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Why did Kendra die the way she did?

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  • Why did Kendra die the way she did?

    I am now in the middle of re watching Buffy Season 2 and as always with a re watch I find myself with new topics that I want to discuss. At present I have just finished Innocence and plan to watch Phases later on tonight. But a topic I have been considering since what's My Line Part's 1 and 2 is Kendra and her upcoming death in Becoming Part 1.

    Why exactly did Kendra die the way she did? I of course know the principle of it. Drusilla hypnotised her forcing her to stand still while Drusilla slit her throat, but why exactly did this hypnosis work on Kendra the way it did? I mean from what we have seen of the other slayers on the show Buffy and Faith canon has given evidence to a certain extent that neither of them would have been affected by it particularly Buffy.

    Firstly we have seen Buffy encounter a similar form of hypnosis with The Master. While at first she appeared to be unable to conquer it we eventually saw her overcome it after her drowning and resuscitation from Xander. However I think it would be fair to say that the reason that Buffy fell for the Masters hypnosis in the first place was that she was emotionally weakened. She felt fear towards him knowing that she was destined to die at his hands, however as soon as she has gotten past this she can fight him effortlessly. The same excuse can not be applied to Kendra who would have just seen Drusilla as any other vampire.

    Then we have Buffy's encounters with Drusilla herself. Several times throughout the show Buffy and Drusilla have encountered one another with a fight only occurring between the two from what I remember in Crush, and even then it is likely that Drusilla only took part in this because she found Buffy in a rather weakened position i.e. chained up to a wall by Spike. Otherwise from every encounter we have seen Drusilla has usually fled or stayed on the sideline leaving either Angelus or Spike to deal with Buffy.

    From this I think it is quite easy to see that Drusilla herself knew that Buffy wouldn't have been beaten in such a way. Whether it's because of a difference between the two that was obvious to her seeing as she would likely know the limitations of her own gifts, or simply something she saw in a vision she never dared try such a thing with Buffy even when she was sitting right in front of her unable to move.

    However while I have shown the evidence that suggests her immunity to Drusilla, We have however seen Buffy be hypnotised by a vampire as well in Buffy VS Dracula. Though I would simply fanwank this that while Drusilla abilities came to her as an additional vampire gift as a result of her already physics abilities as a human. Dracula's don't come from his own natural abilities, but rather old gypsy magic. Magic being something we have seen numerous times on the show being something that Buffy or any other Slayer certainly isn't immune to.

    So I have now shown the reasons why I think Buffy was immune to Drusilla and her powers. Now what I hope for my fellow posters to do in this topic is think of reasons as to why exactly Kendra was able to die the way she did. Happy Posting
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  • #2
    I think the reason Kendra couldn't resist Drusilla's hypnosis is because she never really had to develop a true... backbone, if you will. Based on What's My Line, where we see her be completely obedient, shy and and complacent around authority figures (or even people who aren't authority figures, but with whom she isn't accustomed to - ie Xander), she never built any sort of psychological resistance to any sort of power. She simply takes things as they are and follows her orders without ever asking why or proposing a different approach. Buffy of course is the opposite of that, always defiant, always questioning, always headstrong. Her resistance to authority and orders gives her a strong critical sense that allows her to resist even Dracula - this same critical sense is not at all present in Kendra, which is why she was easy prey for Dru.

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    • #3
      Kendra was a brave kid, but she had not had the time and opportunity to develop the mental and emotional toughness that a slayer needs, if she is to survive more than the first few fights.

      In an early encounter Buffy goaded Kendra to show her that anger was a valuable source of strength, and just as important as the technique in which Buffy acknowledged that Kendra was proficient. Yet Kendra, to judge from her talk and body language, remained cut off from her emotions.

      Kendra had not been properly trained, and was sent out into the world to be a victim.

