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Action, Romance, Moral issues and Demonology. Which one do you like the most?

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  • Action, Romance, Moral issues and Demonology. Which one do you like the most?

    The series Buffy the Vampire Slayer seems to be composed of four major elements.


    Comedy, Action, Romance, Moral issues and finally Demonology.


    It's obvious that the series has character fighting demons or other characters, thus the action part. It also includes the romantic relationships the regular characters get involves in, the moral issues they encounter in their growing up in their adventurous and tough lives(Joss intended the series partly to be about growing up). Then the supernatural occurrences and beings they work with or against to protect humanity which would be the part of series that's about demonology


    So which one of these do you like or care the most as you watch the series went on?


    For me, I like each from least to most as the order I put them in.


    I'm never been a fan of comedy, the fact there were so many jokes actually annoyed me sometimes, but I guess without it, the show
    would be too much like ongoing horror series, and the characters needed it to keep themselves sane.


    While the actors have put some good moves, the longer I watched the series, the less I care about the fight scenes.


    The romantic aspect of the series fascinates me to some degree, but few of them really moved me. It's actually the moral aspect in the development and end of the relationships that really make me think.


    The part of series that involves moral issues from any matter (especially the ones in the characters' relationships, romantic or otherwise)has had pretty big impact on me. Originally I can came to be interested in the series because the tittle suggests it's involves vampires, and I was a vampire fan before ever learning about the show. One time I happened to watch a piece of documentary which Joss says "....it's all about growing up..." and I re-watched a few episodes and realized that's indeed true. Every since then I can't help but to seriously analysis the moral aspects of this and every other TV series, movies or stories I watch and read, in any other word this series made some huge impact on me due to the moral issues it includes. (Made me a silly person because I take too many fictions especially TV too seriously )


    Finally the unique demonology Joss created is what fascinates me the most.
    As mentioned vampirism is what attracted me the series, but all other the demons and supernatural aspects made me feel want to look forward to what's new every time a new episode comes up.


    So that's my thoughts on the subject, which one of these four is what you like the most about the series?
    Last edited by DarkRobin; 13-03-09, 06:38 PM. Reason: Forgot something

  • #2
    Rather than "demonology", I would use "mythology". It's more than just "the study of demons", but a whole mythology with its own origin myth, various mythological creatures and mystical concepts.

    I'd also substitute "relationships" rather than "romance", as romance is only one part of the relationships in the franchise. Overall, relationships would have to be my favorite. The human element.

    And while we are at it, the Jossverse covers drama, relationships (including romance and family), tragedy, comedy, action, horror, mythology, etc... Even the occasional sci-fi.
    Last edited by NileQT87; 08-03-09, 07:24 AM.

    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

    Comment


    • #3
      Normally it are the moral issues for me, but to be honest ... BtVS wasn't really good with it. There were some very strong ethical questions but in the most cases it was forgotten and misused. For the moral issues I watch Ats, that series dealed much better with those questions.

      BtVS is more about relations. But in the end, I had a hard time believing that the friendship between the scoobies was still there (which is the main relation). It became more a series about the romances indeed, wich is a pity because I was always more a fan of the friendships and family relations. Which is something you saw back on Ats as well, the last season just forgot the friendships and it became a bunch of romances and a bromance.
      Last edited by Nina; 08-03-09, 02:32 PM.

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      • #4
        I think a lot of it appeals to me so it’s hard to pin point one specific thing about the series I love the most.

        If I had to pick I’d say it would be the characters and their relationship with one another. Like Nina I do prefer the friendships and the family relations more so than the romantic ones but I can enjoy them as well.

        The mythology is also a big part of what appealed to me. It was what caught my attention in the first place so I feel it’s a very important part of the show. It’s actually why I’m not as keen on season six where I felt the mythology took a backseat to the drama. I understand they wanted “life” to be the big bad but I couldn’t help but feel that if I wanted to watch your standard realistic drama, I would have. In that season it felt like a demon had to show up once an episode just to remind us this still is a show about vampires/demons but they weren’t ever fleshed out and we were never given an interesting supernatural story. I think the show works at it’s best when it incorporates the drama and the characters in with the mythology, the strongest seasons are the seasons that have a solid story/big bad to play with. Like in season two with the Angelus arc, season three with the Buffy/Faith rivalry which worked on both and intimate and *epic* level with the idea of “the dark slayer,” or in season five with Dawn being the key.

        I’m a big fan of the action as well though. I know a lot of fans see it as nothing more than window dressing and won’t really notice if it was scrapped but I always eagerly waited for the fight scenes. It was important to me. Obviously I care more about the characters and their relationships or I wouldn’t be able to enjoy season eight, where comic book action just can’t excite me like live action, but I did love it dearly.
        Last edited by vampmogs; 08-03-09, 01:54 PM.

