Why the Initiative? Spike!

[lee]

Ive noticed that my favorite season, season 4, is quite unpopular!
Maybe people dont like the 'Big Bad', or the Initiative arc, or it wasnt as intense and gripping as 2 and 3.
I was thinking and it seems to me that the Initiative/Adam arc probably came about
while Joss was wondering how to incorporate Spike into the scene.
Joss probaly knew he wanted to make spike a mainstay as early as the 2nd half
of s2.
So when Joss was sitting wondering how to take away Spikes threat to the scoobies, he comes up with the chip idea, then that gets him thinking of a government agency, and he realized he could maybe do alot more than just chip spike, they could do a full arc from it.

I think theres a good chance this may be the case, and it would explain why the arc wasnt as tight and gripping as the previous seasons, as it was almost forced upon them, because if they didnt chip Spike, how else could they bring him into it.

[tangent]

Season 4 is a funny one for me,

I think it contains some of the best single eps there are. However the overall arc i think is one of the weaker ones and the shame of it is that it could have been done so much better.

Adam is not the most interesting big bad but i think the Frankenstein comparison could actually have been pushed a little further and that this might have resulted in a more interesting villain. More self reflection along with more verbalising of this (Wether to spike or someone else) would have been good.

I also think that Maggie was done away with too quickly. It would have been interesting to keep her around for a bit, see how she reacts to Adam being on the loose. Is she willing to join the scoobies to undo the harm she's done? Is she protective of her creation even to the bitter end? We never get to see.

I'm not sure if you're right about the spike thing. It makes sense but I think there's other ways to get spike to where he needs to be and the technology v nature and govermnment/ military v the chosen few angles are interestin. I just think they could probably have been handled better.

[Enisy]

They were going to keep Maggie Walsh around longer -- I believe she was even intended to be the Big Bad of the season -- but the actress had other obligations and wanted out, if memory serves.

[lee]

They couldnt really have used magic/curse again, a chip was really the only way.

[Enisy]

James Marsters wanted him to fall in love with Buffy, and have that be his "leash", instead of the chip. Might have been interesting. As the vampire mythology stands at the moment, it wouldn't have been sufficient to keep him in check, but back then, maybe they could have dragged it out a bit further. We'll never know.

[lee]

Theres no way a evil vampire would seriously fall in love with a slayer if there wasnt some sort of chip/magic spell happening. Just falling in love would be a bit silly.

[tangent]

They couldnt really have used magic/curse again, a chip was really the only way.

I don't know. It depends on the magic and why it's being done. I wouldn't want heim to get his soul back straight away though that would be too like Angel. You could also use thchnology without necessarily having the whole initiative schtick too.

I'm not saying you're wrong but there would have been other options.

[basakbangel]

I like season 4, I've always thought that It's the happy season compared to others.

But honestly I didnt like Adam and initiave that much. When ATS came up, Joss thought of the best case to get Spike into the scoobie. The chip thing was pretty ok, cause what else could he do? Well, I'm not exactly sure if Spike really really fell in love with Buffy in S4, I dont know but It was probably what happend, the evil spike fell in love.

[lee]

I think it was 'out of my mind' when spike realized he was in love with her

[Michael]

I agree with tangent that it all could have been done better.It could have been my favorite season if Buffy could have been in something like a Midsummer Nights Dream world, with her small band of outsiders and eccentrics, including a nice werewolf and a friendly vampire, up against the "machine" of government,the military, and big science. The danger would have been sentimentality.

It would have been better if Maggie Walsh had become an anguished, self-doubting scientist who had to be killed for that reason.

The salvation of Riley is moving. In fact the role of the Slayer as redeemer-of Angel,Spike,Riley,Andrew and maybe others --could be studied more than it has been.

I think Hush, with the silent gentlemen, is a masterpiece, as is Superstar, which represents every outsider's daydream. Restless ,of course, lies right at the heart of BtVS.

