though, that they didn't find something to give Xander in "Conversations with Dead People". He was in 143 other episodes. Just inexcusable to spend minutes following Spike around in silent scenes that are redundant to what we learn in exposition and remove one of the three major characters altogether.

If they wanted someone else that they could have used to get under Xander's skin, there are a number of other characters they could have used. I would say Ms. Calender, because he seemed to have a *slight* crush on her, but Robia wouldn't play the First again. But what about Kendra? Or Ampata? Or Larry? Or Cordy (I wrote a fic posted on this site that used Cordy in "Conversations with Dead People" based on the assumption that she was "dead" at some point -- perhaps after her wounding in "Lover's Walk", or "Birthday", or during her higher being thing).

[holypotatoes]

Originally posted by Omri
Amber didn't want to come back. She wanted to do other stuff.. But really, don't you think Jess will be an intresting add to season 7?

It might of been interesting for us die hard fans but I still don't see how it would have been good to put him in. Since he wasn't in the series that long they would have had to make stuff up to keep his character going and if they started making up stuff we would all be like, "huh, where did that come from?" *quickly pops in a season one dvd* Then we would be complaining about that.

I don't think Eric Balfour was available regardless. It still steams me, though, that they didn't find something to give Xander in "Conversations with Dead People". He was in 143 other episodes. Just inexcusable to spend minutes following Spike around in silent scenes that are redundant to what we learn in exposition and remove one of the three major characters altogether.

Originally posted by KingofCretins
I don't think Eric Balfour was available regardless. It still steams me, though, that they didn't find something to give Xander in "Conversations with Dead People". He was in 143 other episodes. Just inexcusable to spend minutes following Spike around in silent scenes that are redundant to what we learn in exposition and remove one of the three major characters altogether.

If they wanted someone else that they could have used to get under Xander's skin, there are a number of other characters they could have used. I would say Ms. Calender, because he seemed to have a *slight* crush on her, but Robia wouldn't play the First again. But what about Kendra? Or Ampata? Or Larry? Or Cordy (I wrote a fic posted on this site that used Cordy in "Conversations with Dead People" based on the assumption that she was "dead" at some point -- perhaps after her wounding in "Lover's Walk", or "Birthday", or during her higher being thing).

I don't think it was that horrible not to have anything approach Xander in "Conversations with Dead People". Xander hasn't really lost anyone close to him until the end of season 7 so it's understandable not to have anything talk to him in that episode. Maybe they could've made Buffy (incoporeal Buffy I mean) talk to him because for awhile I didn't get why Buffy was all of a sudden the image of the first. I think having Buffy as the first would have made a bigger impact since Xander is the one who brought Buffy back to life the first time she died.

[KingofCretins]

Having Buffy appear to him as the First would have been brilliant, but, from a planning standpoint, kind of flimsy. After all, Xander's was where the real Buffy turned up first, so it wouldn't have stuck with him as badly.

[omri]

True that. Also i don't think Joss even thought of using the First on Xander cause he wasn't that importent to the final fight. Like allways, a zippo.

[vampmogs]

True that. Also i don't think Joss even thought of using the First on Xander cause he wasn't that importent to the final fight. Like allways, a zippo.

I disagree, Xander was extremely important to the final fight. Joss and the writers described Xander as the guy that kept the house together, when he lost his eye he broke and the house came tumbling down. Loosing his eye caused a chain reaction which resulted in Buffy being kicked out, Faith leading the girls into a trap and many potentials being seriously injured or dying. It is evident the First and Caleb saw Xander as important, Caleb states;

"Your the one who sees everything aren't you?"

Before jabbing out his eye. He wouldn't say this unless the First had told him about Xander and how seeing things and keeping the group together was his strength. In order to break the group Caleb went for the very thing that made Xander special.

If the First cared enough about Xander to tell Caleb about him and how important he was, I'm betting it viewed him as an important part of the final fight.

Oh and it is spelt Zeppo

[omri]

I disagree, Xander was extremely important to the final fight. Joss and the writers described Xander as the guy that kept the house together, when he lost his eye he broke and the house came tumbling down. Loosing his eye caused a chain reaction which resulted in Buffy being kicked out, Faith leading the girls into a trap and many potentials being seriously injured or dying. It is evident the First and Caleb saw Xander as important, Caleb states;

"Your the one who sees everything aren't you?"

Before jabbing out his eye. He wouldn't say this unless the First had told him about Xander and how seeing things and keeping the group together was his strength. In order to break the group Caleb went for the very thing that made Xander special.

If the First cared enough about Xander to tell Caleb about him and how important he was, I'm betting it viewed him as an important part of the final fight.

Oh and it is spelt Zeppo

You have a point there. and it's not nice to laugh about my spelling skills.. After all English is not my native language.

[vampmogs]

You have a point there. and it's not nice to laugh about my spelling skills.. After all English is not my native language.

In no way meant to offend. I actually included the laughing smiley to try and make my correction more friendly so I didn't come across as a pompus prick. It wasn't done to laugh at your spelling skills just trying to appear more carefree about it.

[omri]

lol.. I wasn't that much offended. I was just pointing it out.. (well maybe it pinched me a little...)

[Veverka]

Ooookay. Enough with the spelling issues!!!!!
Back to topic. Vev is here, full of good intentions!!

Do I think Jesse should have been used in CWDP? No. Oh... that's spam too... let me expand: I think Jesse more than served his purpose in the first episode. Big opener to a show, to kill what could be a main character right off- from the start we see people are expendable, Joss is willing to show us that no-one is safe (except he suggests in the commentary of Innocence(?) that Alison Hannigan might be!) from being killed off.

