Angelus and his Acathala plan.

[Nina]

When I watched season 2, I never understood why Angelus wanted to destroy the world. Angelus is known for his love for art and culture. He is an aristocratic vampire and he usually isn't the person for the big end-of-the-world thing. He is more into the little subtle torture. I could understand Spike's view, why destroy humanity ... it's your food. The chance that Angelus was in charge in hell isn't big either. And we all know how he loves his power. Let's not start about his love for the nice clothes, a soft bed and good books.

Besides that, why stopping the 'really fun' torturing of Buffy? He was breaking her, he could still hurt her, she still feared him. Why pushing her to kill him? He could of known that destroying the world was the only thing what could make Buffy kill him. She was still not ready to hunt him down, why make her?

So what happened?
Was it some kind of 'I'm the most evil vampire ever!' thing? Just for fun ...
Was he losing control over Buffy or over himself? or both ...
Was it a way to prove he was still the big evil boss?
Or something else ...

[kana]

I've often wondered this. Some theories say it's because he wants to torment Buffy in the worst way. His pathological desire for her pain began to override all reason. It was like a clensing of sorts, trying to find purity in evil after his 'violation'.

[KingofCretins]

Angelus, for all his cruelty and psychological trickery, was basically an arrogant sort of wank. He is totally egotistical enough to take the appearance of Acathla right in his lap as sign enough in itself that it is destined purpose to destroy the whole world. He's a real 'climb a mountain because it's there' guy.

[tangent]

It does seem to be a liittle out of character doesn't it.

i think there is an element of the theory Kana puts forth to the whole deal a sort of twisted act of contrition for alowing himself to be corrupted that way.

Perhaps thought their could have been something else there some part of him that after his brush with love in IOHEFY wanted to end things with Buffy in a very definite way. He could torture Buffy for all eternity but she will always have this power over him somewhere, deep down inside him so i think sending both her and himself to hell could be just the solution, especially as it presents itself in such a serendipitous way. And lets face it if Angelus is going down he's gonna take the whole world with him.

[Mabus]

Myself, I think Angelus is one for the grand gesture. Yes, he's happy to gradually break down Buffy psychologically with a lot of little tortures, but his ultimate goal is to destroy her, completely.

I think Angelus is caught in a sort of trap re: philosophical evil. Most good things are good, in some sense, because they're useful. Think Spike and the "walking happy meals". Spike doesn't mind using humans, but he doesn't want to use them up. Angelus resents good things for being good, and in the process ends up cutting off his nose to spite his face. He hates the world because people can enjoy it, and never mind that destroying it will ruin his own enjoyment too.

[kana]

Myself, I think Angelus is one for the grand gesture. Yes, he's happy to gradually break down Buffy psychologically with a lot of little tortures, but his ultimate goal is to destroy her, completely.

I think Angelus is caught in a sort of trap re: philosophical evil. Most good things are good, in some sense, because they're useful. Think Spike and the "walking happy meals". Spike doesn't mind using humans, but he doesn't want to use them up. Angelus resents good things for being good, and in the process ends up cutting off his nose to spite his face. He hates the world because people can enjoy it, and never mind that destroying it will ruin his own enjoyment too.

Absolutely. I think people sometimes forget that like Angel, Angelus can change. He was influenced by his feelings for Buffy. In his younger days, his attitude about the world wasn't so far removed from Spike's but the memory of his feelings for the slayer brought nothing but acrimony to the dark heart of this demon. His darkness was illuminated, his purity was marred. Hell would be a respite.

And definitely, Spike was ever more the pragmatist.

[Vampire in Rug]

Well, unleashing hell on earth would make every single person on the planet suffer horribly. It would be the ultimate act of evil. Like others have said, Angelus is a grad gesture kinda guy, and his feelings for Buffy have tainted him, so when it comes to her, he's not exactly thinking straight.

[Shin]

I think it's a combination of things:

1. He wants to do some great thing. Something grand to be even more admired by demons and vampires all over, well, hell then.

2. It's a scream for more attention from Buffy. He wants to turn it up a notch, to get all of Buffy's attention and maybe kill her after that.

3. He just likes the idea of hell on earth.

[vampmogs]

I'm not really sure why it appealed to him, could it be some other influence? After all Angelus' or Angel's blood was the key to awakening Acathla, there was something special going on there. I'm not sure what, but I'd go as far as saying he was destined to do it.

[Vampire in Rug]

I agree he was destined to do it. Whistler said that there was some prophecy involving Angel and Acathler, and initally, Whistler thought that meant that Angel would stop Acathla. I guess he was sort of right, as Angel's blood was the key to stopping it. Acathla and Angel were destined to cross paths, but the how and why were kinda murky. Just like how the Master was destined to kill Buffy.

