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Does anyone else find that people in the Buffyverse take life way too seriously?

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  • Does anyone else find that people in the Buffyverse take life way too seriously?

    I just watched 'Smashed' and 'Wrecked' from Season 6 one more time, and it had made me so pissed off... At the end of the day, Willow and Amy had some serious fun, and who is anyone else to stop them? People are so eager to 'be good' and to act 'proper'... Why can't anyone have any fun any more? Why can't people just cast away their fears and inhibitions, and just not give a flying ****?
    The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

  • #2
    Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
    I just watched 'Smashed' and 'Wrecked' from Season 6 one more time, and it had made me so pissed off... At the end of the day, Willow and Amy had some serious fun, and who is anyone else to stop them? People are so eager to 'be good' and to act 'proper'... Why can't anyone have any fun any more? Why can't people just cast away their fears and inhibitions, and just not give a flying ****?
    Because Willow and Amy were hurting or affecting those around them? Willow's "fun" nearly got Dawn killed. If she wants to be irresponsible that's her choice but she shouldn't bring Dawn along to a very unhealthy, unsafe place and then take her on a joy ride whilst she's juiced up (god do I hate that very literal metaphor! )

    And neither of them had any right to physically alter others like they did in the bronze. Amy made a woman fall in love with Willow against her will, they both turned people into animals, into weird abnormalities with people being incredibly short or incredibly tall and they teleported one bad out of the Bronze to god knows where. They don't have a right to mess with people like that.

    They shouldn't have fun at the expense of others, that's when it becomes an issue.

    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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    • #3
      I guess that having the power to destroy the world and having the weight of the world on you back are responisbilities that you can't deny.

      ----------------------------------------
      edit:
      Or what Mogs just said.

      ----------------------------------------

      That and the writers were too extreme with the 'life is evil' metaphor. All the subtilty left the building.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
        I just watched 'Smashed' and 'Wrecked' from Season 6 one more time, and it had made me so pissed off... At the end of the day, Willow and Amy had some serious fun, and who is anyone else to stop them? People are so eager to 'be good' and to act 'proper'... Why can't anyone have any fun any more? Why can't people just cast away their fears and inhibitions, and just not give a flying ****?
        I agree with mogs that the "fun" in question was dangerous. But I do agree that fun itself often doesn't get a fair innings. Drinking is ALWAYS portrayed as bad - from Beer Bad to Willow's beers in Something Blue, which I think is a perfectly reasonable reaction to being dumped, and Buffy etc were just being killjoys. So, yes, I think the Buffyverse can sometimes paint fun as dangerous when actually fun is often, well, fun.


        -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
          I just watched 'Smashed' and 'Wrecked' from Season 6 one more time, and it had made me so pissed off... At the end of the day, Willow and Amy had some serious fun, and who is anyone else to stop them? People are so eager to 'be good' and to act 'proper'... Why can't anyone have any fun any more? Why can't people just cast away their fears and inhibitions, and just not give a flying ****?
          At the end of the day, all we have is our own sense of fun and adventure... Life is meant for the living, and people are so afraid of truly experiencing all that life can provide... If life gave me the chance to experience true power and control, I would take it in an instant... And boy, how this world would change...
          The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

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          • #6
            Isn't that what Faith did? Want - Take - Have ?
            It's fun but it doesn't save the world nor does it save you.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nina View Post
              Isn't that what Faith did? Want - Take - Have ?
              It's fun but it doesn't save the world nor does it save you.
              Does it 'save you'? No... But what is so good about being saved anyway? You can't tell me you all feel so differently. We all have a part of us that wants true power, that wants to control and master...

              It makes me sick all the people in this world that wander round so cluelessly, trying to steer their little lives in the right direction... They need someone to guide them...
              The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nina View Post
                Isn't that what Faith did? Want - Take - Have ?
                It's fun but it doesn't save the world nor does it save you.
                But the trouble is, they portrayed fun as something dangerous and corrosive (Buffy talks about Faith having so much fun on the job she ends up in a coma). They don't show that someone can party without things going horribly wrong - which is often a joke in itself of course: "I told one lie, I had one drink... and you were almost eaten by a giant snake. I think the words let that be a lesson are a tad redundant."

                The fact that they can't have no holds barred fun is, in part, built into the Scoobies' underworld-blighted life. When parties and clubs are places that vampires hang out, it's hard to truly let go perhaps?


                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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                • #9
                  I do agree that they seem to punish everybody who has fun of some kind. But there is a difference between using you powers to hurt others for your own fun, and go together to a club and party. Season 5-7 were way to heavy and life = evil was just not subtle enough.

                  Faith had fun for a while, until it went too far, the same for Willow. Now they have to deal with their own past and feel bad for what they did. Which makes their life less fun.

                  There is a difference between having normal fun and using your powers for fun (rape, robbing etc.).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                    But the trouble is, they portrayed fun as something dangerous and corrosive (Buffy talks about Faith having so much fun on the job she ends up in a coma). They don't show that someone can party without things going horribly wrong - which is often a joke in itself of course: "I told one lie, I had one drink... and you were almost eaten by a giant snake. I think the words let that be a lesson are a tad redundant."

