The Primitive Slayer and Premonitions....

[holypotatoes]

I was just watching Get It Done and this thought just popped into my head, do you think all the Slayers would get premonitions like Buffy always did in her dreams? I mean Buffy would always see the first slayer in her dreams and she would gain valuable information from it whether she knew it at the time. Do you think Faith or any of the previous slayers before Buffy had the first slayer pop into their dreams and give them clues on what was to come or do you think it was just the fact that Buffy was somehow more connected with her powers than the previous slayers were? Is Buffy's connection stronger because she sought out the history of slayers throughout her journey, like in season 5? We know that Buffy also had this weird connection with Faith. They were both able to show up in eachother's dreams, do you think that was a normal slayer thing? Like would that have happened if it were any other slayers living at the same time or is it something that's special between the two of them? Anyhoo, just some questions for ya'll.


Mods if this needs to be moved to general discussions, feel free.

[ThePoet's<3]

I know they mention in Fray that Melaka's brother Harth received the visions. (Melaka and Harth are fraternal twins. Malaka becomes the Slayer and Harth has the dreams.) So I am guessing it goes along with being a potential Slayer. Seems somewhere in one of the first season episodes - or I could actually be thinking about the MOVIE someone asks, "Do you have the dreams?"

[holypotatoes]

The "Do you have the dreams?" thing is from the movie. It's said by Merick. And I'm not even sure how much of the same stuff was used in the show from the movie. My only qualm about the dreams thing is that I don't think we ever hear Faith say anything about it. I mean you would think she would tell Buffy she sometimes has thing crazy primitive chick trying to kill her in her dreams (since that's usually what she's trying to do in Buffy's ). I would've assumed even Faith would have let Buffy in on that one, just to kind of check to see if that was a natural occurance or not.

[ThePoet's<3]

I think the dream scenes - although not mentioned as much in the series - was still a concept Joss intended to relay to the audiance.

Didn't Giles mention something about it in the early episodes of Season One? I think Tales of the Slayers may mention it as well.

But it's definately mentioned in Fray. (I can't wait for the Season 8/Fray storyline!)

[Weredog]

I think the other Slayers (present tense) do get dreams of The First Slayer, along with other past ones. In Season 8 "The Chain", the Buffy decoy felt the chain of Slayers that dated way back to the First Slayer. Something else that is interesting is that current Slayers are able to dream of Potential Slayers, re: "Beneath You".

[KingofCretins]

Buffy's prophetic dreams are referenced in "Hush", as well --

Giles: "'Can't even shout/Can't even cry/The gentlemen are coming by.' Um, it sounds vaguely familiar. You're sure it's - nothing you heard when you were a child?

"Oh alright. Nothing else?

"Well i-it could definitely be one of your prophetic dreams, or it could just be the eternal mystery that is your brain. But I-I'll check it out and um, I'll let you know if I find something."

The impression is there that these are, whether major or minor, at least somewhat routine to Buffy and Giles.

The reference to the prophetic dreams *is* included in Joss' movie script, and is adapted in "The Origin" by Dark Horse. The conversation actually took place almost immediately after the first meeting with Merrick we see in "Becoming". The *text* of the discussion in the movie is almost verbatim from Joss' script, although, it continued thusly --

MERRICK: Did you ever dream that you were someone else?

BUFFY: Everybody does.

MERRICK: In the past, a girl, maybe... a Magyar peasant. An Indian princess, a prostitute in China.

BUFFY: God, I never told anyone about that. What is this, like, channeling or something?

MERRICK: It's you, Buffy. Your dreams are merely your own self trying to remind you who you are, and to warn you, perhaps, of the great evil rising there. Is there a common thread in these dreams? Something that occurs in all of them?

BUFFY: I'm always fighting... killing these monsters... and... okay, this is weird. In all the dreams, I'm a different person, but the monsters, the vampires, all call me the same name.

MERRICK: "Slayer."

BUFFY: God, it's all true, isn't it? This is not my day.

All that was right there on the Hemery steps.

So the dreams are both a way to unify the Slayer to her predecessors, emotionally, historically (perhaps even tactically; she could learn from them), and to foretell impending danger. While we never learn that Faith has these dreams first hand, we *do* know Slayers dream weird anyway, and that Faith has essentially shared dreams with Buffy.

Further, we know that all other Slayers have these dreams -- Dana's entire rampage in "Damage" was based on them, and (Season 8)

Spoiler:

both Buffy's TV ad mentions them as a reason to call their "hotline" in "The Chain", and Genevieve complains about them in "No Future For You".

