Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Buffy as the "first" vs. the scoobies.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Buffy as the "first" vs. the scoobies.

    This question has been reoccuring to me, but something from another thread made me think of it again.

    How come the "first" never came to the scoobies, as buffy??? I can't come up with an answer to save my life?? The first could've made dawn think that her "mother" was right about not trusting buffy. The first could've made willow think that buffy didnt trust her not to kill people!!! The first could've creating great conflict between buffy and faith, or lied to the potentials about something horrible or lead them to their death even!!! Does anyone else have any feedback as to why buffy was never shown as the first to the scoobies??

  • #2
    Oh, that would have been great. You're right! If The First only came to people as hallucinations, then why not come to the Scoobies? That would've been great.

    I really don't have an answer for you, but it would've made sense.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think it would have really worked for the First. The First was at its most effective when the target either A) already knew it was the First, or B) didn't know the person it was appearing as very well. In the case of Buffy and the Scoobies, I don't think the First would have been able to really convince them it was definitely her while still saying anything that would undermine them. It worked on Andrew because he wanted to believe it, even though he admitted he knew it wasn't true. It worked on the Potentials as Eve because they didn't know Eve at all anyway.
      sigpic
      Banner by LRae12

      Comment


      • #4
        I guess maybe there would've been convicing to the scoobies that it was indeed "buffy" but that's another thing. Willow even said it, that the first knew them... it knew their fears, and secrets, it could of easily been buffy. Another thing is, the first should've messed with buffy when it came to spike. Spike is dead, it couldve made her think that spike was not a good man.

        Comment


        • #5
          They missed so many chances with the first, this is one of them I guess. The first could've changed more often in Joyce, Buffy, The Mayor, Dru etc. but also in Jenny, Angel or Angelus, Tara, Jesse, Snyder, Spike, familymembers who died and maybe even Cordelia (I'm not sure how alive she still was at that point).

          I mean, can you imagine Willow being alone while First!Harmony or first!Cordelia are talking to her about her being not good enough etc. Xander getting a hard time when the first looks like Jesse or Angel(us) standing in the room when Spike and Buffy are together. That would be much better than some of the things we saw.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think they really would've liked to do more things with The First, but it was all due to budget limitations/cast availability that they couldn't do as much as they would've liked. That's what I've heard anyway.

            But you definitely have a point - what everyone has mentioned are just a few of the multiple missed opportunities with The First.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would have loved an episode with The First wearing Buffy's face and screwing with the Scoobies' heads. Wow, how Empty Places would have made much more sense.
              Made by Trickyboxes
              Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

              Comment


              • #8
                I don?t know, I think the First as "Buffy" worked pretty well, and maybe if that happened, it would have caused even more tension and mistrust.
                So, good thinking!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well whenever i was watching season 7 the first time when it aired on tv.. i kept thinking "oh man buffy is going to be the first and is gonna mess up some stuff royally" but it never happened! And just recently i rewatched the entire series,and thought to myself.. Why is the first buffy only showing to spike?? That in theory would be the firsts' biggest weopon.. using first buffy against them and making them believe different things. Ecspecially when it comes to the potentials who didnt know buffy well enough to know she was or wasnt the first. First buffy couldve tried to lead them into a trap or something.. the first was dissapionting i felt, they just didnt use all the opportunites that they could have. but i do understand about being over budget.. but.. SMG pretty much already at their fingers tips.... i just felt like that was an untapped resource they never used.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    if the budget was the problem;

                    Spike could be interesting as well, First!Spike could set the scoobies against the real Spike, but also play into their fears that Buffy replaced them with Spike. JM was there anyway.

                    But DB was also there in End of Days and Chosen. Why couldn't he play the first for one scene? A very nice excuse to bring back Angelus.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't think that would've worked. As we saw with Cassie Newton when she visited Willow she went too far and Willow realised it wasn't really Cassie or Tara she was speaking to, now if they had Buffy turning up to them discouraging them or just completely going against them then they would've clicked instantly and either assumed Buffy was evil or that something wasn't right.

