Their Darkest Hours, Part I

[kassyopeia]

Much of the discussion on this board is about the mistakes the various characters make. I guess that's natural, talking about the things they do right isn't all that interesting in the end. Depending on their own priorities, some people see mistakes where other people don't, and see things as very bad that others see only as mildly objectionable. So, I thought it might be interesting to collect what everyone sees as the one worst mistake, gravest error in judgement, least excusable decision etc. that each of the protagonists has made during the course of the series.

This would be my list, subject to later change in case people mention things that I've plain forgotten about:

• Buffy
  Her unwillingness to consider killing Dawn in "The Gift". The only time she utterly refuses to face up to reality when everything is at stake.
• Giles
  "Helpless". Violation and utter breach of trust with no better excuse than "I was just following order". I see him as vary far from redeemed by the end of the episode.
• Willow
  The way she treats Buffy in "Dead Man's Party". At no other point is Willow as wrapped up in herself and as uncaring, at a time in which her best friend is in so obvious and desperate need of understanding and support, as here.
• Xander
  His unreflected hatred towards Angel in "Revelations".

Note that I'm ignoring season 8, because I think we don't have enough background yet to fully evaluate many of the characters' actions. I'm obviously also ignoring Dark Willow, both because otherwise there wouldn't be much of a discussion and because it's unclear in how far "Red Willow" was in control. In general, we should only consider instances in which characters are acting of their own volition.

Feel free to add as many of the extended Scoobies as you like.

[Pandora's_Box]

Good idea kassyopeia!

Buffy: Not being prepared to sacrifice Dawn for the all world, I agree. I was glad to see she reconsidered it in "LMPTM".
Willow: The magic abuse, obviously.
Xander: Leaving Anya at the altar just because he was scared.
Giles: Trying to kill Spike behind Buffy's back.
Dawn: Using magics to bring her mom back.
Anya: euh...how about becoming a vengeance demon and slaughtering thousand of men during 10 centuries...No, I know! The bridesmaid dress choice, it's worse.
Spike: The AR, obviously.
Angel: Coming back on Season 3
Tara: Dying
Joyce: Kickin' her daughter out in Becoming Part 2.
Cordelia: Blaming Buffy for what happened with Xander.
Riley: Letting whores suck his blood.
Jonathan: Trying to kill himself just because he's lonely.
Andrew: Killing his only friend.
Warren: Letting himself becoming a woman hater.
Faith: Rejecting Buffy's help out of pride.

[icecreamkiller]

Buffy: Constantly abusing Spike physically and emotionally in seasons 5 and 6. He was in love with her and very willing to help her in any way she desired, but she refused to treat him as anything other than dirt. I'm in no way saying that she should have pretended to love him or anything of the sort - or even like him - but she could at the very least have held back on the physical beatings, especially when in season 5 when he had no way to retaliate (and even in season 6 - the times they fought, she was always the one who attacked him first). Not being willing to sacrifice Dawn may have been a mistake, but one I actually find easier to understand and forgive, especially considering Buffy came through in the end. It can't be easy to be forced to sacrifice someone you love so much.
Willow: The magic abuse, I agree, and the utter selfishness that came with it. In truth, Willow has always been a pretty selfish character, but the addiction to magic fueled that even further, for obvious reasons.
Xander: Proposing to Anya and leading her on right up to their wedding day and then running away. Doubts are completely understandable, but if they were so serious I find it difficult to forgive him for going several months without discussing them with her and just letting the bomb go off in what she expected would be her happiest moment as a human.
Giles: Distancing himself forcibly from Buffy in season 8. While I agree that he's capable of making decisions that she's not (ie killing Spike in season 7, which I actually find entirely understandable given the fact that Spike was chipless and, until the fight with Wood, vulnerable to being turned into a killing machine by the First), we haven't yet seen any reason for him to simply cut her off completely instead of trying to work things out.

This is all I got for now, but I might think of others some other time.

[kassyopeia]

Spike: The AR, obviously.

Seriously? Do you mean that's the worst thing he's ever done, or done during the timeframe of the series, or since he was chipped, or since he fell in love with Buffy?

[dinamo]

For Buffy I'd agree with the posters so far that it was in The Gift not sacrificing Dawn, she'll live to regret it if the Key issue isn't resolved like everyone seems to think it possibly is. I also really dislike her attitude to Faith culminating in an almost murder mainly for her boyfriends needs. For Xander I agree again about the Anya stuff he lead her on for far too long for it to be excused. For Giles I'm not actually totally sure, but U suppose perhaps it would be conspiring with Wood to kill Spike. I don't actually have a problem with the Spike killing part, its who he chose to do it with. I always thought in some ways he used someone else to solve a problem, used Woods desire for vengence. I'm also not sure about why he's distancing himself from Buffy in Season 8. When it comes to Willow again I'm not sure. I don't really like to say the magic because I hated the magic addiction thing. For me it wasn't about magic, it was a lust for power, magic was just the choice way to get that power for this particular person. I think for me her darkest hour is yet to come with Season 8 particularly when it involved nakedness and snake people.

