Father and Daughter

[KingofCretins]

I thought this deserved its own thread, something Nostalgia said in the "defense of Season 8" thread.

Why do you guys think that is? Why would Buffy and Giles still be bitter with each other even after Buffy's plan.. it was evident in Chosen that they weren't at a good point.. nowhere where they were in "Bring On The Night." Will there ever be that father-daughter relationship again? .. I feel really bad now. Only a year after smiling and laughing about how much they needed each other are they at opposite ends.

I don't know if they ever really get back to where they were in "Bring on the Night". And, the fact of it makes me even more annoyed by the decision to play a Giles-is-the-first tease in those episodes, because, we need to see them hugging in that stretch.

Buffy and Giles had reached d'etante in "Chosen", with the reconciliation being in the "bloody brilliant" and "communication skills" lines, but right now we're sitting on a complete lack of textual evidence that they ever really got closer than that since.

And now, in Season 8, we've got Buffy thinking of Giles as someone you call like directory assistance, not someone you really even worry about seeing on a regular basis. Except now that it's time for Giles to get called on the carpet.

You know, Giles once told Buffy "you have no respect for me, or the job I perform" -- now it feels like Buffy means to give basically the same kind of admonishment. She's become the one in charge, even between her and Giles. That alone presents certain challenges to their relationship. But, really, I don't know if they are ever going to be able to feel like father and daughter again unless they actually start trusting each other's judgment and respecting each other's role in their lives. *Especially* their "professional" roles in each other's lives. Parents can and have "worked for" their kids, like in a family business, which this basically is. So I mostly put it on Giles to be the one who has to adjust his behavior in order to get that relationship back.

[Nostalgia]

I sure hope so.. I think it's kind of sad to see how they went from that speech that he delivered to her not too while back about her being the cause of his retirement and him feeling complete because he knows he got his job done. I love Giles, but I certainly loved Giles more. He's definitely going to change his ways in order for me to start enjoying him again. The funny thing was that he preached about wanting her to grow up and make her own decisions.. but he was ragging on her about getting too close to Spike. He also questions her authority COMPLETELY after on past Dirty Girls.. as if what, she hadn't made a good decision before? This one decision outweighs everything? There was never a true bracing moment for anyone in the core.. we were just told to accept that things went back to normal (especially with the 'circle' scene..). Giles in particular though.. I never accepted "really do.." as a final answer. I knew that deep down inside they still were at opposite ends.. and it's most certainly seen in season 8.

I'm not sure if they ever will have the father daughter bond that existed in her younger years.. which is sad.. but something we come to appreciate about the earlier seasons. It really hurts me though.. because I was a huge shipper of Buffy/Giles in terms of friendship. This one of the main reasons I love Helpless so gosh darn much. Now with Giles giving his tidbits to Faith, and saluting her for her work.. I just don't understand the need for a recon mission and duping Buffy once again. I hope this certainly is addressed.. because.. wait a second.. have we seen ANY core character speak to Giles?

[KingofCretins]

There was never a true bracing moment for anyone in the core.. we were just told to accept that things went back to normal (especially with the 'circle' scene..). Giles in particular though.. I never accepted "really do.." as a final answer. I knew that deep down inside they still were at opposite ends.. and it's most certainly seen in season 8.

I don't remember what "really do..." refers to, but I actually accepted their reconciliation in Season 7. Or, as I referred to it, d'etante. Buffy was, after all, making mistakes in their dynamic as well. She *was* acting unreasonably to the others about Spike in her completely lack of splainy about what her reasoning was for keeping him alive, let alone nearby. But, on Giles part, that didn't excuse mutiny. Which is exactly what I'd characterize what he (and Wood) did in "Lies My Parents Told Me". By the time they go into battle in "Chosen" they seem to have a mutual understanding of each other's bad choices.

I'm not sure if they ever will have the father daughter bond that existed in her younger years.. which is sad.. but something we come to appreciate about the earlier seasons. It really hurts me though.. because I was a huge shipper of Buffy/Giles in terms of friendship. This one of the main reasons I love Helpless so gosh darn much. Now with Giles giving his tidbits to Faith, and saluting her for her work.. I just don't understand the need for a recon mission and duping Buffy once again. I hope this certainly is addressed.. because.. wait a second.. have we seen ANY core character speak to Giles?

It's important to remember... it's not a recon mission that he's sent Faith on. Recon is incidental. Giles' intentions are very clear -- Faith's mission is murder. And, it could be that he very paternally doesn't think he can ask Buffy to do that. But, as a *subordinate*, because, dangit, that's what he is now, he is once again out of line to go out on his own with this kind of plan, *especially* if he had any idea that Genevieve was a direct threat to Buffy.

No, none of the other core characters have directly interacted with Giles while we were watching, but in 8.01, Xander sent him the Twilight symbol at Buffy's request (but that could have been an email for all we know). When we next hear of it in 8.06, Xander mentions that Giles has been out of contact for weeks.