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      • #4
        We should distinguish our terms here, as well. Neither Buffy, nor Faith, nor any other Slayer was brought under Drusilla's power. Drusilla's power ≠ The Master's power ≠ Dracula's power. They aren't doing the same thing. The Master, if anything, was simply forcibly overcoming free will; it was almost telekinetic, she couldn't *move* or act against him. And eventually was able counter that with the application of will. Dracula's thrall is essentially a power of suggestion, of emotional manipulation, which, again, willpower can overcome. Drusilla is a hypnotist, and a powerful one. There's no willpower there to be exerted once she's taken hold.

        So while, yes, Kendra didn't have the mental training or experience to be prepared for her, there's no reason to assume Buffy or Faith would have faired better. In "Crush", for instance, I assume Dru just didn't think she had the luxury of softening up Buffy with hypnosis when she attacked her, because she understood at that point that Spike would probably interfere. And aside from all of that... Drusilla is just one of the nasty things in the dark that all the Council's handbooks and training may simply have had no hope of preparing anyone. Perhaps we should think that Buffy's fortunate that she had a chance to learn of Drusilla and be briefed about her before she was fully restored?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          Kendra was a brave kid, but she had not had the time and opportunity to develop the mental and emotional toughness that a slayer needs, if she is to survive more than the first few fights.
          Actually, her parents sent her to her Watcher at the age of five. That's a whole load more time than Buffy ever had to prepare. Maybe it was an error on the part of her Watcher when he made her so submissive, but we have no way of knowing for sure whether that was really his fault. It may very well been Kendra's.

          Kendra had not been properly trained, and was sent out into the world to be a victim.
          She was "sent out into the world to be a victim"? Err... she was properly trained. She held her own against pretty much everyone we saw her go up against - Buffy included. But that doesn't mean that she was invincible. Buffy died when she fought the Master, but she was able to come back because she had someone there to help her. There was nothing anyone could have done at the time to prevent Drusilla going after Kendra, since they were all busy fighting for their own lives, and it's not like CPR is going to do much against a slashed throat. Everyone has their weaknesses, Kendra's was her lack of willpower. Could that have been an issue with her training? Maybe. But Buffy and all the other Slayers had their own weaknesses too, and that doesn't mean they were sent out into the world to get killed. Training is, of course, a crucial aspect in the development of a warrior, but there needs to be a fair amount of personal input from the warrior themselves (just look at Buffy, Faith and Spike and their fairly improvisational and adaptive fighting techniques), which is what was missing in Kendra. Like I said above, we can't be sure that her downfall was the result of faulty training on the part of her Watcher and not faulty preparation on her own part.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by icecreamkiller View Post
            I think the reason Kendra couldn't resist Drusilla's hypnosis is because she never really had to develop a true... backbone, if you will. Based on What's My Line, where we see her be completely obedient, shy and and complacent around authority figures (or even people who aren't authority figures, but with whom she isn't accustomed to - ie Xander), she never built any sort of psychological resistance to any sort of power. She simply takes things as they are and follows her orders without ever asking why or proposing a different approach. Buffy of course is the opposite of that, always defiant, always questioning, always headstrong. Her resistance to authority and orders gives her a strong critical sense that allows her to resist even Dracula - this same critical sense is not at all present in Kendra, which is why she was easy prey for Dru.
            Hi Ice Cream Killer and welcome to the discussion! I actually like what you're saying that it's a matter of the sheer will and mind of the person in question that allows them to be easily influenced or not. Actually I think what your saying makes a lot of sense sure I know of people who say that in real life some people with particularly strong will power will be able to resist the control of a hypnotist. I also certainly agree that to Kendra taking an order even one from an enemy would come to her as second nature. Hell if you think about it in terms could you really see Buffy just standing there doing nothing for anybody in such a situation?

            Originally posted by Michael View Post
            Kendra was a brave kid, but she had not had the time and opportunity to develop the mental and emotional toughness that a slayer needs, if she is to survive more than the first few fights.
            I agree with you. Kendra despite being trained under the council the longest seeing as she was taken from her family at the age of 5 was the least emotionally capable of the slayers that we encountered. I think Buffy perfectly described it to Kendra in what's My Line Part 2 when they were discussing the different techniques that they use in battle. Kendra holds her emotions back, she has nothing to fight for and she is so rigid when it comes to sticking to the rules only knows the forms taught by her watcher, but doesn't have the needed ability to adapt that both Buffy and Faith have.