[Pandora's_Box]

Seriously? Do you mean that's the worst thing he's ever done, or done during the timeframe of the series, or since he was chipped, or since he fell in love with Buffy?

Not the worst thing, the biggest mistake, he almost lost her for good and had to get himself a soul!
For Angel and Spike I'm not counting their unsouled times because they had no free will (well, according to the show).

[kassyopeia]

For Angel and Spike I'm not counting their unsouled times

I don't get it. The AR was during his unsouled time, as you just pointed out. *confused*

[Pandora's_Box]

I don't get it. The AR was during his unsouled time, as you just pointed out. *confused*

I know, it's me, I just don't consider Spike as unsouled after "Out Of My Mind" because he's feeling remorse, pain, sorrow, love, compassion...The writers never explained how could that be since he had no soul...

[kassyopeia]

I know, it's me, I just don't consider Spike as unsouled after "Out Of My Mind"

Makes perfect sense. I just wanted you to clarify.

[?DarkWillow?]

Buffy- Not being able to sacrifice Dawn in "The Gift". I think that really shows how she's not always able to face up to what she has to do.

Willow- Her magic addiction/abuse. I really miss the old Willow of season 1-(half of)5. In s6-7, we are dealing with a very corrupted Willow, much different than the cute, bubbly one we knew in earlier seasons.

Xander- Proposing to poor Anya, leading her on to believe that everything was going to go perfectly, and then dumping her at the altar. I think that may be one of Xander's worst moments ever. Also, I really hate when he tries to team up with Faith to kill Angel in "Revelations" just because he doesn't like him.

Giles- Obviously, his role in "Helpless" when he completely mis-treated Buffy and, as Buffy put it, 'poisoned' her.

[Tom]

Buffy - Not being able to sacrafise Dawn in "The Gift".

Willow - Taking Dawn to Wreck.

Xander - Leaving Anya at the Alter.

Giles - Injecting the muscle relaxant in to Buffy.

[blue_peroxide]

Interesting that so many people think not being able to sacrifice Dawn is Buffy's "darkest hour". I find it very very human that she couldn't sacrifice her own sister. It's easy for us to think that sacrificing Dawn for the sake of the world would be "the right" thing to do (because, you know, she's the key anyway and pretty annoying too) but for Buffy she's her sister. (Actually I don't really get what they mean with "Ah, yes, but things are different, aren't they? After what you've been through, faced with the same choice now, you'd let her die." - "If I had to...to save the world. Yes." What exactly has changed now?)
Anyhow Buffy's darkest hour for me was definitely her awful, inhuman if you will, abusing of Spike during S6. Spike doesn't get credit for anything good he does, but does get mistreated and humiliated a lot. He's in love with Buffy, would do anything for her (and her loved ones) - and Buffy with all her self-loathing (and the whole inferiority/superiority thing added on top of that) is punishing Spike for his love with terrifying continuance. This was dark indeed I should say.

[kassyopeia]

Interesting that so many people think not being able to sacrifice Dawn is Buffy's "darkest hour".

For me, at least, it's because she's being entirely selfish. As Giles puts it to her,

"every living creature in this and every other dimension imaginable will suffer unbearable torment and Death. Including Dawn"

So this isn't wanting to protect Dawn at any cost, which I would find completely understandable and forgivable, it's about refusing to think about killing her.

What exactly has changed now?

On a very superficial level, Buffy now knows, beyond any doubt, that there is a heavenly afterlife. Surely that makes a difference in the way one thinks about sacrificing loved ones.
But that may not be what they are referring to, here. It may be about Buffy's perceived growth as a leader, being able to detach herself more from her emotions and "look at the big picture", since that's one of the main themes of that season.

[Weredog]

