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Enyos and his lack of perspective

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  • Enyos and his lack of perspective

    When watching Surprise/Innocence with my sister, it occurred to me that the claim Enyos brings up, that nobody has suffered as much from Angelus than his people has... is plain ridiculous. What Angelus did was kill a clan leader's daughter. Yes, that's murder. Yes, that's bad. But he also killed his own entire family, his entire village, if I'm not much mistaken, slaughtered whole "monastery-populations"... and Enyos is so self-centered that he entirely fails to see that the harm Angelus did was inflicted upon a lot of people actually, and his dwelling on one casualty alone seems rather petty in comparison.
    (And it was Darla, Drusilla ad Spike who took out pretty much the entire clan afterwards, if I remember it correctly, Angelus was souled already at this point.)
    Also, eternal vengeance? His niece tells him Angel has started to do good because of Buffy, and all Enyos can think of is "Get the girl away from him so he can suffer some more"? What good is Angel to innocent people out there if he is moping around in dark alleys eating rats?

    And of course there is a major flaw in his keep-Angel-unhappy scheme if he does not make sure Angel is told he would lose his soul in a moment of perfect happiness, because that would actually make him afraid and, there you go, a lot more unhappy. But of course someone who runs around with viewpoints as those named above can't be much of a thinker...

    What are your opinions on this character?
    Sin is what I feast upon
    I'm forging my crematorium
    Your tomb is waiting here for you
    Welcome to my ritual

    -Judas Priest, Death

  • #2
    Like lots of people in the Real World, he was a complete idiot - and so were the other clan elders who dreamed up Angel's curse. If someone has wronged you to the point where you can't bear the thought of their existence, friggin' kill'em, already. Their obsession with "Eternal Vengeance" to the exclusion of everything else left open not only the possibility but the probability of Angelus's someday re-emerging, and that callous disregard for other innocent lives - including Jenny's - got Enyos exactly what he deserved.
    "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bloodsucker View Post
      When watching Surprise/Innocence with my sister, it occurred to me that the claim Enyos brings up, that nobody has suffered as much from Angelus than his people has... is plain ridiculous. What Angelus did was kill a clan leader's daughter. Yes, that's murder. Yes, that's bad. But he also killed his own entire family, his entire village, if I'm not much mistaken, slaughtered whole "monastery-populations"... and Enyos is so self-centered that he entirely fails to see that the harm Angelus did was inflicted upon a lot of people actually, and his dwelling on one casualty alone seems rather petty in comparison.
      Well said, your right from what we have been told on the show the damage that Angelus inflicted on the gyspies was not to the same level as the damage he has inflicted on others. Hell, I would say the gyspy girl got off easy when you consider what he did to Drusilla. But your approaching this from an analythetical point of view. Don't forget for Enyos and the gyspy people this was personal. When tragedy like this strikes, people tend to think of how much they have been hurt. They don't tend to go like 'Well I suppose its not too bad I mean only the one girl was murdered in comparision to the village' no in most cases the pain of the person themselves is focused on.

      Also another thing you shouldn't forget all of this happened over a hundred years ago and yet the gyspy people still haven't forgotten about it. Members of Enyos gyspy clan were likely indoctruniated from a young age to hate Angelus and what he had done to their leaders daughter. In fact for all we know that might have been the only crime of Angelus Enyos could have learnt about growing up as his elders may not have felt he needed to know much about the stuff that didn't personally affect them.

      Originally posted by Bloodsucker View Post
      (And it was Darla, Drusilla ad Spike who took out pretty much the entire clan afterwards, if I remember it correctly, Angelus was souled already at this point.)
      Also, eternal vengeance? His niece tells him Angel has started to do good because of Buffy, and all Enyos can think of is "Get the girl away from him so he can suffer some more"? What good is Angel to innocent people out there if he is moping around in dark alleys eating rats?
      Ah but you see your talking as though the gyspy clan gave Angel his soul back so that he could be a champion. They didn't, all they wanted was for him to feel suffering for what he had done. The fact that he had managed to with a lot of help admittedly turn a bad situation around and start to help people didn't matter to them. He could pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as he suffered for the pain that he caused them.

      Originally posted by Bloodsucker View Post
      And of course there is a major flaw in his keep-Angel-unhappy scheme if he does not make sure Angel is told he would lose his soul in a moment of perfect happiness, because that would actually make him afraid and, there you go, a lot more unhappy. But of course someone who runs around with viewpoints as those named above can't be much of a thinker...

      What are your opinions on this character?
      and that last point of course is the one that I can't make any excuses for. Your right he should have just told Angel about the curses clause and that would have stopped him in his tracks from experiencing that perfect moment of happiness with Buffy. I think that bit was just not properly thought out by the writers as, if Angel had of been warned the rest of season 2 would have been very different. Which I'm sure most fans would agree would most likely not have been a good thing.
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      • #4
        Yep agreed with all the above, he admitted it: It's not justice he's serving it's vengeance.

        Enyos however does not actually claim that the vegeance is petty nor personal (in regards to him as an individual). He states clearly is not the 'tit for tat' concept but a living thing. This would imply either a respect for Fate above that of justice (was Angel destined to lose his soul for the grander scheme of causality) or he is talking about a the concept in the sense of collectivism. His own feelings of justice wouldn't matter nor would Jenny's. While Jenny defends Angel from the larger perspective in terms of justice she also talks to Giles and the others about the loyalty she was brought up with. Enyos clearly holds familial identity above all reason under this theory.

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        • #5
          If you pursue vengeance regardless of the consequences for countless innocent people then you count as one of the bad guys. I am sure that many, if not most bad guys, start out in this fashion.

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          • #6
            If you listen to Joss' commentary, he acknowledges that Angel's curse doesn't make much sense, but that he was able to write himself out of the corner he'd trapped himself in with the whole 'it is not justice we serve; it is vengeance' speech.

            Enyos' world isn't like other people's. He and his people have no interest in Angel's being able to do good. They care only for punishment:
            To the modern man vengeance is a verb, an idea. Payback. One thing for another. Like commerce. Not with us. Vengeance is a living thing. It passes through generations. It commands. It kills.

            So, from that POV - a POV wherein the things that happened to one's people 100 years ago are as real and important today as the things that happened yesterday (sometimes more so) - it does make a certain kind of sense to curse Angel this way. Yes, it would make more sense to curse him with no deactivation clause, but the need to monitor and prevent the trigger from occuring wouldn't really phase them.
            Cordially,
            Amuk

            I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
            Addicted to Buffy

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