            Originally posted by Michael View Post
            Kendra had not been properly trained, and was sent out into the world to be a victim.
            Actually I'd have to disagree. Kendra was sent out into the world by the Watchers council to be a slayer. In the eyes of the council Kendra was the perfect slayer one a slayer such as Buffy should have aspired to be. She was respectful, quiet and got the job done. She had no time for friends or family in other words thing which they would have seen as getting in the way of their duties. So no Kendra was not sent into the world to be a victim.

            Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
            We should distinguish our terms here, as well. Neither Buffy, nor Faith, nor any other Slayer was brought under Drusilla's power. Drusilla's power ≠ The Master's power ≠ Dracula's power. They aren't doing the same thing. The Master, if anything, was simply forcibly overcoming free will; it was almost telekinetic, she couldn't *move* or act against him. And eventually was able counter that with the application of will. Dracula's thrall is essentially a power of suggestion, of emotional manipulation, which, again, willpower can overcome. Drusilla is a hypnotist, and a powerful one. There's no willpower there to be exerted once she's taken hold.

            So while, yes, Kendra didn't have the mental training or experience to be prepared for her, there's no reason to assume Buffy or Faith would have faired better. In "Crush", for instance, I assume Dru just didn't think she had the luxury of softening up Buffy with hypnosis when she attacked her, because she understood at that point that Spike would probably interfere. And aside from all of that... Drusilla is just one of the nasty things in the dark that all the Council's handbooks and training may simply have had no hope of preparing anyone. Perhaps we should think that Buffy's fortunate that she had a chance to learn of Drusilla and be briefed about her before she was fully restored?
            Honestly while I can see where your arguments are coming from. I honestly don't understand how they make any sense. If Drusilla all along could kill Buffy effortlessly with her hypnotic powers as you are suggesting then why didn't she? I could honestly believe the argument that she didn't at first because a) She was too weak from the attack on her at Prague and b) She wanted to give Spike the thrill of killing the Slayer seeing as he of course enjoyed it much more than she did. But, what about later in the season? When it was clear that Spike was getting sick of battling her and even knew himself that Buffy was a foe that he just couldn't win against.

            Then we also have Spike proposing to Drusilla numerous times that they leave town that she was bad luck. If Drusilla could truly kill Buffy then why would Spike have suggested such a thing? I mean the two had been together for over a 100 years he better than anyone would know exactly what Drusilla was and wasn't capable of.

            Originally posted by icecreamkiller View Post
            Actually, her parents sent her to her Watcher at the age of five. That's a whole load more time than Buffy ever had to prepare. Maybe it was an error on the part of her Watcher when he made her so submissive, but we have no way of knowing for sure whether that was really his fault. It may very well been Kendra's.
            As I said previously making Kendra as submissive as she was, was certainly not an accident of the watchers part. She was in their eyes the perfect slayer for the same reasons, as I have already stated above. In fact I am certain that many of the past slayers would have been quite similar to Kendra. It is Buffy's ability to break away from the mold of the watchers council and follow her own initiative and allow herself the good things in life that makes her great. Hell even in Fool For Love Spike says it is Buffy's friends that have allowed her to survive so long. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if other vampires who had fought Slayers had the same realisation as Spike. The Watcher council on the other hand had been background figures for so long that they have forgotten what it takes to make their "tool" great, but rather just want to bend it to their will.