[vampmogs]

I agree he was destined to do it. Whistler said that there was some prophecy involving Angel and Acathler, and initally, Whistler thought that meant that Angel would stop Acathla. I guess he was sort of right, as Angel's blood was the key to stopping it. Acathla and Angel were destined to cross paths, but the how and why were kinda murky. Just like how the Master was destined to kill Buffy.

I agree. Whistler also says they never saw Buffy coming. Which is a little odd because Whistler was the one that sent Angel to Buffy for inspiration and to help her. I guess he didn't expect for them to fall in love like they did which ended up bringing Angelus. Either way Angel's blood was the key to Acathla, to opening it or closing it. Angelus and Angel, wether you view them as the same person or don't, have the same blood. So yeah, I reckon he was destined to do this.

[Shin]

I agree. Whistler also says they never saw Buffy coming. Which is a little odd because Whistler was the one that sent Angel to Buffy for inspiration and to help her. I guess he didn't expect for them to fall in love like they did which ended up bringing Angelus. Either way Angel's blood was the key to Acathla, to opening it or closing it. Angelus and Angel, wether you view them as the same person or don't, have the same blood. So yeah, I reckon he was destined to do this.

Still, if he was destined to it, it still doesn't totally explain why Angelus did it. What we've seen from most Buffyverse destinies is that the character's destinies mostly seem to correspond what that character would logically do because of who he/she is.

[kana]

Agree with the above. We could explain almost any character decision with destiny as indirectly all actions great and small lead to what "you're going to do"

[vampmogs]

IMO, it fits alright with his character. Angel likes to torment his victims, he makes it personal with his favourites. But he also likes a good massacre as well, he isn't against the idea. Sending the whole world to hell is one big way of tormenting everyone and pretty much demonstrates his dislike for the human race. I could see him wanting to do it.

[Shin]

IMO, it fits alright with his character. Angel likes to torment his victims, he makes it personal with his favourites. But he also likes a good massacre as well, he isn't against the idea. Sending the whole world to hell is one big way of tormenting everyone and pretty much demonstrates his dislike for the human race. I could see him wanting to do it.

Yeah, that's true. The problem with this is mostly that he was still busy with tormenting Buffy. It seemed so sudden.

[vampmogs]

Yeah, that's true. The problem with this is mostly that he was still busy with tormenting Buffy. It seemed so sudden.

I guess that is just because the opportunity presented himself. He read it in the newspaper as did Dru, hee! And then kind of set to work with it. Remember though that he still did seem to have a little interest in Buffy, even if it was a trap to lure her away from the library and friends. I believed him when he said he wanted to say goodbye first, he wanted to see her before he basically killed her along with the world.

I never had really considered it but it is actually a pretty popular opinion that Angelus may have actually even been in love with Buffy, we know he was infatuated with her but I never really thought about it until recently.

[Nina]

I never had really considered it but it is actually a pretty popular opinion that Angelus may have actually even been in love with Buffy, we know he was infatuated with her but I never really thought about it until recently.

I have thought about that, but is 'love' not something human? And the Judge told us that Angelus is free of any kind of humanity?
But the cheek stroking when Buffy was sleeping (Passion?) was a really weird thing to do for a vampire who is disgusted by the idea to touch/kiss Buffy. And his really weird behavior after the kiss in IOHYFY, the washing was childish IMO, he kissed her before in 'Innocence'. It confuses me, because I already thought about his feelings for her, and that those feelings were the reason to destroy the world.

[Shin]

I have thought about that, but is 'love' not something human? And the Judge told us that Angelus is free of any kind of humanity?
But the cheek stroking when Buffy was sleeping (Passion?) was a really weird thing to do for a vampire who is disgusted by the idea to touch/kiss Buffy. And his really weird behavior after the kiss in IOHYFY, the washing was childish IMO, he kissed her before in 'Innocence'. It confuses me, because I already thought about his feelings for her, and that those feelings were the reason to destroy the world.

I used to think that he kind of love her. But when you think of the Judge that does indeed make no sense. Maybe in his mind he thought he loved her, because of his memories as Angel?

[Nina]

I used to think that he kind of love her. But when you think of the Judge that does indeed make no sense. Maybe in his mind he thought he loved her, because of his memories as Angel?

Yeah, or the 'love' feelings came after a few weeks? I don't know if that make any sense. Maybe it was just lust?

[Mabus]

Yeah, or the 'love' feelings came after a few weeks? I don't know if that make any sense. Maybe it was just lust?

We've seen that vampire "love" is twisted even when it's powerful. We've also seen that Angelus is especially sadistic even for a vampire. I can imagine, just possibly, that he might have loved Buffy in the way Knox loved Fred (without the geekiness), though personally I don't really believe he did. While one might consider that love of a sort, it's twisted well out of the human norm (Knox is just a freak).