Weredog, I don't think Buffy was "dreaming of Potentials" in some unique way -- those dreams were her regular old foretelling kind, foretelling the rise of the First. It's in one of her Slayer dreams that she is first given the warning "from beneath you, it devours".

[Josh]

Sorry to skip on what everyone said--

Yes, I believe every Slayer gets premonitions. It's something that comes with the job.
In the first episode, we get a glimpse of the entire first season - a premonition.
We didn't see it with other slayers because we don't focus on them as much as we do with buffy.

Also, she doesn't always gets it from the first slayer. In 'Passions' she gets a clue about Jenny.

I think all the slayers are getting premonitions.

Another theory that just popped--

Since Buffy made every potential into slayer, I think the slayer in charge gets premonitions. (just something I thought of)

[Boltmaiden]

ThePoet's<3: Giles does say something to Buffy about dreams in the first episode. She is trying to brush off the harvest and he says something to the effect "your right my calculations could be off, it's not like you are having the dreams."

The reason I remember this is I have recently restarted watching the series

[Theresa Marie86]

I believe that every slayer does have the dreams. I wish they could of touched on them more though. She doesnt have dreams all the times, mainly in the first half of the show. It wouldve been cool if they kept her premonitions consistent in the series. It also wouldve been awesome if we couldve see more dreams from faith. Of course we see the ones were she is in a coma but it would've been way cool if she had a few premonition dreams.

[OkinawanSteel]

Doesn't Genevieve mentioned having dreams, too? The dreams were mentioned enough for me to under the (possible wrong) impression that all Slayers and Potentials have some type of dreams related to their Slayer-ness, anyway. I think only Buffy and Faith have been shown having a shared dream as of yet, so it's up in the air if that is something unique to them or not. It is a topic I wish they'd discuss further, along with Faith's (and later others'. Is it Tara that references her in "Restless"?) perceived knowledge of Dawn's existence, in some form, two years before she actually existed. Another dream-related topic I'd like to know more about. Actually, I particularly enjoy any topic related to Slayer-ness, and after all the changed we've seen, I think some time definitely needs to be spent on the subject. I'm hopeful it'll come up in the Fray arc.

[miscjj06]

We know that the slayers get memories of the past slayers because of an episoid of Angel involving a potential in a mental hospital. Due to her mental state she is confused as to which experiences are just dreams and which ones are real memories, resulting in a mesh of the two. I won't say the rest because I don't know how to set up a spoiler. Anyway, the episoid is in season five, but I don't remember what it was called. I hope that helps.

[Vampire in Rug]

The episode was called Damage and I don't think spoiler tags are necessary since the episode aired years ago and has since been released on DVD. Anyone who cares enough not to be spoiled should already know.

And yeah, all potential slayers get dreams of past slayers. All slayers get the occasional prophetic dream too.

[stormwreath]

Going by 'The Origin', the episodes of the TV show, 'Damage', and season 8, I think it's safe to say:

All Slayers get prophetic dreams and dreams of the past lives of other Slayers. The only known exception to this is Melaka, whose twin brother got them instead.

Some get these dreams even when they were still potentials. Gigi got them at puberty; some may have got them even earlier. On the other hand, some seem to not have them until they're actually Called.

Mel comments (in 'Tales of the Slayers') that one of the big benefits Slayers get in combat is their subconscious memories of all the fights and opponents faced by previous Slayers.

However, I think that Buffy's direct, face-to-face interaction with the First Slayer is something different and special. It first happens in 'Restless' immediately after she and the other three used magic to summon the power of the First Slayer and join together to defeat Adam. Giles says that this invocation offended her; I get the impression that it also awoke her and allowed her to contact Buffy directly.

[kassyopeia]

Since nobody has mentioned it yet, prophetic dreams also are a big part in the Angelus arc, foretelling both Angel losing his soul and being resuscitated.

Weredog, I don't think Buffy was "dreaming of Potentials" in some unique way -- those dreams were her regular old foretelling kind, foretelling the rise of the First. It's in one of her Slayer dreams that she is first given the warning "from beneath you, it devours".

I dunno, both interpretations seem valid. Since they're all connected to the Slayer's power somehow, they're connected to each other, and it doesn't seem a big stretch to think that sharing a death experience would be a result of that.

She doesnt have dreams all the times, mainly in the first half of the show. It wouldve been cool if they kept her premonitions consistent in the series.

