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  • Jealousy Or.......

    ANGEL
    Is it Spike? You're not telling me something. And his scent, I remember it pretty well.

    BUFFY
    You vampires. Did anybody ever tell you the whole smelling people thing's a little gross?

    ANGEL
    Is he your boyfriend?

    BUFFY
    Is that your business?

    ANGEL
    You in love with him? OK, maybe I'm outta line, but this is kind of a curve ball for me. I mean, we are talking about Spike here.

    BUFFY
    It's different. He's different. He has a soul now.

    ANGEL
    Oh. Well.

    BUFFY
    What?

    ANGEL
    That's great. Everyone's got a soul now.

    BUFFY
    He'll make a difference.

    ANGEL
    You know, I started it. The whole having a soul. Before it was all the cool new thing.

    BUFFY
    Oh, my God. Are you 12?


    ANGEL
    I'm getting the brush off for Captain Peroxide. It doesn't necessarily bring out the champion in me.

    BUFFY
    You're not getting the brush off. Are you just gonna come here and go all Dawson on me every time I have a boyfriend?

    ANGEL
    Aha! Boyfriend!


    This conversation is from Chosen & i was wondering if he's already moved on with his life ,he have a son & "IN LOVE" with Cordy why the jealousy?

    She can date anyone she like's unless he still love her or that's what i believe,so what's everyone view about it?
    You Are The Only One
    Who Ever Touched My Heart
    It Will Always Be Yours.

    To The Icon Maker,Thanks

  • #2
    I think he is, in general, over Buffy. Kissing Buffy, getting jealous about Spike, talking cookie dough... it's all a form of nostalgia. When you catch up with the subject again in "The Girl in Question", it's much the same. He's just protective of the special bond they shared and, like any ex-boyfriend, doesn't approve of the alleged new boyfriend.
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    • #3
      That's all i dont know but it felt more to me that an ex doesnt approve of te new boyfriend,The why he reacted when he knew that she's someone else was more than i onced have you & i was the one & only boyfriend.

      But who know's maybe your right.
      You Are The Only One
      Who Ever Touched My Heart
      It Will Always Be Yours.

      To The Icon Maker,Thanks

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      • #4
        You know I love Angel and everything, but I think he was pretty out of line with this conversation. He had no right to question Buffy's choices when he himself had fallen for Cordelia (a thing I'm sure would've upset Buffy just as much as Angel finding out about Spike), but...

        I don't think he will ever get over Buffy. To him she was his saviour, his first real love in a very long life, and he would always be jealous of anyone she is with. In a way it's endearing that he still loved her enough to make sure she was happy. I don't think that Angel ever gave up the thought that maybe one day they would get back together - you know once he'd become human again and "could give her the life she deserved". It maybe a very slim hope but he held onto it tightly.

        The way I see it - if Angel and Cordelia had actually got together, and Buffy came calling, Angel would've left Cordy for Buffy. He would torture himself about it for sure, but he would go with his love first and foremost

        Buffy, however, wasn't as worldly wise as him when they were together, and it makes much more sense that she could have completely moved on, and did - to Riley and Spike, but there is nothing like your first love and they will always find a special place in your heart. I believe her cookie dough speech, was a gentle letting down for him - not dismissing him entirely, but basically saying "Get over me and move on, if it happens between us again then great, but until then find someone else"

        Angel was always a little petty, especially when it came to Spike, so although I don't think he should have reacted that way to Buffy and Spike being together, it was completely in character and predictable
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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
          I think he is, in general, over Buffy. Kissing Buffy, getting jealous about Spike, talking cookie dough... it's all a form of nostalgia. When you catch up with the subject again in "The Girl in Question", it's much the same. He's just protective of the special bond they shared and, like any ex-boyfriend, doesn't approve of the alleged new boyfriend.
          I couldn't really ever agree either of them were ever over eachother. The fact Angel asks if in the future they can be together in which Buffy replies some day and acknowledges she has indeed thought about it, makes me think they aren't over eachother. Why consider being together in the future and telling eachother that if they were over eachother- being over eachother would imply they no longer consider getting back together.

          I think they are just at the stage where they will always belong in some ways to eachother but are at the place where they can move on and be with other people.