            So in conclusion in terms of who fault Kendra's weaknesses lay with. I'd have to blame her Watcher who followed the outdated rules of the Watchers Council.
            Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 29-06-08, 11:49 PM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vampmaster View Post
              If Drusilla all along could kill Buffy effortlessly with her hypnotic powers as you are suggesting then why didn't she? (...) But, what about later in the season? When it was clear that Spike was getting sick of battling her and even knew himself that Buffy was a foe that he just couldn't win against.
              There's a whole number of factors to be taken into account here, such as proximity and time. To have Buffy under her hypnosis, Drusilla would have to be in a position where she'd be alone with Buffy (so that no one would interrupt her) and where she'd have enough time to do it without Buffy herself interrupting. We've already agreed that Buffy is a much more energetic fighter than Kendra, so it would be much more difficult for Drusilla to get her to stay still long enough to "get a lock" on her mind. Also, there's the whole deal where the writers tried to keep Buffy and Dru away from each other - going into the show's metaphors for adolescence, I believe they really wanted to emphasize Buffy's alienation from how far Angel's past reached - the relationship with the older guy that you can't really understand because so much happened in his life before you came along. Buffy's distance from Dru was a manifestation of that aspect of Buffy and Angel's relationship where there can't really be a full connection between her present life and all the things he's done, because they're at such different stages in their own lives (again, the metaphor for the teenage girl dating a far more experienced man).

              Then we also have Spike proposing to Drusilla numerous times that they leave town that she was bad luck. If Drusilla could truly kill Buffy then why would Spike have suggested such a thing? I mean the two had been together for over a 100 years he better than anyone would know exactly what Drusilla was and wasn't capable of.
              But he wasn't completely sure what Buffy was capable of. Spike really, honestly treasured and cared for Drusilla, and seeing how Buffy had held her own against Spike and Angel, he didn't want to risk the (un)life of the woman he loved so much by allowing her to face Buffy one-on-one unless it became necessary.


              As I said previously making Kendra as submissive as she was, was certainly not a fault of the watchers. She was in their eyes the perfect slayer for the same reasons, as I have already stated above. In fact I am certain that many of the past slayers would have been quite similar to Kendra. It is Buffy's ability to break away from the mold of the watchers council and follow her own initiative and allow herself the good things in life that makes her great. Hell even in Fool For Love Spike says it is Buffy's friends that have allowed her to survive so long. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if other vampires who had fought Slayers had the same realisation as Spike. The Watcher council on the other hand had been background figures for so long that they have forgotten what it takes to make their "tool" great, but rather just want to bend it to their will.
              Isn't that like blaming the parents for all of the child's faults as an adult? I'm not denying the possibility that Kendra's submissiveness came from the Watcher's Council motivating her Watcher to try and keep her away from a personal life, but we don't really know that much about Kendra's background. We don't know whether she had a chance at seeing "the outside world" and didn't take it, or saw it for what it was and decided not to explore it. If her Watcher is comfortable enough to send her all the way to the US to fight demons, it's not far-fetched to assume that she'd distanced herself from him before. She may very well have had the opportunity to break away from the mold she was put into and ignored that chance. Perhaps the reason she was "the perfect Slayer" was that her Watcher never needed to make much of an effort to dominate her when she was growing up. I repeat - it may have been partly Kendra's fault.

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              • #8
                I find it very strange that anybody could regard poor Kendra as "the perfect Slayer" . From early on it seemed to me that she might as well have had the word "victim" tattooed on her forehead. Being sold to the Council at the age of five she was betrayed by her parents.

                When we meet her she could be a good soldier working with Buffy, and might have developed if she could have lived and been been introduced the to rough and tumble her the world by Buffy and others. Fate decreed otherwise.

                Slayers are supposed to work alone for much of the time and Kendra's lack of initiative and submissiveness to authority would have been fatal handicaps.

                Drusilla avoided Buffy and I would be surprised if she would have lasted as long as a minute in a real fight.Over her seven years Buffy's success rate against vampires and similar was over 99 per cent.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael View Post
                  I find it very strange that anybody could regard poor Kendra as "the perfect Slayer" . From early on it seemed to me that she might as well have had the word "victim" tattooed on her forehead. Being sold to the Council at the age of five she was betrayed by her parents.
                  It makes perfect sense that the Council would regard her as the perfect soldier because she only cared about the mission. The Council does not have a personal connection to the Slayer because they're an organization fighting a war and they're aware that what they need to be connected to is the power of the Slayer and not the person who wields it. The Council is made up of several different people - the only way for the organization to work is for them to look only at the big picture, lest it fall apart due to infighting caused by its members focusing too much on a Slayer's personal life.

