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Were They controlling Buffy's Life?

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  • Were They controlling Buffy's Life?

    Well, I gotta say this accusation started in fanfic, but it seemed that some fans believe that Xander and Willow were controlling Buffy throughout her life, especially her love life. Do you believe it's true or is it one extreme accusation from biased shippers?
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  • #2
    Not to sound too spammy but how exactly were they controlling her? I actually don't understand. Influence her? Well yes, so did Giles, Angel, Spike, Dawn, Joyce, etc. But Buffy is and was very self possessed. I'm curious as to what is behind the argument.

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    • #3
      How were they controlling over her love life? The worse Xander ever did was make comments about how dead Angel is. He never held it against her (save when Angel went evil ) Xander and Willow have only done the best friend thing where if they were indeed concerned with Buffy's love life, then they would let her know about it. But in no way did they control her.
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      • #4
        Just like Kana, I like to know; how exactly?

        Because about her love life; Xander didn't like Angel or Spike. It never stopped Buffy from dating them. Willow was supportive about Angel and Riley. I don't know how much she knew about Spike, but Willows view never changed Buffy's relations with her men either.

        Buffy knows really well what she wants, and nobody is controlling her life but herself. If sombody changes Buffy's life in a way she doesn't want it, she can be pretty pissed. She had trouble with the fact that Angel dumped her, because it changed her life in a way she didn't wanted it to change. However, she dumped him more as once that year. Buffy likes control. Especially in season 7, when Buffy wants to be the leader or she isn't playing in the team at all.

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        • #5
          Sosa, between this and the Xander-is-an-abusive-boyfriend thing from BuffyWorld, I think you hang out with too many insane people

          Not only did her friends not *control* her love life, it was a rare and impressive day if they could even substantially *influence* it. If she wanted something that she thought they wouldn't approve of, she just hid it (Angel in Season 3, Spike in Season 6), or if she knew they didn't approve or had concerns, she'd openly ignore them (Riley in "The I in Team"). The only time I can think of that *anyone* really pushed Buffy one way or another on a relationship issue successfully was Xander in "Into the Woods", and it was hardly a negative influence.
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          • #6
            Considering the fact all of her relationships ended for reason not relating to Willow or Xander, I don't think they were controlling. I mean, yeah, they voiced their opinions about her relationships, even when not asked, but Buffy didn't have the best judgment when it came to guys.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kana View Post
              Not to sound too spammy but how exactly were they controlling her? I actually don't understand. Influence her? Well yes, so did Giles, Angel, Spike, Dawn, Joyce, etc. But Buffy is and was very self possessed. I'm curious as to what is behind the argument.
              I think controlling her life in a not so good way. I think by that, those fans mean that Xander and Willow disapprove of things Buffy like and force on her things she dislikes, and therefore they are controlling her. I disagree with that statement, but I've seen it said so many times that I liked to make sure I'm not insane in disagreeing.
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              • #8
                I'd actually go as far as saying that Buffy inspires to be more like Willow and Xander rather than them trying to have an influence on her. Buffy wants to be close to them, she sought them out, they are her ties to the world not because they forced themselves on her but because she let them in. Spike is wrong in a lot of ways when he tells Xander and Willow Buffy is too much of a softy to cut them loose in 'Doomed' but the main one being, he insinuates they follow her around and strive for her attention which is a mistake. Buffy was the aggressor in the relationship, she wanted to be friends with them and they were simply open and enthusiastic to the idea.

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                • #9
                  I'll just add on don't misunderstand me (not saying that any is but...), when I say that Buffy was influenced I merely mean that their being their and feelings influenced Buffy's behaviour and it's the same vice versa, which is true for most people, but of course Buffy makes her own decisions and is the leader lest we forget, but it was more a general point of how the world around us influences us and our decisions.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah I agree, they influenced her as she influenced them. We saw how different and quite frankly unpositive Buffy's character would have been in 'The Wish' without the scoobies. IMO they influenced her in a very good way. They were her link to humanity.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                      Buffy was the aggressor in the relationship, she wanted to be friends with them and they were simply open and enthusiastic to the idea.
                      I don't really agree with that. Xander introduces himself to her in "Welcome to the Hellmouth," to which she isnt sure how to take it. She thanks him for helping pick up her things and takes off. When Willow (re)introduces them, Xander says "Oh, me and Buffy go way back" while Buffy just sits there and smiles. In "Witch" both Xander and Willow include themselves in Buffy's slayage. She efforts to tell them not to but they reply saying they're her sidekicks (whether she likes it or not.)
                      If anything, Xander and Willow were the aggressors in their relationship.

