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  • Without You Everything Falls Apart...

    So someone (Buffyholic maybe?) mentioned how it's so great that after all these years we're all still here discussing Buffy, speculating about Buffy, Buffy the endure-er.

    But...I have to say, without Season Eight, I'm not sure the "comfort zone" would really be there (for me) to allow for discussion and speculation of all things Buffy. The only other show that I've ever been *really* devoted to was X-files, and once it ended, despite the new movie, most of the speculation and discussion has just...stopped. Everyone talks about Heroes or Fringe or something else now (Dollhouse soon enough). I just picked up this new X-files comic which is supposed to take place during X-files seasons 1-3 (alla Buffy Animated), but I doubt it's really going to move the masses of old X-philes (certainly it won't me) to start bantering about the future prospects of those characters.

    Point is, do you think all of you would still be excited about and still be speculating on Buffy and the Scoobs if Season Eight didn't exist?

    About six months ago my girlfriend had been laid off from Lehman Brothers and so we took the opprotunity to watch the entire series of Buffy (she'd only seen a few episodes), and after sobbing for about 3 days because of the whole Spike thing (we haven't watched the entire series of Angel yet), she picked up the comic and is now a faithful reader. We discuss the comic book series the way my sister and I used to talk about the television series.

    If the comic never existed, though, I doubt the memory or repeated viewings of Buffy would really entice the same kind of discussion as does the unknown future stuff that is Season Eight's current arc.

    Anyway, I hope the comic and/or animated series continues until we're all old and gray. It's rare (or, yeah -- has never really been done, right?) where you get to still visit your favorite characters and get a sneak peek at their lives after the television goes black, as most times novelizations (Star Trek, Star Wars, X-files and various other sci-fi/adventure series) and any random limited comic series isn't usually being hand held by the show's creator(s).

    I say if the X-men can survive 40 years, why not Buffy!?


  • #2
    Buffy Endures because it never gets old. I watch the entire show about every 7 months. and watch all of Angel about once a year.

    I do not think the comic really was necessary for me to still be discussing it.

    but then again I am new here.
    ===Quote of the day===
    "To read makes our speaking English good"

    Xander

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    • #3
      Point is, do you think all of you would still be excited about and still be speculating on Buffy and the Scoobs if Season Eight didn't exist?
      For me personally yes, it would have been 'business as usual' in my part of online fandom. But then I don't particularly like season 8 all that much.

      I do think however that for some it would have mattered a great deal more If it hadn't been done. Many are fans are really in to it, and see it as something new to discuss every few months or so. So yes, for others I think it has helped keep this fandom active that little bit longer.

      For how long is another matter entirely.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bloody Billy View Post
        Buffy Endures because it never gets old. I watch the entire show about every 7 months. and watch all of Angel about once a year.

        I do not think the comic really was necessary for me to still be discussing it.

        but then again I am new here.

        Wow. That's...epic.

        I've only ever seen the entire series 3 times since it aired. I wonder if it was/is more difficult for people to read Season Eight who don't currently read other comic books. I think the writing this season is as strong as it's ever been, and the scope is certainly much more grand. Again, though, if you don't read other comic books every month, it might be challenging to read/view the characters rather than simply viewing them per usual.

        I think that's amazing, though, that even without the comic books there's people that would still be discussing these shows so vehmently. I, for one, only went in search of a forum because of Season Eight. I haven't searched for a Buffy forum since back when the show was airing.

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        • #5
          Absolutely yes for me. The comic was the reason I started to join the online, a huge part being that so few people I knew read it and I wanted to discuss it with others.
          sigpic

          Banner Set by thedothatgirl

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          • #6
            Excepting the occasional Serenity miniseries, S8 is the only current comic I read monthly. And I like it a lot. But it isn't why I'm here (or on slayalive or whedonesque, for that matter) still talking about the show.

            I watch the whole of both series at least once per year (usually with a friend who I'm assimilating into the Buffy collective), with random episodes or commentary in between when I need a fix. I'm working my way through the Omnibus volumes of the old comics (which I actually tend to like more than S8, on the whole). I'm also running a campaign in the Buffy RPG. Suffice it to say, I'm too far gone for mercy; Buffy is on my mind all the time. So this site, in particular, has become a daily haunt because, well, I'm kind of obsessed (my Facebook Buffy trivia score alone strongly suggests that I'm sick) and there are a bunch of you that are just as bad off as me here.
            Cordially,
            Amuk

            I didn't jump. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.
            Addicted to Buffy

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            • #7
              The comic book gave me the opportunity to take part in a live Buffy fandom for the first time, for which I'm eternally grateful. Being able to speculate about and discuss new Buffy stories with other fans is amazing. I got into the show in late 2005/early 2006, just when the fandom was at it's deadest. There was plenty of discussion still going on, but it was all re-hash and mostly about Spuffy. Nothing wrong with that, and I loved it at the time, but I'm glad that the fandom got a shot of life.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Chamber005 View Post
                Wow. That's...epic.