                  KENDRA
                  My parents - they sent me to my
                  watcher when I was very young.

                  BUFFY
                  How young?

                  KENDRA
                  I don't remember them, actually.
                  I've seen pictures . . . But that's how
                  seriously the calling is taken by my
                  people. My mother and father gave me
                  to my watcher because they believed
                  that they were doing the right thing
                  for me - and for the world. You see?


                  It wasn't betrayal.

                  Drusilla avoided Buffy and I would be surprised if she would have lasted as long as a minute in a real fight.Over her seven years Buffy's success rate against vampires and similar was over 99 per cent.
                  A good deal of that was because of the help she got from her friends. Drusilla may have a strange fighting style, but she was very able to hold her own against Angel in Reunion; in fact, she seemed to have the upper hand for most of the fight until they were interrupted by Darla. I do believe Buffy would have won in a fight, but let's not chalk up all of Buffy's victories to her "flawless combat skills".

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                  • #10
                    If it was not betrayal, I would say that the parents had been brainwashed. To judge from these quotes their attitude was like that of parents in a malevolent cult of child sacrifice.Do not doubt that the Council went back to those days. If the Council was "gray" you can be sure it was charcoal "gray"

                    If the Council thought Kendra was good enough for the job then the Council was incompetent, to put it charitably. This is confirmed, for me, by the obviously second rate quality of Quentin Travers and his senior colleagues when we meet them. You would not employ those guys to sell hot cakes in Alaska.

                    Moreover, I would say the Slayer was a large part of their picture. What else did they do exactly?That has never been clear. They needed to know that the Slayer was fully equipped to do the job and survive and Kendra was not. The Council was in institutional decline, I would argue.

                    You are are right, of course, to say the Buffy needed her friends. And they needed her. I think Willow was the first one that Buffy saved, actually. I don't know who you were quoting re Buffy's "flawless combat skills." but it was not me. I doubt if anybody has ever had "flawless combat skills." Even so, a single slayer will be outnumbered by too many vampires before long. According to Buffy most slayers were dead by the age of 25.
                    Last edited by Michael; 30-06-08, 01:57 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by icecreamkiller View Post
                      It wasn't betrayal.
                      Yeah that's how I viewed it too, her parents were proud of the fact their young child had been chosen out of her generation as the slayer, and they knew the importance of a slayer in regards to the world. I got a sense of pride from them out of what Kendra was speaking about than I ever did betrayal. Besides, they gave Kendra to be a potential, not a slayer, they couldn't have known she would be the slayer only that she had a chance of being one. I suspect many other parents did the same.

                      Regarding Kendra against Dru, I'm not sure if Buffy could have snapped out of that thrall either, which makes Dru so deadly. I do like the debates about it though and if it had anything to do with how Kendra lacked the imagination and strong will Buffy had, it's a neat theory.

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                      • #12
                        Kendra, both the character, and her narrative *purpose*, was to show the "perfect" according to Hoyle Slayer. Absolutely compliant female power, in other words. The well behaved woman who did not, in fact, ever make history. But there's a tie between what happened to Kendra and the plot of "Fool For Love", between that and stories that Superman and Batman comics have told for years (and very literally in the form of Doomsday and Bane), and even that Mal Reynolds pointed out in the "Firefly" episode "The Message.

                        "Doesn't matter who you are, there's always someone out there a little bigger, a little stronger" -- from the Superman comic right before Doomsday (who would kill Superman) burst out of the ground.