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          • #6
            I think it was just last episode soppiness. They were keeping everybody happy by giving us both Spuffy and Bangel closure. We get the Bangel cookie-dough speech and the Spuffy burning up in flames moment. It's all very romantic and should make various shippers feel all squishy inside.

            That conversation is full of LOL though. I like Angel when he's being all jealous. He doesn't seem to be taking himself so seriously.
            "When people call people nerds, mostly what they are saying is, 'You like stuff', which is just not a good insult at all, like 'You are too enthusiastic about the miracle of human consciousness'."
            -John Green

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Rosamunde View Post
              I think it was just last episode soppiness. They were keeping everybody happy by giving us both Spuffy and Bangel closure. We get the Bangel cookie-dough speech and the Spuffy burning up in flames moment. It's all very romantic and should make various shippers feel all squishy inside.
              While I could have done without the smoochies (just too cruel to Spike), I found the conversation pretty spot on. There will always be feelings-love doesn't just vanish. And I can see how the Spike thing would come as a shock for Angel, especially as he seems to have been kept in the dark about a lot of stuff. Also I do think that Angel was really in love with Cordy at this point and that he kind of just fell back into his old role when he saw her.

              So I was good with the Bangel closure. I'm not so sure I felt Spuffy closure, more like Spuffy rip off. Finally, they get there-with the trust and respect and loveiness and then it gets ripped away. Nice Joss, really nice.


              Originally posted by Rosamunde View Post
              That conversation is full of LOL though. I like Angel when he's being all jealous. He doesn't seem to be taking himself so seriously.
              Joss loves petty Angel too!
              "All I ask is that... that you try to see me."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten View Post
                While I could have done without the smoochies (just too cruel to Spike), I found the conversation pretty spot on. There will always be feelings-love doesn't just vanish. And I can see how the Spike thing would come as a shock for Angel, especially as he seems to have been kept in the dark about a lot of stuff. Also I do think that Angel was really in love with Cordy at this point and that he kind of just fell back into his old role when he saw her.
                I think this conversation was very in character for the Angel of BtVS. It seemed to work with his previous appearances on the series and fitted with the kind of character they painted him.

                I don't think it works so well with the Angel that was currently on AtS. He was the guy who said "Buffy can look after herself" and didn't seem too worried about what was going on in Sunnydale. I see that other Angel as a guy who has made a life entirely separate from Buffy and his feelings for her and who really cares about Cordelia.

                I didn't think this conversation sounded unlikely, in fact it's good writing and both the characters sound like themselves. I'm just not sure it fits with Angel's development.

                So I was good with the Bangel closure. I'm not so sure I felt Spuffy closure, more like Spuffy rip off. Finally, they get there-with the trust and respect and loveiness and then it gets ripped away. Nice Joss, really nice.
                I thought it worked. It was a very touching scene, and I can't imagine Buffy admitting her love for him to herself without there being some kind of tragedy like this.
                "When people call people nerds, mostly what they are saying is, 'You like stuff', which is just not a good insult at all, like 'You are too enthusiastic about the miracle of human consciousness'."
                -John Green

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rosamunde View Post
                  I think this conversation was very in character for the Angel of BtVS. It seemed to work with his previous appearances on the series and fitted with the kind of character they painted him.

                  I don't think it works so well with the Angel that was currently on AtS. He was the guy who said "Buffy can look after herself" and didn't seem too worried about what was going on in Sunnydale. I see that other Angel as a guy who has made a life entirely separate from Buffy and his feelings for her and who really cares about Cordelia.

                  I didn't think this conversation sounded unlikely, in fact it's good writing and both the characters sound like themselves. I'm just not sure it fits with Angel's development.
                  But maybe it's a bit like when adults go home for the holidays and find themselves arguing with siblings and their parents as though they have not matured since high school. Maybe being around Buffy just brings out that other Angel. Much like being around Spike brings out petty doof-ball Angel. (That I sort of love.)
                  "All I ask is that... that you try to see me."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten View Post
                    But maybe it's a bit like when adults go home for the holidays and find themselves arguing with siblings and their parents as though they have not matured since high school. Maybe being around Buffy just brings out that other Angel. Much like being around Spike brings out petty doof-ball Angel. (That I sort of love.)

