Connor? Who's Connor?

[Nina]

"Yes. Hi. You must be Angel's handsome, yet androgynous, son."

(OT; androgynous? it's not the word I would use to describe Connor or VK)

Well, Willow seemed not suprised at all when she met Connor. Nor did it look like she just heard of it ... so I would say that the scoobies were aware of Connor.

But it's not like there was any on screen contact between the teams between Connor's birth and Orpheus. So, did it happen off-screen or did it never happen and Willow found out about Connor when Fred called her.

[XavierZane]

Fred and Gunn probably called the Scoobs between Season 3 and Season 4, when they were looking for Angel and Cordy, and ended up explaining a few things.

[hawkedup]

Yeah. Androgynous? I think the writer's pulled one over there.

[carousel_girl8]

I would guess that Fred told her about it when she called to ask Willow to come to LA to try and re-ensoul Angel.

FRED
She has a fresh brain. I thought she might see some things
we missed.
WILLOW
Well, hearing the thoroughness of your research
methodology, I don’t think that’s possible.

It sounds like they were on the phone for a long time and so it is likely that it would have come up.

[Sosa lola]

Usually, Willow and Cordelia call each other, probably chatting about the going ons in Sunnydale and LA. Sweet how both girls who used to hate each other grew to be phone friends.

Cordelia was still Cordelia in S3, so it's probably her who told Willow that Angel had a son who disappeared and then appeared again as a teenager.

[Ameer]

This has always annoyed me so much. I always assumed that Fred told Willow about Connor before asking her to come to L.A. but surely the writers should have given us something a little more substantial? It seemed like such a slap in the face to loyal Bangel fans.

[Sosa lola]

This has always annoyed me so much. I always assumed that Fred told Willow about Connor before asking her to come to L.A. but surely the writers should have given us something a little more substantial? It seemed like such a slap in the face to loyal Bangel fans.

Like I said, Willow and Cordelia tend to call each other from time to time, exchanging info about what's going on with their lives. I'm sure Cordelia had called Willow to tell her about Angel having a son, and that his son became a teenager after months of being vanished.

[Ameer]

Like I said, Willow and Cordelia tend to call each other from time to time, exchanging info about what's going on with their lives. I'm sure Cordelia had called Willow to tell her about Angel having a son, and that his son became a teenager after months of being vanished.

Yeah, I know that we are supposed to assume something of the sort had happened. I also know that there was bad blood between the WB and UPN during Season Three of Angel and Season Six of BtVS, but crossovers were allowed later on. I just wish they had handled the situation somewhat differently and we could have seen something real instead of just being expected to assume that Cordelia or Fred had called to tell them about Connor.

[Illyrian]

But if everything had been explained fully, this thread wouldn't exist.

[hawkedup]

Well, they weren't very well going to talk about anything Angel related on Buffy. That would negate the whole redheaded step-child thing.

[Nina]

But one line on Ats would be enough, Cordelia, Wesley or Angel just needs to say that they did told the people in Sunnydale. Wesley could've called Giles to ask him if his books said anything more about a son of vampires. Cordelia could make a joke about Willows reaction when she told her about Connor ... anything.

[Sosa lola]

A line would have bee funny and a nice touch

Cordelia holding baby Connor: You wouldn't believe how Willow reacted on the phone. She went crazy on the babble. Makes you think how Buffy will react. *pointed stares at Angel*

Angel: Huh? Yeah. *distracting himself from the coversation by cooing to Connor."

[watcher1006]

Does this thread belong in the Buffy or the Angel section? Sort of both, I guess.

Willow did seem kind of secretive with Buffy in general about what she was doing when she got the call and was about to leave Sunnydale for L.A. I can imagine that Angel might not have wanted anyone but himself to break the news about Connor to Buffy and everyone who knew about Connor respected that. Faith could have also told Buffy about Connor when she came back to Sunnydale in "Dirty Girls" but she didn't.

I can imagine Willow would have worried about Buffy's reaction if she found out about Connor and the fact that Willow had withheld the information from her.

Of course by the time Angel finally saw Buffy in the last two episodes of the series the memory of him had been erased from everyone's mind - Willow's too I imagine. Isn't that right?

[Nina]

That's right, in 'Chosen' nobody knew who Connor was. But I would like to know if Angel just kept his mouth shut about his son for a year ... or that he told her. The first thing is a bit weird I think ... it's quite a big thing.

[hawkedup]

Don't forget the spell that made everyone forget Connor.

Also, didn't Joss say that in the original script Angel was going to tell Buffy about Cordy and Connor and stuff but then they remembered that Angel the Series was a redheaded step-child and shouldn't get more than a passing mention on Buffy?

[Nina]

Yeah, I did read that a well. But I'm not sure in which episode that was. I hope that this means that Angel did it anyway but off screen and that this doesn't mean that Angel kept it quiet.

[vampmogs]

Don't forget the spell that made everyone forget Connor.

Also, didn't Joss say that in the original script Angel was going to tell Buffy about Cordy and Connor and stuff but then they remembered that Angel the Series was a redheaded step-child and shouldn't get more than a passing mention on Buffy?

He said he didn't include it because there wasn't enough time for the final episode as it is, without bringing about all Ats related stuff on top of all the Btvs related stuff they had to cover. As much as I'd have liked to see it, I agree with him that it makes more sense to cover Btvs ground in the series finale over another show's mythology.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

"Yes. Hi. You must be Angel's handsome, yet androgynous, son."

(OT; androgynous? it's not the word I would use to describe Connor or VK)

Gosh, I would. Definitely has something androgynous about him in these pics:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Connor.gif

http://www.gazillionmovies.com/Actor/V/Vi/Pictures/vincent-kartheiser.jpg

But it's not like there was any on screen contact between the teams between Connor's birth and Orpheus. So, did it happen off-screen or did it never happen and Willow found out about Connor when Fred called her.

I'm totally confused about who among the Scoobies knows what re Connor. I think there was a comic at some point that had Angel telling Dawn about Connor, but that wasn't canon anyway so...who knows. I'm guessing there was some communication. But then, with the spell to take away the memories... was that reversed for everyone or just the people nearby when the spell happened? If Buffy knew before, would she know again later (ie in season 8)?

[watcher1006]

He said he didn't include it because there wasn't enough time for the final episode as it is, without bringing about all Ats related stuff on top of all the Btvs related stuff they had to cover. As much as I'd have liked to see it, I agree with him that it makes more sense to cover Btvs ground in the series finale over another show's mythology.

It's funny, but if Angel HAD told Buffy about Connor she would have been in the position of knowing about his son and holding his secret from everyone else in Team Angel and her own Scooby Gang (save for the comatose Cordelia). It would have been a total reversal of the earlier situation. It might have reflected on how much Buffy meant to him if he had shared his secret with her but given all the emotional complications and so on that it would have entailed maybe it was the prudent thing to leave that out of the ending of BtVS. The episodes "End Of Days" and "Chosen" were packed full of action as they were (and rather rushed in my opinion.)

[Nina]

Why did they wait until the last episode to tell Buffy about Connor? That's 1,5 season after he was born ... it would make much more sense if Angel told her a week after his birth. But they would probably want to do this face to face on screen I guess.

Gosh, I would. Definitely has something androgynous about him in these pics:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Connor.gif

http://www.gazillionmovies.com/Actor...kartheiser.jpg

I would use 'boyish', VK looks very young for his age ... but not androgynous.

Btw; The last picture isn't his best ...