        ~ Banner by Nina ~

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        • #5
          The characters. Not the romances, per se, although there were a couple of those I enjoyed, but the characters' growth (or stasis or regression, as the case may be) and how their lives intertwined. The paths each of their lives took, with all their detours and intersections, ruts and potholes.
          "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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          • #6
            The development of the relationship between Buffy and Giles was something that intrigued me. Initially Buffy was a reluctant slayer - Prophecy Girl, Graduation Day, Part 1, to name but a couple of times she "quit". However in Buffy vs Dracula she actually approaches Giles and asks him to help her to improve her slaying. Indeed, the pair had several more fascinating pep talks in S5, one of that season's stronger features.

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            • #7
              From "Beneath You":

              KAREN: Is there anyone here who hasn't had sex with each other?!

              (Spike and Xander look nervously at each other.)

              The fundamental eroticism of all relationships is constantly in play in BtVS. This makes for the interest in the relationships; Caleb, as the last villain of the series, explicitly embodies the rejection of eros & the subsequent diminution of women and all relationship, male & female alike.
              Entrer dans la lumi?re comme un insecte fou respirer la poussi?re vous venir ? genoux - Patricia Kaas

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              • #8
                Can I add another category? "The Funny." That's what got me hooked.

                Though also the "play" element that Ravynnia mentioned above - whether in the sex and gender sense, or in the genre sense. The reversal of expectations. The Saturnalia of BtVS.


                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ravynnia View Post
                  From "Beneath You":

                  KAREN: Is there anyone here who hasn't had sex with each other?!

                  (Spike and Xander look nervously at each other.)

                  The fundamental eroticism of all relationships is constantly in play in BtVS. This makes for the interest in the relationships; Caleb, as the last villain of the series, explicitly embodies the rejection of eros & the subsequent diminution of women and all relationship, male & female alike.
                  A quick aside here. I remember seeing that episode at a advance screening at a convention in the UK years back, and when that line was said there were multiple cries of "Result!" from women in the audience which warmed my slashy heart that day.

                  Can I add another category? "The Funny." That's what got me hooked.
                  Same here. When I first watched the pilot I didn't stick with it all the way through, mistakenly believing it was going to be some kind of humorless Beverly Hills 90210 but with fangs. Boy was I wrong. When I eventually ended up seeing later episodes I quickly realised it had some fantastically witty dialog scattered through it. And from that day onwards I was hooked.
                  Last edited by sueworld; 08-03-09, 10:07 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Of everything, I'd have to say the tragedy is my favorite thing in the franchise. I just love tragedy. I tend to like the more serious, dramatic characters. And the mythology is very important to me.

                    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                      A quick aside here. I remember seeing that episode at a advance screening at a convention in the UK years back, and when that line was said there were multiple cries of "Result!" from women in the audience which warmed my slashy heart that day. .
                      Splainy? Is "Result" a slashfic?

                      Can I add another category? "The Funny." That's what got me hooked.
                      Closely linked with The Funny is The Language: that the language sounds like usable slang, it really is Jossian, which should preserve it from some of the devaluation of actual slang & humorous reference.

                      Two of the earliest eps I saw were "The Zeppo" and "Hush". Xander's accidental automative decapitation of the zomboid gang member induced fits of laughter; and Giles' lurid transparents & the Scoobs' responses likewise.
                      Entrer dans la lumi?re comme un insecte fou respirer la poussi?re vous venir ? genoux - Patricia Kaas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                        Rather than "demonology", I would use "mythology". It's more than just "the study of demons", but a whole mythology with its own origin myth, various mythological creatures and mystical concepts.

                        I'd also substitute "relationships" rather than "romance", as romance is only one part of the relationships in the franchise. Overall, relationships would have to be my favorite. The human element.

                        And while we are at it, the Jossverse covers drama, relationships (including romance and family), tragedy, comedy, action, horror, mythology, etc... Even the occasional sci-fi.
                        Well you are right about comedy, that's one part I have just about zero interest in and I forgot, but yes, it was a major element in the series. I've edited the opening post to include comedy, but unfortunately I couldn't edit the title.

                        As what you said about demonology and mythology, because as far as the the characters are concerned, what they experience and encounter on daily basis are no myth, but actual demonic or supernatural beings and events, so I felt "demonology" is fitting since it's their reality.

                        It seems you broke the series down to more pieces than I did, I wanted to split it to as few pieces as possible. And the way I see it, the progress or deterioration in any kind of relationship(friendship or other kinds) is all pretty much has to do with morality, so I didn't single out "relationship." Maybe I'm wrong, it's just my opinion.