                    The fact that they can't have no holds barred fun is, in part, built into the Scoobies' underworld-blighted life. When parties and clubs are places that vampires hang out, it's hard to truly let go perhaps?
                    I personally would rather have 5 minutes of fun and die smiling than spend an entire life just 'existing'... It really annoys me that Willow begs for forgiveness at the end of 'Wrecked'... She was so powerful, so free from the rules of society... So bound by the rules and soft morals of normal society. She was a god, and felt the way most people would give their lives to feel... I envy her, but she begged for forgiveness and felt sorry for the way she felt. She was a fool. She should have used her power as much as she could until it burnt out and destroyed her with it. I love Willow, she is my fave character in the whole series, but she needs to get a backbone and realise that she is one of the only people in the world with the power that matters...
                    The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
                      I personally would rather have 5 minutes of fun and die smiling than spend an entire life just 'existing'... It really annoys me that Willow begs for forgiveness at the end of 'Wrecked'... She was so powerful, so free from the rules of society... So bound by the rules and soft morals of normal society. She was a god, and felt the way most people would give their lives to feel... I envy her, but she begged for forgiveness and felt sorry for the way she felt. She was a fool. She should have used her power as much as she could until it burnt out and destroyed her with it. I love Willow, she is my fave character in the whole series, but she needs to get a backbone and realise that she is one of the only people in the world with the power that matters...
                      She begged for forgiveness because she nearly got Dawn killed in A) a car crash and B) a demon attack, both of which were ENTIRELY Willow's fault. In fact, when Buffy orders her to "get up", her tone suggests she would love to kick Willow's teeth down her throat. And WIllow would have deserved it. The "freedom" Willow was experiencing came with a complete lack of regard for the life, safety, and rights of anyone around her. Y'know, Dawn's right to have a fun and happy life. And Buffy's. And anyone else.

                      Similarly, in "Smashed" her and Amy's antics could have gotten a bunch of people killed. Just from what I remember, you had Amy basically brainwash a woman -- who would have been a victim of rape had Willow decided she did want to act on it just as surely as Katrina would have been. They either shape-changed or just replaced the band that night.

                      Really, if Willow was just fine in "Smashed", then her plan to shift everyone into another dimension in "All the Way" was fine. Really, there was nothing wrong with what she did to Tara in "All the Way" under your theory.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
                        I personally would rather have 5 minutes of fun and die smiling than spend an entire life just 'existing'...
                        I don't know about you but to me, Willow seemed pretty happy with her life throughout the majority of Btvs without needing to "feel like a god" or mess with other people to do it?

                        She was a fool. She should have used her power as much as she could until it burnt out and destroyed her with it.
                        You love Willow but you want to see her use her power to the point it "destroys her?" I must admit that's rather strange to me? You want Willow to kill herself in order to have some fun?

                        Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                        But the trouble is, they portrayed fun as something dangerous and corrosive (Buffy talks about Faith having so much fun on the job she ends up in a coma). They don't show that someone can party without things going horribly wrong - which is often a joke in itself of course: "I told one lie, I had one drink... and you were almost eaten by a giant snake. I think the words let that be a lesson are a tad redundant."

                        The fact that they can't have no holds barred fun is, in part, built into the Scoobies' underworld-blighted life. When parties and clubs are places that vampires hang out, it's hard to truly let go perhaps?
                        I do agree with you on this. I really loathe the Scoobie's reaction to Willow's drinking in 'Something Blue.' I mean, c'mon, it's ridiculous she got drunk so bloody what? I found it very unrealistic for kids of that age. But then I always thought the "beer is evil" metaphor of 'Beer Bad' to be one of the stupidest messages they ever did on the show.

                        ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                          She begged for forgiveness because she nearly got Dawn killed in A) a car crash and B) a demon attack, both of which were ENTIRELY Willow's fault. In fact, when Buffy orders her to "get up", her tone suggests she would love to kick Willow's teeth down her throat. And WIllow would have deserved it. The "freedom" Willow was experiencing came with a complete lack of regard for the life, safety, and rights of anyone around her. Y'know, Dawn's right to have a fun and happy life. And Buffy's. And anyone else.

                          Similarly, in "Smashed" her and Amy's antics could have gotten a bunch of people killed. Just from what I remember, you had Amy basically brainwash a woman -- who would have been a victim of rape had Willow decided she did want to act on it just as surely as Katrina would have been. They either shape-changed or just replaced the band that night.

                          Really, if Willow was just fine in "Smashed", then her plan to shift everyone into another dimension in "All the Way" was fine. Really, there was nothing wrong with what she did to Tara in "All the Way" under your theory.
                          Please, don't patronise me... In these episodes, Willow lived for herself, no one else really cared for her, not even Tara. No one else cares, you can only live your own life and make the world what you want it to be. The power that Willow had only makes that power one step more possible. No one else really cares about each other and their 'silly little' lives. You have to take care of yourself. No one else cares. Do not kid yourself that they do. Take charge of your life for yourself, do what you want, when you want. It's the only way to be happy...
                          The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

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                          • #14
                            Man that yellow-crayon speech must really chap your bum, huh?

