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  • Those Middle of the Road Episodes

    So, everyone acknowledges the awesome episodes and (for some reason) the incredibly sucky and cringe worthy episodes, but no one ever seems to notice the good episodes, just not awesome ones. What are your favorite middle of the road episodes?

    Some of mine are "Out of Mind, Out of Sight"/"The Pack" (amazing for season 1), "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" (sooooo funny!), "Choice" (Willow is so kick ass), "The Zeppo" (love following Xander), "The Freshman" (an amazing opener), "Pangs" (again, soooooo funny!), "The Yoko Factor" (the end fight = ), "Family" (beautifully touching), "Into The Woods" (the two speeches!), "After Life" (creepy), etc.

    Wow, that was a lot.

  • #2
    That's not a horrible list of episodes, but a few of those might be above "middle-of-the-road," as you put it. I mean, The Zeppo and Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered are really fantastic episodes. I mean, compared to Innocence or something, maybe not, but... They're a bit above "just good." Er...sorry. Not the point I was meaning to make. What I meant to say was, good thread, let me see if I can add something constructive~ I'm going to agree with you on Out of Mind, Out of Sight, then add Halloween and Checkpoint. Now, I may well be a bit of a hypocrite after ranting like that up there and then naming these two, but I'd say that, while good, they're not great and are far from "amazing."

    Halloween has cat-suit Cordy and military Xander -- both funny AND helpful. As for Checkpoint, despite having the first appearance (I think) of the Knights of Byzantium, which I'm not all too fond of, we've got that amazing final scene that really sets the tone for the remainder of Season 5. Yeah, those two are nice.
    "There ain't no sin and there ain't no virtue. There's just stuff people do. It's all part of the same thing. And some of the things folks do is nice, and some ain't nice, but that's just as far as any man got a right to say." -- Jim Casy

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    • #3
      Yeah, I shouldn't have put "good" I meant okay-great episodes as "middle of the road" If you were ranking them, it would be from 7.5/10 - 9/10 episodes. The ones I chose were mostly 9/10s, like "The Freshman", "BBB", "The Yoko Factor", "Into The Woods", etc. IMO, "The Zeppo" is actually around 8.5/10. So, I kinda worded it wrong Sorry.

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      • #4
        Yeah, I got what you meant. I just got all tangent-y and couldn't help myself. And I agree with the 8.5 for The Zeppo, too... I've never understood why so many people seem to think it a perfect 10. Glad to see someone who agrees for once~
        "There ain't no sin and there ain't no virtue. There's just stuff people do. It's all part of the same thing. And some of the things folks do is nice, and some ain't nice, but that's just as far as any man got a right to say." -- Jim Casy

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        • #5
          I agree, the Zeppo is good, but definately not a 10.
          I like all the episodes you've named, and right now I just can't think of any =S

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          • #6
            Finally! Others who think The Zeppo is good! I only every read bad things about it.

            I'm a big fan of Doomed and Out of My Mind...two eps that get a lot of hate from fans. They're both actually in my top 20 list. I just think they are good. The I in Team is another "middle of the road" ep that I also quite enjoy. A New Man is also another great middle one. So funny, imo! Life Serial, Living Conditions, Into the Woods....those are some others I like.
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            • #7
              So is this kind of like listing the episodes you think deserve more credit? Sorry I'm just a little confused?

              If it is then I'd agree with 'Halloween' for sure. It's a very fun episode with some really nice scenes in it. I really like the scene with Spike and Dru as Spike's watching Buffy on the tape, and the scene when Buffy and Willow sneak into Giles' office to read up more about Angel is hysterical. I love Buffy's "look at me when I'm talking to you!" Also nice foreshadowing to 'Becoming Part I' with the illustration of Darla in Giles' diary.

              I'd also say 'The Freshman' is another episode that doesn't get the credit it deserves. It's full of great scenes, the scene when Giles tells Buffy she has to stand on her own is so very sad for Buffy, as is the scene with the lecturer kicks her out of his class I hate that man! And the scene when Xander gives Buffy his speech is amazing, one of the best scenes these two share in the series. And Sunday is an amazing villian, it was very shocking seeing Buffy get her ass kicked like that (amazing fight scene by the way) and I adore the scene at the end when Buffy claims her power back and the Scoobie's charge in to help save the day. I love seeing Buffy get her confidence back and kick some ass, and I missed the Scoobies like this in later seasons of the show.

              I'd also say 'New Moon Rising' deserves more credit as well, Alyson's acting is superb throughout that entire episode. The scene she shares with Oz at the end of the episode is also incredibly sad and touching as well.

              Other's deserving mention, I agree with 'The Zeppo' for sure, that's a great episode. I also really enjoy 'BB&B' and don't think 'I Only Have Eyes For You' gets anywhere near the attention it deserves. I also think 'Who Are You?' doesn't get the praise it deserves either, it's an amazing episode and you very rarley see it get mentioned by a lot of people.