                        "There's someone walking around right now with a bullet with your name on it. The trick is to die of old age before he finds you." -- Malcolm Reynolds

                        It really doesn't matter if Drusilla could have killed Buffy so effortlessly for one big reason -- she never had the opportunity to try. Seriously, without writing an entirely new story for it, tell me when she could have tried, when she had a chance to pull that trick. The two times we've seen Drusilla use it, it took several seconds of concentration and she had no distractions. She couldn't have done that in "Crush", not with Spike and Harmony around to interfere. Name even one other episode, after she was cured, in which she even had a *crack* at Buffy.

                        In point of fact, I do think that had a full strength Dru who Buffy had never heard of laid an ambush for her, she *could* have killed Buffy as easily as she killed Kendra. I think you're making the mistake of treating Dru as some sort of ham-and-egger vampire, rather than one of the true vampire elite -- someone *every bit* the equal of Angelus, of Darla, of Luke, of Spike, and of their common ancestor, the Master. She was (and I suspect soon will be again) a walking nightmare of a threat, one of the most dangerous vampires walking the earth.
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                        • #13
                          List of Buffy/Dru contacts from reference;

                          1) Buffy sees Angel and Dru from afar in 'Lie to Me'

                          2) Buffy holds a weakened Dru hostage in 'Lie to Me'

                          3) Buffy unties Angel from a weakened and barley conscious Dru in 'What's My Line Part II'

                          3) Dru and Spike are inches away from Buffy and Angel in 'Surprise' as they are both held by vamps, but don't want to kill either of them themselves, they want the Judge to do it.

                          4) Buffy shoots a rocket at Dru/Angelus/Judge from afar in 'Innocence'

                          5) Buffy fights vamp henchmen and then Angelus as Dru and Spike fight in the background

                          6) Buffy and Dru fight in 'Crush' but are interrupted by Spike.

                          From memory they're all the occasions when either women are in the same room together. IMO King is right in saying she never got the opportunity to use the thrall. And in fact I'd go on to say it's possible she could have in 'Crush' just before Spike does interrupt. Like with Kendra, the two of them shared some blows but Dru needs her victim steady and unable to move to work her thrall, and she had Buffy in this position just before Spike batters her aside.

                          I think the only argument lies in wether or not one is able to get out of thrall. Wether it has to do with being strong-willed enough to resist it, like Buffy did with the Master in 'Prophecy Girl' or wether or not it's hypnosis where no matter how one tries, they couldn't resist it, both Giles and Kendra in 'Becoming'

                          The two seem to be different techniques. When the Master had you under his thrall he could stop you in his tracks or make you walk towards him, but Buffy's still fully aware of what is going on, she's fearful, holding her head ect. When Dru uses her mojo on Kendra, Kendra's dormant, she's frozen still. There is no expression on her face, no emotion showing. It's almost as if she's put to sleep, which is incredibly different to what the Master's thrall does which is probably why Buffy has the opportunity to get free.

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                          • #14
                            I think she was considered a perfect Slayer because she had jumped through all the "Slayer hoops". She was raised to be the perfect Slayer - studying the ancient books, reading the Slayer logs, Watcher logs - she could quote references to Giles. She was emersed from a very young age.

                            Also - I don't believe her parents "sold her" or "betrayed" her. They saw the opportunity to give their daughter what they considered to be a better life - a life that was considered privileged.

                            Buffy was always a little resistant to studying, learning the precise fighting moves, etc. It was a little unorthodox but that was the way she worked best.

                            Neither are incorrect.

                            As for Kendra dying at Drusilla's hands - in the famous words of my favorite vampire,

                            "All we need is one...good...day."

                            It was Kendra's time to go. I don't believe it came down to just Drusilla's powers. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just like any of the other Slayers that came before Buffy. They all had to die some way - at some time.
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                            • #15
                              When I read the title of the thread, I thought we were gonna talk about how, er, interesting it was that Kendra died from a nail scratch. I would've been more terrified if Dru had taken Kendra's stake against her. But, oh well, it was a great Dru moment nonetheless.
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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by ThePoet's<3 View Post
                                It was Kendra's time to go. I don't believe it came down to just Drusilla's powers. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just like any of the other Slayers that came before Buffy. They all had to die some way - at some time.
                                Agreed. And I think she would have faired far better if she had, had Mr Pointy with her. She looses on stake as she dusts the female vamp and you see her pat her jacket down looking for another, but she had just given it to Buffy. If she'd had another stake she could have dusted the other vampires, instead she was having to defend herself instead.