                I've only ever seen the entire series 3 times since it aired.

                Due to the jolly old Sci-Fi channel in the UK I watch Angel once a day. Buffy I watch now and again, mainly to screencap for artworks, but it's a great way of reminding me of the greatness of that show and why I still talk about it and it's characters after all this time.

                I've been involved in online fandom for five years now, and my interest still hasn't waned yet.

                I think that's amazing, though, that even without the comic books there's people that would still be discussing these shows so vehemently.
                A lot of fans on lj don't even read the comics and they're still going strong, with new people joining the fandom after discovering it on DVD.
                sueworld
                Banned
                Last edited by sueworld; 20-11-08, 10:43 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chamber005 View Post
                  do you think all of you would still be excited about and still be speculating on Buffy and the Scoobs if Season Eight didn't exist?
                  Personally, yes. I follow the comic books very randomly anyway and I actually haven't made up my mind yet whether, deep down in my heart, I consider them canon or just an alternate reality. I mean, yes I know that they're officially canon and all but since they're not on TV-screen I sort of feel I have a right to choose and I haven't made up my mind yet.

                  Now actually how long will I remain active fan, I don't know. I watched Buffy and loved it when it aired. Then there was quite a long pause where I basically forgot about it and something like two years ago I sort of re-discovered Buffy. It just came up in some conversation and I remembered how much I loved the show and wondered if I'd still love it as much. So I started rewatching. It didn't take much before I was truly, deeply, madly hooked and then went online of course. I joined this lovely forum less than year ago.
                  At the present moment BtVS and AtS are quite important in my life. I do spend time here in BF, I think about Buffy-related topics, I read Buffy-related literature, some fanfiction too.
                  But I've got no idea how long will it last. Perhaps at some point I'll gradually start needing less and less Buffyverse every day... who knows. But I think it's quite safe to say that I'll never be as obsessed about a TV-show as about BtVS.
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                  banner by litzie avatar by diane

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by missperoxide View Post
                    But I think it's quite safe to say that I'll never be as obsessed about a TV-show as about BtVS.
                    I can swear to that now, easily.
                    sigpic

                    Banner Set by thedothatgirl

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                    • #11
                      Never been involved in any other fandom before or since (notice that I've only posted once or twice to other series threads here, even the ones that I actually watch.) I'm still hanging out on the "Buffy" newsgroup; I probably should have left when everyone else did, but occasionally someone new finds the place and a whole round of discussions starts again. I not only have all the DVDs, I have most of the series in Region 2 wide-screen that I burned to disk. Keep a few of my favorite episodes handy for random viewing in between marathons. So... yeah, I'd still be interested, although I find lots of the internet forums virtually worthless. At least, on the newsgroups you can killfile trolls, spammers, and posters that get on your last nerve (not to mention entire threads that you have no interest in.)
                      Rowan Hawthorn
                      Hellmouth Tourist
                      Last edited by Rowan Hawthorn; 21-11-08, 03:10 AM. Reason: Missed parenthesis
                      "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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                      • #12
                        Well, I've been a fan since the summer of 2004 (I suck at timing) and I joined Buffyworld (our previous home) back in 2005.

                        As a person whose entire time with the online fan community has been after the end of the shows, it was actually extremely active for two dead shows who really didn't have much hope of returning (the comics weren't even on our radar). The fact that the series was left so open-ended with so many unanswered questions really kept the community going for years... And here we are. The BtVS/AtS communities are far from dead.

                        I've occasionally looked at some other show forums... A lot of them are practically dead.

                        The closest I can compare the Joss community to is perhaps Star Wars or Lord of the Rings... Perhaps on a more below-the-radar scale, but the fans are just as dedicated and obsessed. Though, I find Joss fans to be less bitchy than Star Wars fans (Prequels vs. Original--the fans just don't mesh--ditto with the problematic topic of George Lucas). Even with our ultimate Bangel vs. Spuffy arguments, we don't feel like we are falling apart--we're still looking forward to getting an answer! We don't have nearly the level of dispiriting that I perceive in other fandoms. Joss is at least still popular with his own fans. I would say that the Star Wars fanbase is a lot more disillusioned and fragmented right now than the Joss fanbase.

                        The Harry Potter fanbase seems to have turned into the Twilight fanbase.

                        Yet, the BtVS/AtS fanbase still is talking on topic and still arguing over 11+-year-old (almost 12-year-old) minutia. Occasionally, we talk about 16-year-old minutia. We're not doing bad in terms of longevity. And we have far more of a new story to look forward to and pick apart than most fandoms, because the story is still being written--and with more effort to keep it cohesive and main character-focused than other fandoms with an expanded universe. It's one of the few expanded universe fandoms where the creator is still marginally involved (and hasn't jumped a whole tank of sharks yet), the guest writers actually care about the cohesion and the main characters and story are still the main characters and story.