Buffy: Using Spike for her own personal satisfaction. Behind her friends' backs too.
Xander: Leaving Anya at the altar... and yet still wants to date her.
Willow: Killing Warren. Revenge is a dish best served cold, but that was just goddamn frozen dinner.
Giles: Leaving Buffy days after she revealed to everyone that she came from heaven. I understand that he felt he had to let her stand on her own feet, but you don't do that when someone's hit rock bottom. (Pun intended?)
Angel: Allowing himself to have a relationship with Buffy. He should've known there was no way it would go well.
Cordelia: Breaking up with Xander on Valentine's Day.
Oz: Sleeping with Veruca, foolishly believing it was the only way to keep her from hunting.
Spike: His attempt to rape Buffy.
Riley: Turning to vampire whores because of his childish need for Buffy's attention.
Dawn: Raising her mom from the dead.
Anya: Returning to the vengeance fold after all that she had learned in season 4, 5, and 6.
Tara: Casting a spell on her friends to render them unable to see demons.
Joyce: Listening to Ted, ignoring Buffy.
Jenny: Not admit to anyone that she was sent to watch after Angel.
Jonathan: Casting a spell on Sunnydale to worship him.
Warren: Not turning himself in for Katrina's murder. And his attempted assassination on Buffy, of course.
Andrew: Killing Jonathan.
Amy: Imbuing Willow with magic in "Doublemeat Palace"
Faith: Must I say? Killing Finch.

[kassyopeia]

Joyce: Listening to Ted, ignoring Buffy.

Not sure that one counts, he was feeding her drugs to make her compliant.

Faith: Must I say? Killing Finch.

But ... she didn't mean to. Isn't pretty much everything she does afterwards worse?

What occurred to me only recently is that some part of the blame for Faith's turning evil after this actually rests with Giles and/or Faith's original watcher. It's quite obvious that neither Buffy nor Faith were prepared for the accident - Faith seems to honestly believe that she might have to go to jail because of it, Buffy is surprised when Giles tells her that "this is not the first time something like this has happened." How can they send a Slayer into battle without preparing them for this sort of thing?
It doesn't excuse the way Faith dealt (or or refused to deal) with it, but preparing her would probably have avoided the whole spiral it kicked off.

[BlasterBoy]

Buffy: Let's see: her immediate decision to jump back into the vineyard in "Empty Places", plus her bitchiness in "Get It Done". I wanted to kill her!
Willow: I'd have to say the Tara thing, when she did the spell in "All The Way"! Horrible
Xander: All his Angel attitude s3+, and Anya being left at the alter
Giles: Trying to kill Spike behind Buffy's back, I agree, but also "Helpless" and leaving. I blame Season 6 on Giles. He was the parent. When the parent leaves, the kids go wild.
Dawn: "get out, get out, GET OUT!" Need I say more?
Anya: yeah, becoming a vengeance demon again, and/or leaving during "Graduation Day Part I". I loved her in "End of Days" about her not leaving
Spike: SO much. Let's see: summoning the Judge, kidnapping Xander/Willow, chaining Buffy up in his crypt, the attempted rape, and of course, everything he said/did in "Lies My Parents Told Me". All completely horrible. Am I supposed to be sympathetic to him? BAH!
Angel: Uh.....sleeping with Buffy when he knew the consequences.
Tara: Did Tara ever do anything wrong? No. So....no.
Joyce: Kickin' her daughter out in Becoming Part 2 is another thing I agree with. "Dead Man's Party" was pretty bad for her, too.
Cordelia: Tormenting Willow That made me sad!
Riley: Let's see: his complete craziness in "Goodbye Iowa".
Jonathan: Johnathan is a good guy. I'd say getting caught with the wrong crowd (Warren and Andrew)/trusting them.
Andrew: KILLING JOHNATHAN!
Warren: He had a lot of dark moments, but most of all in "Dead Things", when he made the girl his slave and then killed her.
Faith: Shooting Angel, probably, but threatening Willow was terrifying, too.

[kassyopeia]

Angel: Uh.....sleeping with Buffy when he knew the consequences.

Are you implying he knew he would lose his soul in "Surprise"? What gives you that impression? Even the episode title suggests otherwise...

Riley: Let's see: his complete craziness in "Goodbye Iowa".

Again, drugs were involved, or rather lack of drugs, so not sure that one counts.

[BlasterBoy]

Are you implying he knew he would lose his soul in "Surprise"? What gives you that impression? Even the episode title suggests otherwise...

Again, drugs were involved, or rather lack of drugs, so not sure that one counts.

Didn't Whistler tell him? Or am I just losing my mind? :lol

Yes, drugs were involved, but I don't see any completely crazy Riley stuff going on, minus "Into The Woods". Unlike most, however, I'm not going, "OMG Riley's HORRIBLE for that!"

[kassyopeia]

Didn't Whistler tell him? Or am I just losing my mind? :lol

Not as far as we know. But the only contact between the two we're shown is that flashback in "Becoming", which isn't very comprehensive.

I'm very certain that he didn't know, both because he seems to have no clue what's happening while he's turning, and because if he did know it would be so wrong as to be out of character.

[RuFio]

buffys darkest hour was when she beat down & screwed spike.
willows darkest hour was when she flayed Warren.
xanders darkest moment was when he left anya at the altar.
giles darkest moment was either when he betrayed buffy with robin to kill spike, when he took away her powers to test her on her 18th birthday or when he killed Ben.