              ~ Banner by Nina ~

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              • #8
                Choices is a wonderful episode that I think it?s a little underrated.. Into the Woods, Out of My Mind, The Harsh Light of Day, I Was Made To Love you, Crush, When she was bad. These are some of the episodes that I think they are great.

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                • #9
                  Choices is a wonderful episode that I think it?s a little underrated
                  Totally agree, not enough people give the Episode its due. Other Episodes I think that are Underated. Halloween, Family, Help, I was made to love you, and Anne.

                  'Who Are You?' I Concur, Its in my top 5 of the season and top 10 of the series. The scene in the bathroom where faith is practicing being Buffy is so much fun to watch. I can tbelieve people wouldnt like it.

                  BTW-The Zeppo is NOT!!! one of those Episode in my lists as its IMO one of the top 10 worst in the series
                  Last edited by skinless; 13-05-08, 11:35 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post


                    I'd also say 'The Freshman' is another episode that doesn't get the credit it deserves. It's full of great scenes, the scene when Giles tells Buffy she has to stand on her own is so very sad for Buffy, as is the scene with the lecturer kicks her out of his class I hate that man! And the scene when Xander gives Buffy his speech is amazing, one of the best scenes these two share in the series. And Sunday is an amazing villian, it was very shocking seeing Buffy get her ass kicked like that (amazing fight scene by the way) and I adore the scene at the end when Buffy claims her power back and the Scoobie's charge in to help save the day. I love seeing Buffy get her confidence back and kick some ass, and I missed the Scoobies like this in later seasons of the show.

                    I'd also say 'New Moon Rising' deserves more credit as well, Alyson's acting is superb throughout that entire episode. The scene she shares with Oz at the end of the episode is also incredibly sad and touching as well.

                    I also really enjoy 'BB&B' and don't think 'I Only Have Eyes For You' gets anywhere near the attention it deserves. I also think 'Who Are You?' doesn't get the praise it deserves either, it's an amazing episode and you very rarley see it get mentioned by a lot of people.
                    I couldnt agree with you more, especially regarding 'New Moon Rising'. I think the acting his top notch in this episode, and Alyson Hannigan is amazing in the scene when she is with Tara:

                    ***TARA: (struggles for a moment) Whatever, you know, happens ... I'll still
                    be here. I'll still be your friend.
                    WILLOW: Of course we'll be friends! That's not even a question.
                    TARA: (upset) But I'm saying, I know what Oz means to you.
                    WILLOW: How can you, when I'm not even sure? I mean, I know what he meant
                    to me. But he left, and... everything changed. I changed, and... then we--
                    TARA: What?
                    WILLOW: (teary) I don't know. I just - life was starting to get so good
                    again, and -- (sighs, moves closer to Tara) You're a big part of that.
                    (Crying) And here comes the thing I wanted most of all, and... I don't know
                    what to do, I ... I wanna know, but I don't.
                    (Tara looks sympathetic. She brushes the tears off Willow's cheek.)
                    TARA: Do what makes you ... h-h-happy.
                    (Willow hugs her. Tara strokes Willow's hair.)***

                    Plus its a really pivotal Willow episode imo.

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                    • #11
                      Anne is definitively amazing and doesn?t get enough love. One that I really like watching is Reptile Boy and Lie to Me.
                      Lie to Me, imo, is very underrated.

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                      • #12
                        Lie to Me, imo, is very underrated
                        You are correct, Plus Lie to me is made better by the terrific acting Of Jason Behr and Sarah michelle gellar. Both are fantastic. Plus Anne is completely Underrated, Its the 3rd best season premiere IMO>
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                        • #13
                          good thread, Ben....though I agree with Skinless, The Zeppo is in my bottom of the lows of all time....so it's a matter of personal taste.

                          Some episodes I think are underrated are:

                          Crush - in my top 20 of all time
                          Pangs - in my top 10 of all time
                          Living Conditions - I actually hated this eppy the first few times I watched it, but after watching the series millions of times, it's become a closet favorite - it's too funny!
                          Beer Bad - yep, that's right, it's friggin' hysterical when you get past the stupid plot...
                          The Initiative -
                          "And if you hurt her, I'll beat you to death with a shovel. A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."
                          The Harsh Light of Day - just sheer fun to watch
                          Out of My Mind - "Out.For.A.Walk.Bitch."
                          Doomed - oh, come on!
                          After Life - I just love the stairwell scene - it moves me to tears every stinkin' time.
                          Sleeper - "Soulless Spike would have had me upside down and half-way to happy land by now."
                          The Puppet Show - yes, I said underrated, it's too funny!
                          Beauty & the Beasts - Giles getting shot in the ass with the tranq gun is enough to propel it up IMO...
                          A New Man!!!! That eppy is friggin' hilarious!
                          Buffy vs. Dracula - This is actually in my top 20.....I found it over the top funny and a great Spoof of Dracula!
                          I Only Have Eyes for You - just a beautiful eppy
                          Never Kill a Boy on the First Date - The first eppy of the series that actually showed that the show had promise
                          Halloween! One of my favorite underrated eppy's...it has so much to offer!
                          Helpless - This is actually probably in my top 20 eppy's of all time - I just love the storyline and the acting in this.
                          Normal Again - I think Joss was a genius with this eppy....to leave you guessing at the end that she's been in a mental institution the entire time is ingenius!
                          Lies My Parents Told Me - I never get the hate for this eppy - I find it really good, and I love seeing the flashback with Spike from his prose days. Good eppy, good acting. Nuff said.
                          Last edited by LRae12; 16-05-08, 03:36 PM.
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                          • #14
                            I really don?t mind watching every single episode of Buffy. I love it, no matter how corny or how bad it really is. I think that speaks volumes of how I love Buffy. Even IRYJ that I?d rather not see, I don?t mind watching.