                        I've been in a lot of fandoms. This is my longest running after Elvis Presley (now, there is a fandom known for its 54-year longevity!).

                        I'll be happy if BtVS/AtS makes it to 20 years. I think it could.

                        The secret of keeping the fanbase going is to keep doling out new information, new stories or new recordings/clips (in the fandoms of performers). The doling-out is the key. You stop doling and the fans start getting disillusioned and nothing is keeping them from moving on. The comics are definitely keeping the fandom going right now and they are even making us question information we thought we had argued to death years ago. We still have questions and are still getting answers. Some of the fandoms that are taking hits are ones where people don't feel like they have anything new to discuss.

                        This is particularly a problem with book series, shows or movies that have a definite end. The difference with BtVS/AtS is that they never really had an ending or an end and are now still ongoing. Once it feels like there is a final end, the fandom will enter its post-ending phase--which in the case of famous people sometimes makes them even bigger (particularly those who have untold stories to be discovered, scandals or end up with tragic or conspiracy-laden deaths), but fiction works a bit differently. BtVS/AtS largely has gotten rid of its fairweather fans already (a lot didn't make the jump to the new forum). That's the first bunch that you'll lose. They liked the show or a character in it, but probably aren't even aware of the comics. The fairweather fans are the kind that pile in and then dissipate after a few years, leaving the die-hards. The effort now is keeping the die-hards and creating new ones. Doling out comic continuations for Joss is working really well. He knows that his fans are geeky enough to make the jump to comics and he and his fellow Mutant Enemy staff are geeky enough where it seems like a fluid transition.

                        CSI and American Idol might be the ratings juggernauts that television execs want, but two little, geeky canceled WB shows are certainly doing gangbusters in the comic world. I'm also pretty sure that the DVD sales are better for the various scripted geek shows.

                        It doesn't hurt that BtVS and AtS have roughly 190 hours of footage to scour for minutia. There's a movie, 11 1/2 television seasons, an expanded universe in varying levels of canonocity, a collectibles line, fandom conventions and 2 more seasons in comics. And Joss also pulls in different groups through Firefly/Serenity and hopefully Dollhouse--who hopefully then check out BtVS/AtS.

                        Movie fandoms have initially larger audiences, but television has the gift of many more hours to tell a story and more to discuss.

                        According to the numbers on fanfiction.net, we also have some of the most prolific fanficcers of almost any fandom. Only a handful beat us.
                        NileQT87
                        The Dark Avenger
                        Last edited by NileQT87; 21-11-08, 05:27 AM.

                        "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                        "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bloody Billy View Post
                          Buffy Endures because it never gets old. I watch the entire show about every 7 months. and watch all of Angel about once a year.

                          I do not think the comic really was necessary for me to still be discussing it.

                          but then again I am new here.
                          Wow, that is just awesome! I?ve been a fan of Buffy since 2005 and I?ve been collecting ever since that time. And I love Buffy since then, and I haven?t read the comics yet, so for me it?s the writing, the characters, the episodes that always make me fall in love with the show. And then I found Angel, another "drug". So, if I stay one month without my fix, I go wild because I absolutely love the show and the characters. And I hope Buff/Angel stick around for a while.
                          Buffy is my number one love. Angel is my second.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
                            Wow, that is just awesome! I?ve been a fan of Buffy since 2005 and I?ve been collecting ever since that time. And I love Buffy since then, and I haven?t read the comics yet, so for me it?s the writing, the characters, the episodes that always make me fall in love with the show. And then I found Angel, another "drug". So, if I stay one month without my fix, I go wild because I absolutely love the show and the characters. And I hope Buff/Angel stick around for a while.
                            Buffy is my number one love. Angel is my second.
                            Hup!

                            You haven't read the comic book yet?!

                            Get your butt to ebay right now and order the first three trades!!

                            (They're totally more fun to read in trade form. I bought all the comics as they came out, but then gave them all to my sister and so bought the trades. The trades are WAY better reads, especially because of all the DarkHorse ads in the comics)

                            Originally posted by missperoxide View Post
                            Personally, yes. I follow the comic books very randomly anyway and I actually haven't made up my mind yet whether, deep down in my heart, I consider them canon or just an alternate reality. I mean, yes I know that they're officially canon and all but since they're not on TV-screen I sort of feel I have a right to choose and I haven't made up my mind yet.

