What do you think about Riley ?

[Vyse]

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all. What do you think about Riley Finn ? Usually his character is definitely not loved (at least in my experience ). In the past I was told by many that his story with Buffy could have never been as good as Buffy/Angel, that he's boring, uninteresting, not "dark enough" for Buffy and too macho-like or arrogant and unable to accept that Buffy was a better fighter and stronger than him.

I'm one of the few who like him. Not that I think he's flawless, of course. I do acknowledge that his attitude can be annoying, especially when he didn't know who Buffy really was. And I do get mad at him quite a few times myself (don't get me even started on the way he left), but I think he changed during the two seasons he was on the show, and I believe he wasn't that bad for Buffy after all, despite the horrible way he left her in season 5... what do you think ?

[Paradise]

Riley made me nuts beyond belief. Couldn't stand the man. He was totally icky to me. She needed a little bad in her man, he wasn't it. Angel and Spike were her true loves.

[Ahm Shere]

I didn't like Riley at all. I thought he was a dull character. I didn't think he had good storylines, I thought the character was quite pointless, and was only used as a love interest for Buffy. I think they tried to make him too...'important'. The Initiative? Pointless storyline, only created, I bet, for the Riley character. Riley just annoyed the hell out of me, and if Ben reads this, he's gonna kill me. But it's true. I don't think I have ever disliked a character more. (Apart from Angel)

[Pandora's_Box]

Really boring, everything he does is so annoying...yuck

[Jenni Lou]

I like him. BUt you knew that already.

Angel with Buffy was what was boring to me. I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

[Vyse]

LOL... I must be the only one on earth (even among those who like him) who liked the Initiative storyline too... I didn't like Adam, actually. I would have wanted Maggie Walsh to be the true bad guy. But I didn't dislike the Initiative thing. In all honesty, that's exactly what, in my eyes, made Riley a good match for Buffy... he had her very same "job". Ok, for him it was a job, while for her it was destiny (which she didn't really want, at first). But to me it was something they could share. So I kind of liked it.

[redrevo]

I really enjoyed him. He was an ordinary person, healthy for Buffy, and his character really did develop. As I've mentioned elsewhere, he started out as the "one mindless automaton, coming up," but with Buffy's and the Scoobies' influence he learned to do things his own way and not simply obey. He was nearly always looking out for what was best for Buffy, until Season 5's vamp-sucking, of course, but that was due to a lack of communication and Buffy not letting him in. I think Xander's speech in "Into the Woods" really summed up their gradually ending relationship - which didn't have to end if Buffy had only realized what she was doing earlier, or perhaps started running earlier . One thing I didn't like about Riley was that he was a bit uncomfortable with Buffy being stronger than him, that was IMO at least slightly sexist (although it could also be chalked up to a "the zeppo" feeling of not contributing). Riley was at his best when he wasn't under Professor Walsh. I liked his character development from This Year's Girl on, when he realizes the Initiative isn't all harmless and government isn't always protecting people the way they say.

I also think people didn't like seeing Buffy with Riley because (like Jenni Lou said) they wanted Buffy with Angel or a demon, either for the "unrequited love factor," or the constant angst...neither of which I particularly enjoy.

[Pandora's_Box]

I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

I definetely agree with the reason number two, but being a spuffy fan and not really a bangel fan (especially in season 3 with the all "we can see each other" blah bla blah) I tend do disagree with reason number one...

[Jenni Lou]

Well, it's why I shelled two reasons; I tend to think it's either one or other, if not a mixture of both. I've had enough Riley discussions to come to that conclusion. I also like Spike/Buffy as well but it certainly wasn't a healthy relationship. However I liked Riley/Buffy too. It's just the whole Angel pairing that I wasn't feeling. It felt....juvenile to me. That's just my opinion. I can fully respect others who don't have th same point of view. No bashing me please.

[Vyse]

Awww poor hon No bashing don't worry

I wonder what you guys think of the Riley/Angel fight in The Yoko Factor I suppose most of you were on Angel's side (yeah... even Spuffy shippers). As for me, I actually wasn't on anyone's side. I simply enjoyed watching it... Oh wait, I was on someone's side... Buffy's! I loved her reaction to it

[SarahRegi]

i also agree he was so dull and boring. all that initiative stuff just bored me as hell and everytime i watch my dvds i tend to skip over those episodes. heck! i would much rather prefer even Ben(the other half of Glory) over Riley.

[LRae12]

I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

I actually agree with you that those are the two main reasons why most people dislike Riley...I of course, am not most people.

I disliked Riley not for the Initiative storyline (which grows on you) or for the fact that he wasn't Angel (seeing the seasons many times through, that wears off as well.) I disliked him because he is such a bitch. And I say that meaning it.

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. 'Buffy doesn't love me enough', 'Buffy doesn't need me enough', 'Buffy doesn't breakdown and cry like a baby for me'...wah! wah! Give me a freakin' break, Riley. You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you!

I never agreed that Buffy didn't love Riley...I think she did, he just wanted her in an un-healthy way...he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him. The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off. Some people are just made that way. I know for me, personally, when I'm really upset or worried about something - especially, you know, a loved one dying, I try to keep it all in too and be strong for everyone around me...but eventually, when I'm alone, I'll break down. My significant other knows that - he doesn't say, 'oh you don't love me because you don't cry like a wet rag on my shoulder'...NO!

Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...

I guess you all have no question as to which way I answered the poll...

And I would never bash you Jenni Lou... - Just Riley!

[Jenni Lou]

You make some good points, LRae and I won't argue with that one bit! He didn't get a little clingy and needed in s5; I guess that was probably the best way the writers thought they could write off him quickly into the season. I am sure they had better things to get on with as far as Joyce's death and Glory and Dawn goes. So I actually agree.

However, Buffy has never been an open person and she most certainly does close others off. I am sure Riley thought he could penetrate that barrier, and when he couldn't, he whined and whined away. So, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with her being stronger than him as much as it does with her shutting him out.

[Vyse]

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. 'Buffy doesn't love me enough', 'Buffy doesn't need me enough', 'Buffy doesn't breakdown and cry like a baby for me'...wah! wah!

I must admit that I laughed my head off reading this

Give me a freakin' break, Riley. You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you!

This is not the first time I read this argument against him... To some extent, I think you are right. He had a problem with it, at least in the beginning... but I think it was more complex than that

he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him. The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off.

You know... I actually loved him for that... it made him human

Some people are just made that way. I know for me, personally, when I'm really upset or worried about something - especially, you know, a loved one dying, I try to keep it all in too and be strong for everyone around me...but eventually, when I'm alone, I'll break down. My significant other knows that - he doesn't say, 'oh you don't love me because you don't cry like a wet rag on my shoulder'...NO!

This is the only part I disagree with... you see, as I understood it, Riley wasn't hurt by the fact that Buffy didn't cry when he was near her. He was hurt by the fact that she told Spike first instead of him. If she wanted to be strong and not show her emotions, that's fine... but Spike was her enemy back then. Was he more worthy of Buffy's trust than Riley ? In all honesty, if I had been in Riley's place I would have been hurt too

Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...

I agree here. That was truly wrong and it hurt Buffy a lot. But when people suffer they do stupid things. And Riley screwed up badly because he was suffering.

I guess you all have no question as to which way I answered the poll...

LOL I can imagine

[LRae12]

This is the only part I disagree with... you see, as I understood it, Riley wasn't hurt by the fact that Buffy didn't cry when he was near her. He was hurt by the fact that she told Spike first instead of him. If she wanted to be strong and not show her emotions, that's fine... but Spike was her enemy back then. Was he more worthy of Buffy's trust than Riley ? In all honesty, if I had been in Riley's place I would have been hurt too

See, that's where Riley's and idiot...he knew Spike had the hots for Buffy, and he should have realized that Spike was twisting things around to make it look like she trusted him just to get under Riley's skin...what a putz...

Buffy didn't trust Spike, he just happend to come to kill her when she was crying about Joyce. Plus, she said 'I don't want to talk about it' to Spike when he asked her what was wrong, so it's not like she told him herself...his stalking her around her house all the time, he probably picked that up on his own by hearing little tidbits of information.

[Vyse]

See, that's where Riley's and idiot...he knew Spike had the hots for Buffy, and he should have realized that Spike was twisting things around to make it look like she trusted him just to get under Riley's skin...what a putz...

I get what you mean. But put yourself in Riley's place. He does not know what we, as viewers of the show, know. In his position, it's extremely easy to be fooled, especially by someone as clever as Spike is at manipulating people. Spike can be extremely convincing when he wants to be. Riley was already insecure of his own. And Buffy had rejected his help more than once. Just think at Buffy's reaction when he had offered to ask his army mates to try to find out who Glory was. She almost jumped at him. Put all these factors together and I kind of understand him

[ThePoet's<3]

I liked the Ruffy 'Ship because it showed Buffy that sometimes "nice normal guys" can be just as monstrous in their behaviors.

[Jenni Lou]

That's a nice way to look at, ThePoet's<3. After all, the series was about metaphors about life in general, as most sci-fi and fantasy is. I had never thought about the relationship like that before and it is a wonderful observation. There's no escaping the human condition.

[Goddess Guidance]

I enjoyed his story line. It made sense that Buffy would go for the normal guy that time around. Although it turned out that he was into the demon world also. I don't think it would be believable if every guy Buffy dated was secure with her strength. It's more real to see someone struggle with it, atleast at first. Now, I'm not saying that she should have stayed with him. Not if he wasn't going to man up and accept her for what she was. If I'm remembering correctly, Buffy was also shutting him out...All in all Riley was a good guy. Their relationship needing some tweaking before it could work.

[Salvation]

I feel sorry for Riley i,m a crazy Bangel fan & i think everybody know's about it But i think Riley was very good to Buffy,he was kind loving & really care's about her.I liked their relationship simply bcuz he was honest about his feelings for Buffy,yah he can be annoying sometimes but that really breaks my heart for him bcuz she didnt love him back the way he love's her but hey that's Buffy we're talking about.

I hated the he left Buffy & i was more mad in the way he's back showing off his stupid Wife i was like WTF?

In general it was a healthy ralationship for Buffy but as we all know it didnt work for so many reason but the main reason was he sometimes felt that he cant beat her & as he's the MACHO MAN he didnt accepted it i guess.