                            About Lies my Parents Told Me - I love that episode so much, beyond reason that I have a hard time believing why someone dislikes that episode.
                            But different opinions, I guess!

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                            • #15
                              About Lies my Parents Told Me - I love that episode so much, beyond reason that I have a hard time believing why someone dislikes that episode.
                              But different opinions, I guess!
                              I gotta say that agree with the two of you. This episode is actually pretty good IMO How can anyone not Lke it.
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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by skinless View Post
                                I gotta say that agree with the two of you. This episode is actually pretty good IMO How can anyone not Lke it.
                                I dislike it for a number of reasons.

                                I can't sit through that episode and find it enjoyable when nearly any character who has a major part in the story is written to be pretty unlike-able.

                                Spike's an utter ass for laying into Wood about Nikki not loving him, as if he had any clue about their relationship, and he's an ass for saying he doesn't give a piss about killing her.

                                Buffy was pretty bad to tell Wood that she'd allow Spike to kill him if he tries anything again, and I didn't find it the most endearing character development to learn she'd toss Dawn off the tower now even if practically it makes the most sense.

                                Though I understand why he felt like he had to (given Buffy's blatant ignorance regarding Spike's trigger) Giles went behind Buffy's back and tried to lure her away so that he could have one of her soldiers assassinated.

                                And Wood went behind Buffy's back to kill Spike when he knew Spike had a soul.

                                So it was none of these characters brightest moments at all. Other factors include;

                                *Xander gets one freakin line in the entire episode and just stands around there for the rest
                                * The rest of the Scoobies have very little to do, as per usual.
                                * It was an episode supposed to resolve the Spike trigger but we never even find out what the First had in store for him in the first place.
                                * The writer's lame explanation as to why Spike should even care his mother was being mean to him, I believe they used the words "I guess" in their commentary. I'll chalk it up to poor writing along with the rest of the season, seems they forget they were writing soulless Spike in the flashbacks instead of Spike s7.

                                ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                                • #17
                                  The Freshman is still my #1 BtVS episode. Well usually, varies on mood People complain that Buffy is portrayed as weak, but that's what I love about the episode and her character. She is ultimately triumphant.. and not just against the vampires but against herself. I watch it to feel better sometimes... also When She Was Bad with the bone crunching scene really gets to me in a similar way.

                                  Intervention is another of my top #5 episodes. Mostly for the funny, but also for some Buffy self discovery again... before she got dark.

                                  As for Lies.. I kind of enjoy it now. But that could be because I watch it with the commentary, and love me some Wood. (LOL) But the first couple of times I saw it.. well actually I disliked it so much I fell asleep when it aired.
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                                  • #18
                                    Ha! I fell asleep during 'Conversations With Dead People' when it first aired over here in Oz But I'd be on holiday over in the UK and had seen it once already so I gave myself a guilt free pass.

                                    ~ Banner by Nina ~

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                                    • #19
                                      Good topic! Let's see..

                                      Out of Mind, Out of Sight
                                      Halloween - Underrated piece of work!
                                      Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered - So frickin fabulous! Love it.
                                      Homecoming - Here's another underrated. I really loved this episode.
                                      Helpless - I don't get why people don't like it so much.
                                      Earshot - Definitely in my top 15!
                                      Fear, Itself
                                      Pangs - An amazing, humorous episode.
                                      No Place Like Home - Not a great episode, but certainly not a bad one!
                                      Forever - Top 10, baybeh!!!
                                      Hell's Bells - Okay, a little crappy, I have to admit, but such an emotional roller-coaster ride for Xander.
                                      Help
                                      Him - Top 10, baybeh!!!

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                                      • #20
                                        vampmogs, I also like it because all of the characters are conflicted with each other at that time and I really dig that. I?m not morbid or anything, but I like it when people are fighting and disagreeing with each other. It makes for a dark ambiance. the fight between Wood and Spike is awesome and he finds out a truth or two about him and the nature of a slayer/vampire. The flashbacks are wonderful. Is it just me or was Spike a really bad poet?

                                        About the episodes, I really like Checkpoint, Blood Ties, Helpless, Consequences. I think people overlook Consequences a little because of Bad Girls.

                                        This is my 300th post. Cool!

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