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                                • #17
                                  When Buffy was saving Willow in Welcome to the Hellmouth she had a brief exchange with Darla. It was clear that Buffy was kicking Darla's ass when Luke turned up. In fact Luke made a contemptuous remark about it. In view of the fact that Darla habitually dominated Dru, it is a reasonable inference that Buffy would have whacked Dru.

                                  There was a period when Dru was strong and Buffy,obviously, was their most formidable enemy. Yet Dru made no effort to seek out Buffy. We know that Dru was somewhat psychic. Did she already have the answer? On reflection, and looking at how much faster and more athletic Buffy was, I would give Dru 30 seconds.

                                  What happened in Crush, was that Spike had used a taser to make Buffy unconscious in a surprise move. Then he put Buffy's hands in chains, and that was the only time Dru had a go at Buffy.

                                  It may be that Kendra was the perfect slayer from the Council's point of view. Which means they did not want the best possible slayer. A Slayer who did not think for herself and did not make contacts with the world was better,from their point of view, than Buffy.

                                  It is agreed that Buffy's independence of mind and character and her friendships enabled her to survive. The Council did not like that. A steady supply of compliant, short lived slayers was more in accordance with the Council's program. Was this benevolent? Were these girls being sold into " a life of privilege"?

                                  I have a persistent vision of Quentin Travers and his friends going to the Royal Opera House and then on to slap up dinner at The Savoy, while a poor teenage girl carries on with her doomed struggle in a back alley, or some cold, dark cemetery.
                                  Last edited by Michael; 30-06-08, 05:23 PM.

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                                  • #18
                                    Seriously, if you come away from Drusilla, based on apparently nothing more than the casting, thinking that she's some "dead-before-the-credits" teaser vamp cannon fodder type of nothing, you... need to rewatch several episodes. The obvious intent is that she be considered *every bit* the threat that those in her line are. That's textual, that's inarguable. From the first explanation in "Lie to Me", to the idea that she was alive being terrifying to Buffy and the gang in "Suprise", to Spike pointing out that he flat out couldn't take her and Angel in "Becoming", to Angel basically freaking out about her being around in "Reunion", it's obvious that she is in that upper echelong of enemy. I don't even see how one can support an argument in the other direction without ignoring or contradicting canon. Drusilla is a big deal, as big as Angelus, as Spike in full-killing mode, and as Darla.
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                                    • #19
                                      You ignore the point that Darla dominated Dru easily, yet could only face Buffy with firearms. Moreover that incident was in Season One. We understand that Buffy gets stronger and stronger in these years, and by Season 3 Dru would have been even more outclassed.

                                      Kendra, on the other hand, had the type of character and background that made her more vulnerable to Dru's art.It is interesting that the factors that made Buffy a stronger opponent to the vampires, are exactly the same factors that made her a less satisfactory slayer to the Council. Am I the only person whose curiosity is aroused by this point?

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                                      • #20
                                        "Could only face Buffy with firearms"? She did it for fun! We only saw her go up against Buffy in a fistfight once, and that was a brief fight. Buffy got the crap beaten out of her by several villains (Glory, the first Turok-Han, Caleb, Adam) before she was ever able to take them. Not to mention that from the second season on, Darla is consistently portrayed as the worst of the worst, vicious and extremely dangerous. Like KingofCretins said, both BtVS and AtS made countless references to Drusilla being an immeasurably dangerous vampire. You don't rack up that sort of reputation by being a wimp. If that's not enough for you, just rewatch Reunion and see, besides Angel and team being scared out of their wits due to her being in town (remember Cordelia's frightened "Drusilla's here?" and Wesley's incredulous "Good Lord"?), Dru proving herself to be more than capable of holding her own in a fight against Angel. And when did Darla ever dominate Dru?

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