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  • Would things have changed?

    If Giles didn't leave in S6, would things changed with the Scooby gang?

    I've made a video about this issue awhile back, and I shamelessly pimp it for all of you to watch. (Yup, an armature vidder starving for feedback), so here's Standing.

    But I thought it was an interesting topic to talk about. I think Giles would have been a great help with the Trio issue, he simply had no life, and would be able to search, find and get rid of them better than the others who were drowning in their own issues.

    Giles would have perhaps changed a little of the Buffy and Willow storylines. Buffy's relationship with Spike would have been different, Willow's abuse of magic might have gone differently. What do you guys say?
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  • #2
    Before Giles left, the lives of the trio were going downhill. Buffy was already turning to Spike and Willow already used too much magic. I don't know what happened in the first episodes of season 6, everything went wrong and Giles knew that, and still he left. Ofcourse there would be a difference if he stayed, but not much.

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    • #3
      I definitely think they would have changed. First off the whole entire Spuffy relationship more than likely would not have been. Remember what Giles was like when he found out Spike was infatuated with Buffy in Season 5. He turned all father figure and threatened Spike. I'm sorry I can't remember the episode, I'm pretty sure it was after Crush though.

      I'm not sure if the Willow arc would've been gone. Willow was always sneaking around reading all of Giles' books when they were still in highschool without Giles knowing. I think Willow would have been still abusing magic away from everyone else and that the whole Dark Willow arc would've remained. However I don't see Season 6 being as dark as it was if Giles was still there. The scoobies needed to grow up and him being gone made them do that. For better or worse.
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      • #4
        First...I gotta say this song always gets mixed up when I try to remember it. "...but you just lie there when you should be standing still..." is at least funny. "Wish I could lay your arms down and let you rest in peace at last," is just creepy.... Great vid, though, all the same.

        What you say about Giles having no life...I'm not sure that would have remained the same if he stayed. I think he'd have had to find a reason for remaining, and that would affect the amount of time he had to help the Scoobies with the Trio.

        I think the Dark Willow arc would have changed. That's a road Giles has gone down himself, and while it's clear he's been letting Willow get away with things for some time, it looks to me as if Buffy's resurrection was an eye-opener for him.

        I think the greatest change would have been in the incident you have in the video but didn't bring up in your post, where Xander leaves Anya at the altar. I really think Giles would have been present for the wedding, and talked him through that. Guys always get cold feet, after all.

        As for Spuffy...I really don't think that would have changed much. If anything, Giles might have inadvertently made matters worse. By this time, it's already been over a year since "Buffy vs. Dracula", in which she asked him to help her look into the origin of her powers. I presume the reason that wasn't dealt with much was the disruption caused by Dawn and Glory, in which case he might finally have gotten around to it. In fact, it's the most likely reason I can come up with him to stay for, if the Scoobies' problems weren't enough. Now picture Giles looking into the matter in a milieu in which Buffy is freaking about possibly having come back wrong, and discovering that yes, the Slayer is indeed part demon...Can you say "throws herself into the arms of the evil soulless vampire"? Imagine if Tara had told her that: "Yes, you're part demon. But it's okay." (My assumption has always been that the Slayer's demonic side is very diluted or a very unusual type; otherwise Tara should have recognized it.) I think Giles would be displeased with the result, but I don't think he could have prevented it.
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        • #5
          I think if Giles had been there, he'd have kept leaning on Buffy, reaching out to her, to get her to open up. Like those little gestures like reaching for her hand. And he'd have gotten through. And if anyone had gotten through to Buffy and gotten her to access her emotions, the single purpose for her getting involved with Spike would have been removed.

          Ergo, no Spuffy, or very little, depending on when Giles was able to get to her.

          With Willow... he would have driven the intervention angle in a way that her best friends couldn't. There would have been ugliness and pain, but I think she'd have been better off. There's only DarkWillow if Tara gets killed. Which I couldn't assume she would have.

          Xander would either have A) talked to Giles at some point about his doubts and put off the wedding at a more reasonable time, or B) felt implicit paternal pressure from Giles and gone ahead and married Anya over his own fears.

          Basically, Giles had to be otherwhere for the Season 6 plot to advance. It's like Cordelia in that key juncture of Angel Season 3 -- if she were around, none of the ridiculous crap could have gone down because she'd have been putting out fires too fast. Giles has the same type of effect on the Scoobies.
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          • #6
            I think that if Giles hadn't have left then the show wouldn't have changed that much from the previous 5 seasons because Buffy would have just been even more dependant on Giles considering where she had spent the previous summer and having been pulled out of there, I don't think anyone could have been bothered to deal if they hadn't had to. Also, in regards to the character of Buffy, I think she wouldn't have began working at the DoubleMeat Palace or started her relationship with Spike. In Smashed she tells Spike how she only made out with him because Giles left and she felt vulnerable and ultimately this led to their relationship and also his attempted rape of her and Giles may have been able to support her financially so she wouldn't have needed the job.
            I don't think Dawn would have felt as lonely as she did, which led to her becoming a kleptomaniac because Giles would have been able to have given her attention she needed.
            I think Willow's magic issue would have been resolved from the beginning though because Giles would have been able to detect a problem when she first started on the rocky path and would have been able to go "all Dumbledore" on her from then instead of having it get that bad.
            I think that Anya and Xander may not have ended up the way they did either because if Giles had still been working at the Magic Box Anya could have had more time off and possibly got talking about the issues she and Xander were unwilling to discuss.
            I think Giles was actually the backbone of the Scooby Gang and when he left, although everything was going downhill anyway, he would have been able to prevent the most of it.
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            • #7
              Yeah Giles would have changed a hell of a lot of things in season six.

              I agree with those saying Spuffy wouldn't have happened. I actually believe Buffy when she says in 'Smashed' that she was thinking about Giles when kissing Spike at the end of 'Tabula Rasa.' She was depressed 'ergo bad kissing decisions.' If Giles stuck around Buffy wouldn't have had such a hard time and it wouldn't have happened.

              I don't think Willow would have ever gotten involved with Rack if Giles had been around either. Willow felt Giles watching her magic use, evident in 'Flooded' and then realises both he and Tara were concerned in 'Al the Way.' I'm not sure she'd have gotten so involved in the magics.

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