                            Now actually how long will I remain active fan, I don't know. I watched Buffy and loved it when it aired. Then there was quite a long pause where I basically forgot about it and something like two years ago I sort of re-discovered Buffy. It just came up in some conversation and I remembered how much I loved the show and wondered if I'd still love it as much. So I started rewatching. It didn't take much before I was truly, deeply, madly hooked and then went online of course. I joined this lovely forum less than year ago.
                            At the present moment BtVS and AtS are quite important in my life. I do spend time here in BF, I think about Buffy-related topics, I read Buffy-related literature, some fanfiction too.
                            But I've got no idea how long will it last. Perhaps at some point I'll gradually start needing less and less Buffyverse every day... who knows. But I think it's quite safe to say that I'll never be as obsessed about a TV-show as about BtVS.
                            Mmmmmmmmm...no. Nope.

                            ::: thinks about it :::

                            Yeah, no. We don't get to decide what is canon in the BU. I think if the creator says that it's canon, it's canon. If George Lucas says that the new animated "Clone Wars" movie is canon, it's canon. If Chris Carter says the new X-files comic is canon, it's canon.

                            I think you can take all those random Buffy comics that came out while the series was operational with a grain of salt, but this is Season Eight. It's not Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Slayer Chronicles, or some crap. It's Season Eight. It's a new season, it's just utilizing a different medium. The only way we could have an argument is if the original series was "Buffy the Vampire Slayer the Television Series, Season One..." etc. There's no deliberation or cause for debate on this one. It's Joss's decision. If a movie ever comes out, animated or otherwise, or a new series, we will be expected to have *read* this Season as much as we'd be expected to have *watched* the previous 7.

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                            • #15
                              I haven't read any of Season 8 partly because I felt the series ended in the right place with Sunnydale collapsing and partly because I don't think I would enjoy it as much as watching it on TV. I think the writing is what has kept the show alive, Buffy has a little of every genre in it and so I never get bored, me and my mum usually watch Buffy and Angel once a year and I have been watching the show since it first aired in the UK.

                              I am a huge TV fan and I have a lot of shows to watch but none of them compete with this show.
                              sigpic

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Chamber005
                                If a movie ever comes out, animated or otherwise, or a new series, we will be expected to have *read* this Season as much as we'd be expected to have *watched* the previous 7.
                                ...not necessarily.

                                Joss Whedon: But if I had to shoot down everything I'm doing in comics because we were doing a project, a film with these actual people... I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep. (PaleyFest, 2008)

                                (set made by Francy for me)

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by carousel_girl8 View Post
                                  I haven't read any of Season 8 partly because I felt the series ended in the right place with Sunnydale collapsing and partly because I don't think I would enjoy it as much as watching it on TV. I think the writing is what has kept the show alive, Buffy has a little of every genre in it and so I never get bored, me and my mum usually watch Buffy and Angel once a year and I have been watching the show since it first aired in the UK.

                                  I am a huge TV fan and I have a lot of shows to watch but none of them compete with this show.
                                  But if it's the writing -- the same people who wrote the show are the ones working on Season Eight (and, including, some of the better comic writers in the industry)

                                  Originally posted by Enisy View Post
                                  ...not necessarily.

                                  Joss Whedon: But if I had to shoot down everything I'm doing in comics because we were doing a project, a film with these actual people... I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep. (PaleyFest, 2008)
                                  You don't think that simply means that he would stop doing the comic book if he had a chance to do a film? I'm not sure he's saying that the comic book is neither here nor there in the mythology.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Chamber005
                                    You don't think that simply means that he would stop doing the comic book if he had a chance to do a film? I'm not sure he's saying that the comic book is neither here nor there in the mythology.
                                    Ah, no, that's not what he meant. I should have probably included the full quote:

                                    Joss Whedon: Hypothetically, if you could make things align, that would be fun. I ended up when I was doing the comic, I wrote a comic [Fray] which takes place 200 years in the future thinking there is no way this can ever affect the show and so it'll be safe. And then we ended up using a little of that... with the scythe [in Buffy] and so [I feel] kind of an obligation to look into that mythology. And it would be lovely to make it all tie in. But if I had to shoot down everything I'm doing in comics because we were doing a project, a film with these actual people... I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep.

                                    Watch the video if you want the full effect (his expression and his Sarcastic Voice in "...I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep").

                                    (set made by Francy for me)

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                                    • #19
                                      But, let's not forget, he didn't say that he would definitely discard the comics if he got the chance to do a film, he said "if I had to." I think people are maybe hanging a little too much on that quote.
                                      "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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                                      • #20
                                        ::: sigh :::

                                        Last post on this side, as it pertains to Season Eight --

                                        I'm telling you, if Joss ever did a Buffy movie or what-have-you, ultimate fanboy that he is, the man would find a way to not utterly destroy all that he's done in this current season and in Fray. If I'm wrong, and Joss is just that incapable of original and imaginatory thought, you have my word, I will sell everything Buffy that I own for 1 cent on ebay.

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