Good point. She pretty much stops having the normal dreams after season 2 and starts again in season 7, with the exception of "Hush". Both the Mayor and Glory seem more worthy of a dream-warning than the Gentlemen... but that's apparently not how it works.

However, I think that Buffy's direct, face-to-face interaction with the First Slayer is something different and special. It first happens in 'Restless' immediately after she and the other three used magic to summon the power of the First Slayer and join together to defeat Adam. Giles says that this invocation offended her; I get the impression that it also awoke her and allowed her to contact Buffy directly.

Yeah, I agree. After all, the Primitive intruded upon the other three's dreams as well, and there is no mention of them sharing any of her normal prophecy dreams in season 7 as a result of their mindmeld that brought about "Restless".

[miscjj06]

Here is a question? How did Drusilla get her Premonitions? Was she origionally a potential who was damned before she could be called, or simply wasn't called? Could Drusilla have even more in common with Buffy than we origionally thought?

[kassyopeia]

Here's the scene from "Angel" that contains a few clues:

EXT. ALLEY/STREET - FLASHBACK - NIGHT

Darla and Angel exit the alley and walk along the street.

ANGEL
What is it?

DARLA
Surprise. You have to guess.

Angel scans the street, his senses alert.

PAN - Various people, potential victims. A FAMILY (FATHER, MOTHER, 
THREE TEENAGE TO EARLY TWENTIES DAUGHTERS) emerges from a 
restaurant. We shouldn't see the girls' faces.

Angel focuses on the family.

ANGEL
The three daughters…
all virgins.

He moves after them, Darla moves with him.

DARLA
You're close…

ANGEL
The one in the middle has
something delicate and unique…
(to Darla, impressed)
Did you find me a Saint?

DARLA
Better than that… she has the sight.

ANGEL
Visions? She sees the future?

Darla nods merrily. Angel's hunger is mounting.

ANGEL
She is pure innocence, yet she
sees what's coming, she knows
what I'm going to do to her…

ANGLE - THE FAMILY

Walking away from us. The girl in the middle turns. It's DRUSILLA. 
Her eyes are wide and innocent but marked by fear. She looks 
straight into Angel's eyes.

ANGEL
I'll really have to come up to
snuff for this one.

Drusilla, shaken, quickly looks back. Angel would keep after 
her but Darla puts a hand on his arm and stops them both.

It's not really conclusive, but I'm leaning towards a different source of power. Drusilla seems to be giving off a "white vibe" here, hence the "Saint" comment, whereas a potential would (if anything) be giving off a "dark vibe" because she's connected to something demonic, no?

It could be a milder form of the visions that Doyle/Cordelia/Angel get from the Powers...

[Theresa Marie86]

No i don't think Drusulla was a potential. I think she was a seer. She simply had images in her head of furture happenings.

[miscjj06]

Ok, then what made her a seer? What exactly is a seer? If it was the powers that be they would have likely let her know is in some cryptic way or tried to step in when Angelus was tormenting her. Doyle knew who sent him the visions, Drusilla didn't. I highly doubt that the powers that be were involved in her visions. So how did she get them and to what purpose?

[stormwreath]

Ok, then what made her a seer? What exactly is a seer? If it was the powers that be they would have likely let her know is in some cryptic way or tried to step in when Angelus was tormenting her. Doyle knew who sent him the visions, Drusilla didn't. I highly doubt that the powers that be were involved in her visions. So how did she get them and to what purpose?

You might as well ask what made Willow and Tara witches. Seems to me that some people in the Buffyverse are born with supernatural powers, some acquire them through study, some are Chosen by mystical forces... there are all sorts of ways.

[kassyopeia]

Ok, then what made her a seer? What exactly is a seer?

In the Angelverse, I'd say canon suggests (no more than that, though) that the Powers are generally involved in this sort of thing. Two quotes, off the top of my head:

"The magnificent eyes of a seer. Your very own pipeline to the Powers That Be, folks."

"The host reads people's auras to set them on their path. In some shape or form that connects him to the Powers That Be"

But, as a said in another thread, the metaphysics in "Buffy" and "Angel" are so different that trying to mesh them generally just leads to confusion, and since Drusilla is very much a "Buffy" character, my comparison is probably not all that useful.

If it was the powers that be they would have likely let her know is in some cryptic way or tried to step in when Angelus was tormenting her.

I didn't mean to imply as close a connection as would allow us to make that conclusion. Doyle's visions had both a reason and a purpose, but that isn't to say that this has to be always the case, even if the source is the same.