                    Hahaha fair enough. I'm just imagining Buffy and Angel squabbling like kids now. As I said before, I love how jealousy brings out the worst in Angel and he knows it I think it's kind of fitting that Buffy and Angel make each other regress because it shows how much they've developed and grown since their relationship.
                    "When people call people nerds, mostly what they are saying is, 'You like stuff', which is just not a good insult at all, like 'You are too enthusiastic about the miracle of human consciousness'."
                    -John Green

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                      You know I love Angel and everything, but I think he was pretty out of line with this conversation. He had no right to question Buffy's choices when he himself had fallen for Cordelia (a thing I'm sure would've upset Buffy just as much as Angel finding out about Spike), but...
                      True, in fact it's a very similar situation, b/c in both cases Angel and Buffy had fallen for the former rival/enemy of the other who had changed, unbenownst to the other. Spike to Angel is the equivalent of Cordy to Buffy. I really do wish we could have seen Buffy's reaction to Angel loving Cordy, lol (given how petty and immature Angel was acting, I totally could have seen him bringing it up in retaliation), though I understand that they couldn't have done so in Chosen for the sake for BTVS fans who hadn't seen ATS.

                      Originally posted by ciderdrinker View Post
                      I don't think he will ever get over Buffy...The way I see it - if Angel and Cordelia had actually got together, and Buffy came calling, Angel would've left Cordy for Buffy. He would torture himself about it for sure, but he would go with his love first and foremost

                      Angel was always a little petty, especially when it came to Spike, so although I don't think he should have reacted that way to Buffy and Spike being together, it was completely in character and predictable
                      I disagree--I think Angel would have felt a little guilty or uncomfortable at having to turn down Buffy, but I have no doubt that he would have stood by his relationship with Cordy and stayed with her--all the evidence of the last two seasons would indicate that, as well as his statements in YW such as that he thinks about what could have been between him and Cordy if they had had the chance to be together "all the time," and that he is "lost without [her]." He tells Cordy in explanation for taking the job at WH, "He was going to kill you. And himself," which also shows what a priority Cordy was to him, and states in late season 4 in Inside Out, "She's still the woman I--" (with love obviously being the word he mean to say at the end). I think from all this it's clear that "his love" right now in that sense is Cordy, "first and foremost." Yes, he will never forget his relationship with Buffy, and Buffy will always hold a special place in his heart--she was his first love, after all, and did play a major role in his life. But they've been apart for 4 years, both have completely separate lives now, they've MOVED ON--especially Angel. It is possible for people to move on, and still care for their first love.

                      As for his scene in Chosen, it is definitely OOC even for BTVS--I mean, I hadn't seen any of Angel when I saw Chosen, and I remember thinking that he was acting rather strange and OOC compared to how he was before--unusually jaunty and light-hearted, smiling and joking--I was like, "who is this new Angel?!" Then I saw the beginning of ATS, and began to understand. Then I saw season 4, season of suffering and misery, and became confused again. Angel is definitely petty, I think the season 3 epp "Couplet" speaks for itself, lol--and he can act pretty immature at times, ESPECIALLY around Spike--I mean, look at them go at it in season 5! I think the fact that it was SPIKE of all people set him off especially, more so than someone he didn't know (just as I'm sure Buffy would have a much stronger reaction to the news of his love for Cordy, given their history, rather than if she had heard he was dating Kate Lockley or whatever), he has always had tensions with Spike, and so it's not surprising for him to have this reaction to the news of Buffy having a relationship with him. I think KoC is right in saying it's more of a nostalgia kind of thing--I'm sure Xander would have been angry to learn that Cordy was in love with his old nemesis Angel, even as much as he loved Anya!

                      But anyway, while the pettiness was pretty in-character, the rest of his appearance was not, in the context of both what had happened in season 4:yeah, his son was safe now, but he had lost him, and Cordy, and was now running for an evil law firm, with questions about whether killing Jasmine was the right thing in the back of his mind, and tons of horrific memories sitll fresh--I hardly think he'd be smiling and joking after that, or asking Buffy for promises. As someone else said, that was probably more of a bone thrown to shippers, trying to have a little of Bangel and Spuffy in the finale to please both sects. And IMO he acted more immature than loving--I don't think it's an indication of a lot of a continuing deep love for Buffy, or of never having gotten over her.

                      And lol, Salvation, it's stated pretty clearly in canon by his own admission and dreams and fantasies that he was in love with Cordy--you don't have to put it in caps and quotes like that!
                      Promise that you'll return to me.

