Question: How much of season 7 was Joss?

[nevermore]

Marti was showrunner in season 7 but I'm not sure how much of the season she was primary showrunner. I know that Joss was always involved but he was also working on Firefly and I think some of the time at least he was less the showrunner than Marti was.

I'd like if anybody could tell me when in the season Marti was primary showrunner and when Joss was primary showrunner. And basically how much of the season was Joss and how much was Marti. When was Joss actively running things and what episodes come from when Joss was actively running things. And how much of season 7 came from/was made by Joss as opposed to Marti.

If anybody could answer any of these questions I'd be very grateful.

[vampmogs]

As I understand it Joss had very little involvement with the finale season as he was concentrating much more on Firefly. Apparently Marti became prominent showrunner after Never Leave Me when she didn't like the direction the season was going so altered, which is evident in the episodes to follow. Notedly, after this happens the episodes go downhill, until Joss' involvement from Dirty Girls onwards.

[ykickamoocow]

As I understand it Joss had very little involvement with the finale season as he was concentrating much more on Firefly. Apparently Marti became prominent showrunner after Never Leave Me when she didn't like the direction the season was going so altered, which is evident in the episodes to follow. Notedly, after this happens the episodes go downhill, until Joss' involvement from Dirty Girls onwards.

So i guess she didnt like the interaction between the original characters and prefered a more Spike orientated storyline. I think most of the fans would disagree with that decision.

[nevermore]

As I understand it Joss had very little involvement with the finale season as he was concentrating much more on Firefly. Apparently Marti became prominent showrunner after Never Leave Me when she didn't like the direction the season was going so altered, which is evident in the episodes to follow. Notedly, after this happens the episodes go downhill, until Joss' involvement from Dirty Girls onwards.

"Joss's involvement from Dirty Girls onwards"? Are you saying Joss was fully involved in the last 5 eps? At least as much as Marti or more?

"Apparently Marti became prominent showrunner after Never Leave Me when she didn't like the direction the season was going so altered,"

What about before Never Leave Me? Was it Joss or Marti who was really running things then?

[KingofCretins]

I don't buy that Joss would have come up and overseen the steamers "Empty Places" and "Touched" directly. Those just scream Marti -- marginalized Scoobies not recognizing the greater glory of Spuffy.

Joss will tell you that he is completely responsible for the last two seasons, that he signed off on everything, and I still don't quite think he's doing anything more than taking responsibility and protecting his friends from criticism.

The way I had it was that Fury was running Season 7 for the first eight episodes because Marti wasn't there. When she got back off maternity, she ostensibly declared that the Scooby-centric season was garbage and that Spike wasn't on screen nearly enough. You know the rest -- continuity errors, OOC scoobies, Buffy speeches, Spike's the only one who understands, etc.

[vampmogs]

So i guess she didnt like the interaction between the original characters and prefered a more Spike orientated storyline. I think most of the fans would disagree with that decision.

You would think that wouldn't you? Sometimes I'm not too sure

I don't buy that Joss would have come up and overseen the steamers "Empty Places" and "Touched" directly. Those just scream Marti -- marginalized Scoobies not recognizing the greater glory of Spuffy.

All I heard was that he came back and became more prominent in the final five episodes, he wrote the teaser for Dirty Girls but I suppose that doesn't mean he was greatly involved seeing that he wrote parts of Conversations With Dead People earlier in the season when he had little involvement.

Joss will tell you that he is completely responsible for the last two seasons, that he signed off on everything, and I still don't quite think he's doing anything more than taking responsibility and protecting his friends from criticism.

Even if this was the case, signing off isn't good enough for me. So many fans come down on SMG for wanting to move on with Btvs when Joss had already moved on before the show had even finished. Joss needed to be more involved rather than just signing off on Marti's ideas, he needed to be more involved and the season was evidence of that.

The way I had it was that Fury was running Season 7 for the first eight episodes because Marti wasn't there. When she got back off maternity, she ostensibly declared that the Scooby-centric season was garbage and that Spike wasn't on screen nearly enough. You know the rest -- continuity errors, OOC scoobies, Buffy speeches, Spike's the only one who understands, etc.

This makes sense to me, there was something that happened after the first eight episodes, it was evident by the dramatic difference the season took after that. However, I still enjoy Never Leave Me and most of the final five episodes.

[nevermore]

What about season 4 of Angel? How much was he involved in that?