Should Xander have been in CWDP? Yes... like KoC said, he was in all 143 other eps. The claim that Xander hadn't lost anyone important doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned. Amber Benson was unavailable so 'Cassie' was called in- WTF!? (I'll try to not make this a CWDP bashing- IMO that ep was ordinary...) There are plenty of people they have lost over the years that could have had an impact on Xander... hey, even Joyce (yes, she was also appearing to Dawn, but ignoring that for the moment) was key in his dream in Restless. She's one of the many who are important to him.

Which brings me to my second point... to get back to the original question: Yes, Jesse could have niggled at Buffy and Willow too, about how they didn't save him- but there are lots of people Buffy didn't save, and right away in Lessons, we get her point of view on that- it's been a recurring theme throughout, highlighted way back in season two when Teresa is killed by Angelus- and she says to the zombie/ghost/manifestation people in Lessons, basically: 'Sorry, but get over it. I try. But that's it. No promises.'

(That's my loose interpretation anyway... she cares about the individual, of course, is beat up when she thinks she killed Katrina in S6, but gets that she cannot save everyone while saving the world.)

[selenspuffy]

IMO, they would look not effected, cuz they saw him when he was a vamp and knew thathe was happy with beinga vamp that time. But from the inside, they would feel bad probably-really bad and guilty.

[basakbangel]

Jess? I've never thought of that. It'd probably be different and umm.. odd maybe but fun. They would feel guilty as Selen said. But It'd be silly in a way because we saw him like 1 or 2 episode(s) then "hooop" to the s7-still different

[Kiera]

Jesse never seemed to really fit in; as Willow said in OMWF "I think this line's mostly filler" that's what I felt Jesse was; filler. He was cute and all, but I don't think he would, nor did he, fit in with the rest of the Scooby Gang.

[Tigger96]

No, I don't think Jesse would have really had too much of an impact. As Kiera said, he was kind of 'filler'. Considering the fact that Xander was the one who killed him, I think he served his purpose w/ Xander. The guilt, blady-dah...It's been seven years...they've had their chance to grieve the loss of him. The people used to taunt the others were people they would never really get over....mother, lover, mentor, father-figure...

It kinda bugs me, too, that they couldn't come up with anyone for Xander, but honestly, I'm sitting here racking my brain and I really can't think of anyone that would have had a huge impact on Xander. His lover is alive, his family is alive (but he doesn't like them, anyway), his mentor is in England as far as anyone knows...who would have had a huge emotional impact on Xander? And I really don't think Buffy would have been a good idea, either...not with the route they were taking with emotions. They were attacking those in power positions...Yes, I know, Xander was the heart of the group and held them together, but, I honestly think the way they chose to take that away from him worked better than taunting him would have.

[Amber]

hmmmm

as the first evil.. What do you think could have happend if he were there as the first evil giving Xander Buffy and Willow heart feeling for not saving his life?
Go on then!

I could see that maybe having an impact on Xander, but not so much Buffy or Willow. As far as CWDP, it really irks me too that they couldn't find anyone for Xander. Jesse would be the best bet, and even though people think he didn't fit in with the Scoobies, we didn't think Tara did either at first. Keep in mind, Jesse had the really great quip "I'm on the prowl... witness me... prowling.." So he did have his scooby moments. They could have done SOMETHING. I mean honestly. Do we really need to see Spike wandering town? Or the extremely extended Buffy and whatshisfacedeadguy.. what was his name? I can't remember for the life of me. I'll just call him Knox, heh. They really could have cut that in half, it was entertaining and all, but really. To leave Xander out entirely? They could have even thrown him into another story, even a brief appearance. Now maybe he wasn't THAT important to the final battle as far as brute strength or powers or anything, but Caleb attacked him KNOWING what influence it would have on the group and the morale. I suppose Joss could've left him out because he wasn't important to the final battle, but since when is Dawn? She was important enough to have a story, why wasn't Xander?

On a side note, why is it that after Jesse died, it's like he never existed? They never even mentioned him again. I mean, Jonathan got more of a mention after his death... as did every other character on the show. I mean, bloody hell, even Amy's mother got that little Oz trophy joke and also an appearance in the season 8 comic.

[omri]

On a side note, why is it that after Jesse died, it's like he never existed? They never even mentioned him again. I mean, Jonathan got more of a mention after his death... as did every other character on the show. I mean, bloody hell, even Amy's mother got that little Oz trophy joke and also an appearance in the season 8 comic.

That is a really good point and opinion! I never thought of that.. it's really strange too since he was their best friends since forever! (Willow and Xander's I mean.). I guess it just slipped Joss's mind..

[selenspuffy]

That is a really good point and opinion! I never thought of that.. it's really strange too since he was their best friends since forever! (Willow and Xander's I mean.). I guess it just slipped Joss's mind..

Yes, right..I mean They should have talked about him or anythng..! They have forgotten their BFF, how come does it happen? It would be sooo sad if Jess could see that. "Buffy came, so we forgot you" would be the best explanation..the dramatic one

[Weredog]

I would discard Dawn's bits for a Xander/Jesse exchange any day!
This would've given the writers a perfect opportunity to explore Xander's character (as Cassie did with Willow, Webster with Buffy.) Xander has changed immensely throughout the series and Jesse would be the best candidate to reflect that: "So, what have you been up to the last seven years, buddy?" asks Jesse.

What were Dawn's scenes significant for, huh? So that Joyce/The First can be attacked by a demon, then reveal a cryptic message that bears no foreshadowing? What?!