                      But personally, I don't find any of them to have "aggressed." They were just three different people who crossed paths and decided "hey, let's walk on this together."
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                      • #12
                        the only one that buffy seemed to really want to have a friendship with was willow. xander just kind of kept popping up, having a crush on her and was willow's friend. buffy felt sorry for willow because of cordelia, and decided that she didn't want to join cordelia--she had a chance to relate to an outcast. willow was the first person she wanted to befriend. cordelia was the first that tried to become her friend that she seriously considered (she didn't really pay xander any mind).

                        buffy wasn't particularly fond of xander and jesse when she was first introduced to them. she was actually pretty worried that too many people were learning things about her.

                        xander just got mixed up in buffy trying to save willow at the bronze--and then buffy later ended up realizing that jesse also got snatched. xander came along because he was friends with willow and jesse. buffy only cared about xander, at first, through willow.
                        Last edited by NileQT87; 18-12-07, 01:32 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Buffy was annoyed that "everyone in this town (knew) she was the Slayer", but I don't know where the idea that she didn't like Xander and Jesse is coming from. Oddly enough, the only person she didn't appear to like from jump was Angel.

                          buffy only cared about xander, at first, through willow.
                          "I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text." -- Oz, "Dopplegangland". I mean... she did *meet* Xander first, after all. Liked him just fine. Didn't even know that he and Willow were acquainted until her *second* scene with Willow, asking for homework help.
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                          • #14
                            she was kind of surprised when her chat with willow was kind of taken over by xander and jesse coming in. her reaction to xander during the first meeting was being just busily picking up her stakes. she really wasn't paying attention to who she had bumped into. so much so, she left one of her stakes.

                            the first person who introduced themselves that buffy actually intended to make friends with possibly, was cordelia. but then she didn't like that cordy was being mean to willow.

                            as for angel, her words to giles about him was that he was: "This... guy. Dark, gorgeous in an annoying sort of way. I figured you two were buds."

                            basically, she thought angel reminded her of giles or someone giles would be friends with (goal-oriented, focused on duty rather than her being a teen-thing), but dark and gorgeous... in an annoying sort of way. she was immediately attracted to him physically... but found him annoying (likely the giles-like dutifulness and playful, cryptic snark). remember, angel had a tendency to be her secondary giles, telling her the same things giles had just told her, when she just wanted to be left alone in her teenagerdom.

                            "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                            "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                            • #15
                              She may have been surprised. They were a rather gregarious pair of guys, after all, but I don't think she found them off-putting.

                              Actually, as much as I think it's genuine to say that Buffy didn't *ever* think of her friends as tag-alongs or wannabes of some kind, she did try to keep them out of her life as the Slayer in "The Harvest", and again in "The Witch", but after that, the idea of them not being a part of the team was never raised again.
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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Weredog View Post
                                In "Witch" both Xander and Willow include themselves in Buffy's slayage. She efforts to tell them not to but they reply saying they're her sidekicks (whether she likes it or not.)
                                If anything, Xander and Willow were the aggressors in their relationship.
                                Buffy wanting to keep them out of harms way doesn't mean she didn't want a relationship with them. And as others have pointed out, she came to Willow, not the other way around and came to her again in the Bronze.

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                                • #17
                                  I agree with all of your points. I don?t think they influenced her, Buffy is a very strong and determined person. The only thing Xander did was disapproving Angel but that didn?t stop Buffy from dating him. And besides, Buffy made the first move when it came to be friends with Willow and Xander.

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                                  • #18
                                    Even if one wants to argue that in Season 1, Willow and Xander forced themselves on her*, it's moot. In Season 2 and Season 3 both, Buffy had a perfect out, a chance to walk away from those friendships at the start of each season. Not only did she refuse to do so, she was the active party in restoring the breach.

                                    *Certainly Willow and Xander didn't view friendship with Buffy as something they were pushing on her. In "The Pack", hyena-possessed Xander played on Willow's own subconscious resentment of Buffy breaking up the Willow-Xander dynamic, and the physical danger that goes along with being friends with the Slayer. Clearly, Willow at least, and to some degree Xander as well, thought of being friends with Buffy as something that required effort on their part, not just as a way of socializing up, or something.
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                                    • #19
                                      I would have to say that Xander and Willow were not controlling Buffy's life. Buffy is her own person and Im a strong believer in free will. Buffy had her free will its just Xander and Willow especially Xander always had their opinion about her life as friends always do. I think that Xnader some times came off a ass and not understanding. But did they control her life? I would have to say no on this topic.
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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                                        Buffy wanting to keep them out of harms way doesn't mean she didn't want a relationship with them. And as others have pointed out, she came to Willow, not the other way around and came to her again in the Bronze.
                                        She approached Willow cause she felt horrible for what Cordelia did her to her publicly. I honestly don't know how that can be considered being aggressive towards Willow for a friendship. Elaborate?
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