                        Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                        Can I add another category? "The Funny."
                        I think by "The Funny" you mean, as NileQT87 pointed out, "comedy,"
                        which I already made the update to include it in the beginning post.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mythology doesn't just mean "fake stories". Mythology is the beliefs of a person. It is a construct that explains how and why the world works the way it does. It is also used in the fantasy/sci-fi genre to mean the construct of the fantasy/sci-fi universe and its rules. "Mythology" is the word you are looking for, not "demonology".

                          "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                          "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I love all the elements, but I find myself more and more enthralled with the moral issues, with how the characters react or act in certain situations. And of course, they had to deal with their own personal demons in S6.

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                            • #15
                              I must admit, I'm also enamoured with the entirity of the show. I tended to post more about the mythology of the show and moral issues more than anything else. I also quite enjoyed character analyses.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
                                I love all the elements, but I find myself more and more enthralled with the moral issues, with how the characters react or act in certain situations. And of course, they had to deal with their own personal demons in S6.

                                Originally posted by kana View Post
                                I must admit, I'm also enamoured with the entirity of the show. I tended to post more about the mythology of the show and moral issues more than anything else. I also quite enjoyed character analyses.
                                It seems my interests of the show are the same as yours.

                                I feel one thing that makes the series intriguing is about the significance of presence of a soul, or soullessness due to a being's demonic nature. Which is related to both moral issues and demonology

                                And the moral issues from characters' interactions and ones in their lives.

                                Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                                ...."Mythology" is the word you are looking for, not "demonology".
                                Well.

                                English is not my first language, so I guess I should deferred to your opinion. However, the way I understand it; the element I identify is the unique part of the series created by Joss that is all about demons and anything to do with them, their history or origins, their nature...etc. So "study of demons" seems to be appropriate

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                                • #17
                                  Am I the only one who's going to vote for the Romance? Maybe I'm just a die hard romantic at heart, but that's what got me through the whole series. The love, or lack there of. I mean, in the early seasons, who didn't swoon every time Angel turned his broody eyes on the camera? And sure, we may have grown to dislike Riley, but when he first came on the scene, you know we were all on team Finn. He punched Parker in defense of Buffy's honor, and my heart just went all fluttery. And you don't have to be a fan of Spuffy to admit that, in season seven particularly, they had some truly high charged emotional encounters. And it doesn't end with just Buffy either.

                                  I cried with Willow when she found out Xander was seeing Cordilia. I pined for Oz, but still wanted a happily ever after for Xan and Willow. I lived and died by the tides of Tara, and, god help me, I even felt a grudging respect for Kennedy.

                                  The love in the show is what did it for me. Not just romantic love, but the love between all of them. The fatherly relationship between Giles and Buffy? The brotherly outlook that both Spike and Xander put on whenever Dawn is involved? The general feeling of Family when the Scoobies are together? That's Joss to me. That's BUFFY to me.

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                                  • #18
                                    Demonology doesn't completely include gods, Slayers, Watchers, the First Evil, W&H, etc... And vampires, werewolves, etc... are more "mythology" than "demonology" despite being demon-related--it's about their mythological rules and history more than just their physiology. Slayers, while their origin is demonic, are humans. Also, the PtBs and topics like that place it firmly in the "mythology" category. Mythology is the whole construct of why and how the world works rather than just telling different demons apart (which is what demonology in the show is).

                                    The "Demons, Demons, Demons" website is demonology. PtBs, gods, origin myths of pure demons, the first vampire created, the Slayer line, the Watchers' Council, etc... is mythology.

                                    And no, I'm sure you're not the only one that picks romance. The only thing better is dramatic, tragic romance. Basically, I'm a sucker for all things dramatic and tragic. Much in that category, but not limited to, is often of a romantic nature. Everything from the different kinds of relationships between Angel/Buffy, Angel/Darla and Wesley/Fred to the relationships between Angel/Connor, Angel/Holtz and Angel/Wesley.
                                    Last edited by NileQT87; 10-03-09, 07:14 AM.

                                    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It's the right mix of action/adventure, background mythology (personally prefer that term here too), characterisation of characters through relationships (not only romantic by far!) and atmosphere (darkness! give me darkness! ) that does it for me, and a sprinkling of humour is welcome, though not necessarily required.
                                      The raising of moral questions is of course appreciated but I kind of include that in the characterisations (because a clash of characters' beliefs and ethics serves very well to draw a picture of them).
                                      Sin is what I feast upon
                                      I'm forging my crematorium
                                      Your tomb is waiting here for you
                                      Welcome to my ritual

                                      -Judas Priest, Death

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Casi View Post
                                        I mean, in the early seasons, who didn't swoon every time Angel turned his broody eyes on the camera?
                                        *raises hand* Just saying, heterosexual male here. By definition, neither my heart nor any other body part goes aflutter because of any male.

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