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                      • #12
                        I agree that it is possible to still have feelings for first loves (really any good love relationship) but to also be able to move on to other relationships. I think Angel was displaying some protective "first BF" feelings at that point (the kiss may have been overdoing it a bit... ) and also may have been a little jealous.

                        Some of it I see as good old fashion rivalry between the two vamps. They have a LOT of history together - I'm sure Angel did have a hard time seeing Spike with Buffy. But competition seems to always be at the center of Spike and Angel's relationship.

                        I think there was a lot of "pandering" to both Ships in the final episode (lets not close ALL the doors... There's spin-offs and movies, and COMICS LOL!!) we had Spike moving to Angel and there could have been other opportunities.
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                        • #13
                          I have little doubt that Xander would ultimately have held Angel responsible for what happened to Cordy, since she was part of his group.

                          I thought there was WAY too much 'shipping in "Chosen". I don't think they did nearly enough to make it about the core Scoobies.
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                          • #14
                            Though it is gonna sound a little corny, i think some where angel will allways love buffy. Im not taking cordy out. but i think if he had to choose between Buffy to Cordy, he will choose buffy.

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                            • #15
                              Even thow he did have a son and was in love with Cordy, I really think and know he was totally jealous. You could tell when Buffy compared him to Spike he got all on the defence and he was mad he had a soul. He also asked about her realationship with Spike and he is a jealous guy for Buffy. Come on they were in love and they would die for each other, so I would kind of be on the jealousy side with Angel. I think Buffy can be jealous too. So thats my opinion.
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                              • #16
                                He was Jealous no one can deny it,maybe he did moved on but he sill think deep down someday they will reunite once again.He told her that's he's not geeting any older which means he still love her & see their future together.
                                You Are The Only One
                                Who Ever Touched My Heart
                                It Will Always Be Yours.

                                To The Icon Maker,Thanks

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Salvation View Post
                                  He was Jealous no one can deny it,maybe he did moved on but he sill think deep down someday they will reunite once again.He told her that's he's not geeting any older which means he still love her & see their future together.
                                  Or that he's not getting any older! But again, just because he was a bit jealous--especially when it's SPIKE they were talking about--his old rival, as Poet mentoned as well--doesn't mean he "still think deep down someday they will reunite once again"--he could have just still had protective feelings about her, and he had his whole age-old rivalry with Spike.

                                  I mean seriously Dark Ages, of COURSE he's going to get all defensive if Buffy compares him to Spike, given their long history of antagonism towards one another--it's like if Xander had compared Anya to Willow to her face, or to Cordy--I'm sure Willow would get pissed off and defensive as well, even though she had lost all sexual interest in Xander and was currently in "girlstown"! I don't see how that reaction about Spike and being compared with Spike shows any indication of lingering deep romantic feelings for Buffy...

                                  And KoC, it's not just that Cordy was in Angel's group--she became a half demon in the first place, setting her on the road to her terrible fate, for Angel's sake--so there's an even more direct reason for Xander to have blamed Angel for her fate--assuming he even ever found out! :confused2: I always wish we could see if the Scoobies knew what happened to her or not, or what their reactions would ahve been, especially Buffy and Xander's....I mean, I guess WIllow knew something, but...I don't know, it doesn't seem like it!
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                                  • #18
                                    Definitely would make sense playing into the whole "Scoobies don't trust Angel anymore " development. Especially if they found out about Cordy dying. Really, though, who works directly for Angel that *doesn't* get killed during that series?
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                                    • #19
                                      If DB weren't averse to playing the homoerotic undertones, he could've had a hint of jealousy or possessiveness towards Spike before correcting it, and that would give Buffy's line about oiling up the two of them & leaving them in a locked room a better payoff.

                                      Evidently, trauma obliterates the chemical 'time stamp' in memory, so that traumatic memories are always the most easily awakened; there would always be a sense between Buffy and Angel of an unpayable debt that pledges of someday/perhaps soothe somewhat. Their greatest common ground is an inclination to self-punishment & over-obligation, and they could afflict each other penitentially with the recriminations & impossibilities that would abundantly sprout should they ever attempt cohabitation . . .
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                                      • #20
                                        I love jealous Angel, always hilarious. It was the same as in Couplet in Ats being all jealous over Groo and Cordy. "Does he look taller than last time" Such a humorous character at times.

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