Season 4,then,IMO contains a lot of "classic" stuff without quite being a classic when taken as a whole. Perhaps it was just undercooked?

[sueworld]

I don't know. It depends on the magic and why it's being done. I wouldn't want heim to get his soul back straight away though that would be too like Angel. You could also use thchnology without necessarily having the whole initiative schtick too.

I'm not saying you're wrong but there would have been other options.

When I first saw this season, I wasn't keen on the whole 'Buffy meets the X Files' gag that they had going on, but looking back on it now I really enjoyed the majority of it. Especially 'Hush' and 'Superstar'.

I rather liked the chip idea. It had a 'harsher/nastier' feel to the idea, which fitted in nicely with the whole 'mankind v demon' theme that this season had.

[KingofCretins]

I kinda liked the premise of bringing Spike and Drusilla both back and chipping both of them. THAT, would have been comedy. Enisy and I joked about how funny it would have been to have Buffy and Spike, and Xander and Dru, start secretive relationships that everyone is trying to keep secret from each other.

I don't, however, think the Initiative arc was devised solely as a way to bring Spike in -- they could have done that in other ways. Heck, they could have kept him around as an irksome villain with whom they were frequently forced to cooperate despite still being a legitimate threat. The Initiative arc had a much broader story to tell, the mystical vs. technical, emotional vs. rational. Lots of heavy stuff. Probably the most high concept season they did on the show.

[sueworld]

I don't, however, think the Initiative arc was devised solely as a way to bring Spike in

Oh I agree, that was but one of many elements. Others were the introduction of Riley as Buffy's love interest, and the gradual development of what it is to be a Slayer. Spike as 'sidekick' was just part of that.

It was only in later seasons that the character went beyond this initial premise and developed into something more complex.

[lee]

I dont thimk the Initiative arc was made solely to bring Spike in, i just think theres a very high chance that Joss came up with the initiative idea while thinking how to bring Spike back.

[Jade]

Regards the 'Initiative', did anyone else have a problem with Riley’s friend, the black guy? Sorry can't remember his name at the moment. Did he seem to be jealous of Buffy's relationship with Riley?

[lee]

Forrest! Yeah, i didnt like him. I think he was jealous that his best bud Reilly was always spending time with Buffy. It was quite childish.
All the initiative boys, including Reilly were narrow minded.

[litzie]

Oh, Forest was totally in love with Riley. Please.

I love season 4. I definitely don't buy the idea that the Initiative was conceived as a way of incorporating Spike into the gang though...not even as a big reason for it. I think the idea of magic vs technology (or more historically, faith vs reason) was a very logical place for the series to go, and after defeating the authority of the counsel/the mayor in season 3, the military seems like a reasonable next step. I think the chip came about as a result of trying to find a place for Spike within an already conceived season.

[Jade]

Oh, I'm glad others got that. I know the character wasn't gay but I find myself wondering if the actor is. I think that's when it began to change for me. I didn't enjoy it as much once the 'Initiative' came into it. Not that I have anything against gays, I hasten to add. But the soldiers were made out to be so dumb. And that creep Parker and his likening Buffy to a toilet seat! Sorry, I'm getting carried away.

[litzie]

Oh, I'm glad others got that. I know the character wasn't gay but I find myself wondering if the actor is. I think that's when it began to change for me. I didn't enjoy it as much once the 'Initiative' came into it. Not that I have anything against gays, I hasten to add. But the soldiers were made out to be so dumb. And that creep Parker and his likening Buffy to a toilet seat! Sorry, I'm getting carried away.

Right, I actually mean that the subtext WAS that forest (the character, I really don't think the actor's sexuality has anything to do with it) was a bit gay. Though this is the Jossverse, so there are few characters for which such a subtext doesn't exist! Gotta love it.

[Jade]

Yeah, you're right. I was just making a comment about my thoughts on the actor who played Forest.