                            So, can we put you down as being in favor of everything Warren did as well, the mind-control, attempted rape, and murder of Katrina? His attempted murder of Buffy and murder of Tara? I mean, he had the brains and the power to pull these things off, therefore he presumably was entitled to do them?

                            A tractor trailer can run over pretty much every vehicle on a crowded highway -- if it pleases the driver to do so, ought he? Or drive up on the sidewalk and crush a row of baby carriages because he's never appreciated how much kids cry?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
                              Please, don't patronise me... In these episodes, Willow lived for herself, no one else really cared for her, not even Tara. No one else cares, you can only live your own life and make the world what you want it to be. The power that Willow had only makes that power one step more possible. No one else really cares about each other and their 'silly little' lives. You have to take care of yourself. No one else cares. Do not kid yourself that they do. Take charge of your life for yourself, do what you want, when you want. It's the only way to be happy...
                              Cool. So, next time someone cuts me off in traffic, I'll just take my .45 from it's shoulder holster and make the world what I want it to be by removing one idiot from the highway...
                              "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
                                Take charge of your life for yourself, do what you want, when you want. It's the only way to be happy...
                                But to Willow, it isn't. It made her miserable. Did Willow look particularly happy when she was crying in the shower, when she was hugging a Tara shaped body she had to make for herself?

                                In fact the very idea you've just stated is what makes Willow totally unhappy in 'Dopplegangland' when Vamp Willow acts in this manner;

                                Willow: Between me and my evil self, I've got double guilt coupons. I see now where the path of vice leads. I mean, she messed up everything she touched. I don't ever want to be like that.

                                ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                                  Man that yellow-crayon speech must really chap your bum, huh?

                                  So, can we put you down as being in favor of everything Warren did as well, the mind-control, attempted rape, and murder of Katrina? His attempted murder of Buffy and murder of Tara? I mean, he had the brains and the power to pull these things off, therefore he presumably was entitled to do them?

                                  A tractor trailer can run over pretty much every vehicle on a crowded highway -- if it pleases the driver to do so, ought he? Or drive up on the sidewalk and crush a row of baby carriages because he's never appreciated how much kids cry?
                                  I actually used to be a compassionate and loving person. The world made me so cynical. I care about those who have no other choice (children and animals), but I have no sympathy for adults. People make their lives what they want them to be, and in most cases are so afraid of the consequences that they do not follow their hearts and desires. They trudge along, living the path that has been trodden before them and following the signs. Trek off the beaten trail people, make your own path...
                                  The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by jdt1986 View Post
                                    I actually used to be a compassionate and loving person. The world made me so cynical. I care about those who have no other choice (children and animals), but I have no sympathy for adults. People make their lives what they want them to be, and in most cases are so afraid of the consequences that they do not follow their hearts and desires. They trudge along, living the path that has been trodden before them and following the signs. Trek off the beaten trail people, make your own path...
                                    Does your failure to even address the questions posed constitute an implicit admission that your philosophy can't come up with a single reason not to rape and murder whoever it pleases you to rape or murder as long as you have a decent chance of getting away with it? Or the trucker could run over the adults, but most swerve to avoid children and animals?

                                    Really, are you good with what Parker did to Buffy? What Warren did to Katrina?
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                                      Does your failure to even address the questions posed constitute an implicit admission that your philosophy can't come up with a single reason not to rape and murder whoever it pleases you to rape or murder as long as you have a decent chance of getting away with it? Or the trucker could run over the adults, but most swerve to avoid children and animals?

                                      Really, are you good with what Parker did to Buffy? What Warren did to Katrina?
                                      I care about people who cannot protect themselves and have no other choice or influence. Everyone else has a choice and is 100% responsible for their actions. And they should expect the consequences. Rape and murder are not acceptable, except to those who deserve it in return. An eye for an eye. THAT is the most appropriate way to live. If you kill with intent to kill, you deserve to die yourself.
                                      jdt1986
                                      Hellmouth Tourist
                                      Last edited by jdt1986; 14-01-09, 01:33 PM.
                                      The master wants you. Throw away your cross, face the master. Your faith against his faith... Could you do that? Is your faith enough?... Then do it... Throw away the cross. Face the master. Faith against faith...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        "His girlfriend cut off her toe!"

                                        "It's not fair!"

                                        "Fair?! Who's the @#$%in' nihilists around here, you bunch of crybabies?"

                                        -- The Big Lebowski

                                        Here is where you run into the problem of wanting all the fun of a completely self-indulgent power-driven Nitzschean existence and none of the commitment. If power determines the scope of your actions, than all that's needed for one to "deserve" rape or murder is your ability and willingness to do it. Likewise, if Willow can wipe Tara's memory and turn her into her puppet, or the Trio want to use their toy to rape Katrina (and they meant to turn this on Buffy, if you'll recall), then they have all the justification they need. They are just using the power they have to do what makes them happy.
                                        KingofCretins
                                        What?
                                        Last edited by KingofCretins; 14-01-09, 01:36 PM.
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