                      That said, there are quite a few key points when the First as Buffy could've gone to see some of the Scoobies, maybe after Buffy was kicked out of her house in Empty Places, the First!Buffy could've gone to Willow or Dawn to rub in what they had done, saying things such as "It's okay Dawn, I understand why you have to do this... although you should warn the others to prepare to battle because if The First finds out that I'm not here anymore, who knows what might happen?"
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        EXACTLY MATT!! Exactly where i am going here! First!Buffy couldve made people turn on each other. Oh First!Angelus would've been awesome! Spike as the first i feel wouldve been played out. Im glad they didnt make him come to buffy as the first.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The First as "Buffy" only showed itself to Spike just to mess with his head, make him doubt his ability to do good and make him embrace his evil side. In "Sleeper" Spike was drinking a victim and the First/Buffy appeared to him, telling him to push him further, to let his demon side run loose. And who better than Buffy/First to show his face to Spike, considering all they went through.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by buffyholic View Post
                            The First as "Buffy" only showed itself to Spike just to mess with his head, make him doubt his ability to do good and make him embrace his evil side. In "Sleeper" Spike was drinking a victim and the First/Buffy appeared to him, telling him to push him further, to let his demon side run loose. And who better than Buffy/First to show his face to Spike, considering all they went through.
                            And what about all the things Buffy and the Scoobies went through for seven years?

                            I agree with the others, it could have been used to better effect. They could have had Buffy show up to place doubts into Willow's head that Buffy will never really trust her again after the events of season six, or to tell Willow she always was and always will be inferior to Buffy. It could have appeared to Xander as Buffy taunting him about how she never loved him back, how she slept with two vampires, how he's useless to her and always has been. It could have appeared to Dawn saying how she's a burden to Buffy, how Buffy could never really love her because she isn't real, how without Dawn in the picture Buffy and her mother would have been happier...

                            There's so many things they could have done with First/Buffy that they didn't do. As goes for the First in general, I feel the only time they ever managed to use it to good effect was when it took the form of Cassie to manipulate Willow in 'Conversations With Dead People' when it appeared as all the big bads in 'Lessons' and when it appeared to Spike as the sweeter softer Buffy in 'Selfless' instead of the real Buffy who wasn't impressed with him at that point. Other than that, it was a lameass villian that Buffy was completely right to mock in 'Chosen' ... the "taunter" be very afraid..

                            It could have also appeared as other characters, it could have appeared as Jesse to Xander, an idea they had and shouldn't have chucked away, as Angelus to Buffy, as Jenny to Giles which would have worked wonderfully to give us insight into why he feared Buffy letting Spike run loose with the trigger.. but it didn't.

                            Yes, they had a budget they had to keep in mind, but if you're going to have a big bad that's supposed to get into people's heads and can take the form of anyone who's died it only makes natural sense it'd take the form of those people, if you can't work that for whatever reason don't use the First as a big bad. It's that simple. It's like them having the Mayor with his whole plan to build up to the finale where he's supposed to take the form of a snake, only they couldn't afford it so he end up doesn't turning into anything, or having Angelus as a big bad, but DB can't make it for 'Becoming'..

                            But I agree with Enisy, it’s terribly disappointing when you discuss what they could have done with the First because it’s a terrible big bad in the end, I shall speak of it no more! “spit”
                            Last edited by vampmogs; 30-10-08, 12:37 PM.

                            ~ Banner by Nina ~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Amen Vampmogs! Couldnt of said it better myself! Seriously! That is exactly how i felt about the first, i dont hate season seven. It had some great aspects: Spuffy, Every potential getting to become a slayer, willow becoming whitehaired goddess willow , and Sunnydale becoming a big hole. I too felt that the first was a " lameass villian" and wasn't used like it should have been. And another thing, how come if the first was sooooo terrible it didnt stomp the scoobies, how come it waited for the scoobies to come to it???? Eh, i guess it is what it is.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think the first was handled fine. IT used buffy when it was the most effective. And used others when need be.

                                Had it appeared before the gang as buffy then that would just be a reminder that death does not stop buffy.
                                ===Quote of the day===
                                "To read makes our speaking English good"

                                Xander

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I just came up with another question and didnt see the use in starting a whole new thread seeing how it went along with this one so well. If the first blew up the watcher's council how come it couldnt of arranged buffy's house to have been blown up????(without using the obvious answer that the show wouldve ended shortly after.)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Theresa Marie86 View Post
                                    I just came up with another question and didnt see the use in starting a whole new thread seeing how it went along with this one so well. If the first blew up the watcher's council how come it couldnt of arranged buffy's house to have been blown up????(without using the obvious answer that the show wouldve ended shortly after.)
                                    Because Buffy was gathering the slayers. Had the first done that to soon it would have scattered the Potentials to the wind. And then made it's job much more hard. It never really saw Buffy as a threat, it was the first evil. Buffy was a thorn in it's side.

                                    It made a weak attempt to kill faith for the same reason. To help hasten her arrival to Sunnydale.

                                    Once together It was going to make one huge attack on them then on to the world.
                                    ===Quote of the day===
                                    "To read makes our speaking English good"

                                    Xander

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X